Need advice about bp's growth rate

Hi there!

I recently (January) bought 2 baby ball pythons from a herp store. 1 male, 1 female. These would be my first snakes ever.

I have been feeding them 1 hopper each every week. They both eat, they both poop. They're both active.

The problem is that altho they both started roughly the same size, the male has been growing a lot while the female has remained the same size. They were not both from the same breeder.

I will take her to the vet if I have to, but I wanted to know if any of this sounded normal an if there is something I can or should do without needing to pay $300 to a vet to do it.

Thanks!!!!




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Ah... Her name is Manasha. His name is Bogo. (buy one get one "free").


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Also, no idea if this information is relevant or not.

She is a super pastel bp.
He is a fire bp.


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Some BPs grow at different rates, I wouldn't worry about her.

If you want her to gain more size, you can feed a appropriate sized feeder every 5 days instead of 7. That's how I feed my younger BPs and they grow great, then once they're bigger you can scale back feedings if you choose.

Also, I'm sure they can be on at least adult mice or rat pups: you can feed the 10-15% rule (feed a feeder that is that percentage of your BP's weight). You'd be surprised at the size of feeders they can handle.

Yeah, I'm guessing the main reason is inappropriate sized prey items. Even hatchling ball pythons can generally take larger than hopper mice. Getting them on rats will help greatly as well. Although they do grow at different rates, if they were hatchlings in January, I would expect them to easily be on weaned rats or so by now.

As long as they are eating regularly, shedding, pooping and peeing, then the rate at which they gain is really not that important. Given that the factors I just listed are in balance, they will gain as much as they are able to gain. Some will gain fast, and others will gain a little more slowly.

My personal theory is that all baby ball pythons are genetically wired to be good eaters prior to reaching breeding size/age. This programed instinct gets them bigger quicker which accomplishes two things 1) Gets them off the bottom of the food chain quicker 2) Gets them to breeding size faster so they can pass on their genetic material to the next generation.

But, deversity being what it is, they will always grow and gain at their own pace.

I usually buy 4 hoppers at a time, feed them each one, and then feed the other two hoppers for 7 days to keep them alive until the next feeding.

Today I tried to feed them the last 2 hoppers. Stuck them in their feeding box with the hoppers while I was out. Hours later I got home and found one hopper dead in the box and the 2nd one alive. The snakes hadn't eaten. I'll try again tomorrow with new mice. They sometimes seem to reject the hoppers for some reason.

So everything I've read says to feed mice or rats as fat as the fattest part of the snake. The male could probably handle a full grown mouse, but the female is still hopper size.

Should I stick to the hoppers with her and just feed her 2? Or stick to the hoppers and feed one every 5 days?

Also, is there something I can give the mice while I'm keeping them alive that will deworming them, make them more nutritious, or more appetizing to the snakes? Thx!!


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There is no need to feed your BPs in a separate box. In fact, it can do more harm than good. Unless, you are keeping these snakes in the same enclosure. You aren't housing them together, are you?

I'm sure they could both handle adult mice in the 20 ish gram range. Most juvenile BP's graduate to adult mice or rat pups pretty quickly.

Your best bet is to purchase a scale. It really comes in handy for measuring the weight gain progress of your snakes, and for weighing prey items.

I would not try to de-worm any mice you hold over. It could cause more harm than good, and is really not needed to make them more nutritious. They are completely nutritious just as they are.

Thank you. I will be going over to the herp store I got them from today. I'll take the snakes with me and ask them to give mice they think they can handle. And see how that compares to what you're telling me.

Not that I don't trust you, I'm just curious to see the difference in mentality. These herp guys have been in this business forEVER and I have lots of friends and coworkers who have gone to the for their herp needs and advice.

Having said that, tho, I'm sure you will quickly lose all faith in their knowledge when you hear that they told me I could house both these snakes together, no problem. And yes they're housed together. I am aware of the online community feels this is a terrible idea, but the herp guys at this store blew that off and told me they do it all the time without any problems. Their enclosure is big enough that I can easily split it and seperate them. So I'm not worried. They are tiny enough that they won't breed now anyway.

