Crap!! Even shipping IN state will end up crossing state lines!!

Read this thread.. A member at burm junkies figured out that all express packages shipped to an address within your own state are still taken out of state to the hub before returning. Breeders/sellers of the banned species are up a creek no matter what. No shipping of Burms, Condas, and Af Rocks unless you're in TNN.

http://www.burmesepythonforums.com/s...d.php?tid=7097


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I never thought about that. Crazy. I guess everyone will have buy at shows or drive to get them.

Seems silly to ban shipping only to have people drive across state lines lol. Hm, too bad im not more experienced, lucky for me my balls are still legal :D haha

So lets say I wanted to ship to you Monica... You're a meer two hours away.. it STILL gets shipped out of state?!!??! REALLY?!?!? :confused::confused:

I feel if they make a law like that, they should either just say no shipping, or make a way to ship snakes in state
Its like there begging for loopholes haha

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Originally Posted by serpent fan

Seems silly to ban shipping only to have people drive across state lines lol. Hm, too bad im not more experienced, lucky for me my balls are still legal :D haha

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You can't drive across state lines. now are they going to catch you doing so? Probably not but if they do...

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Originally Posted by serpent fan

lucky for me my balls are still legal :D haha

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For now.......

...is there some anti ball python law im not familiar with ?!? Now im skurred

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Originally Posted by serpent fan

...is there some anti ball python law im not familiar with ?!? Now im skurred

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no, but there are constantly new bills being brought up that potentially could effect BP's. At the City, County, State, and even national level we as reptile owners are under attack. It really is terrible once you realize what is actually going on with our government.

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Originally Posted by serpent fan

...is there some anti ball python law im not familiar with ?!? Now im skurred

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Plenty of it state to state..National... Not yet.... They'll be trying though.... Until something stands up to Lacey act.....

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Originally Posted by zeion97

So lets say I wanted to ship to you Monica... You're a meer two hours away.. it STILL gets shipped out of state?!!??! REALLY?!?!? :confused::confused:

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Yep.. Because it would be sent down to TNN that night and come back here.. Stupid huh.

I think they should make an exception for that seeing as how the address the snake left from and the address it's going to would both clearly be in the same state.

Can't win for losin.


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Technicaly your shipping it within the state you live. it is not you on that the package goes out of state before it comes back to your state. form 987 s nowhere street houston tx to 123 somewhere street Dallas TX. you still shipped to your state. Fedex is the ones that are taking it out of state but it is not like the package is leaving there care. This should not affect you by law.

Put it to you this way. If you are on greyhound you are not allowed to consume alcholic beverages. this includes you being on layover for 4 hours leaving the terminal going to a bar and buying a beer and coming back to the terminal. My mom worked for fedex and she said once a package is shipped where it goes to before its destination is out of the hands of the shipper, and reciever. as long as it does not leave that fedex facility to someone elses care you are clear.

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Originally Posted by crepers86

Technicaly your shipping it within the state you live. it is not you on that the package goes out of state before it comes back to your state. form 987 s nowhere street houston tx to 123 somewhere street Dallas TX. you still shipped to your state. Fedex is the ones that are taking it out of state but it is not like the package is leaving there care. This should not affect you by law.

Put it to you this way. If you are on greyhound you are not allowed to consume alcholic beverages. this includes you being on layover for 4 hours leaving the terminal going to a bar and buying a beer and coming back to the terminal. My mom worked for fedex and she said once a package is shipped where it goes to before its destination is out of the hands of the shipper, and reciever. as long as it does not leave that fedex facility to someone elses care you are clear.

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This is something I wouldn't test though.. If FedEx happened to get hit with a felony charge, or if they find out that there is a possibility of it now, they may stop shipping reptiles altogether. Many shippers only write the species name on the inside flap but not on the outside of the box. Some boxes ARE opened for inspection. I've seen threads elsewhere about this. Why risk it? Especially since now everyone is fully aware that the package will be leaving the state. It's been posted on the reptile report before I put it here which means every reptile owner on Facebook is now aware. Which also means that if you ship a burm even within your state, you are doing it knowing that it will cross state lines during the trip. You're still knowingly breaking the law.




