NERD reptiles fairly priced?

Was wondering why nerd prices are so far off from other breeders prices. I understand they have higher over heads and have pioneered some great python morphs but jeez the prices! Want to pick up a queen bee and a superfly female. They want 3250 for the queen bee and 3500 for the superfly. They were willing to give me a deal for 6000.00 for the both of them. Which I appreciate. So im thinking 750 off what a great deal! But it still doesn't add up. I found queen bees to be in the price range of about a 1800 through dynasty rep, and 2000 through bhb. 1000 difference. And the superfly I've seen the for about 2200 to 2500 range. Am I crazy or is there something missing? I don't mind spending more money for a quality morph. But were talking about a huge difference is prices here. Would like your thoughts and advice about this subject. Hopefully someone can shed some light. Cause right now im blind! I could be spending 4000 versus 6000. And by the way these will be my first two females. Thanks in advance. My passionate addiction begins.

A little bit about me. I started this hobby surprisingly through my beautiful daughter. My brother inlaw took her to the mall to buy her gift for her 11th birthday. Low and behold she comes home with a normal ball python. My wife and I were shocked to say the least. She didn't even want it in the house. She warmed up to the idea pretty quickly though. In the end she loves our normal ball python pepper. My wife and I were born in the year of the snake. And granted I have two large tattoos of snakes on my body along with the first tattoo that reads snake in Chinese. Ive never thought to myself hey I'll buy a snake. I sorta feel destined to breed snakes now that it's been introduced to me. Thank god for my brother inlaw and daughter for sparking my interest and passion for wanting to collect and breed these beautiful reptiles.

If you want quality, you have to pay for it. A good majority of NERDs snake's are very good quality and health, therefore you'll pay more through them than some breeders. It's kind of the difference between a $75 pastel and a $250 pastel. You'll see the big difference as they grow up. Some private breeders also charge higher prices for their morphs because of the quality. As with anything else, a better quality "product" will cost more. And the name brand sometimes has a pull on it too.

You pay for the trusted name

The value of an animal always lies in the person spending the money. Compare all the different examples of the morph you want to add and select the one that best represents the ideal you are seeking to breed. You will pay more to buy from a big name but that doesn't always mean they have the best looking snake. I've made some fantastic deals negotiating prices on snakes that I have found to be top notch examples of their respective morphs. I've paid under market pricing on many snakes in my collection. Find the snake you want and then negotiate a price. Any other way of doing it is setting you up to spend too much or to get a snake that is a poor example of the morph. Just some advice for you and welcome to the board and hobby!

Regards,

B

While I also think NERD's prices are on the high side, he can charge what he wants, and obviously he's selling enough animals to stay in business.

Do I think his morphs are better than anyone else’s and deserve the higher price points? Depends on the morph. Personally, I wouldn't put either Queen Bees or Super Flys in that category. Especially Queen Bees, as there are lots of breeders out there producing great Bees at significantly lower prices.

On the other hand, If I were in the market for a Soul Sucker, there's only one place I would go, and yes, I'd pay the premium.

Please keep in mind that being the biggest breeder on the block doesn't automatically make you the best breeder on the block. At this point in the history of the BP trade, there are many small hobby breeders out there consistently producing high quality animals. The trick is to find out who they are and develop a relationship with them.

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Originally Posted by LGray23

If you want quality, you have to pay for it. A good majority of NERDs snake's are very good quality and health, therefore you'll pay more through them than some breeders. It's kind of the difference between a $75 pastel and a $250 pastel. You'll see the big difference as they grow up. Some private breeders also charge higher prices for their morphs because of the quality. As with anything else, a better quality "product" will cost more. And the name brand sometimes has a pull on it too.

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X2

The NERD name does have some pull to it, but they also produce high quality animals. I got my lemon pastel from them and she was way more than most pastels on the market but worth every penny. She's pushing almost 1300-1400g right now and looks fantastic.

http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/...s/IMG_4614.jpg

NERD charges what snakes are worth, not what somone dropped their prices to get to. Honestly, I think that queenbees should be 3000 because of the amount of work that goes into making that animal......NERD will sell it for 3250 because SOMEONE will appreciate the work that it took to make that animal.....honestly, I still get 750-800 for lesser females because of the quality I produce......just saying.....I don't sell them in a week, but they are quality, and usually over 400 grams......I don't buy from people who have the lowest prices, and I don't mind kicking out for quality animals.....and most other people don't either.......the people who look for the cheapest price, are usually the people who are gonna cut your throat next year when they drop the price LOWER to sell their animal cheaper than you......just a little something to think about.....I am sure NERD has their price that high because they would not mind keeping it, and if you want it, you are gonna pay for it......