Here's a picture of Manasha so you can see how small she is.

http://img.tapatalk.com/6344b473-c4a9-0f34.jpg


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http://squamishserpents.ca/care-info...-one-enclosure

You missed the key word. "Without any problems YET" People who house together often forget that one little key word.

Why you'd spend that amount of money of those morphs, and then risk housing them together is beyond me. You could afford the morphs, but not two different set ups?

To offer more to the thread, balls grow at different rates, especially when they are being fed smaller than normal meals. One hopper every 7 days will allow for very slow growth.

All I gotta say to that is WOW. I had heard of this, but I don't beleive I've ever seen pix like this or realized that this could happen with snakes so young and of the same size.

Thanks for showing that to me! I should print this out and give it to the local herp guys.

Lgray23, like I said, their enclosure is big enough that it can be easily split and the can be separated. I *did* think of separating them from the beginning, but believed there was plenty of time to make that decision.

It has never been a matter of money. I have 7 other pets and they all get what they need including vet visits.

Going back to the topic of growth...
do you guys base the feeder size and frequency on the size or on the weight of the snake, or on both? Is there a guide somewhere I should be looking at?

I've been meaning to get a scale for months. And not just for the snakes. I'll just go ahead and get one today.

I appreciate the help. I just want my snakes to be healthy and well taken care of.


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Sadly, a lot of it comes with some experience. Most eye ball it, feed a prey item about the same width or slightly larger as the fattest part of your snake. I really only feed very young, like hatchlings, hopper mice, and that's only if they refuse f/t, I'll throw in a live hopper mouse to spark their interest in food. As they gain some size you just up the prey size, I'll usually go right from hoppers to adult mice, adult mice to weaned rats, so on. If you're nervous about a prey item being too large, get the size smaller and try that. If it goes down without issue and without leaving any kind of "bump" once it's swallowed, then you can usually safely use the slightly large prey item next time. It's a lot of trial and error, and as some have mentioned before, the 15-20% rule only works up to a certain size (of snake). However, having a scale is always a good thing.

Sorry, I realized after I posted the link that it should have come with a warning. I know how confusing it is to get conflicting info, especially when it comes to your pets. Good luck with everything.

Put them on the scale and weight them !! then feed them something preferably (rat) every 4 days, You will notice significant growth by week 2 :)

My normal on the 4 day Schedule has put on 105 grams in just under a month, where my Lesser on smaller meals has come up but is now on the same size feeders as my normal,

they are both eating 23-26 gram rats... speaking of eating, today is feeding day :)

Surprised nobody else has mentioned this, but please do not ever leave your snake alone with a live feeder. Someone posted a horrifying thread just last week with pictures of their snake nearly chewed in half by a rat. I realize a hopper is less dangerous, but the snake you pictured is very small and if a bite landed, say, on its eyeball...

Thanks for the advice.

I'm about to leave with the snakes to the herp store to ask them their opinion as well.

They are currently in a 55g tank and will be moved into a 75g tank this week or next. It's current inhabited by a handful of fish. Those fish are moving. I have a divider for it and will separate them then.

Here is a pic I just took 5 minutes ago.

Manasha the female is top
Bogo the Male is below.

http://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-4R...84B34F311C.JPG


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A tangle of snake.
Sorry if this makes you cringe.



http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-eM...42B4B05EE9.JPG


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I meant to ask this. My kids noticed these little black critters crawling all over them as I took that pic (my eyesight sucks).

Sure enough (with the glasses on) I can see tiny little black specks crawling about. What could these be?


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Sounds like it could be mites... Order a can of P.A.M. (prevent a mite). Make sure you follow the directions exactly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

I meant to ask this. My kids noticed these little black critters crawling all over them as I took that pic (my eyesight sucks).