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They can have my BPs right after they take my guns...and that, my friends, will be an E-Ticket ride ;)

These are good questions for SYR, hopefully they will see this thread and give some input.

I sent Robyn a message on FB. Hopefully he can get us some more info on this.


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Given the unusual and specific nature of this inquiry, I am going to get official confirmation on this. Should have it tomorrow : )

My guess is that Fed-Ex will just not allow the shipping of those species. Just like they don't allow the shipping of venomous. They are going to protect themselves legally.

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Originally Posted by Robyn@SYR

Given the unusual and specific nature of this inquiry, I am going to get official confirmation on this. Should have it tomorrow : )

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Thanks Robyn. You're awesome!


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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

This is something I wouldn't test though.. If FedEx happened to get hit with a felony charge, or if they find out that there is a possibility of it now, they may stop shipping reptiles altogether. Many shippers only write the species name on the inside flap but not on the outside of the box. Some boxes ARE opened for inspection. I've seen threads elsewhere about this. Why risk it? Especially since now everyone is fully aware that the package will be leaving the state. It's been posted on the reptile report before I put it here which means every reptile owner on Facebook is now aware. Which also means that if you ship a burm even within your state, you are doing it knowing that it will cross state lines during the trip. You're still knowingly breaking the law.




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Threads on a forum do not constitute knowledge. The fact still remains that you are mailing a package to be delivered intrastate. You are not willfully breaking a law. It will boil down to 2 problems. FedEx and others will simply stop accepting snakes for delivery or you run the risk of the package being inspected and the snakes being confiscated. Even if the package is inspected and the snakes are confiscated, personally I wouldnt worry about legal problems, just being out money or snakes.

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Originally Posted by Kyle7676

Threads on a forum do not constitute knowledge. The fact still remains that you are mailing a package to be delivered intrastate. You are not willfully breaking a law. It will boil down to 2 problems. FedEx and others will simply stop accepting snakes for delivery or you run the risk of the package being inspected and the snakes being confiscated. Even if the package is inspected and the snakes are confiscated, personally I wouldnt worry about legal problems, just being out money or snakes.

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The problem with getting caught, this way or any other, is that if the media gets its claws into it, the article will read something like
" ... black market... Smuggling.... Trafficking... of Snakes in the pet industry"
and give more ammo for all the anti-snake laws that are being pushed now.

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Originally Posted by Maixx

The problem with getting caught, this way or any other, is that if the media gets its claws into it, the article will read something like
" ... black market... Smuggling.... Trafficking... of Snakes in the pet industry"
and give more ammo for all the anti-snake laws that are being pushed now.

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Im as cynical as the next guy but I think thats a stretch. This isnt that big of a media issue to be honest. Outside some circles, this is a non-issue ( media wise ). Had I not read it on here, I would have never known it passed. I watch and read the news regularly and have seen no mention of it. Granted, in some states im sure its much more of a hot topic than other states. Personally, I just dont see this being an issue that the media really picks up and runs with even if a few snakes gets confiscated, especially if they are being shipped properly.

Really, I think this is going to be a non issue because I cant imagine FedEx continuing to ship snakes if their processing centers are setup like it has been said they are. I think the real issue is going to be them banning ALL shipping of reptiles. That would be the easiest way for them to solve any shipping issues.

Of course this is all conjecture at this point. Who knows how this is going to play out.

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Originally Posted by Kyle7676

Threads on a forum do not constitute knowledge. The fact still remains that you are mailing a package to be delivered intrastate. You are not willfully breaking a law. It will boil down to 2 problems. FedEx and others will simply stop accepting snakes for delivery or you run the risk of the package being inspected and the snakes being confiscated. Even if the package is inspected and the snakes are confiscated, personally I wouldnt worry about legal problems, just being out money or snakes.

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You really think your train of thought would stand up in a Federal Court?:confused: And, even if it did work out that you, as the shipper, aren't responsible for the animal being transported across state lines it is still a violation of The Lacey Act. If it turns out that Fedex would be the one responsible; it's irresponsible comments like your's that could possibly put shipping of snakes or even reptiles as a whole at risk!
Our hobby already faces an uphill climb with the additions to The Lacey Act and all of the State and Local legislation that we are facing! We don't need people doing more stupid/irresponsible stuff that can and will put more pressure on us.

