Citrus, Lemon, regular Pastel.

Ok so i was hoping maybe someone can shine some light on how to distinguish these three. I know Citrus are really bright and have that intense blushing, but i have seen some baby pastels with some blushing. Please help! Lol im curious!

As am I! lol. I think the difference between a lemon pastel and a pastel is just a slight variation in the pattern? I cant be positive so any help would be greatly appreciated by me too! would someone else care to educate me and robert? :)

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Originally Posted by Andybill

As am I! lol. I think the difference between a lemon pastel and a pastel is just a slight variation in the pattern? I cant be positive so any help would be greatly appreciated by me too! would someone else care to educate me and robert? :)

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Lol yes please! My friend actually bought a super bright pastel for $100 an ended up being a Citrus can this happen and if it can why couldn't it have happened to me!!!??

unless you buy the pastel directly from the breeder who started the line there is almost no way to tell for sure...

Lemon Pastels have little to no blushing, extreme colors, and a slight pattern on the upper neck that can be used to distinguish them. started by NERD

besides that it is nearly impossible to tell...

lines of pastel really don't matter at all... there are good lemon pastels and terrible lemon pastels... same goes for all of the other lines. What is important is that you get one that looks good and you like. keep in mind that orange turns to brown so try to get one that has as little orange as possible.

Here is my little pastel female... she doesn't have any orange on her at all

Hatchling:

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...a/IMG_0002.jpg

Current (about 650 grams)

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...a/324785d0.jpg

The names are used to describe selectively bred lines of pastels produced by certain breeders. The confusion stems from the fact that once such an animal leaves the original breeder's hands, the new owner begins breeding it to whatever, and then calls the resulting offspring by the name of their parent--when it absolutely is not.

It only takes one careless breeding to undo all of that careful, selective breeding!

Now, if the new owner is extremely careful in their pairings, they may preserve the look of the line, and the offspring may deserve to retain that name, but otherwise? Nope.

Lemon pastels: Very high yellow, and high contrast, often black, markings, with no real blushing.
Graziani: Extreme blushing, but generally not very high yellow.
Citrus: Combining high blushing with very high yellow.

Normal: Any combination of the above traits, but not generally to any tremendous extremes.

So, if someone is selling hatchling 'lemon pastels', and they're not superbly high yellow with bold, contrasting black...they're not lemon, they were just sired by an animal that may have had one in its lineage. When shopping for hatchling pastels, remember that orange generally becomes brown in adults, so lots of orange is a sign of an animal that will brown out. It all depends on what sort of look you want to bring into your breeding projects.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

Current (about 650 grams)

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...a/324785d0.jpg

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I want... :bow:

^ yeah me too! ^

Like Aaron said, you have to buy from the breeder that produced it. The "regular" Pastels tend to brown out more with age. Lemons and Citrus tend to have higher amounts of yellow. There is also the Graziani line Pastel, which usually has a lot of overall blushing. Same is true with Bell line. Then theres the Blonde Pastel which is what I have. They also have higher amounts of yellow and don't brown out as much. Of course there are always exceptions! lines and types of Pastels may look different, and some may not fall into their category of "this is what such and such Pastel looks like".
http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/...0/100_2540.jpg
http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/...ick90/0017.jpg

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Originally Posted by h00blah

I want... :bow:

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best part is that she is 100% het for Clown!

Now I just need a male fire 100% het clown and/or a male Mojave 100% het clown to put her with

You cannot label your Pastel something that it is not, even if it has similar characteristics. So unless the breeder your friend got their "Citrus" from told them it was a Citrus, I wouldn't label it as such even though it may look like one. I have seen quite a few Citrus Pastels in person and not all of them are crazy high yellow. I've owned Pastel's prettier than a lot of the Citrus' I've seen. Don't get me wrong if I could afford one, I'd hop all over a nice example of a Citrus Pastel, because the combos they make are insane. But not every Citrus hatchling is perfect.

Ok so like i though, VERY confusing lol im happy with my little guy :)

http://img.tapatalk.com/a6937b20-2262-3680.jpg

The whole pastel line thing is pretty crazy. The way i look at it is once a (lemon) is bred to a non lemon none of them are lemon pastel.

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Originally Posted by bman123

The whole pastel line thing is pretty crazy. The way i look at it is once a (lemon) is bred to a non lemon none of them are lemon pastel.

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This.

Everyone else covered it pretty good so far, but from my understanding the only pastel that is 'more' than others is the citrus line from Amir. Last I knew it was associated with what he was calling the white-out gene, basically extreme blushing that theoretically could occasionally pop up in any breeding involving a citrus. I haven't kept up on it too much so I'm not sure if that's still the current theory.

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Originally Posted by m00kfu

Everyone else covered it pretty good so far, but from my understanding the only pastel that is 'more' than others is the citrus line from Amir. Last I knew it was associated with what he was calling the white-out gene, basically extreme blushing that theoretically could occasionally pop up in any breeding involving a citrus. I haven't kept up on it too much so I'm not sure if that's still the current theory.

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There is something more with Lemon Pastels as well, for instance you can't make an inferno with out a lemon line pastel...