Sure enough (with the glasses on) I can see tiny little black specks crawling about. What could these be?


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Those black "specks" are more than likely mites. See if your herp store sells mite spray, the one I use is called provent a mite

and for the LOVE of GOD stop taking them to the HERP store !!! If they have mites you are 1 risking infecting other snakes 2 stressing them out with the3 travel !!

Is it just me, or do they not look anything like a super pastel or a fire? Idk I don't see a classic fire head stamp, and certainly not the severe blushing of a SP...how much did you pay for them?

As others have said, the black "critters" are mites, and are very bad. Order some Provent-a-mite asap. There are countless threads on the product, and follow the directions to an exact. This herp store sounds like a dump, I'd avoid it at all costs.....

Idk maybe the pictures aren't the best, but I really don't see super pastel or fire in either. Possibly one looks regular pastel, and the other looks normal to me.....

Exotix, this would be the first time ever taking them back to the herp store since I bought them. I certainly don't want to infect the entire business. Please, I do have some amount of common sense.

I will ask them to eyeball the snakes from afar. But I will certainly tell them they have mites before I enter the store with them.

Anyway, I go there regularly for hoppers and that place is usually packed with people. Some of which bring their snakes to ask questions.

Boy, so they have mites. Lovely. Whenever things like this happen, my first thought is for my other pets. Will my dogs get mites. That blue background on those pix IS MY BED! So now I have to worry about having spread these on my bed. Pet ownership is fun!!

I have a rabbit in isolation because of earmites. I wonder if he's where these came from.

Anyways. I'm not at the herp store yet. Thanks again.



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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

Exotix, this would be the first time ever taking them back to the herp store since I bought them. I certainly don't want to infect the entire business. Please, I do have some amount of common sense.

I will ask them to eyeball the snakes from afar. But I will certainly tell them they have mites before I enter the store with them.

Anyway, I go there regularly for hoppers and that place is usually packed with people. Some of which bring their snakes to ask questions.

Boy, so they have mites. Lovely. Whenever things like this happen, my first thought is for my other pets. Will my dogs get mites. That blue background on those pix IS MY BED! So now I have to worry about having spread these on my bed. Pet ownership is fun!!

I have a rabbit in isolation because of earmites. I wonder if he's where these came from.

Anyways. I'm not at the herp store yet. Thanks again.



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These types of mites only affect reptiles.

My snakes do not leave the house, Unless it is a trip outside on a nice warm day.. When I go to a petstore, If I am asked to handle a reptile I will never come home with out spraying my self down with some sort of mite spray. then shower and change.

I was just saying if your snakes have mites leave them at home and do not bring them anywhere !!!

Any store that allows someone to bring there herps in is asking for trouble !!

You should like mentioned above, stay away from that store.. hunker down and spend some time reading here !!!

Hey, as someone who chose these snakes because I liked their patterns, I honestly don't care if they are "legitimate". But out of curiosity, I do want to know for sure. I wouldn't take them back either way, tho. I'm not a breeder so I don't care about het.

But please do tell me what you think. Those pix are dark because my bedroom is dark (no overhead lights). I'll take better pictures later if possible or tomorrow morning when it's bright.


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Roughly $200 each.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by LGray23

Idk maybe the pictures aren't the best, but I really don't see super pastel or fire in either. Possibly one looks regular pastel, and the other looks normal to me.....

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I have to agree after seeing the bigger pics...

OP: Get them on some adult mice each or some smaller rats (they can both easily take them, if the pet store people say that they should stay on hoppers then I wouldn't put too much credibility on them) and get a can of PAM: it does wonders. I'd also put them on paper towel substrate so you can easily see the mites.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

Roughly $200 each

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I've never seen a super pastel FEMALE for $200 - even at expo prices.

Yes I'm beginning to realize that. I should have come here since before I got them. Those herp guys must have known about the cannibalism. And if they did know they should have told me.


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they are likely highschool kids who know no better..


