homeschooling

Does anyone else homeschool around here?? Just wondering. I homeschool my 10 year old daughter, we just started 4th grade today and we are using SOS (switched on schoolhouse). We were using Abeka, she needed something a little more visual and with the use of the computer. This SOS has a ton of reading, which is good for comprehension. It seems to be good and she seems to be involved for the most part. KK says it is fun, since we had to get out for a while this morning and it's 6:21 and we are in the middle of school.

We don't have kids yet, but when we decide to, choosing whether or not to homeschool will be a difficult decision.

We homeschooled my daughter with Abeka (I think that was the one) when I was stationed in Hawai'i. It went really well. We found others that did the same and the kids had play days together and plenty of other social gatherings so that she could still get plenty of friend time.

I was home schooled from 3rd grade till high school graduation. My brother was the first home schooler to be accepted into the local university, I was the second, and we both made presidents and deans lists nearly every semester / year, my brother then went out to score in the top 1% of the US on the business accounting exit exams from the university.

That being said, my parents did let us choose, and I chose to Home school as did my brother. My parents taught me for the first few years, but I ended up doing a LOT of self teach programs starting around the 8th grade, and finished out through the 12th on my own accountability. But I proved myself testing into the university under the THEA requirements for anyone getting into a university now.

The only thing your kids would be lacking is social interaction. There are usually meetings you can attend which do help with that, but you need to ensure they continue interacting with people on a regular basis so they don't become that stereotypical anti-social homeschoolers (I do know some of those!)

Just as a disclaimer, I am not a parent, nor do I have direct experience with homeschooling, but from the outside looking in, I think there are several potential problems.

One that has already been mentioned is socialization - if your kids don't interact with other people on a regular basis, the real world is going to be very foreign to them when they end up in it a few years down the line.

Another, and I'm trying to say this as gently as I can, so please don't take offense, is this question: Do you honestly believe that you are a better teacher in *every* subject than the teachers in whatever public or private school your kids would otherwise attend? Those teachers specialize in one subject each, and you're proposing to replicate that collective expertise as a single person. That sounds almost impossible to me. I like to think that I'm a pretty smart guy, but I have ZERO faith in my ability to teach all subjects at or above the level of people who are dedicated to those individual subjects.

A third thing is not directly related to the schooling itself, but relates to a family's financial well-being. Your property taxes already pay for the existence and upkeep of a nearby public school, so why not use it? Of course, my own strained financial situation (newly married, looking for a house, and only one of us is currently employed) may be coloring my view there, but it seems like if you're already paying your share for public school, it's a waste not to use it unless there's some overriding reason, especially since that would free you up to get a job. (Perhaps I'm wrong to assume that if you homeschool, you don't have time for a job, but it seems like teaching every subject would take up a lot of time.)

I'm not saying home schooling can't or doesn't work, but I think people need to take a long, hard look at what the advantages and disadvantages really are before making that decision.

I know this has been brought up before, but I knew some home schooled children at both ends of the socialization spectrum. One family was very active in church and public school sports, probably scouts, the other was not. They need regular interaction with kids their own age and probably of different ages. The awkward home school kids had no problems talking to adults, but were very awkward around kids their own age. This might be an issue of let kids be kids?

I know the "sports" home school kids now as young adults (1 married, 1 out of college) and they are very social and quite the comedians. Unfortunately I do not know the other family as adults.

I think Tim Tebow was homeschooled wasn't he?

Switch on schoolhouse is the worst thing you could use. I had the displeasure of using it, and when I signed up for a distance learning program, I had to redo four years of highschool because I was absolutely clueless on a lot of things.

On top of this, I'm against homeschooling for a lot of reasons. Naturally, the socialization issues, but another issue is: what happens when your kid hits the higher levels of math? Algebra 2, geometry, etc? How are you going to help them with their problems? Plus, there's the issue of the fact that they're only going to get a GED, and not a diploma. A lot of places frown upon GEDs.

Honestly? Do your kid a favor, put them in public school. I wish I had been.

I think if homeschooling is done properly it can be alright...

I had a friend who joined our school halfway through year nine (I started year 9 when I was 13 so not sure what grade that is) and she had been homeschooled...

She got picked on, she had no social skills and neither did her sister, and when it came to education about a certain birds and the bees subject she freaked out because her parents were so strict and embarrassed about it she wasn't exactly in the know. She was really intelligent in other subjects, and eventually made friends but her social skills weren't ever really...all there. Theres a guy i'm still good friends with, he was homeschooled all the way to college (up til he was 16) and he's an absolute legend. Very intelligent.