Jason

NERD's been doing their thing well enough and long enough that they can price how they'd like and still make a lot of sales...if you don't like the price, move on to the next seller, nobody loses out. To answer your question, if people are willing to pay NERD's prices to have a NERD ball python in their collection, then they are priced fairly, and more power to them for being able to sell at those prices.

To be honest(and I'm assuming this is the first time you're loooking at potentially buying from them), I'm wondering what's going through your head questioning if they price fairly when they offer you an 11% discount on your first purchase from them.

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Originally Posted by JTrott

NERD charges what snakes are worth, not what somone dropped their prices to get to.

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Prices are set by the seller. Worth is determined by the market and the buyer. A subtle distinction, but an important one.

I think the OP has a fair question.

I see the OP's question as "Are the NERD snakes worth the premium over current market?". He does not seem to be saying that he will not pay it if they really are. Also, he is not the first person to dare utter that NERD pricing may be out of whack with the market.

The folks above are correct that NERD can and will charge what they think they can get for the animals. I always look at that they have, but have passed on them at this point die to pricing. I have found equal or better examples of the morph I was looking for from other breeders at better pricing. I still look, and I reckon I will buy from them at somewhat of a premium for a especially nice animal.

For example: I am always looking at Champ females. NERD asks well over 3K for them still. Is anyone really going to state that the stock is better than say Dave Green or Mark Petros (as an example, not drag in another name) or any other good smaller breeder at 1/3 to 1/2 the price? NERD does add that their Champs are used in the PCP Ball, but does not state that there is any special genetics that make it particular. In this case, I can see charging somewhat over market, but the mark-up is too high. I have seen this happen when someone does not care to sell the animal, and that is fine but it needs to be seen for what it is.

Another example is they want $1000 for a Honey Bee female (versus the market of around $800). She is a very nice example and would (and might) pay this for her. Not because she is at NERD, but because she is awesome.

As far as animal health goes, a BP can only be in so perfect of health, and any small breeder I have dealt with has perfectly healthy snakes. NERD snakes are then not generally "healthier". On a scale of 1-100, a ton of smaller breeders are easily at 100 health wise, right up there with NERD.

It appears they are willing to negotiate a bit (as most folks are). And, that is cool. But to be honest, 11% off something marked up 60% is not that much. Kind of reminds me of department store jewelry.

So in summary. I am willing to pay premium for a premium example of a morph. I do not believe that the big name always indicates a better, healthier example. NERD has awesome stock, but so do a handful of other breeders. I will likely buy from them in the future if I find an animal that fits my plans and aesthetic, but not for the name.

As for the person who agrees with the pricing because they "think" that the snake should be worth that much, good luck. Market dynamics determine the worth of anything. Look at Hypos, they are as hard to make as a Pied, but the value is not there.

Dang that was long.

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Originally Posted by Slim

Prices are set by the seller. Worth is determined by the market and the buyer. A subtle distinction, but an important one.

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I guess that is a matter of opinion.....I think that market is determined by one person dropping price to get rid of animals quickly, and the next person dropping lower to do the same.....you know what they say about opinions.

Jason

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Originally Posted by JTrott

I guess that is a matter of opinion.....

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It's a matter of economic science. You can charge anything you want. The market will determine what it's worth.

If one of the morphs you produce is worth $3000 on Monday, but the price gets cut and it's only worth $1500 on Thrusday, you can cry over that spilled milk if you want to, but in reality, it was only ever really worth what someone was willing to pay for it.

If another breeder 'cuts' their prices, why does that make them the bad guy? They have a business to run just like you do. If your morphs are really worth what you price them at, then you shouldn't be the least bit bothered by 'price cutters'.