Just read your butt off and ask questions, as I type my normal is in a tupper ware container swiming with a micro fiber cloth (Stuck Shed) although this shed was 100% better then his first I am beginning to think he's lazy :D as my lesser in the same conditions 100% shed perfectly.

and then time to eat :)

we would never steer you wrong here... as we love our pets, friends !!!

as hard as it is give us some trust !!

That price was similar to other herp stores in the area. I did see them cheever online, tho. Nothing about that price surprises me around here. It's *Boca* afterall, where even McDonald's has valet parking.

I'm back from the herp store. I left the snakes in the car. I was already on the road when I realized what they had was mites. They would not have let me enter with snakes full of mites anyway ( I asked ). As is usual for them on the weekends, they were swamped and today also short staffed. He still answered all my questions. Said hoppers were too small and that I should be giving them mice. No surprise there. So I got 4 mice.

I asked about the cannibalism. Btw, the main guy over there is no a teenager. He's either the store owner or manager. Late 30's, early 40's. I think he actually sleeps with the snakes at night (joke).

I asked about housing them together again. And again he said it was fine. I told them I had read about the cannibalism. He said yes, he knows, but it's very rare and he's never seen it happen with ball pythons.

He was going to make me a batch of their in-store solution for mites, but I declined. He seemed way too busy and there were 4 others waiting on him. I'll just order the PAM online.

I'm going to email him a link to the page about cannibalism. Maybe he really just doesn't know. Whatever. Not my problem.

So I'm siting here watching the snakes completely ignore the mice. Is it common for them to refuse to eat when they have mites? They usually jump on the food immediately after I put them in.


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I'm pretty sure the mouse I put in with the male was biting him. So I've put the snakes back in the tank without having eaten. I guess I'll try again later.


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could be they are stressed from the ride !!

Hopefully you will decide to put some faith into what you have read here or keep believing what some guy at a pet store that needs to SELL in order to stay in business !

Do you seriously think they wouldn't allow you into the store with a mite infested snake?? Did they have someone at the door inspecting what people were bringing in ??

Separate your guys, and let them settle then attempt to feed !

again, not trying to belittle you just trying to help you understand what your Ball's need !!

OMFG \

After reading your last post, you need to list your snakes in the for sale section ASAP !! everyone here is trying to help yet you haven't done anything to help yourself or your SNAKES

I have one final question,

You bought Morphs, In mid January

What are they hatch dates ??

Any reputable place will have that information and would of given it to you !!

Can you give us that please

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

That price was similar to other herp stores in the area. I did see them cheever online, tho. Nothing about that price surprises me around here. It's *Boca* afterall, where even McDonald's has valet parking.
So I'm siting here watching the snakes completely ignore the mice. Is it common for them to refuse to eat when they have mites? They usually jump on the food immediately after I put them in.

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Bolded: I can guarantee all the other pastels at the price weren't supers either then. I would double check their sexes too: if they sold a normal pastel as a super I'd be having some doubts.

I agree that I think they're not hungry due to the stress of the drive to and from the herp store. I'd separate them and leave them be for at least a day before offering a mouse again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

I'm pretty sure the mouse I put in with the male was biting him. So I've put the snakes back in the tank without having eaten. I guess I'll try again later.

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Always monitor live feedings, even if you have to sit there watching for thirty minutes. If your snake has new bites from the mouse I'd keep an eye on them and some diluted betadine solution to the wounds wouldn't hurt either.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ExotixTowing

OMFG \

After reading your last post, you need to list your snakes in the for sale section ASAP !!

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You remind me of my husband.

Calm down and READ my posts, why don't you?

This place isn't like a Petco; full of High school kids who have no knowledge about what they're selling. These people have been in the business for years and have always been highly recommended among peoria I know who have done business with them.

I took my snakes to them for two reasons. #1, To see what they had to say so that I could (A) see how their advice aligned with the online community and (B) see if they really didn't know anything about cannibalism between ball pythons, and #2, to hear what someone had to say who had actually laid their eyeballs on my snakes and not just seen a 400x600 pixel image on the Internet.

