Leucies - Which one?

I've been deeply researching Blue and Black Eyed Leucies.

I'm wondering what the community thinks is the best pairing to make the best quality BELs.

I know quality starts at the bottom - with quality snakes of that particular morph - but what do you think makes the best looking Leucies?

Lesser x Mojave :)

I'm going to say lesserxmojave as well

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Depends, I prefer the all white of a lesser x lesser butter x butter or lesser x butter over the purplish head of a Mojave cross. Future breeding wise I guess Mojave by lesser or butter is more of a genetic powerhouse. Depends on what you like...

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Originally Posted by Zombie

Depends, I prefer the all white of a lesser x lesser butter x butter or lesser x butter over the purplish head of a Mojave cross. Future breeding wise I guess Mojave by lesser or butter is more of a genetic powerhouse. Depends on what you like...

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What do u mean butter is more of a genetic powerhouse?

Also to the OP blue and black eyed leucies arent made the same. A black eyed leucie is a super fire. And blue eyed are made from the combo of mojave butter or lesser. Someone please correct me if im wrong...

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Originally Posted by Zombie

Depends, I prefer the all white of a lesser x lesser butter x butter or lesser x butter over the purplish head of a Mojave cross. Future breeding wise I guess Mojave by lesser or butter is more of a genetic powerhouse. Depends on what you like...

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That's the problem...I like them all! xD I'll probably end up with at least one of every morph that is in the complex, and I'm looking for somewhere to start. My tax returns are giving me a bit of freedom with what I choose this time, so I'm looking for something fun to start in on.

Thanks for the help guys, I really appreciate it :)

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Also to the OP blue and black eyed leucies arent made the same. A black eyed leucie is a super fire. And blue eyed are made from the combo of mojave butter or lesser. Someone please correct me if im wrong...

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Yup - I know they are different. I'm not picky about which side I start on. According to WOBP's Big Morph List, there's at least two types of Black EL's, Fires and Sulfurs.

it depends, do you wan blue or black eye?

for black eye i would take the simple super fire

for blue eye it doesnt matter to me, i like the dirty head of the super mojaves, but the clear ones are nice too. super lessers though can be bug eyed to varying degrees

Woma Pied, My favorite so far...
http://piedpeddler.com/data/storage/...4bed9adce6.jpg

Mike- they were stating that the mojave x lesser or mojave x butter is more of a genetic powerhouse than just a super of one of the snakes. I like both lucies. I will have both blue and black eyed lucies and a few different mixes of the blue eyed lucies this year. I am doing mojave x mojave and mojave x butter. I am one of the odd balls that likes the head pattern on the super mojave I guess. My fires will make great black eyed lucies. I have seen what their parents have done and I really hope it is passed down through their genes.

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Originally Posted by Clint Bundy

Mike- they were stating that the mojave x lesser or mojave x butter is more of a genetic powerhouse than just a super of one of the snakes. I like both lucies. I will have both blue and black eyed lucies and a few different mixes of the blue eyed lucies this year. I am doing mojave x mojave and mojave x butter. I am one of the odd balls that likes the head pattern on the super mojave I guess. My fires will make great black eyed lucies. I have seen what their parents have done and I really hope it is passed down through their genes.

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Thank you sir, i once again read something too fast and messed it up lol!

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Originally Posted by Xotik

Yup - I know they are different. I'm not picky about which side I start on. According to WOBP's Big Morph List, there's at least two types of Black EL's, Fires and Sulfurs.

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Ohhhh i see. Well why not pickup a blue eyed lucie and a pair of fires? Then end up with both :p

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Ohhhh i see. Well why not pickup a blue eyed lucie and a pair of fires? Then end up with both :p

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Cause I like the challenge in producing it myself. :) I did go to that thought originally. But for some reason, I'd rather torture myself for a few years instead :P

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Originally Posted by Xotik

Cause I like the challenge in producing it myself. :) I did go to that thought originally. But for some reason, I'd rather torture myself for a few years instead :P

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well if your set on producing them yourself (and i say bravo to you), then buy females first since they take longer to mature

Super Fires!!!! All the way!!!!

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Originally Posted by cmack91

well if your set on producing them yourself (and i say bravo to you), then buy females first since they take longer to mature

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Yeah, I'm a bit of a masochist :P I'd also feel more pride in my animal knowing I produced it, not that I bought it. Personal choice I guess.