As several have said, they charge that much because they can. Kevin pioneered a lot of this BP morph stuff. Think in terms of clothing designers. I'll never understand high fashion personally, but there are some who would argue "are you serious... of course these shoes are worth $2,000... the red sole means they're Louis Vuitton!" Those same idiots would spend the extra thousand bucks on a snake to say it came from a 'famous' breeder and blood line.

I used to have a german shepherd when I was a kid that we bought from a breeder for 1,700 dollars. We could have picked one up for closer to 1,000. We paid the extra because her (the dog) father was an award winning show dog. Guess what, she still got bad hips and had to be put down before her time.



I bought my snake from a guy who is local to the area and who used to work at NERD. His shop is literally in the same town as NERD. Most of his breeder snakes were the best examples of the morphs he could get and were literally from NERD or only 1 generation behind. I bought from him because his prices were literally half that of the same snake at NERD and came from breeder snakes who may very well have been from the same clutch originally. I asked why his prices were so much lower and he replied, "because that's what they're worth."

He also said it was because he thoroughly enjoys sticking it to NERD for personal reasons, but that's a story for another day... (a very risque story, too!)

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Originally Posted by jinx667

I think the OP has a fair question.

I see the OP's question as "Are the NERD snakes worth the premium over current market?".

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Ok, so fair question, albeit a poorly worded question.

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Originally Posted by jinx667

He does not seem to be saying that he will not pay it if they really are. Also, he is not the first person to dare utter that NERD pricing may be out of whack with the market.

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It's all nonsensical complaining...the ball python market is arbitrary at best. There is nothing to regulate it.

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Originally Posted by jinx667

It appears they are willing to negotiate a bit (as most folks are). And, that is cool. But to be honest, 11% off something marked up 60% is not that much. Kind of reminds me of department store jewelry.

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There is no mark up because there is no set market. People charge what they can get, and NERD can command higher prices than most. Does that mean they're being unfair? Not at all. You can buy an "I Love NY" t-shirt in Times Square for $25, and you can buy that same exact shirt at a rest stop in western PA for $8.50...does that mean that the guy in Times Square is being unfair?

Saying that NERD is selling at "mark up" prices is ridiculous...and you will surely see this when you go to sell snakes and see how many people out there are selling animals at $0.40-$0.50 on the dollar of so called "market price", making it more difficult for you to sell your snakes...you'll be much more appreciative of those who price and can actually sell at premium prices.

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Originally Posted by jinx667

Look at Hypos, they are as hard to make as a Pied, but the value is not there.

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That may be because there are a lot more hypos out there.

I love it when my words get pulled apart and analyzed.

I gave 2 examples of pricing that I have noticed. One that I thought was out of whack and another that I thought was appropriate.

No set market may be true in the most literal sense, but there is a known price range for most morphs based on what is selling, and outliers are and should be generally removed from the equation. Price cutters should be looked at a outliers AS SHOULD someone charging 300% of current "market." The idea that the whole thing is a true free-for-all and there is not a basic consensus on values is ridiculous as well. I do not believe prices should drop because a person or two undercut to sell theirs, but there is also a natural settling of prices over time related to many factors.

NERD can charge whatever they like, and the snake will sell or not. I am not accusing them of "mark up" directly, but if something is 50-300% (example numbers) over the average market value, it is what it is.

Either way, I am not here to be in a argument, just offering how I think about it.

To answer the OP: Maybe. If YOU think the name and the animal is worth the premium, then yes they are worth it. If not, then no, look elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by Slim

If another breeder 'cuts' their prices, why does that make them the bad guy?

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I never said anything about anyone being a bad guy.

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Originally Posted by Slim

They have a business to run just like you do. If your morphs are really worth what you price them at, then you shouldn't be the least bit bothered by 'price cutters'.

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Price cutters don't bother me because MOST, not all, of them quickly realize that most people are not gonna be millionaires doing this, and will quickly get out.....I would be willing to bet that maybe half of the people doing it today will still be doing it in 5 years......I have been doing this for about 10 years, and have seen prices change alot, and ALOT of those people who invested ALOT of money 5-10 years ago, are FAR gone now......again, just an opinion, and you know what they say about them......

Jason

I agree that when you but from NERD you are buying a little piece of mind that you know the animal was housed correctly cared for correctly and comes from good reputable genetics but I think that accounts for about 15% of the additional cost. The other 85% is the name.