My brother had to be homeschooled for a short while (long story) and my mum tried it. He eventually went to two more mainstream schools and then a residential school for boys with Aspergers. When he went to mainstream schools, kids just didn't want to socialise with him, they wanted to push his button so he'd react and then get in trouble. He then just wanted to go back to homeschool.

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Originally Posted by olstyn

Just as a disclaimer, I am not a parent, nor do I have direct experience with homeschooling, but from the outside looking in, I think there are several potential problems.

Outside looking in being the operative phrase here.

One that has already been mentioned is socialization - if your kids don't interact with other people on a regular basis, the real world is going to be very foreign to them when they end up in it a few years down the line.

Plenty of ways around this. Many of them have been previously mentioned, i.e. sports, scouts, church, and social organizations.

Another, and I'm trying to say this as gently as I can, so please don't take offense, is this question: Do you honestly believe that you are a better teacher in *every* subject than the teachers in whatever public or private school your kids would otherwise attend? Those teachers specialize in one subject each, and you're proposing to replicate that collective expertise as a single person. That sounds almost impossible to me. I like to think that I'm a pretty smart guy, but I have ZERO faith in my ability to teach all subjects at or above the level of people who are dedicated to those individual subjects.

I'm not going to say this gently...Most public school teachers have long since given up on actually trying to teach...and the one's that still give a crap are hamstrung by more stupid school district policies than Carter has Little Liver Pills.

A third thing is not directly related to the schooling itself, but relates to a family's financial well-being. Your property taxes already pay for the existence and upkeep of a nearby public school, so why not use it? Of course, my own strained financial situation (newly married, looking for a house, and only one of us is currently employed) may be coloring my view there, but it seems like if you're already paying your share for public school, it's a waste not to use it unless there's some overriding reason, especially since that would free you up to get a job. (Perhaps I'm wrong to assume that if you homeschool, you don't have time for a job, but it seems like teaching every subject would take up a lot of time.)

When you homeschool, you just have to chalk this up as the price of doing business. No different from someone who chooses to send their child to a private school. You pay private school tuition, and still pay for the public schools through your taxes.

I'm not saying home schooling can't or doesn't work, but I think people need to take a long, hard look at what the advantages and disadvantages really are before making that decision.

Which, sounds to me, a whole lot like what she's doing now.

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Originally Posted by RetiredJedi

I think Tim Tebow was homeschooled wasn't he?

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Yes he was. All his siblings as well.

lmao what was the point of bringing Tebow into this convo?

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I'm not going to say this gently...Most public school teachers have long since given up on actually trying to teach...and the one's that still give a crap are hamstrung by more stupid school district policies than Carter has Little Liver Pills.

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As someone who both went through the public school system and has several relatives who teach in it, I take offense to that idea. While there are certainly teachers who are nigh on worthless, there are tons of great ones as well.

Also, good job attacking people who aren't in the conversation to defend themselves rather than answering the question I posed.

I gotta vote no on homeschooling, if only for the reasons mentioned above - even a completely, should be fired, burnt out teacher is still going to know their material better than the average person. If the idea is to bring up smarter kids who go further than their adults, how do you do that if your capacity is only so high? You can only bring your kids up to your own level, not beyond. (Unless they are really into independent learning, but that happens just fine at Public schools as well.)

I also say Public schools because the state I grew up in had a program that you could attend local colleges during your junior and senior years. The state paid for the classes, materials, and books. This was to encourage the schools to try to keep students there, but for me it was free college! I suppose I should add this disclaimer: I am related to 2 Public and 1 Private school teacher and have taught at the University level a couple of semesters myself. Teaching is a great joy but a HUGE responsibility - IMHO.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

lmao what was the point of bringing Tebow into this convo?

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Just as an example of someone famous who is doing quite well after being homeschooled that's all. No big deal, just keeping the conversation going.

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Originally Posted by RetiredJedi

Just as an example of someone famous who is doing quite well after being homeschooled that's all. No big deal, just keeping the conversation going.

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I apologize if that first comment sounded rude, i didnt mean for it to. Im a huge football fan so my thought process was thinking thats like saying, "homechool your kids if you want them to grow up and and be an NFL QB who only completes 46%".

lmfao. now tom brady on the other hand...

