Bad R.I. I'm in need of help

Ok so for two months now I've been battling this ri that is affecting my ball pythons I've taken them to the vet gotten cultures and now I'm used 3 antibiotics with these things first it was baytril, trimethel sulfate, then gentimycin. All of which tested positive on killing this thing but is not working on my babies. So I'll give you guys a little more info and see if anyone has any advice so they are all kept on aspen that is changed twice weekly they are kept in a rack made of PVC and in sterilite tubs the tubs and rack are disinfected twice weekly with chlorhexidine temps are mid 90s water is changed daily dishes are cleaned with chlorhexidine twice weekly humidity is around the 50% range. Any help would be great the vet wants me to use a 4th antibiotic and I didn't even want to use 3 I cannot remember the name of bacterial ri they have but any ideas please

The first question is, are you positive it's a bacterial RI, and not viral? Is the vet sure?

It sounds as though you're doing everything you should be. I would switch to using bleach for disinfecting until it's gone. Chlorhex is good, but it doesn't kill everything. Bleach kills more things.

He says it's bacterial what breakdown of bleach would you recommend

A 10% solution left on for 5 minutes, and then rinsed REALLY well, until no bleach odor remains.

How good is your vet?

The bacterial strains that cause RIs in snakes are flora that are already present in the snake's system. In other words, if the vet is less than familiar with snakes, he may be targeting normal bacterial flora. Plus, all your snakes have this - correct?

After three rounds of antibiotics - all of which were selected due to cultures - I would suspect something other than bacterial.

Again, how good is your vet?

check out the link below. a lot of exotic vets will consult with this vet. Mine does. hope this helps you a little. don

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/reptile...ile-veterinary

That is really odd. After cultures usually the antibiotics take hold in a few weeks. How long has it been? How are the drugs being given and what intervals? Many people (vets included) forget reptiles have very slow metabolisms and that a cycle that works on mammals often is too short to do anything. When I an told to use antibiotics by my vet we usually have 4 weeks cycles to 10 week ones. I wonder if it simply isn't long enough to have done anything? Guessing here.

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Do you have adequate ventilation? It is possible that they are re infecting if the inside enclosures have high concentrations. Bleach, steam, or F10 kill a wide variety of nasty things be careful with the bleach no smell it is very toxic to snakes too. (don't steam your snake either! LOL)

They have been on gentimycin for 32 days and it seemed to work for one of my albino females but my pied male butter male and other albino female have not mad a single improvement and are now showing signs of irritation when meds are given as to ventilation there tubs are well ventilated and they have been getting cleaned with chlorhexidine but I will be switching it up to something a little stronger

The baytril trimethyl sulfate have been given through injections however due to the fact that the gentamicin is so strong my doctor has me giving it in a nebulizer mixed with saline solution .75cc med to 1 cc saline every other day

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

How good is your vet?

The bacterial strains that cause RIs in snakes are flora that are already present in the snake's system. In other words, if the vet is less than familiar with snakes, he may be targeting normal bacterial flora. Plus, all your snakes have this - correct?

After three rounds of antibiotics - all of which were selected due to cultures - I would suspect something other than bacterial.

Again, how good is your vet?

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The vet is good and no it's not affecting all my snakes only about 7 of my ball pythons I have 26 that are fine and none of my Burms, retics, bloods, colubrids or boas have any symptoms and are feeding fine and the 7 that are I'll are from 3 different racks so viral and fungal are next to impossible

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Originally Posted by Fangmereptiles

The vet is good and no it's not affecting all my snakes only about 7 of my ball pythons I have 26 that are fine and none of my Burms, retics, bloods, colubrids or boas have any symptoms and are feeding fine and the 7 that are I'll are from 3 different racks so viral and fungal are next to impossible

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Ask your vet why - even though you have been on three full rounds of targeted antibiotics - some of your snakes are still sick.

If it's a bacterial infection and it was properly cultured, there is no reason why it should be able to survive three rounds of antibiotics that it was cultured sensitive to.

Viral infections can travel from rack to rack. Some people's entire collections have been wiped out by a viral infection, regardless of whether or not they were in the same rack or in another room.

The reason I was saying It couldnt be viral is because these snake are the only ones that were infected for that reason I doubt it is a virus. plus wouldn't that have hown on blood work?

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Originally Posted by Fangmereptiles

The reason I was saying It couldnt be viral is because these snake are the only ones that were infected for that reason I doubt it is a virus. plus wouldn't that have hown on blood work?

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Depends. What blood work did he perform?