As someone else stated if I'm looking for a soul sucker or some other NERD specialty then I'll go to NERD but something as common as a queen bee? No way I'm payin that price. Nice examples of morphs are out there without the exorbitant price tag.

Personally I think that's a fun part of this hobby. I have a list of a few animals that I got well below market value that are exceptional examples. I enjoy the hunt for the bargain.

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Originally Posted by JTrott

Price cutters don't bother me

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Oh, you seemed a touch bothered...

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Originally Posted by JTrott

the people who look for the cheapest price, are usually the people who are gonna cut your throat next year when they drop the price LOWER to sell their animal cheaper than you...

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:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by JTrott

just an opinion, and you know what they say about them......

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Why yes I do...

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Originally Posted by Slim

Oh, you seemed a touch bothered...



:rolleyes:





Why yes I do...

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Sounds/Reads, like you like to read things into what people type....I never put that it bothers me....I simply stated, as you pointed out, they they cut prices the next year......I don't really think that I need to argue/debate with you about this, as such, I am done.....you are right, I am wrong......your opinion about my statement is EXACTLY right.......we have hijacked this thread enough......I will back away quietly.....

Jason

I buy my snakes not by price but what I personally like an think will make some good looking offspring so if it means i get to pay a little less then a big namer or pay the big namer price it doesnt matter to me as long as im happy at the end of the day with my purchase. excuse my terrible grammar lol

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Originally Posted by JTrott

Sounds/Reads, like you like to read things into what people type....I never put that it bothers me....I simply stated, as you pointed out, they they cut prices the next year......I don't really think that I need to argue/debate with you about this, as such, I am done.....you are right, I am wrong......your opinion about my statement is EXACTLY right.......we have hijacked this thread enough......I will back away quietly.....

Jason

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Don't away mad....

To answer the questions:

Are there snakes that are as equally pretty as NERD snakes? Yes, but NERD sure does produce more screamers than even the above average breeder.

Are those snakes typically more expensive at NERD, even though there are other same morphs of the same high quality?

It sure looks like it to me, but of course quality is in the eye of the beholder.

Supply and demand, that's what sets prices. Morph prices dropping has nothing to do with people selling them for what is considered too low. Take the pastel for example, some big breeders produce around 30 pastels per year simply as a byproduct of more complex pairings. To get rid of all of them they drop their price. Because they just sold 30 pastels at a more accessible price more people have pastels to breed. A few years down the road and everyone has a pastel that they are breeding thus the market is flooded with pastels.

But supply and demand only accounts for the overall market. Some breeders will undercharge and some will overcharge. I agree that a better quality animal should cost more, and that a combo morph should hold its value better than a base morph but the prices that NERD charges are rediculus. But that is their choice and it doesn't effect me at all. I looked for 1.1 pastels from NERD and found that I wasn't willing to pay for their name. So I decided to look elsewhere. I checked out constrictors unlimited, they didn't have what I was looking for so I contacted Ralph Davis... He had a few nice pastels but nothing that wowed me so to speak. Finally I checked JKobylka reptiles and Found what I was looking for.

I guess what I'm trying to say us yes I personally feel that NERD charges too much but as I said that is their choice and the only way that it affects me is I simply choose to do business elsewhere. I'm not saying that I would never do business with them, I feel that it is best to check all possibilities when purchasing a new addition

While I do agree that NERD and The Urban Reptile both charge a lot more, they have their reasons and as long as there are places like BHB and other smaller operations you will have the choice to go else where. The animal only holds the value you put in it, not what you can get out of it or what someone else thinks.

You can shoot your own price to them, and reference BHB and the others price for the animal. The response you'll get is "I'm sure BHB and [name] would be happy to get your business", and if you don't feel that NERD's prices are right then you too will be happy to go else where. :)

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Originally Posted by Kodieh

While I do agree that NERD and The Urban Reptile both charge a lot more, they have their reasons and as long as there are places like BHB and other smaller operations you will have the choice to go else where. The animal only holds the value you put in it, not what you can get out of it or what someone else thinks.

You can shoot your own price to them, and reference BHB and the others price for the animal. The response you'll get is "I'm sure BHB and [name] would be happy to get your business", and if you don't feel that NERD's prices are right then you too will be happy to go else where. :)

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Are you saying that BHB is a small breeder? They have like 70,000 snakes lol

On a more serious note I understand what you are saying lol

WOW, lots of words that can be boiled down to a few. They charge what they do because they can. It is very simple.