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

I apologize if that first comment sounded rude, i didnt mean for it to. Im a huge football fan so my thought process was thinking thats like saying, "homechool your kids if you want them to grow up and and be an NFL QB who only completes 46%".

lmfao. now tom brady on the other hand...

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No harm, no foul Mike. I'm not a Tebow fan per se' when it comes to football but since the OP was asking what people thought of homeschooling and we homeschooled my daughter when she was young, I just wanted to add someone people see in the news all the time as an example.

Heh. I don't even know who Tebow is.

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Originally Posted by sleepygeckos

I gotta vote no on homeschooling, if only for the reasons mentioned above - even a completely, should be fired, burnt out teacher is still going to know their material better than the average person. If the idea is to bring up smarter kids who go further than their adults, how do you do that if your capacity is only so high? You can only bring your kids up to your own level, not beyond. (Unless they are really into independent learning, but that happens just fine at Public schools as well.)

I also say Public schools because the state I grew up in had a program that you could attend local colleges during your junior and senior years. The state paid for the classes, materials, and books. This was to encourage the schools to try to keep students there, but for me it was free college! I suppose I should add this disclaimer: I am related to 2 Public and 1 Private school teacher and have taught at the University level a couple of semesters myself. Teaching is a great joy but a HUGE responsibility - IMHO.

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While I see your point, I also know that if given the correct resources to teach, or to learn, you can have your child surpass you. There are things I taught my teachers in school, in a variety of subjects... was this because I was smarter than them? I have no idea. This isn't a measurement of intelligence, but I did know how to research the things I was interested in. There were things I got right away, that I wish we didn't have to spend as much time on, and there were things I was very interested in that I wish we could have gone into more detail about. Can't do that in a structured public school system.

If I ever have children, I can't promise to know everything about every subject, but I can promise to try my best to encourage a sense of curiosity and motivate my child to search for more information.

I absolutely suck at math. I get anxious and panicky when I have to do math... does that mean my child would be bad at math if I were to homeschool them? No, it means I need to do everything I can to make sure they succeed - by improving myself, or by finding a tutor, or another program to supplement home schooling. This also means not showing how anxious math makes me, but projecting a 'lets figure this out together!' type attitude.

Sure, not everybody can be expected to do everything necessary... not everybody knows how to research, or sort through the facts/fiction when researching... but not every history/psychology/english/whatever teacher knows or cares about every detail in their field. Homeschooling, if done in the right hands/minds, can be a much better option than public school.

Having said all that, I'm not sure I would do it, not because of any negatives or pitfalls, but because I don't know if I would be up to the challenge necessary. I can barely keep up with preparing the fresh foods my birds need on a daily basis... let alone the thought of raising kids and staying home with them all day :P

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Originally Posted by Raptor

Heh. I don't even know who Tebow is.

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lol good one...

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

lol good one...

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Well, I don't . From what I've gleaned, he's some football person. I don't pay attention to sports, so, yeah.

Completely disagree. Parents level of education did not change my education level in the slightest of ways.

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Originally Posted by Raptor

Well, I don't . From what I've gleaned, he's some football person. I don't pay attention to sports, so, yeah.

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Oh em gee!
I need to start working with you lol!
Jk, but describing him as "some football person" is quite accurate.
Now brady on the other hand... "some football legend". :gj: :gj: :gj:
Its ok. I had a friend who came to my super bowl party and when he arrived he asked what inning they were in lmao.

EDIT: i just realized that you wouldnt get the joke because youre not a sports person lol. Nevermind ill just stop haha

A lot of people in my extended family have been homeschooled. About half of them turned out fine and are furthering their education in college and beyond, but the other half is struggling to keep up with age-level academics. They have speech problems, very evident social setbacks, and are generally clueless about the world outside their yard. I am not saying this is the case for all homeschooled kids as I do support responsible independent education, but I fear that this is the case for all too many of these kids.

I think a lot of it has to do with the reasons for homeschooling, and the individual kids and parents who do it. Some families homeschool b/c they are overbearing or fear the government "indoctrinating" their children, some do it because they refuse routine immunizations and vaccinations, some are insistent on telling their kids only what they want them to know. Of course, many and most do it because they are sincerely dedicated to providing their children with the best and most thorough education possible, and believe they are able to facilitate it. I do commend that attitude. But for the most part, if they can afford it, I'd say that most homeschool-minded parents are better off sending their kids to a private school.

