Benefits of live feeding?

I don't want to start a debate over which is better - live or f/t - as that's been done to death. I'm also aware of the risks of leaving a live rat with a snake unattended.

That aside, is there a clear benefit or reason for me to switch to live rats?

I started with f/t because the breeder recommended it and I just assumed everyone did it. Admittedly f/t is more convenient for me as I just don't want to store a bunch of live rats. Still, if there's a strong valid reason, I might consider it. Otherwise my guy is feeding well and there's no need to change without a clear benefit. Don't fix what ain't broke?

Thoughts?
(Again, please no f/t vs live debates)

I feed live because my snake won't take f/t. I also don't store them, I live 2 minutes away from a store so I get them on a weekly basis.

So, if your snake is currently taking f/t no problem, there is very little in terms of "clear benefits" to switching to live other than the fact that (I believe... could be wrong) there is (slight) loss of nutritional value when feeding f/t.

With 1 snake, and no feeding issues, your probably best to just stick with f/t.

There are absolutely no benefits of feeding live except that you don't have to thaw them out. If anything they have a downside of possibly transmitting internal parasites and could bite your snake.

Why change it at all if it works for you? Works both ways too. If it ain't broke don't fix it. I'd pay for a few of mine to start taking f/t. Don't ruin it lol.

Some will argue that live is more nutritious than F/T. When they make that argument, ask them for the studies...

Im currently trying to switch my 2 bps to f/t just so i dont have to go to the pet store every week to get rats. Its almost 20min both ways and completely out of my way. So ill be overjoyed if the 2nd one switches for me, one has so far. Plus f/t is cheaper. F/t online are like 1/3 the price of live in the petstore. The only downside of f/t for me is thawing out the rats. I think its kinda gross compared to dropping a live rat in but in the long run ill be saving money :)

Live makes feeding day more interesting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EricWright

Live makes feeding day more interesting.

---

Only if you consider the sound of rats squirming, dying and losing bowel control as "interesting". Id go f/t any day if all my snakes would take it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Slim

Some will argue that live is more nutritious than F/T. When they make that argument, ask them for the studies...

---

http://nutritiondata.self.com/topics/processing

http://img.tapatalk.com/a69363c8-62db-3c65.jpg

Not much loss but loss just the same.

Only excitement animal gets in its life really.... Biting ain't no problem here...my snake ain't no [sissy], the mouse never lasts more than 10 seconds in there and I supervise the entire thing

Sent from my BlackBerry 9370 using Tapatalk

Great feedback, thanks all. I'll stick with f/t as it's working just fine.

if you have a large collection I would feed live, otherwise if they eat F/T thats good,to get a large collection its almost impossble to get all on F/T.I have 40 feeding on various prey.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mattchibi

Only if you consider the sound of rats squirming, dying and losing bowel control as "interesting". Id go f/t any day if all my snakes would take it.

---

I didn't realize I said that. Must be written real small between the lines.

What you have done is called a "straw man." You invent a position that I have never held, yet attribute it to me as if it was my own. You then attack that position and prove me wrong. You feel as though you have won something, while in fact, you have only attacked an invented person (the "straw man"). Classical logical fallacy.

Feeding live is easier for me since I have over 50 snakes I feed. If f/t works for you, I see no reason to change it up :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EricWright

I didn't realize I said that. Must be written real small between the lines.

---

Then what did you mean, pray tell?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EricWright

I didn't realize I said that. Must be written real small between the lines.

What you have done is called a "straw man." You invent a position that I have never held, yet attribute it to me as if it was my own. You then attack that position and prove me wrong. You feel as though you have won something, while in fact, you have only attacked an invented person (the "straw man"). Classical logical fallacy.

---

:weirdface

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Slim

Then what did you mean, pray tell?

---

Watching a snake stalk, strike, and constrict (in a reasonable time frame too). You know the exciting day of the week where it's more than a pet rock. Have you ever watched a lion chase a gazelle on discovery channel?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EricWright

Watching a snake stalk, strike, and constrict (in a reasonable time frame too). You know the exciting day of the week where it's more than a pet rock. Have you ever watched a lion chase a gazelle on discovery channel?