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Originally Posted by Kyle7676

Im as cynical as the next guy but I think thats a stretch. This isnt that big of a media issue to be honest. Outside some circles, this is a non-issue ( media wise ). Had I not read it on here, I would have never known it passed. I watch and read the news regularly and have seen no mention of it. Granted, in some states im sure its much more of a hot topic than other states. Personally, I just dont see this being an issue that the media really picks up and runs with even if a few snakes gets confiscated, especially if they are being shipped properly.

Really, I think this is going to be a non issue because I cant imagine FedEx continuing to ship snakes if their processing centers are setup like it has been said they are. I think the real issue is going to be them banning ALL shipping of reptiles. That would be the easiest way for them to solve any shipping issues.

Of course this is all conjecture at this point. Who knows how this is going to play out.

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Not that big of an issue outside of certain circles?? Are you forgetting the largest influence the laws and bans have? The biggest supporter both financial and political??

The HSUS!

Just let those (fish turds) get ahold of a story of someone shipping a burm within their state and it going to TNN for a few hours...

It just is not worth the risk..

Let's wait until Robyn gets back to us on this.. He is on good terms with FedEx and knows who to talk to. Hopefully he will get us some answers.


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Originally Posted by C&H Exotic Morphs

You really think your train of thought would stand up in a Federal Court?:confused: And, even if it did work out that you, as the shipper, aren't responsible for the animal being transported across state lines it is still a violation of The Lacey Act. If it turns out that Fedex would be the one responsible; it's irresponsible comments like your's that could possibly put shipping of snakes or even reptiles as a whole at risk!
Our hobby already faces an uphill climb with the additions to The Lacey Act and all of the State and Local legislation that we are facing! We don't need people doing more stupid/irresponsible stuff that can and will put more pressure on us.

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I think without a doubt my logic would stand up in court. YOU are not responsible for what fedex does with your package once you give it to them. YOU are shipping a snake IN STATE as the law mandates. Also, I stand by what I said about reading something on a forum does not constitute knowledge on an issue. ( obviously there are exceptions but none which apply in this situation ).

Im confused though, what exactly did I suggest doing that would be irresponsible or stupid ? I clearly stated that I dont think the shipping would be an issue because I imagine FedEx is on top of this and is probably already working on some type of solution, whether it be not accepting snakes or rerouting packages. I could care less if people still try to ship or not. If they choose to that is their choice.

Really, I was just weighing in on the legal issues. I have zero interest in the larger snakes and have zero worries that this will work its way down to ball pythons.


EDIT :

Let me add this... The reason this law was passed is because of the overhyped stories about large snakes decimating the Florida wildlife. This isnt about a small ball python getting loose and biting someone. Heck, there have been several deaths from larger snakes and still not much in the way of legislation. Take away the burms in Florida and this bill would have never been introduced. THIS is why I have zero worries about this trickling down to all snakes like several of you on here believe it will.

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Originally Posted by Kyle7676

Really, I was just weighing in on the legal issues. I have zero interest in the larger snakes and have zero worries that this will work its way down to ball pythons.

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This right here is our biggest problem... The (It'll never happen to me) way of thinking.. We should all support each other. No matter what pets we have. CT just banned the big pythons along with monitors, some amphibians, and Quaker (monk) parakeets.. I use to own a Quaker years ago. They are smallish parrots with huge personalities and they talk. Amazing birds and very popular pets..

I support ALL pet owners. Knowing the evil behind the HSUS and the fact that they have every media outlet and politician in their millionaire back pocket should be enough for anyone to NOT recommend doing anything that would cause bad press for us.




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Really, I was just weighing in on the legal issues. I have zero interest in the larger snakes and have zero worries that this will work its way down to ball pythons.


EDIT :

Let me add this... The reason this law was passed is because of the overhyped stories about large snakes decimating the Florida wildlife. This isnt about a small ball python getting loose and biting someone. Heck, there have been several deaths from larger snakes and still not much in the way of legislation. Take away the burms in Florida and this bill would have never been introduced. THIS is why I have zero worries about this trickling down to all snakes like several of you on here believe it will.

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There are states that have "all reptile" bans going through legislation, and even if its not your home state, with every one of these that passes, it sets a precedent making the next one that much harder to beat.
So yes your bp's could end up eventually being at risk too.

