who feeds in separate containers??

Just wondering what the ratio is between people who feed their snakes in their cages versus people who feed theirs in separate cages/ containers

I feed in their cages with no problems.


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I have one who refuses to eat in her tub, but other then that I don't see any reason not to feed in their tubs.

I don't, and of the three breeders in my area they all feed in the enclosure the live in, all told that is about 400 snakes. I have a WC girl (:mad: rescue) whom is so timid will not eat if she see me during offering. If I touched her she would never eat for a few days or more.

My point is not all snakes are pragmatic enough to tolerate handling before feeding and still feed. The best chance I have of a bite is during before or after feeding. Moving my most aggressive feeder on feeding day would be almost a sure way to get bit. Generally the thought of cage aggression is believed to be a myth. I am not saying there are no other reasons for separate tub feeding but not all snakes will feed after being moved.

I don't feed in a separate enclosure. There's zero benefit to doing so for me.

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I feed in the tub, and always have. I've never had an issue with cage aggression.

New owners think they need to feed in a separate tub so the snake doesn't start to associate their hand with feeding time. For some reason, the fear of getting bitten makes new owners think this is a logical thing to do. Here's my break down of that thought process:

1) You stick your hand in the enclosure to handle the snake for husbandry and such, right?...you stick your hand in the enclosure to move the snake to a feeding tub, right? How is the snake ever supposed to know the difference? If the snake is going to make associations, wouldn't it be with being picked up? Things that make you go hmmm...

2) Let's say you move your snake to a feeding tub and successfully feed him. Now you have to move a snake that's in feeding mode back to its regular enclosure. Tell me again how you don't want to have a snake associate your hand with feeding time :confused:

3) If you use long tongs or hemostats to introduce the prey (which is recommended) how can they associate food with your hand?

4) The two things that trigger the feeding response are scent and heat. So, don't smell like a rat, and you won't trigger a feeding strike.

I always feed in the same enclosure. My snakes are as docile and healthy as can be.

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I do not and will not feed in a separate container because on feeding day all of my snakes are ready to srtike at anything that comes near their tubs so I would surely be bitten.

I feed in a separate container. I only have one snake, and would rather clean the blood or feces from the prey item out of my rubbermaid feeding tub, than out of the enclosure my snake calls home.

I feed in the tub and havent ever had an issue other than a little blood or poo that can be spot cleaned later. If i moved my females on feeding day not only would it take alot longer to get everyone fed i would get bitten several times. If u only have 1 snake like spasticbeast it might be ok. But it all rests on the owner and what works best for your individual snake.

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Originally Posted by ballpythonluvr

I do not and will not feed in a separate container because on feeding day all of my snakes are ready to strike at anything that comes near their tubs so I would surely be bitten.

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This X 100 :snake:

I used to feed in a seperate enclosure but it would take too long so finally i just decided to feed them in their tanks. I quickly realized that they didnt care and it didnt matter either way. Still puppy dog tame.

We feed all of ours in their enclosures and have never had any issues.

When I first got back into herps I decided to get into Ball Pythons. I raised Veiled Chameleons for a number of years so it was not that big of a transition. Under the advice of two seperate PET STORES I fed my guy in a seperate container. BIGGEST MISTAKE was listneing the the pet store. Our little normal was a very problematic eater at best. He went off feed for 3 weeks when we first got him then ate good for a couple of months then back off feed for three months lost a lot of weight and was not looking good at all. Under the great advice I received from this forum :) I offered a live hopper mouse (thanks Lgray :) in his enclosure and he ate with out a problem. He is now a great eater in his enclosure and packing on the grams he is up to weanling rats and eats every week with out fail. We took in a rescue who was again being fed ina seperate container and same thing difficult at best to feed the only thing I changed was feeding her in her enclosure and she has gained 250g+ in the 6 months she has lived with us. My pied has never been fed out of her enclosure and she is an absolute pig only one refusal from her but she was in shed. I have only been bitten once and well that was my fault. The big normal girl ate 3 weenling rats (all I had at the time) and she would drag them into her hide to eat. SO I wanted to make sure they were all gone and when I reached into her enclosure she was still hungry and mistook my hand (which I am sure smelled like a rat) for food and struck she let go right away and has never struck at anyone again. S I ALWAY FEED in their enclosure have had absolutely no signs of cage agression and have actually tried to reproduce the one bite just to prove to myself she was just really hungry and well no one will strike at my hand even if I scent it with a rat before. So I guess what I am saying is if your are not a complete idiot like I was then there should be no issues with feeding in an enclosure and it seems to make the snake feel a lot more comfortable about eating :D