---

I see your point. I actually agree with you, i enjoy watching them hunt too. No im not a heartless barbarian that enjoys killing things... But watching the snake come out and hunt the prey is interesting for me to watch. Exactly like animal planet except not really a fair game bc the rat has zero chance of escaping lol. I do feel bad for the rats but there are millions of other out there. When feeding f/t you sorta just zombie dance it in front of them until they decide to get it. Regardless, im still gunna try and convert my 2 over to f/t so that way i can stock up in bulk. Maybe someday when i have the time/space to breed my own rats ill switch back to live.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EricWright

Have you ever watched a lion chase a gazelle on discovery channel?

---

Have you ever watched a lion chase a gazelle in a 15'x15' cage???:rolleyes:

I don't know about F/T but I have some experiences with P/K.

I used to p/k small rats before feeding them to my snakes after they were weaned off rat crawlers. I noticed there was a higher chance of them refusing a P/K rodent than, when I just dropped the small rat live and let them stalk it, when they were offered live.

It could have been a fluke, I don't know, ball pythons can be finicky. It's not particularly scientific, just something I observed. I have some snakes who will eat anything I give them, and some who only want live and will turn their nose up at P/K 50% of the time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amon Ra Reptiles

http://nutritiondata.self.com/topics/processing

http://img.tapatalk.com/a69363c8-62db-3c65.jpg

Not much loss but loss just the same.

---

:rofl:

There are no benefits, there are no detriments, feed your animal what it's willing to eat... End of story. :snake:

It's about the snake's preference and my feasibility.

My snakes prefer live. And I can't feasibly buy and store FT in bulk. I've have to buy a separate freezer that I can't afford nor do I have room for. I do, however, have an arrangement with a local pet store the buy rats and mice at wholesale price that all of my snakes with gladly eat when they are hungry. What little is refused can be put in a holding tank for the week or taken back to store for them to resale.

It benefits me financially to feed live right now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amon Ra Reptiles

Not much loss but loss just the same.

---

And variable based on freezing technique, length of storage, storage temp, and even the individual prey animal being frozen and thawed. Also, when calculated on a Gaussian gradient, the difference falls with-in the circular error probable of the data presented...meaning, there may be a slight difference, and, there may not be. Also, if I'm not mistaken, the study you found and posted was done without a control group.

*EDIT: In the interest of accuracy, I re-ran the data from the 2003 USDA study and the only factor that falls outside of the Gaussian error gradient is Vitamin C. I do not believe rats are a significant source of Vitamin C, so I'll let you draw your own conclusions about that part of the data.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EricWright

Watching a snake stalk, strike, and constrict (in a reasonable time frame too). You know the exciting day of the week where it's more than a pet rock.

---

Mine stalk, strike, and constrict F/T, so I wouldn't see a real difference with live. I'm old enough to have had a pet rock, and I can assure you, no BP of mine is a pet rock.

Ugh I hate this forum. The simplest question turns into animosity.
I'm out. Thanks for the info.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChunkyLoverYYZ

Ugh I hate this forum. The simplest question turns into animosity.
I'm out. Thanks for the info.

---

???? What animosity ???? I really didn't see any, it's just a discussion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RobNJ

Have you ever watched a lion chase a gazelle in a 15'x15' cage???:rolleyes:

---

You know most nature shows stage things like that. Every wonder why the crab doesn't get away from the hungry fish in the brightly lit clear water? Because he's tied to a string or dropped in front of the fish. Do you think the cows, pigs, and chickens you eat died a humane and painless death in a CO2 chamber?

i cant believe that no one has mentioned teh one true benefit to feeding live. your snake gets exercise and builds muscle tone when feeding live. the act of hunting, constricting and swallowing a live animal is much more intense for the snake then just constricting and swallowing a f/t animal. it is a true benefit to the animal.
is that WHY i feed live....no. i feed live because its easier for me to feed 50 snakes at a time.
adam jeffery

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChunkyLoverYYZ

Ugh I hate this forum. The simplest question turns into animosity.
I'm out. Thanks for the info.

