To those who are trying to figure out their diet...

I have been reading some of the threads regarding weight loss and diet and I offer this article to those looking to change their current way of eating.

The Dirt on Clean Eating
http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-n...-clean-eating/

(and the author even said to please forgive the protein powder product plug in the article)

I giggled a little.

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Originally Posted by Clear

I giggled a little.

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why is that?

Most of his sources came from the same institute that said pizza is a vegatable.

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Originally Posted by Clear

Most of his sources came from the same institute that said pizza is a vegatable.

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When it comes to vitamin composition, there is no difference between a bowl of cooked vegetables and vegetables on a pizza. Pizza can be a very good food for people trying to increase their muscle mass. Depending on how it is made and what is on it, it can be composed of complex carbohydrates, vegetables, proteins and healthy fats (which a necessity for a balanced diet, and for testosterone production). Considering the site is "wannabebig.com," I can understand why they may recommend getting your vegetable consumption from pizza.

As for the article itself, I haven't had an opportunity to read it over completely to evaluate the content. But it is important for everyone to research any information you read and to check out the sources of any article you come across. There is a lot of false information out there based on something referred to as "bro-science."

*** bro-science: Information that is incorrect, but is accepted as fact by the general fitness community because of the frequency in which the information is presented as fact. (We see this in the reptile community as well with various issues)

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Originally Posted by Clear

Most of his sources came from the same institute that said pizza is a vegatable.

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Regardless, do you disagree with any of his points?

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Originally Posted by decensored

When it comes to vitamin composition, there is no difference between a bowl of cooked vegetables and vegetables on a pizza. Pizza can be a very good food for people trying to increase their muscle mass. Depending on how it is made and what is on it, it can be composed of complex carbohydrates, vegetables, proteins and healthy fats (which a necessity for a balanced diet, and for testosterone production). Considering the site is "wannabebig.com," I can understand why they may recommend getting your vegetable consumption from pizza.

As for the article itself, I haven't had an opportunity to read it over completely to evaluate the content. But it is important for everyone to research any information you read and to check out the sources of any article you come across. There is a lot of false information out there based on something referred to as "bro-science."

*** bro-science: Information that is incorrect, but is accepted as fact by the general fitness community because of the frequency in which the information is presented as fact. (We see this in the reptile community as well with various issues)

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Even though this was on "Wanna be big" this article was done by Alan Aragon and if you knew anything about him he is as anti "bro" as they come.

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Originally Posted by djansen

Regardless, do you disagree with any of his points?

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I do not disagree based on the sources he stated. I read the article earlier and dont really recall many of the main facts so I wont put together a post on it. One part I do remember that I thought he left out a lot of valuable information on was "carbs have a bad rap". In fact, it is misleading because carbs are in fruits and veggies. Overall I would take this article as someone pushing his own affiliate product to make money.

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Originally Posted by Clear

I do not disagree based on the sources he stated. I read the article earlier and dont really recall many of the main facts so I wont put together a post on it. One part I do remember that I thought he left out a lot of valuable information on was "carbs have a bad rap". In fact, it is misleading because carbs are in fruits and veggies. Overall I would take this article as someone pushing his own affiliate product to make money.

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what? I don't get what you are saying.

and he is not pushing anything to make money, the protein powder part was added by the site using the article.

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Originally Posted by djansen

Regardless, do you disagree with any of his points?


Even though this was on "Wanna be big" this article was done by Alan Aragon and if you knew anything about him he is as anti "bro" as they come.

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I'm not familiar with him.. I did read over the article over the last hour or so and a lot of what he wrote contained solid info. It's important to remember that it is geared more towards the bodybuilding community however there is some great info for everyone in there. I am a firm believer in cheat meals and moderate "dirty eating." Your body can only maintain a healthy catabolic state for so long before you start doing muscle tissue and organ damage.

My only criticism with this article is that it is written for people who are knowledgeable and familiar with basic and intermediate nutritional terminology. Someone with no background or experience in this field would be completely lost. I even found myself having to do some research to understand some points.

It is a good read though, thanks for sharing!

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Originally Posted by Clear

I do not disagree based on the sources he stated. I read the article earlier and dont really recall many of the main facts so I wont put together a post on it. One part I do remember that I thought he left out a lot of valuable information on was "carbs have a bad rap". In fact, it is misleading because carbs are in fruits and veggies. Overall I would take this article as someone pushing his own affiliate product to make money.

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How can argue against an article that you don't remember..