I feed in a separate tank, but when it comes to feeding time the snake is picked up with a snake hook. I have had a few bp's over the years; all of them where on live prey. With my new one's I have been putting them in a separate tank for feeding, and feeding f/t. It's been 12 years since I owned my last bp. Every time I switch tanks I sit, and think back to my last BP that I never switched tanks, and that snake was not aggressive. Not tank aggressive; nothing of the sorts. I can't believe that the care for BP's have changed that dramatically over the past 12 years. One thing I always do before handling my snakes is wash my hands. Every time. Maybe that is the secret of it all?? I dunno. Little off topic, but now I move to a separate enclosure to feed both my BP's. I have two in a 55-60 gallon cage with multiple hides, and basking branches. They get along great. Actually they share hides together.

Welcome to BP.net!

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Originally Posted by Seeker

I have two in a 55-60 gallon cage with multiple hides, and basking branches. They get along great. Actually they share hides together.

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I urge you to house your BPs in seperate enclosures. Housing them together is an accident waiting to happen.

They are not sharing a hide, they are competing for space and the prefered place to thermoregulate.

Normally I would advise against feeding in a serperate enclosure, but in your situation, it's probably when your snakes are the least stressed.

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Originally Posted by Seeker

They get along great. Actually they share hides together.

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Like slim said this is NOT a good idea. Honestly go get another enclosure ASAP. They are not sharing they are competing for turf. BP's prefer solitude.

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Originally Posted by Slim

Welcome to BP.net!



I urge you to house your BPs in seperate enclosures. Housing them together is an accident waiting to happen.

They are not sharing a hide, they are competing for space and the prefered place to thermoregulate.

Normally I would advise against feeding in a serperate enclosure, but in your situation, it's probably when your snakes are the least stressed.

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I'll also second what Slim has said. I have yet to read a single post from him that wasn't good advice or was inaccurate. :gj:

Im so happy that i fed him in his enclosure.. and he ate without a hitch. and its so much easier and healthier for him not having to worry about picking him up and stressing him out right after eating.. thank you everyone for the responces :gj:

I feed my ball python in a differnt tub... Idk if its just me but he seems to know that when I put him in the tub its to feed he doesn't go anywhere and he even gets into strikeing position and pationly waits for his meal.

Ok i got 2 chimes. Chime one. The need to feed in seperate containers is a ploy designed by petstores to sell more products. This is why its one of the things they tell you in the store. Total bs. There is no validity to it. Chime 2. As in captive settings it is not good to house 2 ball pythons together. Its not because they are loner anti social animals. Its because in an enclosure they are competing for everything. Alot of misconseption is that ball pythons are loner animals. In the wild they are found in large groups dug into termite mounds. This could be because prime real estate is hard to find or could be out of necessity or could actually be because they like it. In a captive setting when housing 2 or more together you have issues of health, competition, stress and other issues. Its always better to stack the odds in your favor keeping any animal in a captive setting.

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Originally Posted by snake lab

Chime 2. As in captive settings it is not good to house 2 ball pythons together. Its not because they are loner anti social animals. Its because in an enclosure they are competing for everything. A lot of misconception is that ball pythons are loner animals. In the wild they are found in large groups dug into termite mounds. This could be because prime real estate is hard to find or could be out of necessity or could actually be because they like it.

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Also the ball pythons in the wild have the option to get away from each other if they want to and if they're sharing even a 60 gallon enclosure they can't get far enough away from each other to be happy and still be warm and comfortable.

An unhappy ball python is a stressed ball python and a stressed ball python is a sick ball python. Sick ball pythons get RIs, regurge, and sometimes turn cannibalistic. It's much easier on you and them both if they're separate. If you can't afford a second enclosure you shouldn't have a second snake.

I feed in their enclosure, yes I do have a few big females that are super aggressive feeders that will come right out of their tubs trying to grab at anything with warmth (including me) but they're more the exception then the rule. And even then, they're fine once I get them out of their tubs and they realize they're not getting fed.

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Originally Posted by Slim

I feed in the tub, and always have. I've never had an issue with cage aggression.