And yeah - recently I had two of my Girls probe out as Boys x.x Fail. So now I have more males than females and I'm rather upset about it :/

I know the homozygous mojave has the dirty head but I thought the lesser + mojave was nearly as clean as the homozygous lesser?

I would go with the lesser + mojave anyway because that would give the option to produce mystic potions with the right pairings (not possible with a homozygous lesser).

Lesser Mojo

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...7/ALPHAWM1.jpg

Having a lesser / mojave BEL myself, I can say that she started out very pure clean white as a hatchling but has now developed yellowish color to her along the spine. She just doesn't look as clean as she used to. I also own a Russo White Diamond BEL. She came to me as a hatchling with a pale yellow line running down her spine, and at two years of age it is still there. From what I hear, that is just how White Diamonds are. If I ever get another BEL, I want it to be a super lesser / super butter, because they are known to be the most clean and pure white type of BEL.

I'm a fan of leucistics with some pattern, so I'd shoot for a leche(phantom x mocha) or a super ember. Both are pretty amazing animals.

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Originally Posted by wendhend

If I ever get another BEL, I want it to be a super lesser / super butter, because they are known to be the most clean and pure white type of BEL.

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Hmm. I wonder if anyone has any pictures of adults? All I've seen is babies/juvies.

Every Super Lesser I saw at the Pomona show was bug eyed.

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Originally Posted by jinx667

Every Super Lesser I saw at the Pomona show was bug eyed.

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Hmm, that's definitely something to think about.

If I was to get a Mojo x Lesser pair - which should I get as male/female? Male Mojo? Male Lesser? Other way around?

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Originally Posted by Xotik

Hmm, that's definitely something to think about.

If I was to get a Mojo x Lesser pair - which should I get as male/female? Male Mojo? Male Lesser? Other way around?

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I would get a female mojave since its cheaper than a female lesser.

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Originally Posted by Orijin0XazN

I would get a female mojave since its cheaper than a female lesser.

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Yeah I saw that - but I'm wondering if there would be more/less genetic potential if I got one of them a certain gender.

I like Mojave X butter/lesser BEL's

Or anything with the Phantom/Mystic gene in it.

I think it depends on your breeding plans. Whether to get a lesser male or female vice versa. If you went with a male lesser you could pair him with more females if you prefer the lesser gene.

I want so many that I'm trying to MAKE breeding plans! :P

I'm kinda interested in Mystic Potions, very interested in BELs (hence the topic), and I kinda want something that I can maybe breed into my Pied's eventually. That's about as far as I've figured out. I'm also looking at Cinnys too, but I'm not sure yet.

If you want Mystic Potions then I would get a female Mojave and raise her up. Then pick up a male lesser,and male mystic since they are much cheaper than their female counterparts.

And since you have normal females, you could pair them both to them as well and make more Lessers / Mystics. =D More Mystics is always a good thing.

So a Female Mojave or two, a male lesser and a male mystic. Maybe another female normal or two?

With that I'm assuming I can make BEL's, Lessers, Mystics and Normals? Am I missing anything?

BELS, Lesser, Mojave, Mystic, Mystic Potions, And normals.

Awesome. Now to find the snakes...:P

If you're trying to find some, and you didn't already know about these sites, I'd recommend www.kingsnake.com and www.faunaclassifieds.com because they almost always have what you're looking for. Also, it would be useful to search the person you want to buy from on the faunaclassified BOI, it could save you from being scammed.

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Originally Posted by Kittycatpenut

If you're trying to find some, and you didn't already know about these sites, I'd recommend www.kingsnake.com and www.faunaclassifieds.com because they almost always have what you're looking for. Also, it would be useful to search the person you want to buy from on the faunaclassified BOI, it could save you from being scammed.

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Thanks :) I don't use kingsnake, but I do look at fauna in a fairly..daily basis :P And I've bought snakes before, though I'm considering just waiting till April before getting any new snakes. Reptile shows, all the QT snakes I have now will be out and my QT will be empty...yadayada.

The big thing I'm doing now is familiarizing myself with the morphs and making sure I know what I should look for in each morph.

I'm on fauna a lot too, especially the boi, but I've never posted anything.:P If you want to learn more about morphs, you might want to check out www.worldofballpythons.com, they have over 1,000 morphs listed and a genetics calculator.