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

The names are used to describe selectively bred lines of pastels produced by certain breeders. The confusion stems from the fact that once such an animal leaves the original breeder's hands, the new owner begins breeding it to whatever, and then calls the resulting offspring by the name of their parent--when it absolutely is not.

It only takes one careless breeding to undo all of that careful, selective breeding!

Now, if the new owner is extremely careful in their pairings, they may preserve the look of the line, and the offspring may deserve to retain that name, but otherwise? Nope.

Lemon pastels: Very high yellow, and high contrast, often black, markings, with no real blushing.
Graziani: Extreme blushing, but generally not very high yellow.
Citrus: Combining high blushing with very high yellow.

Normal: Any combination of the above traits, but not generally to any tremendous extremes.

So, if someone is selling hatchling 'lemon pastels', and they're not superbly high yellow with bold, contrasting black...they're not lemon, they were just sired by an animal that may have had one in its lineage. When shopping for hatchling pastels, remember that orange generally becomes brown in adults, so lots of orange is a sign of an animal that will brown out. It all depends on what sort of look you want to bring into your breeding projects.

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There ARE lemons that have real blushing. Those are the ones that Kevin started messing with more and discovered the fader gene.

My male is confirmed by Kevin to come from a NERD lemon, and has blushing. He's also seen the babies I've produced and has strongly encouraged me to line breed them, as he believes that mine may also have the fader gene because of the blushing babies that he produces. I acquired my male before Kevin even realized that there was another gene (fader) at play.

Because I'm not 100% certain (until some more line breeding) that mine is fader, I don't advertise my lemons as fader - but they absolutely are selectively bred - as is everything in my collection.

I also don't understand the line of thinking that once the animal leaves NERD that its resulting offspring are not lemons??? Kevin bred his lemons to normals, others breed theirs to normals. What makes his normals different than normals outside of NERD? I do agree that selective breeding needs to be maintained to keep the standard high.

The only one I've ever seen this statement from has been you, and I've always wondered where that came from? Is that your opinion, or have you seen others with the same rigid definition as you?

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Originally Posted by m00kfu

Everyone else covered it pretty good so far, but from my understanding the only pastel that is 'more' than others is the citrus line from Amir. Last I knew it was associated with what he was calling the white-out gene, basically extreme blushing that theoretically could occasionally pop up in any breeding involving a citrus. I haven't kept up on it too much so I'm not sure if that's still the current theory.

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You're right. I buy all my things from Amir's store Pangea Pets and that's where my friend got his Citrus. We plan to breed it to a couple of normals including one of mine to get some SWEET Citrus Pastels :)

I know it's a bad pic but you can see some differences
This is the Citrus from Amir. He is waaaayyy brighter and the white out he has is SICK! *bad pic*

http://img.tapatalk.com/a6937b0f-c1f8-53b9.jpg

I'm a little confused. Are you comparing the 2 snakes in that picture?

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

I'm a little confused. Are you comparing the 2 snakes in that picture?

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No no no lol that's a pic my friend sent me a while back. Im only showing the Citrus Pastel not the Spider. Sorry i should have specified.

Ok, just making sure lol

Thanks for this! I've been wondering about this. I chose my pastel based on his bright yellow and blushing. That's what I wanted in a pastel and that's what I got.

I think you cant really just go off the line when buying either because a certain site has some ugly $300+ pastels on it. Its just a shame because say if i were to selectively breed lemon pastels i would get no where near the price big name people get.

Im not trying to diss anyone but i really think some people are just riding it on the name they built when they can sell ugly pastels for over $300. Like your paying more for the sake of saying my lemon came from here, i can care less who it comes from but then at what point are you just buying a good looking pastel and what its background is will affect your sellibg price.

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Originally Posted by bman123

I think you cant really just go off the line when buying either because a certain site has some ugly $300+ pastels on it. Its just a shame because say if i were to selectively breed lemon pastels i would get no where near the price big name people get.

Im not trying to diss anyone but i really think some people are just riding it on the name they built when they can sell ugly pastels for over $300. Like your paying more for the sake of saying my lemon came from here, i can care less who it comes from but then at what point are you just buying a good looking pastel and what its background is will affect your sellibg price.

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Sure you can. I sell out of my lemons and never even post them. I have a waiting list. Not because they are lemons, but because I selectively breed them, and people know that they're getting Grade A animals.

I delivered two to the Atlanta Repticon show to one of my customers, and we were sitting at a table looking at them, and people stopped and asked my customer - "oh my gawd! Who's selling those? Who's the breeder? I haven't seen anything that nice here at the show!" and he says - "she's sitting right here".

I'm far from a big name, but I get what I ask for, for my pastels, and it's not an average pastel price. I've got more people on this year's waiting list than I'll probably produce.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

There is something more with Lemon Pastels as well, for instance you can't make an inferno with out a lemon line pastel...

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NERD's got the whole fader thing going on with some of their pastels as Robin mentioned already, but beyond that I don't think there's anything extra going on. There's quite a few hidden gene woma combos being produced this year by multiple people, and I would bet that if someone hits on the inferno genes using a non-lemon line pastel it's going to look the same.