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Originally Posted by djansen

what? I don't get what you are saying.

and he is not pushing anything to make money, the protein powder part was added by the site using the article.

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x2

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Originally Posted by decensored

I'm not familiar with him.. I did read over the article over the last hour or so and a lot of what he wrote contained solid info. It's important to remember that it is geared more towards the bodybuilding community however there is some great info for everyone in there. I am a firm believer in cheat meals and moderate "dirty eating." Your body can only maintain a healthy catabolic state for so long before you start doing muscle tissue and organ damage.
Even though it is geared to the fitness community everything does hold true to anyone setting up a diet. Out of curiosity what do you mean by a healthy catabolic state? and how does it apply to what he is suggesting?
My only criticism with this article is that it is written for people who are knowledgeable and familiar with basic and intermediate nutritional terminology. Someone with no background or experience in this field would be completely lost. I even found myself having to do some research to understand some points.

It is a good read though, thanks for sharing!

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I will give you that, but I feel like most people should be able to grasp the main concepts.
and your welcome!:)

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Originally Posted by djansen

I will give you that, but I feel like most people should be able to grasp the main concepts.
and your welcome!:)

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By healthy catabolic state I simply meant catabloism. If your in a constant state of catobolism your breaking down more muscle tissue than fat in the long run and doing more damage than good. That's part of why ketogenic diets are so dangerous.

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Originally Posted by decensored

By healthy catabolic state I simply meant catabloism. If your in a constant state of catobolism your breaking down more muscle tissue than fat in the long run and doing more damage than good. That's part of why ketogenic diets are so dangerous.

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Ok, I see.

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Originally Posted by decensored

How can argue against an article that you don't remember..

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Thats simply why I didnt give any real arguements against it. :confuzd:
The section I stated was about the only part I remember correctly.

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Originally Posted by Clear

Thats simply why I didnt give any real arguements against it. :confuzd:
The section I stated was about the only part I remember correctly.

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again, I don't understand about what you were saying about the section you stated. How is it misleading? could you please elaborate?

Sure, whenever something says low-carb it is totally misleading. These low-carb diets limit your grain intake mostly (majority of an average americans carb intake comes from grains) but what most people forget, veggies are also carb dense. (Not as dense as grains by far) I have never read a diet that said to limit your veggie intake :P

This small rant isnt all about that one article, its a general rant. When people speak of low-carb they generally mean low grain intake and wished that this label would change.

Has anyone else noticed that if you follow the food pyramid that over the years it has focused more and more on dairy and grains yet the general population keeps getting larger? Or the fact that dairy and grain farmers recieve huge subsidaries and the government pushes more people to consum them?

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Originally Posted by Clear

Sure, whenever something says low-carb it is totally misleading. These low-carb diets limit your grain intake mostly (majority of an average americans carb intake comes from grains) but what most people forget, veggies are also carb dense. (Not as dense as grains by far) I have never read a diet that said to limit your veggie intake :P

Aside from Potatoes, corn, yams, carrots and beans - most veggies do not have a HUGE amount of carbohydrates in them. Yes there are carbs in vegitables but not enough to be considered an appropriate source. Limiting your carbs and cutting carbs out completely are two different things.. there are diets that do cut out carbs completely, they are called Ketegenic diets (such as the Atkins diet), and are unhealthy. The reason people cut breads and starches from their diets is because those foods are very dense in carbohydrates.

This small rant isnt all about that one article, its a general rant. When people speak of low-carb they generally mean low grain intake and wished that this label would change.

I disagree. When i diet i take into consideration the nutritional content of everything i put into my body. This includes vegetables and their carbohydrate makeup. In my experience people who follow actual diet plans usually follow the same logic. People who are focused and committed to a diet tend to do their research. I don't know anyone who eats enough vegetables to make themselves fat off of the carb content. I also don't know anyone who eats nothing but beans and potatoes thinking they are eating healthy vegetables..

Has anyone else noticed that if you follow the food pyramid that over the years it has focused more and more on dairy and grains yet the general population keeps getting larger? Or the fact that dairy and grain farmers recieve huge subsidaries and the government pushes more people to consum them?

Nobody follows the food pyramid.. that's why there is an issue with national obesity. Your not going to get fat because you eat healthy carbs, dairy and veggies.. People get fat because there is a McDonalds on every street corner - and people have no self control.

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We will simply have to agree to disagree.