Viruses require targeted tests. Did your vet suspect a virus and test for one?

Secondly, some animals can be infected but may be asymptomatic.

If you had faith in the course your vet was taking, you would not be posting here - correct? Entertain the idea that a duck walks, quacks and craps like a duck.

A bacteria infection, once cultured as sensitive to an antibiotic, goes away with proper treatment. For it to have overcome not one, but three antibiotics it is susceptible to is very improbable.

So your duck is not a duck. Either the culture was improperly taken or this is not a bacterial infection, or this is the most unique and amazing of all ducks.

Now you can continue to make excuses for your vet, or you can ask him some hard questions - after all, I'm sure he is not doing this for free - right?

1) Ask to see the result of the tracheal flush? The susceptibility and bacteria type should be on that report.
2) Ask him what virus(es) he suspected and what tests he ran to rule them out. Make him show you the results of the blood work, including his orders to the diagnostic lab.

If he balks or gets defensive - find another vet.

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Originally Posted by don15681

check out the link below. a lot of exotic vets will consult with this vet. Mine does. hope this helps you a little. don

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/reptile...ile-veterinary

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Depends. What blood work did he perform?

Viruses require targeted tests. Did your vet suspect a virus and test for one?

Secondly, some animals can be infected but may be asymptomatic.

If you had faith in the course your vet was taking, you would not be posting here - correct? Entertain the idea that a duck walks, quacks and craps like a duck.

A bacteria infection, once cultured as sensitive to an antibiotic, goes away with proper treatment. For it to have overcome not one, but three antibiotics it is susceptible to is very improbable.

So your duck is not a duck. Either the culture was improperly taken or this is not a bacterial infection, or this is the most unique and amazing of all ducks.

Now you can continue to make excuses for your vet, or you can ask him some hard questions - after all, I'm sure he is not doing this for free - right?

1) Ask to see the result of the tracheal flush? The susceptibility and bacteria type should be on that report.
2) Ask him what virus(es) he suspected and what tests he ran to rule them out. Make him show you the results of the blood work, including his orders to the diagnostic lab.

If he balks or gets defensive - find another vet.

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Trust me I'm not making excuses and i keep asking him if theres a possibilty hes not catching something but he has done everything he can 3 different cultures after each antibiotic course. the baytril and trimethel sulfate he only ran for two weeks each the gentimycin for a full month and after the first antibiotic didn't fix it he hasn't charged me for anything and every time it's showing the same bacteria. I came here asking for advice seeing if anyone had a similar situation and I do appreciate your input. I'm afraid it may be the water here which is why I have stopped giving them water from my house and am now buying jugs of water every day

ok, I gave you that link to listen to. I'm not saying you or your vet is doing something wrong. I'm not saying that you think i'm saying that either. lets try and figure out something to try. when dr stahl talks on that link. he states that

some cultures are done wrong.
meds are not giving long enough, but you should still see improvement
sometimes using more than one med at the same time is needed.

I figure if you listen to this, something might pop up on something miss or something you might want to try.
he's strickly exotics, and is well known. he gets reptiles shipped to him for treatment. my point is he seen a lot, and after trying everything you have, calling him might be your best option.

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Originally Posted by Fangmereptiles

Trust me I'm not making excuses and i keep asking him if theres a possibilty hes not catching something but he has done everything he can 3 different cultures after each antibiotic course. the baytril and trimethel sulfate he only ran for two weeks each the gentimycin for a full month and after the first antibiotic didn't fix it he hasn't charged me for anything and every time it's showing the same bacteria. I came here asking for advice seeing if anyone had a similar situation and I do appreciate your input. I'm afraid it may be the water here which is why I have stopped giving them water from my house and am now buying jugs of water every day

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What bacteria is it showing?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by don15681

ok, I gave you that link to listen to. I'm not saying you or your vet is doing something wrong. I'm not saying that you think i'm saying that either. lets try and figure out something to try. when dr stahl talks on that link. he states that

some cultures are done wrong.
meds are not giving long enough, but you should still see improvement
sometimes using more than one med at the same time is needed.

I figure if you listen to this, something might pop up on something miss or something you might want to try.
he's strickly exotics, and is well known. he gets reptiles shipped to him for treatment. my point is he seen a lot, and after trying everything you have, calling him might be your best option.

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I listened to the link this morning it is very helpful and it has some things I am going to reccomend to my vet when I talk to him when he gets back from vacation on the 5th I think that the cultures were prematurely diagnosed if anything but thank you for that link it was awesome listening

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I don't remember exactly what kind but it is a pseudomonas bacteria