---

Unfortunately that's bp.net for ya. We used to spend A LOT of time here but the bickering gets really old. It sucks but you really can't say the sky is blue on this forum without counting on someone to argue with about the shade and hue.

I only have one guy that must eat live. I wish he would take p/k because I worry everytime I feed him. I know its what they do, and he is capable of handling himself, but still, I am a mom and worry. All my others get p/k. I don't have room in my freezer for f/t. So p/k vs f/t works better for me. No time spent thawing, no space taken up in freezer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChunkyLoverYYZ

Ugh I hate this forum. The simplest question turns into animosity.
I'm out. Thanks for the info.

---

What great animosity are you seeing in this thread? I've considered it an interesting discussion. Must we agree on everything? That would be pretty boring if you ask me...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EricWright

You know most nature shows stage things like that. Every wonder why the crab doesn't get away from the hungry fish in the brightly lit clear water? Because he's tied to a string or dropped in front of the fish. Do you think the cows, pigs, and chickens you eat died a humane and painless death in a CO2 chamber?

---

You pretty much re-made Rob's point with this post...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by adamjeffery

the act of hunting, constricting and swallowing a live animal is much more intense for the snake then just constricting and swallowing a f/t animal.

---

I am very interested in seeing the data you have to back up this statement.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amon Ra Reptiles

It sucks but you really can't say the sky is blue on this forum without counting on someone to argue with about the shade and hue.

---

From where I'm sitting, the sky is awfully grey today...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Slim

What great animosity are you seeing in this thread? I've considered it an interesting discussion. Must we agree on everything? That would be pretty boring if you ask me...





You pretty much re-made Rob's point with this post...





I am very interested in seeing the data you have to back up this statement.





From where I'm sitting, the sky is awfully grey today...

---

Perfect example

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amon Ra Reptiles

Perfect example

---

:rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by heathers*bps

:weirdface

---

Link explaining this logical fallacy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Zombie thread alert...

My husband and I tried f/t with my first one he would never take them. The min we tried live he took it, it is just kinda what ever works best for you and your snake. My current snake takes live which is fine but the previous owner fed 2 at a time Ill feed him 2 just not at once so there for got to find something to keep the other mouse in. Either way there is going to be a downfall to 1 or the other lol I say stick with what ya got like someone else said if it aint broke dont fix it :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mattchibi

Only if you consider the sound of rats squirming, dying and losing bowel control as "interesting". Id go f/t any day if all my snakes would take it.

---

This I find to be the only downside of feeding live, the prey will urinate, possibly defecate before eaten. Though i'm fairly certain it has no ill effects towards the snake as long as regular maintenance is in order I find it quite gross if the prey does happen to defecate or urinate on the snake.

On that note I probably will feed live until I start breeding my own rats and have the surplus to mess around with switching over to F/T. I've tried F/T and personally feel the route of live is more efficient in terms of convenience. Reason being thawing out rats is just not my thing it's gross, I much prefer watching the kill.

One other point I might make is that when it comes to any kind of food, what do we as humans prefer? Only the freshest am I correct? I'm no chef but I could tell you for a fact I could tell when my meat has been frozen or not, I much prefer the latter. So for the sake of giving your snake a better meal to enjoy why not go live?

Then again they don't really chew their food...

But that's still how I look at it.

Once I start breeding I would probably freeze my own rats just because I'll likely be producing a surplus of them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

Zombie thread alert...