Fair is selling something for whatever price someone is willing to pay for it.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

Are you saying that BHB is a small breeder? They have like 70,000 snakes lol

On a more serious note I understand what you are saying lol

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No no! Brian's a huge scale breeder, he just isn't charging NERD's prices for quality animals. OP just mentioned BHB, so I continued the trend haha.

I appreciate all of your helpful comments. Even some of the subtle negativity. It has helped me figure out what's best. I would consider myself a ex brand whore. Which thank god I snapped out of. Because my bank account definitely represents that. I realize that you don't have to have the best of the best. And let's be honest everything you buy will depreciate. And buying nerd snakes does not guarantee a rookie breeder more money. I love perspective and how people think. It's what makes us individuals. I have adhd. Thinking for me is similar to playing scrabble board with your brain. So I apologize for maybe not presenting my question properly. I thank the people that do understand what mean by my question.

In case anybody cares I'm going with jakobi for my Superfly. And I forgot to mention Im into the personable experience. The person who has to grind to make a living. Not saying that nerd hasn't before they got big. I called nerd and it felt very corporate and I didn't feel engaged in the process.

Glad you found the snake you were looking for...I may have sounded harsh, but because I just feel that this isn't the appropriate setting for discussing a single company's/individual's pricing. IMO, this sort of discussion, when individuals are mentioned, is better left to PM, e-mails, telephone, or face to face talking. FWIW, I think the $1,000 difference on NERD's superfly and others you've seen is easily explained being that it's also got the fader gene...pretty sure I'm looking at the same animal you were, as it's the only superfly on their site.

http://newenglandreptile.com/cart/89...y-fader-1.html

Since prices are constantly dropping due to the market on all BP's, I shop around at numerous companies and individuals. I find what I'm looking for at the best price and that's where I buy from. There's an old saying that "A penny saved is a penny earned" and in today's economy who can't afford to save when they can. If I can get the same quality animal that I'm looking for from vendor "X" as compared to vendor "Z" and save some $$$$, then that's who gets my business for that animal.
If it's from a large scale breeder then so be it or if it's from a small company then that's fine too. My collection has come from many different breeders across the country, both large and small. The name of the company or person is insignificant to me as long as their reputation and quality are up to par. I shop in the black and white labeled aisles in the grocery store too and enjoy knowing that the money I saved can help pay for my next BP. Same goes for money I save buying a snake. If I shop around I can put the savings toward a second animal and :):):):):) all the way to the bank.

There is great wisdom in understanding the difference between cheap and inexpensive.

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Originally Posted by neting4luv

In case anybody cares I'm going with jakobi for my Superfly. And I forgot to mention Im into the personable experience. The person who has to grind to make a living. Not saying that nerd hasn't before they got big. I called nerd and it felt very corporate and I didn't feel engaged in the process.

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I want to step in here and correct what seems to be a misconception of the reality of places like NERD. To think that Kevin and all the folks at NERD don't "grind" just because they're "big" is beyond wrong. Those folks work just as hard, if not harder, as anyone else. And they do it with a LOT more stress and pressure than the "little guy".

I can respect the desire for a more personal touch from a smaller business. Got no issue with that. NERD fields tons of calls, e-mails, and personal walk-ins every day. Of course it's going to feel more "corporate". But that doesn't mean they don't work their asses off. Trust me, they do. Kevin McCurley is not living in the lap of luxury (unless you consider tons of beautiful, exotic animals luxury...but for his own personal husbandry, his enclosure is extremely modest :P ) and most certainly not living in the lap of leisure.

We all think we work harder than the next guy or girl. It's human nature and perspective. Everyone wants to be numero uno. I'm not saying nerd does not grind. It takes a lot of hard work to be successful and to stay on top. I respect that. Its more fun for me to fight for the underdog is all. Personal touch. By the way what is the faded gene exactly? Does it eliminate scale color? To each their own. Happiness! Let's spread it. I think I might pick up the Superfly fader then wait till summer for my 2nd female through Justin j, or mark petros. Thanks guys didn't mean to cause negativity.