New owners think they need to feed in a separate tub so the snake doesn't start to associate their hand with feeding time. For some reason, the fear of getting bitten makes new owners think this is a logical thing to do. Here's my break down of that thought process:

1) You stick your hand in the enclosure to handle the snake for husbandry and such, right?...you stick your hand in the enclosure to move the snake to a feeding tub, right? How is the snake ever supposed to know the difference? If the snake is going to make associations, wouldn't it be with being picked up? Things that make you go hmmm...

2) Let's say you move your snake to a feeding tub and successfully feed him. Now you have to move a snake that's in feeding mode back to its regular enclosure. Tell me again how you don't want to have a snake associate your hand with feeding time :confused:

3) If you use long tongs or hemostats to introduce the prey (which is recommended) how can they associate food with your hand?

4) The two things that trigger the feeding response are scent and heat. So, don't smell like a rat, and you won't trigger a feeding strike.

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I just wanted to add one last bit to this fantastic little list:

If the goal is to condition the snake to not associate its cage with food, the logical result of this is that the snake instead becomes conditioned that it ONLY eats when it is outside of its cage.
This means, what? Okay, so the snake doesn't bite you when its in the cage...but you have potentially conditioned your animal to more readily engage in a feeding response bite outside of the cage. The complete opposite of what this practice is intended, right?

Personally, if I have to pick where my snake ends up becoming aggressive, I'll pick the cage - at least there I can work with it, maneuver it, and deal with it. A snake that potentially can associate a traveling box with feeding, or a tub, or a soaking container, or just being out...that is much more unpredictable, and if you are working with another, larger species, potentially even dangerous.

I feed all of my snakes at home in their cages/tubs, personally. Haven't been bitten at home in years. :)

-Jen

Thank you Jen.. I really feel i did the right thing now by feeding him in his cage. especially since your affiliated with the company where i bought my baby ball . And by the way the baby pastel i got from LLL reptile is fantastic looking and great personality.. Its already starting to show since we've received him last week..

Also.....Ive been ordrering from your company ( Tree Frogs, Beardies, and Snakes) for the last 13 years... Very proud customer

i dont feel that feeding in cages affects a snakes attitude so i feed in their cage

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Originally Posted by cowbully

Thank you Jen.. I really feel i did the right thing now by feeding him in his cage. especially since your affiliated with the company where i bought my baby ball . And by the way the baby pastel i got from LLL reptile is fantastic looking and great personality.. Its already starting to show since we've received him last week..

Also.....Ive been ordrering from your company ( Tree Frogs, Beardies, and Snakes) for the last 13 years... Very proud customer

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Woohoo! Not just affiliated...posting from the "official" LLL account! ;) As the staff member with the most personal experience keeping and breeding ball pythons, I get the oh-so-arduous task of posting to the bp.net forum...Oh darn!

I'm glad your baby pastel is settling in already, and you've enjoyed all your previous orders. 13 years - you've been ordering from the company almost as long as we've been open! That's super cool to hear from a long time customer. Thanks so much for the kind words, these kinds of posts make it all worthwhile!!

Happy Herping! :)

-Jen

I feed all of mine in their enclosures. For me to try and move my boas once they are in feed mode is not what I would call a pleasant experience...

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Quetzal eats in his enclosure as well :3 Take his hide off, do the zombie mouse dance at him, wait for him to simmer down, put the hide back in, and voila~ Content, full snake and no cage aggression. He's bitten me once, when he was already out of his cage, and that was directly after I had walked my sister's dogs.

I feed all three of mine in a sep tub. They live in a 40 gal terrarium, I take one out at a time and feed them. When I am done feeding one, I wash my hands and reach in to grab the snake and place it back in its normal everyday enclosure. I have never been struck at by either 3 of my ball pythons.

Before I knew better I used to. Now I feed right in there rack. No real issues with it. saves a boat load of time with 30+ snakes

i feed them in a separate enclosure so they dont mistaken me for a hopper!! ;)

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Originally Posted by cherob1984

I feed all three of mine in a sep tub. They live in a 40 gal terrarium, I take one out at a time and feed them. When I am done feeding one, I wash my hands and reach in to grab the snake and place it back in its normal everyday enclosure. I have never been struck at by either 3 of my ball pythons.

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I swear people just come on here to push our buttons :giggle:

Digging up an old kinda controversial thread and then talking about your 3 ball pythons living in a tank all happy together?

Whatever your reasons are for keeping them together, I guarantee you it is an accident waiting to happen. Why risk the well being of your pets by keeping them together?

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Originally Posted by kayrussell

i feed them in a separate enclosure so they dont mistaken me for a hopper!! ;)

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Please, educate me on how that would happen? By moving to another enclosure you are just giving your snake more opportunities to bite you. What does the enclosure have to do with how your hand smells?