---

'Tis the season :P

Just want to point out that unless you guys are grilling up those rats they are technically raw. ;)

• 
  

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cinch

Just want to point out that unless you guys are grilling up those rats they are technically raw. ;)

• 
  

---

Live and f/t rodents are raw.

considering i feed my 40 royals a week plus my boas , rats , house snakes, hognose ect

i have a supply of live on site pushing at times 300 + rats
200 multies
150 mice

i still feed F/T to all bar 3 and the odd pain to swap hatchling
2 import live feeders
1 re home mistreated and wouldn't eat owt but live afterwards

all i do is defrost em in the morning go to work come back warm them over the rad in the rep room for a while
maybe im lazy taking 1 tray of defrost up is better than 10 tubs of live :)

feed the royals
left overs go in the boas / what ever looks hungry

now as far as nutritional data goes from my own personal weighings with the live feeders V's F/T
it would be hard to say as my live feeders are generally not utter pigs like those on F/T

but one thing i will throw out there those here that are on multies are packing on leaner muscle than those on rats feeding 2x 70g multies to 1x 150g rat

There's plenty of reasons live is better.

I would venture to guess live eaters eat more consistently over time and therefor grow at a faster rate than most F/T eating snakes.

Live rats can be plucked and put back into their tubs over and over without having to toss it in the garbage.

Time, something more valuable than the savings f/t might bring you.

I actually hate f/t feedings especially with snakes that need it dangled for 5 minutes or longer to get it to think about eating...:rolleye2:

i find live easier since there is a place not far from my home to buy from, that and i do like the hunt before the feeding thats just not the same with frozen + like said above i hated sitting there dangling the rat for a few minutes waiting for it to eat i did the zombie dance but they seem to go for it faster(atleast in my experience) feeding live than the zombie dance method

those are the advantages i see to live, i know that feeding live gives a chance at your snake getting bit but aslong as you watch closely how the rat gets coiled it shouldnt be a problem, i just use the tongs to get int he way of the rats teeth if it even looks remotly possible that the rat has a chance of biting which really i think ive only seen a couple times usually they are pretty good at striking the right spot lol

with 6 boas and 2 carpets i get none to throw in the bin :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EricWright

I didn't realize I said that. Must be written real small between the lines.

What you have done is called a "straw man." You invent a position that I have never held, yet attribute it to me as if it was my own. You then attack that position and prove me wrong. You feel as though you have won something, while in fact, you have only attacked an invented person (the "straw man"). Classical logical fallacy.

---

You called feeding them live "interesting"...what can that possibly mean? I inferred the same as the responder.

- - - Updated - - -

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mantra

i find live easier since there is a place not far from my home to buy from, that and i do like the hunt before the feeding thats just not the same with frozen + like said above i hated sitting there dangling the rat for a few minutes waiting for it to eat i did the zombie dance but they seem to go for it faster(atleast in my experience) feeding live than the zombie dance method

those are the advantages i see to live, i know that feeding live gives a chance at your snake getting bit but aslong as you watch closely how the rat gets coiled it shouldnt be a problem, i just use the tongs to get int he way of the rats teeth if it even looks remotly possible that the rat has a chance of biting which really i think ive only seen a couple times usually they are pretty good at striking the right spot lol

---

With one snake, MAYBE you can do this. Otherwise, I assure you the snake is more stressed out with you poking around with tongs, while he is eating!.

The only real upside that I can think of is that you can fatten up the rat to your liking. You can ensure they are eating good so that in turn your snake gets a better meal. but even then, this is only possible if you keep the rats a while before feeding. I feed live but wish I could feed f/t.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

There's plenty of reasons live is better.

I would venture to guess live eaters eat more consistently over time and therefor grow at a faster rate than most F/T eating snakes.

Live rats can be plucked and put back into their tubs over and over without having to toss it in the garbage.

Time, something more valuable than the savings f/t might bring you.

I actually hate f/t feedings especially with snakes that need it dangled for 5 minutes or longer to get it to think about eating...:rolleye2:

---

Live eaters do not eat more consistently over time. Live rats in tubs suggests your are now raising/maintaining live rodents which offsets any time you might be saving. I have five BPs, that have all been finicky at one time or another, right now 4 of them grab the FT rat within 60 seconds, the 5th, prefers I drop it in her tub, and leave the room. If you are dangling for 5 mins, you are doing something wrong.

Why does this debate even matter. Feed what works best for you and others opinions be damned. I feed live, it works well for me and mine. I don't worry about what works better for someone else.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2