Thermostat question

I just got a homemade tank from my friend. It came with a radiant 40w heat panel & a thermostat. I have the thermostat set at 94 & the warm side only gets to 86. Can I raise the thermostat up to increase the temp? Just asking because I don't want to burn my snakes. Thanks


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You should buy a temperature gun or good thermometer. Its hard to go off of only the thermostat as a source.

If u have a reliable thermometer that is reading low u can turn it up. But check for hot spots because it could read much higher in different spots and that will cause burns. I had my racks set for 96-98 to achieve a good hot spot

Ok. I have a temp gun already. Today I woke up & the thermostat said 79. Temp gun said hottest part was 83. I mean if I move it up to 99. Will it keep it at a safe temp all the time? I mean thought the thermostat would regulate the heat auto.


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That's what it's supposed to do. Where is the probe for the thermostat in relation to the heat panel?

It's right under the heat panel. The panel is attached to the top & the probe is under it about 1" from the bottom. So keep raising the thermostat up to get the tank temp where I need? I would say it would have to be set at 100 to get the tank to 90-91. Is this correct? I thought if I set it at 91 it will make the tank 91 then shut off then back on as needed.


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I have my Helix thermostat set to 100 in my back heat rack and my racks are in the low 90s on the hot side.

I also have a rack with a Rancho right now that I leave at 92. It gets hotter than 92 since it's not a proportional stat so I don't set it any higher than 92. I have measured 94 in the tub on the hot side when it was heating up.

It is possible that the heat panel can't get the enclosure to the proper temp. Can you see how much power is being sent to the heat panel? If not you could pull your snake out and plug the panel directly into the wall and see how hot it gets.

RHP are designed to generate verticle heat gradients not horizontal ones. It is quite likely that the 40w isn't enough power and also likely that if you went with a higher wattage you world have a heat unit inside the enclosure that was well over 100ºF. I suspect that the room temp is quite low and that is adding to the issues you are having. Is there any way to re-configure the system you are using? Maybe using the RHP as an ambient heater and adding a UTH as a hot spot heating unit might work better.

Well I moved the probe & it seems to be working fine now. It's a homemade tank so UTH is a no good. I'll post pictures soon.


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As you can see the thermostat probe comes into the tank from the top, and goes down to the ground. It's right next to the hot side hide. I also have a rock in front of the hide. It holds heat nice. IT'S NOT A HEAT ROCK! Before people assume it is.

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/m...T/IMG_1242.jpg

when i had it taped to the back wall it was giving my lower readings.

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/m...NBPT/003-7.jpg

I have heard of aluminum tape messing with thermostat probe readings so maybe that was your issue.

Interesting. I'll try without it & reply back.


Kevin

I'd advise against ANY tape inside the enclosure. Snakes sometimes get caught in it and well it often turns out bad. I use hot melt glue and return the snake once it has cooled it can be broken if needed and is non toxic and poses no risk once set and cool.

"Do not use aluminum tape to secure the probes. This will cause false readings and poor regulation.
If possible route the probe wires so that they are not in direct contact with the 120vac cables going to the heating devices. Preferably leave at least a few inches between the probe wires and the AC lines to avoid cross talk/electrical interference issues."

From the spider robotics herpstat 4 manual last page.

Ok thanks for the information.


Kevin

Tape inside the enclosure is definitely problematic. It is bound to peel up, then the snake rubs against it, rubs some more, and skin distaster.

However, it is probably MORE problematic to not secure the probe properly. If all you are doing is wedging it under the hide spot, you are courting super disaster.

If the probe gets moved, and it will, your thermo could run your heat source FULL BLAST, trying to get the probe "back to temp".

The snake will snag the probe wire, and end up pulling it across the cage, initiating this chain of events. The same type of problem happens when folks don't secure the probe inside their incubator properly. It gets snagged out, or just falls out, then the thermo runs the incubator up to 150F trying to get the probe (now outside the incubator) back to temp, killing all the eggs.

We use zip ties to secure the probes inside incubators and enclosures. Be sure to use SOMETHING to make it secure, just not tape : )

Best of luck!

I use hot glue and it works great.

Where is the best location for the probe? I mean under the radiant eat panel, but need ideas on location for my snake doesn't lay on it. This has happened & it messes with the temps.


Kevin

I tried on the back wall. My radiant heat panel is off the back wall by 1"-2". So it's not right under it. I put it on the ground but it messes up when my snake lays on it.


Kevin

On the inside top of the hide? I don't know where else it could be really it will be a pain to clean there but that is where it makes the most sense if it were on the face of the panel ambient temps would change the hide temp dramatically. I might be tempted to run a fail safe too attached to the panel (failsafe probe) and set to 100ºF or so so incase the panel got too much hotter it would shut down and not risk a burn.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

On the inside top of the hide? I don't know where else it could be really it will be a pain to clean there but that is where it makes the most sense if it were on the face of the panel ambient temps would change the hide temp dramatically. I might be tempted to run a fail safe too attached to the panel (failsafe probe) and set to 100ºF or so so incase the panel got too much hotter it would shut down and not risk a burn.

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I don't think he needs a second probe in this case. RHPs are pretty safe, and I've yet to hear of one going up in flames.

I just hate seeing temps of anything inside an enclosure of over 100º there is another post where someone is speaking of the RHP being over 120º. I would seriously be concerned by that kind of temp inside an enclosure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

I just hate seeing temps of anything inside an enclosure of over 100º there is another post where someone is speaking of the RHP being over 120º. I would seriously be concerned by that kind of temp inside an enclosure.