Do you honestly think I would be here and on 100 other sites reading up on if I didn't give ? Why should I blindly bow down and praise Allah for your advice when blindly trusting someone is what led me to house two snakes together in the first place?

If you want to help me, then help me cuz I'm all ears. But if you want to yell and be condescending, then it will all fall on deaf ears. I don't respond well to tantrums. Not even from my kids.


Daydreamer,
Now you've got me really wondering. They were sexed in front of me by 2 different guys. But you've planted a seed of doubt in me now. How should I get them sexed again? Should I take them to a vet?

As for whether she's really a super or if he's really a fire. I have spent hours comparing them to images of other BP morphs online and I am still at a loss. It's really hard for me to see the difference between a pastel and a super pastel online. I have found a lot of fires that look like Bogo. But I've also seen a lot that don't. There seems to be a wide range that fall under the same labels. So I will leave that all up to the experts to decide. I'll post some better pix here soon and let you all tell me if I got robbed or not. If the verdict is yes, somehow I still don't really care for myself. I never planned in breeding them anyway. And I never set out to get a super pastel and a fire. They were just the ones I liked the most. I enjoy watching them eat, grow and I enjoy caring for them. That's all.




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Here's a pic of Manasha again under her heat lamp. I seriously can't tell if she's a pastel or super pastel. With some snakes on the net, it's plain as night and day. And some others that look pastel are presented as super's so who knows. My brain hurts.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-K...DDF1B6E1C3.JPG

Judging from that picture it sure looks super to me. :gj:

Without being rude.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

You remind me of my husband.

God Bless him, you haven't listened to a thing mentioned to you here yet, I forward your advise "Read all the posts"

Calm down and READ my posts, why don't you?
I have

This place isn't like a Petco; full of High school kids who have no knowledge about what they're selling. These people have been in the business for years and have always been highly recommended among peoria I know who have done business with them.

I wouldn't class them any higher then petco/petsmart, as for how long they have been in business... Just browse here at the knowledge you have available at your finger tips.

I took my snakes to them for two reasons. #1, To see what they had to say so that I could (A) see how their advice aligned with the online community and (B) see if they really didn't know anything about cannibalism between ball pythons, and #2, to hear what someone had to say who had actually laid their eyeballs on my snakes and not just seen a 400x600 pixel image on the Internet.

You were advised here you more then likely had mites, yet you chose to take your possibly infested snakes to a place with other herps.... its not on them but you, lets look at the reasons if not them why they have a mite issue

Do you honestly think I would be here and on 100 other sites reading up on sh!t if I didn't give a - ? Why should I blindly bow down and praise Allah for your advice when blindly trusting someone is what led me to house two snakes together in the first place?

A simple google search turns up thousands of reasons Snakes should not be together, let alone the reasons you were shown here !!

If you want to help me, then help me cuz I'm all ears. But if you want to yell and be condescending, then it will all fall on deaf ears. I don't respond well to tantrums. Not even from my kids.

I/We have been doing nothing BUT trying to help you... read a little more into that and a little less into nit picking !



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Quote:

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Originally Posted by AK907

Judging from that picture it sure looks super to me. :gj:

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Awesome!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ExotixTowing

You remind me of my husband.

God Bless him, you haven't listened to a thing mentioned to you here yet, I forward your advise "Read all the posts"

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oh ... You really made me laugh out loud. But not in a disrespectful kind of way. I just know all too well the mentality of communities online who take their pets and animals in general so seriously that they get worked up.

No hard feelings tho... I just think we misunderstand each other which is why I said to *read* my posts.

I was already on the road (as I said) when you guys told me they were mites. I was at dinner with the family and, after that, we went straight to the reptile place. They were already with me, so I just left them in the car while I entered the store.