Sometime after March I'll be getting some snakes either at a show or online, specifically a female fire, mojave, vanilla, spotnose, and some normals, and in a few years I'll have both types of bels. :)

To the OP:

Congratulations to you for wanting to produce your own BEL! Me too, lol! I recently bought a Butter Pastel female and a Vanilla Mojave male to pair her with when they're old enough (no pictures on this computer, dang work!). As someone else said, you can't go wrong with a female mojave and then crossing her with a male mystic! Not a BEL, obviously, but Mystic Potions...wow! :rolleye2:. If I had the money, I'd have gotten all four of the ingredients to produce both the Mystic Potion and BEL...and I may yet, if my credit card doesn't catch fire first, lol!; can't go wrong with a BEL or a Mystic Potion!

Good luck whatever you decide and hope it turns out for you. Take care! :gj:

Thanks guys! :)

I'm addicted to WOBP already. Rarely do I close the tab :P I'm always looking up combos and stuff. It's so addicting.

I can't wait till my tax returns get here :P Then have the patience to wait till April xD

I am a fan of the BEL complex and for eventually making BELs of my own, I took a bit of a short cut.

I have this guy: Lesser Mojo BEL
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...7/ALPHAWM1.jpg

And this gal: Pastel Phantom
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2.../SIERRAWM1.jpg

So I can make Karmas, Pastel Karmas, Purple Passions and Deep Purple Passions

And with this gal, I can make Super Mojos and more Lesser Mojo BELs

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...WHISKEYWM1.jpg

Always great to have options!

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Originally Posted by jinx667

I am a fan of the BEL complex and for eventually making BELs of my own, I took a bit of a short cut.

I have this guy: Lesser Mojo BEL
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...7/ALPHAWM1.jpg

And this gal: Pastel Phantom
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2.../SIERRAWM1.jpg

So I can make Karmas, Pastel Karmas, Purple Passions and Deep Purple Passions

And with this gal, I can make Super Mojos and more Lesser Mojo BELs

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...WHISKEYWM1.jpg

Always great to have options!

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I literally drool everytime i see your jigsaw :O
Also ive read through this whole thread and havent seen this answered but what combo makes the whitest BEL? Jinx your mojoxlesser looks really clean...

He has a VERY faint yellow dorsal stripe that will likely darken as he gets older. I think whitest is kinda luck. I will be interested to see if I can pull off a Pastel Karma. Not sure if the pastel will fade any yellowing or intensify it, or just be un-noticeable.

Jinx - that last beauty made me "Sigh" :P She's drop dead gorgeous <3

I'm wondering if it might be easier to cut down on the number of males and get 1 lesserxbutter BEL male, and then get Mojo Females? Then eventually get a male Mystic to make Mystic Potions too?

And a whole new question that arose - youbeyouibei has a Pastel Butter and a Vanilla Mojave - does it matter if its got more than just the one gene? I understand it'll be more expensive (potentially) but it doesn't matter if you mix more than just the "correct" two ingredients?
I put it into the WOBP wizard and got 1/16 for all the combinations of the 4 genetics - but none were BELs?

Genetic Wizard 3.0 calculations by
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/gfx/logo.png

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Originally Posted by Xotik

Jinx - that last beauty made me "Sigh" :P She's drop dead gorgeous <3

I'm wondering if it might be easier to cut down on the number of males and get 1 lesserxbutter BEL male, and then get Mojo Females? Then eventually get a male Mystic to make Mystic Potions too?

And a whole new question that arose - youbeyouibei has a Pastel Butter and a Vanilla Mojave - does it matter if its got more than just the one gene? I understand it'll be more expensive (potentially) but it doesn't matter if you mix more than just the "correct" two ingredients?
I put it into the WOBP wizard and got 1/16 for all the combinations of the 4 genetics - but none were BELs?

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There are BELs on the list. The butterXmojave for instance, look on the description page it is listed as its aka.

For those that want to make both Potions and BELs in one clutch , I would get a Lesser Mojo BEL and a Mystic or Phantom. Pretty decent odds there, and not too much more expensive than getting a Lesser, Mojo and a Mystic/Phantom, also zero normals. But less eggs with only one female, so there are several different ways to skin a cat.