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I would be as well. But I think that in general RHP are safe. I would put a thermometer probe on it, so I could see what the surface temperature is but I don't think a second thermostat is needed unless he sees that it is getting too hot.

So I'm back to this topic. I'm very confused. My thermostat has a probe that's about 1" of the bedding under the RHP. When I use my temp gun it says it's 90. But thermostat is set for 85. That means the ambient temp is 85 & surface temp is 90? My cool side digital thermometer says 76. I just got a red tail boa. Just want to make sure I understand.


Kevin

It doesn't mean ambient is 85, it just means your thermo is set to 85. Your concern is that ACTUAL TEMP that the animal has access to.

Your temp gun gives you the actual temp of 90. Sounds great, sounds like you are right on target.

Your thermostat setting is RELATIVE to the actual cage temp produced, according to all of the variables of distance, substrate, cage material etc.

Ok my friend had this custom setup which I purchased. He had the probe secured on the back wall 1" off the bedding. It's not directly under the RHP. But he has tons of snakes & said that's the best way. So my temp gun reads 90-94 right under the RHP but he says it's fine. Can you confirm this?


Kevin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NormalBallPythons

Ok my friend had this custom setup which I purchased. He had the probe secured on the back wall 1" off the bedding. It's not directly under the RHP. But he has tons of snakes & said that's the best way. So my temp gun reads 90-94 right under the RHP but he says it's fine. Can you confirm this?


Kevin

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I would definatly put the probe under the RHP. If you want to keep it on the wall you will probably have to run the thermostat a few degrees under the temperature that you want.

Ok well the thermostat is set for 85 & with my temp gun it says 90-94 when I scan around. Should I use digital thermometer instead of my gun?


Kevin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NormalBallPythons

Ok well the thermostat is set for 85 & with my temp gun it says 90-94 when I scan around. Should I use digital thermometer instead of my gun?


Kevin

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Digital thermoneters and temp guns usually have the same amount of error (+/- 2 degrees) a digital thermometer has the advantage of always being there which makes it easier to moniter, but a temp gun will tell you the same thing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NormalBallPythons

Ok my friend had this custom setup which I purchased. He had the probe secured on the back wall 1" off the bedding. It's not directly under the RHP. But he has tons of snakes & said that's the best way. So my temp gun reads 90-94 right under the RHP but he says it's fine. Can you confirm this?


Kevin

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i have the same heat panel and hide ... i placed mine through the back wall half way up the height of the hide set tstat at 92 ( thnxs serp merch ) i had an another probe thermometer to test temp inside the hide and the temps were identicle ...whats the distance from panel to floor ???

The temp in the hide is ok. It's the temp around the outside of the hide. The bedding is warmer. So you have your thermostat on the back wall too? The RHP is about 1" of the back wall. The tank is 2' high.


Kevin

So turn down my thermostat then correct? Like its at 85 now. Temp. Gun says 90-94. So make the thermostat 80 & check?


Kevin

I would try 83

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NormalBallPythons

The temp in the hide is ok. It's the temp around the outside of the hide. The bedding is warmer. So you have your thermostat on the back wall too? The RHP is about 1" of the back wall. The tank is 2' high.


Kevin

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yeah mine is on the back was through a drilled hole ....im surprised you're getting temps that high , mine is 18" high and i shimmed my panel down 2" to get better overall temps ...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mshadows

yeah mine is on the back was through a drilled hole ....im surprised you're getting temps that high , mine is 18" high and i shimmed my panel down 2" to get better overall temps ...

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oh and I spent a couple of weeks monitoring temps and humidity from all areas of the enclosure before moving in shadows in .....

Ok I picked up new digital thermometers tonight. Comes to find out my temp gun isn't correct. It's saying 94. The new digital thermometer says 87.8. That's with my thermostat set at 85. I put it at 88 which should put temp at 90.8


Kevin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

Digital thermoneters and temp guns usually have the same amount of error (+/- 2 degrees) a digital thermometer has the advantage of always being there which makes it easier to moniter, but a temp gun will tell you the same thing.

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Tangent alert- It is actually not the same thing. A temp gun measures SURFACE temperatures. A digital thermo with probe measures AIR temperatures. They can be drastically different, depending on the setup/application.

This is especially critical and important when you are seeking a measurement at a spot directly affected by a device providing heat or cooling- outside an AC vent, directly above a heat pad, directly under a light.

A surface may be 120F, measured with a temp gun. A probe just 1/8" away from the surface, not quite touching, may read that "same spot" as 92F. And both are accurate- the surface is significantly hotter than the air.

Folks try and get the probe as close to the surface or spot as possible, but that is not going to give you as accurate a reading as actually taking the surface temperature.

Digital thermos with probes are great for reading ambient temps, air temps, but a temp gun is def the proper tool for measuring surface temps- hot spots, cold spots, substrate temps, etc.

This is a subtle but important distinction.

Or so the readings the thermometers are:
Hot side under RHP: 87.7
Cool side: 77.0

Thermostat set at 86.

Temp gun: 96.4





Kevin

http://img.tapatalk.com/62d870f9-bfa5-154f.jpg

The picture above shows my setup. Temp gun says 96.4 on the hot spot. Thermometer says 87.
So I lowered my tstat to 83. It was set at 87 when the temp gun read 96.

Well now my tstat is at 83. Thermometer on hot side says 83.6 thermometer cool side says 78.9 temp gun says 90-92 hot spot. I'm all set, right?

That sounds good, yes.