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

This right here is our biggest problem... The (It'll never happen to me) way of thinking.. We should all support each other. No matter what pets we have. CT just banned the big pythons along with monitors, some amphibians, and Quaker (monk) parakeets.. I use to own a Quaker years ago. They are smallish parrots with huge personalities and they talk. Amazing birds and very popular pets..

I support ALL pet owners. Knowing the evil behind the HSUS and the fact that they have every media outlet and politician in their millionaire back pocket should be enough for anyone to NOT recommend doing anything that would cause bad press for us.




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Originally Posted by Maixx

There are states that have "all reptile" bans going through legislation, and even if its not your home state, with every one of these that passes, it sets a precedent making the next one that much harder to beat.
So yes your bp's could end up eventually being at risk too.

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IF that happens ( I think that is a HUGE stretch and am not really worried about it ) then I will deal with it. WHEN it happens.

ALL I was doing from the beginning was simply pointing out that some of your " logic " and forum gossiping was off mark. That and I STILL dont get what press you people are talking about ?!? Other than here and other snake forums, there has been no press. My god, I went back and searched the WSJ and other larger news sites and found NOTHING on this. I havent even seen a blip on any news channels. Maybe my search skills suck and I have just changed the channels at the exact wrong moment.

Honestly though, the government could confiscate thousands of large snakes tomorrow and nobody would care ( except the herp community ). I would be willing to bet my truck that you could ask 100 random strangers whats going on with large snakes right now and you wouldnt get 5 that could answer it. ( of course you could ask those same 100 people how many stars were on the US flag and the numbers wouldnt be much higher ).

Sorry if I came off insensitive earlier. Like I said, for the herp community, this IS a big deal. This could hurt / kill thousands of snakes. Destroy income for who knows how many people. Outside the herp community though, nobody knows whats going on... and sadly, probably doesnt care.

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Originally Posted by Kyle7676

I think without a doubt my logic would stand up in court. YOU are not responsible for what fedex does with your package once you give it to them. YOU are shipping a snake IN STATE as the law mandates. Also, I stand by what I said about reading something on a forum does not constitute knowledge on an issue. ( obviously there are exceptions but none which apply in this situation ).

Im confused though, what exactly did I suggest doing that would be irresponsible or stupid ? I clearly stated that I dont think the shipping would be an issue because I imagine FedEx is on top of this and is probably already working on some type of solution, whether it be not accepting snakes or rerouting packages. I could care less if people still try to ship or not. If they choose to that is their choice.

Really, I was just weighing in on the legal issues. I have zero interest in the larger snakes and have zero worries that this will work its way down to ball pythons.


EDIT :

Let me add this... The reason this law was passed is because of the overhyped stories about large snakes decimating the Florida wildlife. This isnt about a small ball python getting loose and biting someone. Heck, there have been several deaths from larger snakes and still not much in the way of legislation. Take away the burms in Florida and this bill would have never been introduced. THIS is why I have zero worries about this trickling down to all snakes like several of you on here believe it will.

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You may or may not be correct about the first part of your post; whether or not you are responsible for what Fedex does with your package once you give it to them. We will find out more about this when Robyn@SYR gets back to us.
To the next part, your logic is very far off base. You DO NOT have to know about a law to be breaking it! So even if someone has a single pet burm and has to move to another state, but has never heard of the addition of burms to The Lacey Act they will still be breaking the law and held responsible for it if they are caught.
The stupid/irresponsible comment is fairly easy to understand. Making a comment that since you won't be responsible for Fedex transporting a Lacey Act animal across state lines it's not that big of a deal for you as the shipper. It is a huge deal, Fedex is one of the last ways for us to be able to ship our animals across the country and if they decided to stop shipping snakes or reptiles because of something like this it would destroy OUR amazing hobby!
As for the last part I completely agree with Maixx and Foshi. We as a community need to stand together in this. Whether you have a single corn snake or 100's of BPs, Boas, Burmeses and Retics. People need to stop thinking that it won't effect them and not caring. And start supporting all other pet owners.