As a public high school junior, I am proud of my education thus far and would hardly say that the public school system is beyond repair. Many teachers - mine, for example - are still absolutely passionate about their jobs. I know I've been lucky. I know that many schools are indeed lacking in devoted faculty and balanced curriculum, but I do feel that the average parent is not qualified to be the sole educator for a child. Thankfully, these days there are a lot more options like homeschool groups, online curriculum, and local independent classes.

I've seen the best and worst of homeschooling within my own family. My brothers and I were started with homeschooling prior to being enrolled in public school. I think in some ways it gave us a leg up in our comprehension of certain subjects. My youngest brother has been homeschooled his entire life. He's married at 18 to a girl who had to be emancipated after they got pregnant because she was too young to legally marry on her own, he still lives at home with his wife and child and he has no life skills to speak of should his hourly job fall through. I know for a fact my mom didn't provide any type of sexual education to him and I have to wonder if she didn't purposefully hold him back in life because he's the baby and she wants to be needed...anyway, that's a whole other topic for a different thread.

Like rebelrachel said, I think some parents do the homeschooling thing to be able to indoctrinate their children into one way of thinking; that's proven to be the case with my own family. Their opinions are fact, their is no discussion on anything and if you don't follow their way of living, well...you won't be invited over for Thanksgiving dinner, to say the least! Whatever. I have mixed emotions about this topic, as I've met some incredible people who are extremely talented who were homeschooled all of their lives and then there is my own family who I think represents some of the worst examples of how not to do things. I go back and forth on it, as I've seen the best and worst of both sides of things from the homeschooling crowd to the public school systems. Neither is perfect but both can be made to work and give the kid(s) the best possible chances later in life; it all comes down to the motivations and commitments from the parents and the teachers, regardless of whether it's public, private, or home.

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Originally Posted by reptileexperts

Completely disagree. Parents level of education did not change my education level in the slightest of ways.

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Consider yourself lucky. It screwed me over in the math department.

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Originally Posted by olstyn

As someone who both went through the public school system and has several relatives who teach in it, I take offense to that idea. While there are certainly teachers who are nigh on worthless, there are tons of great ones as well.
Also, good job attacking people who aren't in the conversation to defend themselves rather than answering the question I posed.

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Take offense if you must, but If you think I said what I did about public school teachers without a large amount of personal insight in to the profession, you are mistaken.

The only question you posed in your post was:

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Originally Posted by olstyn

Do you honestly believe that you are a better teacher in *every* subject than the teachers in whatever public or private school your kids would otherwise attend?

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And even though I did answer it indirectly, let me be less cryptic; while a homeschooling parent might not be the best teacher in every subject, most are better overall educators, and certainly in a better position to know when outside sourcing is needed for specific subjects.

And,

Who did I attack that wasn’t in the conversation? If you took my post as an attack, then that is on you. I was making counter points to your debate. That's how debate works. At least that's what I teach the homeschooled kids on the debate team I coach. A two time Virginia state VISAA winning debate team, at that ;)

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Originally Posted by sleepygeckos

even a completely, should be fired, burnt out teacher is still going to know their material better than the average person.

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Your statement both sells homeschool parents short, and idealizes teachers. A mistake on both ends. If you are an average person, then you should probably send your kids to public school. The parents of the homeschooled kids I work with are far above average.

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Originally Posted by sleepygeckos

I also say Public schools because the state I grew up in had a program that you could attend local colleges during your junior and senior years.

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Several states have the same program for homeschooled students. In fact, per capita, homeschooled students have a higher acceptance rate and generally carry a heavier course load both in terms of number of hours and academic challenge.

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Originally Posted by Raptor

Consider yourself lucky. It screwed me over in the math department.

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I'm sorry your experience was less than desirable. I seriously doubt luck had anything to do with good a outcome versus a bad one. Everyone's mileage will vary.

Can someone tell me an upside to homeschool? ( not being sarcastic)
I just don't see one. School is far more then just education. Even if a parent is able to educate their child as well as a teacher would they can't duplicate everything that goes on at school. Making friends, playing sports, getting involved in clubs, relationships, dances, The list goes on. These are all things that kids shouldn't miss out on. Now negatives, dealing with a bully maybe? If you don't encounter some sort of getting picked on how are you gong to deal with it in the real world. There are bully's out in the work place as well. My opinion is home schooling will do nothing more then force a kid to live a sheltered life.