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Originally Posted by Slim

2) Let's say you move your snake to a feeding tub and successfully feed him. Now you have to move a snake that's in feeding mode back to its regular enclosure. Tell me again how you don't want to have a snake associate your hand with feeding time :confused:

3) If you use long tongs or hemostats to introduce the prey (which is recommended) how can they associate food with your hand?

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I think that it's less of an association with a hand and more of an association with the opening of the cage something entering it (Hand, food, etc.)

More of a "Something is coming in, that means food." rather than a "I see hands when I am going to get food so these must be food."

Like how Pavlov's dogs associated the bell ringing with food, not just seeing the hand that rings the bell.

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Originally Posted by mackynz

I think that it's less of an association with a hand and more of an association with the opening of the cage something entering it (Hand, food, etc.)

More of a "Something is coming in, that means food." rather than a "I see hands when I am going to get food so these must be food."

Like how Pavlov's dogs associated the bell ringing with food, not just seeing the hand that rings the bell.

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The point is, there is no association. Ball pythons associate the smell of rodents with being fed, not the smell of your hand. They are primarily smell driven.

I stick my hand in my snakes enclosure nearly every day except for feeding day. Only been bitten once, and that was when I was removing an uneaten rodent from a tub.

I think this is the difference of general practice between all pro snake keepers and hard headed newbies. Almost all of the experience snake keepers and breeders feed in the same enclosures and keep their snakes separate from each other. :P
I am a newbie but not hard headed one. The funniest ideas came from those people with cats and dogs and had very little experience with snakes. They see dogs and cats are happy to cuddle, play and run, so snakes will be the same way as dogs and cats!!!! :rolleye2:
I want my snake to be less aggressive when I or other people are handling. People handle their snake outside of the cage not inside the cage. so, here is the educated question. If there is a thing called cage aggression, do you want your snake to be aggressive inside the cage or outside of the cage when you or other people handle the snake? Remember, people handle their snake outside of the cage. :gj:

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Originally Posted by mackynz

I think that it's less of an association with a hand and more of an association with the opening of the cage something entering it (Hand, food, etc.)

More of a "Something is coming in, that means food." rather than a "I see hands when I am going to get food so these must be food."

Like how Pavlov's dogs associated the bell ringing with food, not just seeing the hand that rings the bell.

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Since I'm going into the enclosures all the time, there's no reason for them to assume I'm feeding them every time.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Since I'm going into the enclosures all the time, there's no reason for them to assume I'm feeding them every time.

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And feeding isn't the thing that most excites yours? Isn't the thing it would be looking for when noticing someone entering the cage?


I am not trying to say they will associate it as a fact, it's all really up in the air. Maybe I'll try conditioning mine and get back to you guys ;)

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Originally Posted by mackynz

And feeding isn't the thing that most excites yours? Isn't the thing it would be looking for when noticing someone entering the cage?


I am not trying to say they will associate it as a fact, it's all really up in the air. Maybe I'll try conditioning mine and get back to you guys ;)

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I don't understand what the argument is here; are you still trying to say that the numerous breeders and folks with extensive experience are all mistaken in feeding their snakes in their enclosures?

I feel the point was clearly made early on in the thread with Slim's post, and then a handful of add ons from other experienced keepers, myself included. Why keep beating a dead horse?

-Jen

I was just trying to say that I think that people who believe feeding in their cage is a bad idea probably think it's an association with with anything entering the cage, rather than the hand itself. I wasn't trying to prove him wrong or anything.

The latter part was intended as a joke, about attempting to train my snake.

Nevermind :(

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Originally Posted by cherob1984

I feed all three of mine in a sep tub. They live in a 40 gal terrarium, I take one out at a time and feed them. When I am done feeding one, I wash my hands and reach in to grab the snake and place it back in its normal everyday enclosure. I have never been struck at by either 3 of my ball pythons.

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Originally Posted by kayrussell

i feed them in a separate enclosure so they dont mistaken me for a hopper!! ;)

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I wish you both the best of luck in all your future endeavors. Have a great summer, see you next year. Maybe we'll have home room together again.

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Originally Posted by mackynz

Like how Pavlov's dogs associated the bell ringing with food, not just seeing the hand that rings the bell.

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Pavlov's dog had a brain about the size of a small orange. The smartest BP on the planet has a brain about the size of a small black eyed pea.