Ok, I am going to try and address both of you here:

Clear: I know we have different views on dairy and grains so I am not going to argue with you about them. In fact, I would actually agree that sedentary people should limit or reduce their grain intake. For athletes or active individuals I would still make grains a large part of the diet though if preferred. I say this because while grains are a excellent source of carbohydrates they are NOT a very nutrient dense food for the amount of calories. So I would choose to eat grains based on my carbohydrate requirements. If you can reach your carbohydrate goals using other means then grains by all means go for it, I am not saying they are essential at all just not something to be feared (provided no intolerance, and this is where we disagree:))

decensored: Are you saying beans and potatoes are unhealthy vegetables? And when you say healthy carbs are you referring to nutrient dense sources of carbs or types of carbs like simple or complex?
And while not likely it is possible to get fat of carbs, dairy and veggies. calories in vs calories out and some peoples caloric limit is pretty low.

And I don't blame the food pyramid, McDonald's (or any restaurant for that matter), or any source of food such as refined sugar, HFCS, or Trans fats for the growing rate of obesity in America.
This falls directly on us as people living in a time where we have so many choices its unbelievable. You ask some random Joe off the street about how many calories he needs today and you will prob get a blank look 95% of the time. It amazes me how little most people know about nutrition (or fitness lol) when it is one of the most important things you will ever need to know. Its like you said, we have self control and due to the convenience factor and sheer laziness it is now easier then ever to pig out. Past generations had "unhealthy" foods as well as fast food, they just ate it as a treat rather then every day or two. And the real kicker is that they were active! I feel inactivity is the main culprit for the obesity epidemic. It makes me sick the amount of type 2 diabetic children that have lazy, ignorant, parents who allow them to overeat and just sit around. That was my hope in posting this article, some direction in getting started in creating a healthy diet that one can stick too and be healthy will all this crap information floating around.
Sorry, end rant.:cool:

I was working on an edit but it took longer than 10 mins so here goes.

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Aside from Potatoes, corn, yams, carrots and beans - most veggies do not have a HUGE amount of carbohydrates in them. Yes there are carbs in vegitables but not enough to be considered an appropriate source. The reason people cut breads and starches from their diets is because those foods are very dense in carbohydrates.

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I disagree. When i diet i take into consideration the nutritional content of everything i put into my body. This includes vegetables and their carbohydrate makeup. In my experience people who follow actual diet plans usually follow the same logic. People who are focused and committed to a diet tend to do their research. I don't know anyone who eats enough vegetables to make themselves fat off of the carb content. I also don't know anyone who eats nothing but beans and potatoes thinking they are eating healthy vegetables..

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No they do not have huge amount of carbs and are a great source for carbs and you answered why. Because you can eat ALL you want without getting fat. Now grains on the other hand, you have to limit your intake, why? Because if you dont you will get fat. Lets put two and two together.

Veggies wont make you fat no matter how many you eat.
Grains will make you fat if you dont limit them. (All grains)

Veggies = Good
Grains = Bad

Content should be considered and the affect it has on your body. Here are 3 simple reasons why you should avoid grains. Lectins, Gluten and Phytates.

You put too much hope in this world. People do not research anything, they do what they are told. They see commercials such as weight watchers, hydroxy cut and so many others and think this stuff is healthy. Its not. Rarely do people do real research on health and diets, besides the before and after pictures of extreme cases when some diets work. Real research would mean weeks of studing how your body works and why you get fat. (I have posted a few video's already to help cut down on the amount of time people would have to study)

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Nobody follows the food pyramid.. that's why there is an issue with national obesity. Your not going to get fat because you eat healthy carbs, dairy and veggies.. People get fat because there is a McDonalds on every street corner - and people have no self control.

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People do not follow the food pyramid to a T. People do see that the government wants you to eat more whole grains and more dairy and they think this is healthy and will go out and eat more. So to an extent they do follow the food pyramid. I can not disagree about McDonalds and the other millions of fast food chains that have extremely unhealthy food.

I associate myself with paleo not because I follow its guidelines but because it fits closely to mine. Meats, veggies, some seeds, some fruit. We do our best to avoid grains, legumes, refined sugars, dairy products, and supplements.

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Originally Posted by Clear

No they do not have huge amount of carbs and are a great source for carbs and you answered why. Because you can eat ALL you want without getting fat. Now grains on the other hand, you have to limit your intake, why? Because if you dont you will get fat. Lets put two and two together.