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Originally Posted by Kyle7676

ALL I was doing from the beginning was simply pointing out that some of your " logic " and forum gossiping was off mark. That and I STILL dont get what press you people are talking about ?!? Other than here and other snake forums, there has been no press. My god, I went back and searched the WSJ and other larger news sites and found NOTHING on this. I havent even seen a blip on any news channels. Maybe my search skills suck and I have just changed the channels at the exact wrong moment.

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I agree, I shouldn't have said media in the general. But this is the kind of event that opponents of the herp community use in their propaganda to support the anti-snake laws that they are trying to push. As we have seen with many other negative events or accidents that their spin doctors have used to exaggerate, they might turn one person breaking this law into a "black market" scenario trying to make us all look bad.

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Originally Posted by C&H Exotic Morphs

You may or may not be correct about the first part of your post; whether or not you are responsible for what Fedex does with your package once you give it to them. We will find out more about this when Robyn@SYR gets back to us.
To the next part, your logic is very far off base. You DO NOT have to know about a law to be breaking it! So even if someone has a single pet burm and has to move to another state, but has never heard of the addition of burms to The Lacey Act they will still be breaking the law and held responsible for it if they are caught.
The stupid/irresponsible comment is fairly easy to understand. Making a comment that since you won't be responsible for Fedex transporting a Lacey Act animal across state lines it's not that big of a deal for you as the shipper. It is a huge deal, Fedex is one of the last ways for us to be able to ship our animals across the country and if they decided to stop shipping snakes or reptiles because of something like this it would destroy OUR amazing hobby!
As for the last part I completely agree with Maixx and Foshi. We as a community need to stand together in this. Whether you have a single corn snake or 100's of BPs, Boas, Burmeses and Retics. People need to stop thinking that it won't effect them and not caring. And start supporting all other pet owners.

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Slow down hoss ... I NEVER said ignorance of the law was a defense. I think you need to go back and reread everything that has been said, specifically the parts where people actually brought knowledge of the law from forum posts up. Better yet, before you question someone's logic, make sure you actually understand what it is you have read.

As far as the stupid / irresponsible comment ( I still have no clue what specific thing i said you are talking about but whatever ) - do you TRULY believe that FedEx hasnt been aware of this since this legislation was introduced ? LMAO - what do you think is going to happen exactly ? They arent going to find out about this addition to the Lacey Act til a month or 2 down the road when someone tries to ship a burm and then blow up and say no to all reptiles ? You cant be serious ....

FedEx is a huge company. They will make the decision based on what is best for their bottom $$ not because someone tried to sell a burm from FL to FL through their system. Google " shipping wine through FedEx ". Dont you think they know all the little tricks ? Yet people still do it. And they still allow it. If shipping reptiles is going to be too much of a hassle for them right now, they will stop. If they think they can make it work, they wont stop. Its that simple.

Believing that a forum has anything to do with it is just :confused::confused::confused:

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Originally Posted by Maixx

I agree, I shouldn't have said media in the general. But this is the kind of event that opponents of the herp community use in their propaganda to support the anti-snake laws that they are trying to push. As we have seen with many other negative events or accidents that their spin doctors have used to exaggerate, they might turn one person breaking this law into a "black market" scenario trying to make us all look bad.

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Yes. Im sure that a spin doctor could put this wild and crazy spin on someone shipping a snake from Orlando FL to Jacksonville FL as a black market situation because FedEx's van drove outside the state line for a few hours. Absolutely... I can see MSNBC, CNBC, FOX, and all the rest gearing up to have HSUS and PETA reps lined up for this breaking story...

I know some people hate the media and thats fine. But my god, I dont care HOW bad you THINK they are, this is not a story even for them.

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Originally Posted by serpent fan

...is there some anti ball python law im not familiar with ?!? Now im skurred

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If you didn't care enough to make a loud noise about the big constrictors - who's going to make a loud noise for your ball pythons?

Yes, HSUS and PETA are trying to ball ALL exotics, not just the big constrictors. It started with the big constrictors, and anyone who sits back and feels like they have nothing to worry about is about to have a rude awakening.

This battle has only JUST begun. They got their big constrictors, now they'll be coming after the smaller reptiles - bet on it.

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Originally Posted by Kyle7676

THIS is why I have zero worries about this trickling down to all snakes like several of you on here believe it will.