Larger brains make associations. Smaller brains react to stimuli, like the smell and heat signature from a rodent.

I'm really starting to get the impression that some of you new guys look and smell like rats. Might want to have that checked ;)

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Originally Posted by Slim

Pavlov's dog had a brain about the size of a small orange. The smartest BP on the planet has a brain about the size of a small black eyed pea.

Larger brains make associations. Smaller brains react to stimuli, like the smell and heat signature from a rodent.

I'm really starting to get the impression that some of you new guys look and smell like rats. Might want to have that checked ;)

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I didn't mean they have the thought power of a dog haha.

And you indeed caught me. It is I, Splinter from TMNT.

Quote Originally Posted by ballpythonluvr View Post
"I do not and will not feed in a separate container because on feeding day all of my snakes are ready to strike at anything that comes near their tubs so I would surely be bitten."
"This X 100"

I have seen a lot of people say this. That on feeding day putting their hand in their hungry snakes tub would "surely" get them bitten. I don't think this is cage agression at all. I think it is simply that when the snake is hungry he is looking for food to come into his enclosure and a heat signature is one of the things that identifies a prey item, and a good enough reason to strike. I disagree that is it an association of "hand in tub = food" but something more like "hungry and I eat here normally = time to eat".
I only have one snake and he will eat out of his enclosure so I have no problem moving him. A prey item has never entered his enclosure so I'm hopoing he will never mistake my hand for food when he is hungry (in his enclosure).
In his feeding box is a different matter. When he is in his feeding box he is coiled and just waiting for a prey item. His box smells like rats and he definitely associates the box to food and eating. I DO have to be careful to not get bit after he has eaten when I move him back, but this is the only time I ever have to be cautious when I go to pick him up.
Snakes have a brain the size of a pea. I don't think they have a strict list of criteria to meet before they strike when they are hungry.
I am not afraid to be bitten, I'm sure it barely hurts, like everyone says, but I don't want to be anticipating a bite at anytime when I'm putting my hand in his enclosure. Although it has never happened and I hope it never will I expect I will be bitten somehow, at some point, in my snake's 20-30 year lifespan. Until then I am going to do what I can to minimize the chance of that happening.

Well,

I'm a new guy and I mean brand new to the forum, some would call me old as far as age goes LOL!

First off, this is a great post because I'm here with my son's (our) 1st snake ever. She was fed before leaving the store and we've yet to feed.

The owner of the reptile store, who'd I'd call an expert said exactly what the experts on here are saying. "feed in the tank". He's got about every type of python, boa, king, corn, milk and whatever else there is in the snake world, plus huge lizards. Its like a zoo : )

It's advice I'm going to follow. I think I'll have good luck with it and if I have any chance of switching from live to F/T'd it will be done in her tank.

It will take a lot of guess work out of the process and make things easier.

I was glad to hear most here fed in the tank. However, no knock on people doing what works for them, I'm a newbie so what do I know.

But thanks for the great thread.

Ball pythons are not cage aggressive, as demonstrated by the fact that they will allow you to move them to a separate enclosure. With a truly cage-aggressive snake such as a boa, the prospect of moving the snake for feeding day is laughable. On feeding day I open my boa cages with a snake hook; they start striking madly at the cage opening as soon as they see movement. Would I like to try to pick one up while they're in food mode? I think I'll pass. :rofl:


In other words, if your ball python will let you move it to a separate container when it smells food, you don't need to worry about cage aggression, and moving them is pointless.

So if you are on a good scheduled the snakes won't be cage aggressive if you feed them in their enclosure?

I feed in a separate tank just so I can do maintenance. I feed once a week, so I use feeding time to get the snake out of the cage and do weekly maintenance. She doesn't seem to mind and it makes it easier for me.

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Originally Posted by copperarabian

So if you are on a good scheduled the snakes won't be cage aggressive if you feed them in their enclosure?

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They will not become cage aggressive no matter what kind of schedule you feed them on.

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Originally Posted by Slim

They will not become cage aggressive no matter what kind of schedule you feed them on.

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My mind has just gone through a 180 of what I previously though of ball python feeding O.O That's amazing, thankyou :)

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Originally Posted by mackynz

I was just trying to say that I think that people who believe feeding in their cage is a bad idea probably think it's an association with with anything entering the cage, rather than the hand itself. I wasn't trying to prove him wrong or anything.

The latter part was intended as a joke, about attempting to train my snake.

Nevermind :(

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I'm not a him......

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