I did google online about snakes living together. I did this before I went to get the 2nd snake (the male). I went to the store and talked to them at length about the risks of them mating while they were too young... the female getting egg bound, etc.. I don't think the cannibalism actually came up. What I read online had to do with undersized females becoming eggbound. I almost rejected the male (when they told me it was a male) because I didn't want them to breed. I asked for a female. But they assured me that "it would be OK". And I believed them.

My husband would probably want to shake your hand.. and I would probably want to lock you out of the house too. that's all I'm saying. ;)

Seriously....

Its not taking our pets (Hobby) to seriously, its called being educated.

I have yet to fathom why you are driving around with your snakes, they are not a travelling type of pet, yet one that wants to be left alone in the security of there enclosure...

Being locked out of your home is fine by me..

but thinking about your mite issue... Would you send your kids to school with head lice ??

again, were not criticizing you, yet trying to educate you.. You just need to understand that

OK, probably should stay out of it, but I'll chime in:

-Male/Female and Super Pastel/Fire: You've stated your not breeding and your happy with the colour and pattern therefore it doesn't matter. Why not just let it be?

-Keeping them together: As previously stated, this should not be done. A simple obvious example, both your snakes know have mites, if kept separately, only one may have mites;

-Travelling with your snakes: Not recommended unless necessary;

-Seriousness: Buying an animal, and thus assuming responsibility for its welfare, is serious! I likely wouldn't recommended anyone purchase an animal if they aren't going to take its care seriously; and,

Growth: As previously stated, all BP grow differently. As suggested, get the scale and feed prey items in the 10% to 15% of your BP weight range.

So am I to assume by what you're telling me that if you had a sick animal that would rather be left alone, you would not take it to the vet because it doesn't like to be on a car ride? Give me a break! I was trying to get advice on them because I am worried that the female is not growing. NOT because I wanted to go on a joy ride with my snakes!
I wanted to take her to someone who saw what size she was in January, and can see what size she is today and CONFIRM that it's normal (which is exactly what happened) instead of taking the word of a group of people who had not done either. Nobody here even mentioned the possibility that she may have parasites.

And no, I would not send my snakes to school with lice. They're too young and don't fit their itty bitty backpacks yet.

A little too seriously, yes. Especially when you Ass-u-me that the person asking the questions hasn't done ANY research before getting a pet and doesn't take the care of their pet seriously simply because they are asking the question in the first place. I get they should not live together. I COMPREHEND it. No need to repeat it. You seem to be assuming that I am rejecting that tidbit of advice by the simple fact that it keeps getting repeated and each time more angrily still.

If all of you gurus knew everything, they why would this message board exist? Just because a person who was not a member yesterday, joins today to ask a series of questions, does not automatically put them in the Ignorant Impulse Buyer Know Nothing category. I do know a thing or two about reptiles. I had a bearded dragon for 10 years and I took good care of it. Thanks to my eagerness to learn about my pets and nonstop quest for more information. He lived 10 years and was well cared for. He got new bulbs every 6 months, he got fresh food every day, he got a good habitat and NEVER got sick. Despite never getting sick, I took him to the vet now and again just to make sure he was OK. Being as reptiles don't talk and all......

Don't preach to me about what is important. Don't assume I'm an idiot. Don't talk down to me.

If you truly want to help these animals you claim to love, then don't antagonize their owners. If you drive me away from this site, then the only thing that suffers is those snakes.

Actually, you know what ? Screw you hippies. I'll go back to that "other" herp site for my advice, thankyouverymuch.

Ciao!

Wow, impressive rant! Pretty sure I wrote travel isn't recommended "unless necessary". I'd be concerned if you don't consider taking an ill snake to the vet necessary.

I didn't think anyone's posts were overly harsh, especially mine, but OK, goodluck!

those poor snakes...:(

I've tried to resist chiming in on this thread ... but apparently I'm going to do it anyways.

I think the OP is being treated a little bit unfairly... First of all, they've stated that although they were originally told it was okay, they are going to listen to the advice on this site and put in a divider in the new tank for the snakes.