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Keep on ostriching.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kyle7676

Threads on a forum do not constitute knowledge. The fact still remains that you are mailing a package to be delivered intrastate. You are not willfully breaking a law. It will boil down to 2 problems. FedEx and others will simply stop accepting snakes for delivery or you run the risk of the package being inspected and the snakes being confiscated. Even if the package is inspected and the snakes are confiscated, personally I wouldnt worry about legal problems, just being out money or snakes.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kyle7676

Slow down hoss ... I NEVER said ignorance of the law was a defense. I think you need to go back and reread everything that has been said, specifically the parts where people actually brought knowledge of the law from forum posts up. Better yet, before you question someone's logic, make sure you actually understand what it is you have read.

As far as the stupid / irresponsible comment ( I still have no clue what specific thing i said you are talking about but whatever ) - do you TRULY believe that FedEx hasnt been aware of this since this legislation was introduced ? LMAO - what do you think is going to happen exactly ? They arent going to find out about this addition to the Lacey Act til a month or 2 down the road when someone tries to ship a burm and then blow up and say no to all reptiles ? You cant be serious ....

FedEx is a huge company. They will make the decision based on what is best for their bottom $$ not because someone tried to sell a burm from FL to FL through their system. Google " shipping wine through FedEx ". Dont you think they know all the little tricks ? Yet people still do it. And they still allow it. If shipping reptiles is going to be too much of a hassle for them right now, they will stop. If they think they can make it work, they wont stop. Its that simple.

Believing that a forum has anything to do with it is just :confused::confused::confused:

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No problem! I went back and reread and there it is, second post. It used to be that there had to be intent present to commit a crime. The government realized they could prosecute many, many more people by stripping out the intent requirement and did so. Try depositing 10,000k cash into your bank account without documentation. Just because you didn't "willfully break the law" won't stop you from becoming a felon.

There is no defense in a case against the government. This isn't a logic or philosophy college course. The gov't could care less what your excuse...logic... reason is. If a snake belonging to you goes across state lines, they can prosecute you. Doesn't matter if you try to pin it on Fed Ex.

I suspect Fed Ex won't even know for 100% until a case goes to court. I also seriously doubt that Fed Ex allows people to illegally ship wine as you suggest to make an extra couple bucks off shipping. It's an absurd notion they turn a blind eye to it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jabberwocky Dragons

No problem! I went back and reread and there it is, second post. It used to be that there had to be intent present to commit a crime. The government realized they could prosecute many, many more people by stripping out the intent requirement and did so. Try depositing 10,000k cash into your bank account without documentation. Just because you didn't "willfully break the law" won't stop you from becoming a felon.

There is no defense in a case against the government. This isn't a logic or philosophy college course. The gov't could care less what your excuse...logic... reason is. If a snake belonging to you goes across state lines, they can prosecute you. Doesn't matter if you try to pin it on Fed Ex.

I suspect Fed Ex won't even know for 100% until a case goes to court. I also seriously doubt that Fed Ex allows people to illegally ship wine as you suggest to make an extra couple bucks off shipping. It's an absurd notion they turn a blind eye to it.

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It was late and I can see how the word willfully was misconstrued. Like I said before though, you apparently were not keeping up with the entire thread.

I was certainly not saying that this was a case of ignorance to the law. Let me break this down for you again since you obviously still dont get it.

It was brought up that from here on out, if you shipped a burm or such through FedEx, intrastate, that BECAUSE YOU READ THIS FORUM, that you would now have knowledge of FedEx taking your package outside of the state line. Because of this, you would be guilty.

I was simply pointing out that if you are shipping a snake INTRASTATE. From one address in a state to another IN THE SAME STATE, you are NOT breaking a law. Just because you read that FedEx MAY OR MAY NOT actually step over a state line with your package still does not constitute any legal wrong doing on your part.

" If a snake belonging to you goes across state lines, they can prosecute you. Doesn't matter if you try to pin it on Fed Ex. "

Now, stay with me here... Say you ship a burm from Dallas Tx to Marshal Tx ( Marshal is close to the Louisiana border ) using a local shipping service who doesnt have a processing center outside of the state. So no reason for it not to go straight down I-20 to its destination. Now, say the driver of that van decides he wants to make a pit stop to a little place he likes to go for lunch right on the other side of the border of Louisiana. So he does. With your snake in the back. Did you just commit a felony ? Of course not ! So my question is this... what is the difference between this and using FedEx ? The fact that they may or may not take your package outside the state ? How would you know they are though ? This isnt an issue of not having knowledge of the law, its an issue of not knowing what FedEx's shipping practices are. They are choosing to take packages outside of the state they are being shipped in. Not you.