Veggies wont make you fat no matter how many you eat.
Grains will make you fat if you dont limit them. (All grains)

Veggies = Good
Grains = Bad

Content should be considered and the affect it has on your body. Here are 3 simple reasons why you should avoid grains. Lectins, Gluten and Phytates.

You put too much hope in this world. People do not research anything, they do what they are told. They see commercials such as weight watchers, hydroxy cut and so many others and think this stuff is healthy. Its not. Rarely do people do real research on health and diets, besides the before and after pictures of extreme cases when some diets work. Real research would mean weeks of studing how your body works and why you get fat. (I have posted a few video's already to help cut down on the amount of time people would have to study)



People do not follow the food pyramid to a T. People do see that the government wants you to eat more whole grains and more dairy and they think this is healthy and will go out and eat more. So to an extent they do follow the food pyramid. I can not disagree about McDonalds and the other millions of fast food chains that have extremely unhealthy food.

I associate myself with paleo not because I follow its guidelines but because it fits closely to mine. Meats, veggies, some seeds, some fruit. We do our best to avoid grains, legumes, refined sugars, dairy products, and supplements.

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Phytates

Alan makes a good point about phytates:

'"Cereals are the primary sources of copper, manganese, and selenium in most diets and the major source of zinc in many vegetarian diets; flesh floods are the primary source of zinc and secondary source of selenium in omnivorous diets. Despite the apparent lower bioavailability of zinc, copper, manganese, and selenium in vegetarian diets because of the high contents of phytic acid and/or dietary fiber and the low content of flesh foods in the diet, the trace element status of most adult vegetarians appears to be adequate." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8172126

"Although it is clear that vegetarians have lower iron stores, adverse health effects from lower iron and zinc absorption have not been demonstrated with varied vegetarian diets in developed countries, and moderately lower iron stores have even been hypothesized to reduce the risk of chronic diseases." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12936958

"In conclusion, wheat products, except for wheat bran, do not have a negative impact on calcium absorption from the diet." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1941185

"In conclusion, the absorption of zinc was high and not affected by addition of oat bran." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10702590

"Addition of 16 g bran/d to the diet does not seem to impair the mineral absorption from the small intestine except that of Zn." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6288067

"It is concluded that wheat bran and, in particular, the cell-wall polysaccharides of bran, are unlikely to exert a significant effect on mineral absorption in man, in amounts customarily eaten, independently of the effect of phytate present in the bran." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6315050

"Plasma lipids, serum magnesium, ghrelin, and adiponectin concentrations, as well as substrate utilization and body weight, were not significantly changed by fiber intake." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16567814'


Gluten and Gut Permeability

Anyway, let's see human research on the effect of grains on gut permeability:

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1741-7015/9/23/abstract

"This study shows that the two gluten-associated disorders, CD and GS, are different clinical entities, and it contributes to the characterization of GS as a condition associated with prevalent gluten-induced activation of innate, rather than adaptive, immune responses in the absence of detectable changes in mucosal barrier function."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21224837

'"Non-celiac gluten intolerance" may exist, but no clues to the mechanism were elucidated.'


Here are some blogs posts by my favorite () blog poster, Chris Masterjohn:

http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.c...t-ex-vivo.html
http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.c...mises-and.html
http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.c...onulin-is.html
http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.c...y-shorter.html

Gluten is absorbed by healthy people.

Lectins

I've been researching lectins for the past four months -- they really are a fascinating subject. Anyway, while the research is scarce, I did find a lot of interesting material on this subject.

Anyway, the evidence that lectins are bad for you is very weak, and some studies actually show benefit to some lectins, especially in cancer prevention -- even WGA, the most feared of lectins, might have health benefits:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10468292
http://www.springerlink.com/content/fv2kp863u1177q5l/
https://www.novapublishers.com/catal...ducts_id=18877
http://abstracts.aspb.org/pb2011/public/P18/P18005.html
http://www.jstor.org/pss/20172275

This was taken from here:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...luten+Phytates.

Great post and I am glad that you have researched all this. What it shows is two different people can read different studies and come out with different opinions. With my profession I have to think negative about almost all blogs and forums and rarely keep up with them. (I even have problems with marks daily apple) I also never take anything the government posts seriously. We all know they manipulate people more than the free market. :salute:

:gj:

It was a bit wordy and most of it was over my head. Maybe I need to start with lighter reading first. :confused:

It is very easy for this stuff to go over someones head. Thats why I said it takes weeks to study, not just hours! You can read a scientific study and be like whoa new words and spend hours learning what they mean.