Rob, I'm not against traditional schooling, but I violently support a parent's right to take matters into their own hands and not trust the government to know what's right when it comes to educating their kids.

One of the main advantages to homeschooling is the individual attention that can never happen in a traditional class room environment. Also, homeschool parents can tailor the curriculum (within state standards) to fit the child’s needs and interest.

The home school kids I work with as a debate coach have friends, relationships, play sports and do 90% of the stuff you listed. What they don't have is a locker in a hallway, crappy lunchroom food, and distracting, disruptive class mates.

There is a large difference between education and training. Most of the homeschooling parents I work with feel the traditional public school system has transitioned from education, and into training...training to pass state mandated standardized tests. Education is a level above training and that's where these parents want their kids to be.

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Originally Posted by olstyn

As someone who both went through the public school system and has several relatives who teach in it, I take offense to that idea. While there are certainly teachers who are nigh on worthless, there are tons of great ones as well.

Thank you from a public school teacher who works her ass off to make sure her students do well.

Also, good job attacking people who aren't in the conversation to defend themselves rather than answering the question I posed.

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I did not always teach. I worked in a lab for 6 years before making the change. I took a $35,000 pay cut to do it. I thought it would be easy. I would be done at 3pm. I would have my summers off. Boy was I wrong never worked harder in my life.

The reason I was homeschooled? My dad is a bit of a nutjob and was paranoid about the government. Not to mention, he was severely controlling.

Thanks to homeschooling, I'm socially awkward, anti-social, have issues relating to people my own age (and people in general), have issues in higher levels of math (what happens when a parent who only had pre-algebra tries to teach algebra 2), and a nice other host of issues that I won't go into.

Sure. I was in camp fires and I played with the other kids in my housing development. In campfires, I was treated as an outsider and picked on because all the kids knew each other from school. My "friends" at the housing development were not only several years older than me, they borderline abusive because they saw me as a smart allelic and I put up with it because I was so starved for interaction with people in my own age group.

So, I reiterate, don't homeschool your kids. It'll screw em up.

Everyone should be free to make their own choices when it comes to how their children are educated...start to finish.

Homeschooling is not for everyone. I meet people all the time who certainly should not be teaching their own children. But, as I have said about so many issues, I support their right to do as they see fit, even if I think they're idiots.

Homeschooling is not the root of evil and will not hasten the arrival of the zombie apocalypse. Neither will sending your kids to public school….ok, that one might, but I digress.

The important thing is to get educated on the facts and make an informed decision.

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Originally Posted by Slim

Your statement both sells homeschool parents short, and idealizes teachers. A mistake on both ends. If you are an average person, then you should probably send your kids to public school. The parents of the homeschooled kids I work with are far above average.

Several states have the same program for homeschooled students. In fact, per capita, homeschooled students have a higher acceptance rate and generally carry a heavier course load both in terms of number of hours and academic challenge.

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Well, if it is a debate not directed at anyone, as per your response to olstyn, then is it not appropriate to show statistics that prove homeschooled students have higher acceptance rates and carry a larger course load? *I* know this is not the case in my state because, as I said, I have taught at the University level: Homeschoolers have a very difficult time getting into colleges and universities because of different laws regarding GED or if they can get a HS diploma. However, I will agree that the ones that do make it often do take a higher course load because they have to in order to catch up with the requirements and often require extra hours of instructor assistance (which instructors are never paid enough for) because they simply need the help and are used to one on one help. From what I have personally seen, many end up in the local community college, not that there is anything wrong with that - great way to start to save money normally, but they spend twice as long there basically re-doing high school. It is very hard and very sad to see.

Homeschooling can be very hard on the students for many of the reasons others have said above and it makes me sad for the students that really could do so much better in public school. Whatever tradeoff is being used as the reason for taking the child of school, IMHExperience is not worth the potential loss of the whole public adventure.

What I don't understand is how my comment "idealizes" teachers if I stated that many of them are burnt out and worthless?

And for my source, you seem to be beating around the bush - I have admitted several times to being on contract a few times teaching at a University level. I taught Engineering (Undergraduate and Graduate levels) and I also volunteer for a local high school for handicapped students, where we do everything in our power so we can to get those students into "regular" classrooms.

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Originally Posted by Slim

And even though I did answer it indirectly, let me be less cryptic; while a homeschooling parent might not be the best teacher in every subject, most are better overall educators, and certainly in a better position to know when outside sourcing is needed for specific subjects.