Im still not convinced that FedEx takes every package to processing centers outside of state lines.

Oh, and WTF are you talking about ? It is FAR from a felony or illegal for that matter to deposit 10k into a bank account without documentation.

Of course FedEx doesnt ALLOW people to illegally ship wine. But when someone comes in and is shipping tons of bottles of " olive oil " from a local winery, is it on FedEx to open the box and make sure it is olive oil ? Of course not because they could care less. In that situation, the shipper is breaking the law. Not FedEx. They would not be held responsible.

[QUOTE=Kyle7676;1792121]
Of course FedEx doesnt ALLOW people to illegally ship wine. But when someone comes in and is shipping tons of bottles of " olive oil " from a local winery, is it on FedEx to open the box and make sure it is olive oil ? Of course not because they could care less. [QUOTE]

haha exactly... i was listening to a vendor (who shall remain nameless) and he was talking about how he has and will be shipping out some funky looking cornsnakes here lately lol :gj:

.....:confused: We do nothing but argue between ourselves.. just Because we don't agree on a few base issues doesn't mean we need to spend our free tine arguing over stuff like this....

I guess this conversation is a little different then the other ones we've seen, but in the end it still blows my mind.. we're not going to get anywhere alone, only together.

[QUOTE=zach_24_90;1792127][QUOTE=Kyle7676;1792121]
Of course FedEx doesnt ALLOW people to illegally ship wine. But when someone comes in and is shipping tons of bottles of " olive oil " from a local winery, is it on FedEx to open the box and make sure it is olive oil ? Of course not because they could care less.

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haha exactly... i was listening to a vendor (who shall remain nameless) and he was talking about how he has and will be shipping out some funky looking cornsnakes here lately lol :gj:

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Shame on him. :mad:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Shame on him. :mad:

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i say he is jsut trying to keep his business going... i say shame on the laws for taking that right away from him. and trust me you ALLL know the person im talking about. its not a small breeder. this is a LARGE mainstream top tier breeder

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Originally Posted by zach_24_90

i say he is jsut trying to keep his business going... i say shame on the laws for taking that right away from him. and trust me you ALLL know the person im talking about. its not a small breeder. this is a LARGE mainstream top tier breeder

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Doesn't make it right.

Just because we don't like the laws doesn't mean that we have to show ourselves as irresponsible and thumbing our noses at the law. That will bring even more negative attention to our hobby.

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Originally Posted by Kyle7676

Of course FedEx doesnt ALLOW people to illegally ship wine. But when someone comes in and is shipping tons of bottles of " olive oil " from a local winery, is it on FedEx to open the box and make sure it is olive oil ? Of course not because they could care less.

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Originally Posted by zach_24_90

haha exactly... i was listening to a vendor (who shall remain nameless) and he was talking about how he has and will be shipping out some funky looking cornsnakes here lately lol :gj:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Shame on him. :mad:

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LOL and before someone says that i was telling people how to circumvent the ban on shipping the banned snakes, I was merely responding to the comment made earlier.

That is in clear violation and you would most certainly be in violation of a law if you were caught.

oh for sure. i am not saying i would do it personally. just adding to the conversation.

if you ship a snake with in state, it goes to memphis on fedex yes. but it is not considered leaving the state until it goes out of airport in hands and on to the streets. It has never left your state is the way they are seeing it.

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Originally Posted by Kyle7676

I have zero interest in the larger snakes and have zero worries that this will work its way down to ball pythons.

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Originally Posted by Kyle7676

I have zero worries about this trickling down to all snakes like several of you on here believe it will.

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Many Jews in Poland said the same thing when the Jews in Germany were rounded up...They were just as myopic then as you are now. This is not just an issue of banning reptiles or certain species of reptiles. It's about taking away your rights. The easiest rights to take away are the ones you don't want. Just because you don't want them, doesn't mean they're any less important.

