List of Morph Issues

I know a few months back it was asked for, but I needed one for something now, so I figured why not post it also since I already have it together. If anyone has anything to add, speak up.

Males throw weird sex ratios?
Whats that mean?
Banana males produce all male or all female clutches?

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Males throw weird sex ratios?
Whats that mean?
Banana males produce all male or all female clutches?

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Somebody has some reading to do......

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Originally Posted by jinx667

Somebody has some reading to do......

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ahhh i see. Too confusing for me to all digest tonite but thats weird. Too bad other morphs didnt tend to throw alot of females lol

EDIT: for the record, no one should ever make the mistake of googling banana sex ratio... big mistake! lol jk jk

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

ahhh i see. Too confusing for me to all digest tonite but thats weird. Too bad other morphs didnt tend to throw alot of females lol

EDIT: for the record, no one should ever make the mistake of googling banana sex ratio... big mistake! lol jk jk

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Put safe search on first. :rofl:

I'm pretty sure MAballs and NERD did a video about it which should be on MAballs youtube channel.

It's a wierd one for sure.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

ahhh i see. Too confusing for me to all digest tonite but thats weird. Too bad other morphs didnt tend to throw alot of females lol

EDIT: for the record, no one should ever make the mistake of googling banana sex ratio... big mistake! lol jk jk

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That is hilarious.

This is the video in fact;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkVEgGqWnmc

Hope this helps.


dr del

Also look on that channel for lethal combos part 1 & 2, where I got most of the list from, just added the couple that wernt mentioned.

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Originally Posted by dr del

This is the video in fact

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That video is classic Kevin being Kevin...:rofl:

Kinking with super cinny/black pastel as well.

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Originally Posted by RobNJ

Kinking with super cinny/black pastel as well.

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I've herd mixed things about this, so wasn't sure if it was an actual issue or just something that happened to a few people. Any info anyone could share would be great.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Males throw weird sex ratios?
Whats that mean?
Banana males produce all male or all female clutches?

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Yeah some males have a super gene that when breed all they produce are males. Not all males but a few.

I've seen a kinked supper cinny at a show, was offered another one in a trade. Here's a thread on super black pastels, and there are quite a few others covering both blacks/cinnies that mention kinking. I would guess that the odds of it being all coincidental are astronomical.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...x-black-pastel

You forgot Woma.
(HG Woma, Woma, and Spider all have a somewhat similar pattern aberration. Whatever causes it, they all wobble).

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Originally Posted by dr del

This is the video in fact;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkVEgGqWnmc

Hope this helps.


dr del

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It's an interesting video, I just wish they both didn't look like kids that just got caught with their hand in the cookie jar. That's the problem with youtube, nobody ever rehearses anything before putting it up for the whole world to see.

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Originally Posted by RobNJ

I've seen a kinked supper cinny at a show, was offered another one in a trade. Here's a thread on super black pastels, and there are quite a few others covering both blacks/cinnies that mention kinking. I would guess that the odds of it being all coincidental are astronomical.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...x-black-pastel

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Thank you

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

You forgot Woma.
(HG Woma, Woma, and Spider all have a somewhat similar pattern aberration. Whatever causes it, they all wobble).

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Never herd anything about standard womas. Just handled 20 some standard womas last weekend and none of them showed anything. Guess I could ask the breeder about them. News to me.

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

Never herd anything about standard womas. Just handled 20 some standard womas last weekend and none of them showed anything. Guess I could ask the breeder about them. News to me.

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http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ht=woma+wobble

... Seems like maybe it's not as prevalent as spiders, but still present.

I don't know that I would call the banana sex ratio a problem or even an "issue" ... I think it's just a really wonky mode of inheritance ;)

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Originally Posted by Serpent_Nirvana

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ht=woma+wobble

... Seems like maybe it's not as prevalent as spiders, but still present.

I don't know that I would call the banana sex ratio a problem or even an "issue" ... I think it's just a really wonky mode of inheritance ;)

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Did some more googling and found enough pictures of kinked super cinnys and a super couple black pastels, where it does seem to happen more than normal with them. After skimming through random threads google pulled up it doesn't seem to happen that often though. So I think I would call it rare but it does happen. If I get a chance I'll try to talk to some people who work with the gene directly. If anyone has more info to share, please enlighten us.

I missed that thread on the womas, no doubt with that many people reporting it.

As for the banana I know when banana males were in short supply, it was no doubt an issue lol. I just wanted a list of all the things that change with certain morphs, besides their color and pattern. Maybe it would more appropriately be called the List of Morph Oddities.

Here's my updated list

Also, champagne sable has more of a wobble than either morph on its own, AFAIK.

Seems that any combination of champ, sable and spider fairs poorly.

I really don't think the Duckbill in super cinnies and super black are an issue, I had one that I produce myself and they really look awesome, its like the humans with their nose or face, not everybody will have the same shape, they are different types of shapes. The duckbill really don't do anything bad to them its just a different type of shape on their faces.

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Originally Posted by Serpent_Nirvana

Also, champagne sable has more of a wobble than either morph on its own, AFAIK.

Seems that any combination of champ, sable and spider fairs poorly.

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Took some time, but heres a quote from someone who produced one

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Now…when you line the two traits up….Champagne and Sable together…. it seems to make the wobble more obvious. Similar to a wobbly Spider…unfortunately ALL of the Saffron display the wobble “gene signature“.