And,

Who did I attack that wasn’t in the conversation? If you took my post as an attack, then that is on you. I was making counter points to your debate. That's how debate works. At least that's what I teach the homeschooled kids on the debate team I coach. A two time Virginia state VISAA winning debate team, at that ;)

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Indirectly answered, eh? It looked more like an attempt to deflect/ignore the question and redirect the conversation in a different direction, which is a tactic many politicians use during debates. As to who you attacked that wasn't in the conversation to defend themselves, I didn't think that was terribly difficult to understand: public school teachers. You said the vast majority of them are awful, which is, at least in MY experience, untrue.

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Originally Posted by Slim

Everyone should be free to make their own choices when it comes to how their children are educated...start to finish..

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X 2 to each there own.

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Originally Posted by sleepygeckos

is it not appropriate to show statistics that prove homeschooled students have higher acceptance rates and carry a larger course load?

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First off, I was talking specifically about homeschoolers doing dual placement during their Jr/Sr years of high school. That was the question asked. That was subject of my response. You jumped straight to full acceptance to college after homeschool graduation. A separate subject, but one I will address in a moment.

Secondly, I said per capita. According to research done by Dr. Rhonda Galloway, Bob Jones University, 38% of homeschooled students participate in a dual enrollment program at junior colleges, trade school, colleges and universities. Do more than 38% of traditional high school Jrs/Srs participate in the same type of programs? Exclude work/study programs where they work half a day at McDonalds, and I think your research will show you that they do not.

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Originally Posted by sleepygeckos

*I* know this is not the case in my state because, as I said, I have taught at the University level: Homeschoolers have a very difficult time getting into colleges and universities because of different laws regarding GED or if they can get a HS diploma.

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The difficulty of getting into college with a GED (and every state is different about what kind of certificate a homeschool graduate earns, many award diplomas) is the great myth of homeschooling. And with few exceptions, a GED and a qualifying SAT score is all you need to get into college. And before you go listing places like Harvard and Yale as places you can't possibly get into if you were homeschooled, please do your homework.

Further research done by Dr. Galloway shows that:

- Stanford University in the fall of 1999 accepted 27% of homeschooled applicants. This is twice the acceptance rate of publicly and privately schooled students.

- Homeschooled students at Boston University had an average GPA of 3.3, and Kennesaw State University confirms that the GPA’s of their homeschooled students are significantly higher than the average.

I acknowledge your teaching experience. I taught for four years at the United States Air Force Accademy preparatory school. In four years I never had a homeschooled student...they all bypassed the prep school and went straight to the USAFA, which should tell you something. The Air Force Academy has fairly stringent academic requirements for acceptance. Homeschooled graduates have made up from 3 to 5% of the USAFA freshmen class since 2004.

I also currently work with homeschooled students as a subject matter expert.

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Originally Posted by sleepygeckos

However, I will agree that the ones that do make it often do take a higher course load because they have to in order to catch up with the requirements and often require extra hours of instructor assistance (which instructors are never paid enough for) because they simply need the help and are used to one on one help.

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Sounds like you are basing this on your anecdotal experience. Mine has been just the opposite.

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Originally Posted by sleepygeckos

but they spend twice as long there basically re-doing high school.

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Do you have any data to back this statement or is it also anecdotal?

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Originally Posted by sleepygeckos

Homeschooling can be very hard on the students for many of the reasons others have said above and it makes me sad for the students that really could do so much better in public school. Whatever tradeoff is being used as the reason for taking the child of school, IMHExperience is not worth the potential loss of the whole public adventure.

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This is entirely your opinion, which you are entitled to, but please don't try and pass it off as fact. And, what you call a public adventure, some would call a public disaster. There are two sides to that coin.

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Originally Posted by sleepygeckos

What I don't understand is how my comment "idealizes" teachers if I stated that many of them are burnt out and worthless?

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Because that is not all you stated. What you said was:

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Originally Posted by sleepygeckos

even a completely, should be fired, burnt out teacher is still going to know their material better than the average person.

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Saying that a really bad teacher (with a certificate suitable for framing) is better than not having a teacher at all, is showing just a little idolization...