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Originally Posted by serpent fan

...is there some anti ball python law im not familiar with ?!? Now im skurred

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If I am not mistaken the Dept of Fish and Wildlife has a report floating around saying ball pythons can be invasive as far north as the great plains buy digging burrows to overwinter. With people like that in positions of power little things like 'fact' doesn't bother them much.

but kyle7676's comments worry me much more.

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Originally Posted by Kyle7676

It was late and I can see how the word willfully was misconstrued. Like I said before though, you apparently were not keeping up with the entire thread.

I was certainly not saying that this was a case of ignorance to the law. Let me break this down for you again since you obviously still dont get it.

It was brought up that from here on out, if you shipped a burm or such through FedEx, intrastate, that BECAUSE YOU READ THIS FORUM, that you would now have knowledge of FedEx taking your package outside of the state line. Because of this, you would be guilty.

I was simply pointing out that if you are shipping a snake INTRASTATE. From one address in a state to another IN THE SAME STATE, you are NOT breaking a law. Just because you read that FedEx MAY OR MAY NOT actually step over a state line with your package still does not constitute any legal wrong doing on your part.

" If a snake belonging to you goes across state lines, they can prosecute you. Doesn't matter if you try to pin it on Fed Ex. "

Now, stay with me here... Say you ship a burm from Dallas Tx to Marshal Tx ( Marshal is close to the Louisiana border ) using a local shipping service who doesnt have a processing center outside of the state. So no reason for it not to go straight down I-20 to its destination. Now, say the driver of that van decides he wants to make a pit stop to a little place he likes to go for lunch right on the other side of the border of Louisiana. So he does. With your snake in the back. Did you just commit a felony ? Of course not ! So my question is this... what is the difference between this and using FedEx ? The fact that they may or may not take your package outside the state ? How would you know they are though ? This isnt an issue of not having knowledge of the law, its an issue of not knowing what FedEx's shipping practices are. They are choosing to take packages outside of the state they are being shipped in. Not you.

Im still not convinced that FedEx takes every package to processing centers outside of state lines.

Oh, and WTF are you talking about ? It is FAR from a felony or illegal for that matter to deposit 10k into a bank account without documentation.

Of course FedEx doesnt ALLOW people to illegally ship wine. But when someone comes in and is shipping tons of bottles of " olive oil " from a local winery, is it on FedEx to open the box and make sure it is olive oil ? Of course not because they could care less. In that situation, the shipper is breaking the law. Not FedEx. They would not be held responsible.

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I'm not sure why you expend the effort to create scenarios that don't exist since you could apparently care less about this topic. You seem so sure about who commits a crime and who doesn't. There's no reason the government wouldn't or couldn't charge the shipper and transporter in your above scenario. They can do what they please and the careers of prosecutors advance based on the number of successful prosecutions.

I suppose if you nicely explained to the judge and prosecutor that the law doesn't apply to you, just to the physical transporter, they would realize their error and quietly drop the case :rofl::rofl::rofl:.

You have no knowledge of how often Fed Ex alerts the gov't to illegally shipped wine or how often they are fined if caught by gov't inspectors for facilitating a crime but you speak with sure knowledge about their business as if you were a Fed Ex executive.

To answer your other question, it is illegal to use more than 10k in cash, in any transaction without documentation. The Bank Secrecy Act require banks to report anyone depositing 10k in cash or in smaller amounts to the government for investigation and prosecution. Other anti money laundering acts provide the same rules for any other transaction, such as using cash to buy a house or car... or high-end ball pythons. If you can prove you paid tax on the money, you will probably get off with a misdemeanor.

There were several people on the news who were charged with this last month for depositing more than 10k in cash with taxes paid (but no documentation). These cases were used as an example of how intent no longer matters when committing a crime.

Who cares? They don't know what's in the box and it's none of their business.

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Originally Posted by RyanT

Who cares? They don't know what's in the box and it's none of their business.

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It's called the law...there's a good chance you've heard of it :rolleyes:

While yes there is a good chance you will be successful but there is also that slight chance they will catch you. For me $300 for a snake isn't worth a huge fine or if it's large scale possibly jail time. But to each his own. People are gonna do what they Are gonna do