As for taking them to the store- is it ideal? Obviously not, but I've seen quite a few threads on this site where people have taken their BPs back to pet stores (Petco/Petsmart) for nothing other than a "visit." The OP took them to get a better informed opinion on an appropriate sized prey-item. And although posters said 10-15%, it was stated that the OP does not YET have a scale.

As a relatively new BP owner, I understand the conflict of "how big is too big." Even with a scale sometimes I feel uncertain, although I follow the 10-15% rule.

Obviously there have been some mistakes made here, but I don't feel that the OP has refused the advice given, or attacked any of the fellow posters. It seems that the OP wants to correct their mistakes, and help his/her pets thrive.

In my honest opinion, at least they are here seeking help.

Just my two cents.

People are being too hard on the OP, but the OP is being FAR too trusting of this local store that gave her dangerously bad advice, and sold her mite-infested snakes.

Honestly, no one has yet asked, 'where did the mites come from'? They probably had them when she got the snakes.

If they have mites, could they have other parasites? Yep. One possible explanation for the female's failure to grow is that she may have internal parasites. However, I think it's likely that they were simply being under-fed.

However, if they don't get their appetite back in a week or so of being cleared of mites, the parasite scenario should be considered.

Many ball pythons hate huge cages, so moving them into a split 75 gallon tank is completely inappropriate for this species. First, it's too large--these agoraphobic snakes spend most of their lives inside rodent burrows, and a lot of them refuse food when kept in a large enclosure. Second, keeping heat and humidity in a giant glass tank is an exercise in frustration. Ball pythons need 60% humidity, 80F air temperatures, and a 90F basking area. Warm, humid air rises...and floats right out of a mesh topped tank.

Please, stop taking advice from people who run a pet store and clearly believe they know what they're doing, because they've been getting away with it, but even more clearly DON'T have proper husbandry for their animals. They sold you snakes crawling with parasites. Why are you still listening to them? Just because someone has been doing things for a long time does not mean they've been doing them correctly.

For the record, I've spoken with a local herp store owner in my area who's personally witnessed ball python cannibalism. So, rare or not, it happens. When does it happen? Usually with hatchlings under one year of age. The smaller snake is definitely at risk.

The cannibal ball python I mentioned above survived and went on to eat rodents and do just fine. I also had personal experience, a couple of decades ago, with corn snakes--new hatchlings, right out of the egg. We were one bin short, so housed two of them together...a normal hatchling, and one that hatched with a missing eye.
They shed out, and the very next day, before they could be separated, suddenly there was only one fat snake in there....ironically, it was the one-eyed snake who ate its sibling. He also went on to thrive and was adopted out as a pet. His sibling was virtually the same size, but he had no problems digesting his overly large meal.

So, far from having time to worry about it later--this is the time you should worry about it most of all.

Also, every other reptile in your home may also have mites, now. Plan on treating everyone, if you have others.

Hey guys, just wanted to come back and apologize for blowing up. Whether it was deserved or not, I don't usually lose my cool over something like an online thread.

Anyways, I've been dealing with a live/death situation with 2 of my other pets (rabbits) and have been doing back and forth with the vet and trying to figure out what the best course of action is. I was a little on edge yesterday with the prospect of having to put down one of my rabbits , maybe both.

Anyways, I do appreciate the help I have gotten here. I am doing my best to head all the advice. Have already ordered the PAM. Will try to feed again today. So on and so forth.

I have 9 pets. I love animals. I do my best to keep them healthy and happy. I also have 2 human kids and try my best to teach them how animals should be treated.

That's all. I'll stick around if that's OK by everyone.

thanks.

They did not have mites when I bought them. It must have come either from the hoppers, or the bedding.

The herp store guy told me yesterday that changing out the bedding over mites was not necessary. Yea, I could tell by then that this guy is a little shady. Common sense tells me EVERYTHING needs to be disinfected and the bedding tossed. These snakes are literally crawling in mites.