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Originally Posted by olstyn

Indirectly answered, eh? It looked more like an attempt to deflect/ignore the question and redirect the conversation in a different direction, which is a tactic many politicians use during debates. As to who you attacked that wasn't in the conversation to defend themselves, I didn't think that was terribly difficult to understand: public school teachers. You said the vast majority of them are awful, which is, at least in MY experience, untrue.

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LMAO, I'm sorry, I did not realize that the subject of a conversation had to actually be present to win here in the Off Topic Cafe...

MY experience with public school teachers has been different than yours.

And you misrepresented my statement. I said that:

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Most public school teachers have long since given up on actually trying to teach...and the one's that still give a crap are hamstrung by more stupid school district policies than Carter has Little Liver Pills

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Talk about a tactic many politicians use during debates...

I'm usually just a lurker, but this topic tends to raise my hackles...

Two of my younger cousins are home schooled. They've been home schooled for roughly 3 years now. The older one, who is dyslexic, is now 17 and the younger one is 16. My aunt chose to pull them out of public school for two reasons.

1.) The school refused to work with the older cousin's learning disabilities. They promised him lunches at the local cafes if he passed tests. He couldn't keep up with note taking. So he failed. And when he failed, he was yelled at by his teachers.

2.) My younger cousin was being bullied by other girls at school. My aunt asked the principal, "So, you're basically telling me she has to be eating concrete before you do something?" The principal said yes.

They use a home school co-op. A local vet teaches biology and my aunt, who is a nutritionist and personal trainer, teaches health and physical education. Other subjects they learn from lectures online. The older cousin is now excelling in what he was failing because he is better at taking notes. My younger cousin is now taking classes at the local community college and will graduate from high school early.

They get plenty of interaction from their peers through church groups, 4H, co-op sports teams, dance, and rodeo. The co-op competes in a few sports, writing, art, and other things against schools in the area. For the last 2 years, my younger cousin has won overall in a short story competition amongst 100 something students, most who attend public school.

If they has stayed in public school, they would have never had the opportunity to excel the way they have. In Texas, it feels like all the kids are learning how to do is to pass the standardized tests. In my area, the school systems are horrible. When it comes time, we will most likely home school our son. Yes, there are home school kids who have problems in the "real world." But it's also the same for lots of public school kids.

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Originally Posted by Slim

Dr. Rhonda Galloway, Bob Jones University

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Huh, that's interesting, google says... Bob Jones University (BJU) is a private, for-profit,non-denominational Protestant university in Greenville, South Carolina.

Also, work-study programs hardly let students "work at McDonalds" half a day - that's showing your own ignorance.

It is clear this conversation is not serving the thread. I'm sorry for my part in threadjacking, but a friend pointed this out to me and hoped I'd to bring some, obviously unwelcome, enlightenment.

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Originally Posted by spygirl

They use a home school co-op. A local vet teaches biology and my aunt, who is a nutritionist and personal trainer, teaches health and physical education.

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I am instructor in a similar Co-Op style teaching circle.

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Originally Posted by sleepygeckos

Huh, that's interesting, google says... Bob Jones University (BJU) is a private, for-profit,non-denominational Protestant university in Greenville, South Carolina.

Google is correct about that. What makes that so wrong, and how does it invalidate Dr. Galloway's research? Even though I, myself am an atheist, the academic in me has no problems recognizing that many religiously affiliated or founded colleges and universities are fine schools.

What do you have the greater problem with? Is it that that BJU is private, for-profit, Protestant, or that it’s located in Greenville, South Carolina? Clearly you have some issue since selected that as the focus of your post. Not trying to be snotty, but I do find it interesting that you would focus so closely on that.

Also, work-study programs hardly let students "work at McDonalds" half a day - that's showing your own ignorance.

Funny, Hampton High School, yes, the Home of the Crabbers, has exactly that program for their seniors. In fact, I personally know two young men who are doing that very program right now...as we speak...this semester. I won't take any offense at you calling me ignorant since you are seemingly ignorant of what I do and don't know for a fact. I do find it interesting that you obviously think I just make this stuff up...

It is clear this conversation is not serving the thread. I'm sorry for my part in threadjacking, but a friend pointed this out to me and hoped I'd to bring some, obviously unwelcome, enlightenment.

Not sure how any of this is threadjacking. We are talking about homeschooling, and as I stated earlier, the more you know about the pros and cons, the more informed your decision will ultimately be. I would say that if the OP is still following this thread, she has seen quite a bit of both sides of the debate. I'm sorry you feel your part in it was wasted.

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