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and then says

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The degree of the wobble is similar to that of a spider.
As I said earlier, if the wobble is present in a baby Champagne…the wobble seems to disappear or diminish as they mature…I have hopes that perhaps the wobble may also diminish as the Saffrons mature.

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so just like you said, together they are similar to the spider, but alone not quite as bad. Also interesting, I didn't know champs tended to out grow it.

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is·sue/ˈiSHo͞o/
Noun:
An important topic or problem for debate or discussion.

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Doesn't mean negative or bad, just to clarify.

Yeah, the thing that fooled me at first with womas, and had me also believing for at least a couple of years that they had no wobble issues, is that hatchling womas almost never wobble. They develop it as they get older, or it's triggered by stress events, so the breeder rarely sees it, unless they have some adult womas with a wobble. By the time a woma starts to wobble, it's usually out of the breeder's hands.
The wobble is also usually more subtle than it is in spiders, though there are some exceptions.

I have never seen any wobble in my breeder male Champagne or Hidden Gene Woma?

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Originally Posted by Amos1974

I have never seen any wobble in my breeder male Champagne or Hidden Gene Woma?

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I've never seen any wobble in my spider, doesn't mean they don't

Interesting, never looked much into womas so didn't know about the wobble, and I did not know champ X spider was lethal either. Learn something new every day. Thank you for posting this.

Thank you for putting this all in one neat list.

What about Albinos having eye deformities? Not sure how common that one is.

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Originally Posted by jsmorphs2

What about Albinos having eye deformities? Not sure how common that one is.

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never herd of that one, or noticed it. Anyone got any input?

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

ahhh i see. Too confusing for me to all digest tonite but thats weird. Too bad other morphs didnt tend to throw alot of females lol

EDIT: for the record, no one should ever make the mistake of googling banana sex ratio... big mistake! lol jk jk

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hahahahahahaha

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Originally Posted by Slim

That video is classic Kevin being Kevin...:rofl:

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By that you mean intense hand gesturing and wild conjecture based on voodoo superstition (or worse, an unimaginable amount of trial and error)? Not a knock, but I agree it is very standard in the video.

"We produced enough males that we knew it wasn't just bad luck."
Scary to think what that number is... I'm not looking to get flamed so I'll keep my own wild conjecture to myself.

Super Lesser's/Super Butter's are not all bugged eyed, last I saw a bigger breeder said about 50% of them have normal eye's.

I produced my first one in November and she is perfect in every way.

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Originally Posted by Emilio

Super Lesser's/Super Butter's are not all bugged eyed, last I saw a bigger breeder said about 50% of them have normal eye's.

I produced my first one in November and she is perfect in every way.

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Most of the list is sometimes happens, I've actually never seen a bugged eye one in person, quite a few pictures though.

Can we vote any way to have this stickied so you don't need to search for it. :D

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Originally Posted by BPLuvr

Can we vote any way to have this stickied so you don't need to search for it. :D

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If they do that, have a mod replace the first list with the updated list, so it's up top.

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

never herd of that one, or noticed it. Anyone got any input?

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There is a persistent rumor that albino x albino pairings should be avoided due to a higher risk of deformity.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...lbino-breeding

I seem to recall there is also at least one post on RDR's breeding record that documents some deformed babies from an albino x albino pairing.

I think I already said way more than anyone wanted to hear on the subject in the other thread, so I'll leave it at that :P

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Originally Posted by Serpent_Nirvana

There is a persistent rumor that albino x albino pairings should be avoided due to a higher risk of deformity.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...lbino-breeding

I seem to recall there is also at least one post on RDR's breeding record that documents some deformed babies from an albino x albino pairing.

I think I already said way more than anyone wanted to hear on the subject in the other thread, so I'll leave it at that :P

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Didn't even remember that thread and apparently I posted in it lol. I still agree with you though.

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

If they do that, have a mod replace the first list with the updated list, so it's up top.

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is it your intent to include genetically...er, confusing traits as well (not just crosses that often lead to physical deformation)? examples like the toffee being compatible with regular albinos is a morph issue, but only from an investment/phenotype standpoint. I appreciate this sort of quick compendium of known issues, so I'd hate to deviate from what you've compiled, but there is a host of 'morph issues' that don't involve wobbles, viability, or deformities. somehow there seems to be an even greater controversy surrounding those issues than ones that could potentially affect the health of any given clutch, but there you have it.

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Originally Posted by wwmjkd

is it your intent to include genetically...er, confusing traits as well (not just crosses that often lead to physical deformation)? examples like the toffee being compatible with regular albinos is a morph issue, but only from an investment/phenotype standpoint. I appreciate this sort of quick compendium of known issues, so I'd hate to deviate from what you've compiled, but there is a host of 'morph issues' that don't involve wobbles, viability, or deformities. somehow there seems to be an even greater controversy surrounding those issues than ones that could potentially affect the health of any given clutch, but there you have it.

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it is a list of things that are different besides the skin color. I don't see the need to discuss investment issues, since they are temporary. It's about the market more so than the morph.

Albino and toffee sit on the same locus, It's no more of an issue than mojave and lesser or spector and yellow belly. If that's what you were referring to, i have them complied here already http://www.owalreptiles.com/complexes.php