Feeding a captive snake wild mice?

I'm asking this question for my mother in law to be....
She has a mouse problem in her attic.
I have snakes that eat mice.
But, my snakes are in captivity, and have only eaten mice that were also bred in captivity.
Apart from knowing these mice are in the attic, I don't know what they eat or what health they are in.
Mother in law to be wanted to know if I can feed these mice to my snake, if she catches any. I said probably not, since they could have diseases my snakes have no immunity to, since they're not in the wild as well.
Was this the right answer?
I'd appreciate any insight you can offer.
Thanks,
Shellie

I've been seeing this question an uncomfortable amount of times lately :rolleyes:

Wild mice are riddled with disease and parasites...would you really feed that to your snakes? I'd say your answer was correct.

Sorry, computer is very very slow, can not browse through pages at the moment to see other threads like this, I'm lucky the create thread page loaded as it is :rofl:
that's what i was thinking as well, i just wanted to double check because that would be a perfect solution if the mice were healthy, but i doubt they are
thank you and sorry for duplicate question :p

Definitely not. Disease, parasites, and potentially hazardous chemicals that they have ingested either by chewing on crap around the house, or actually eating poisoned rodent bait.

I asked this question a couple weeks ago and I will tell you what everyone told me. Wild mice carry diseases and parasites, don't do it!

very much appreciated, now i dont feel like a dum-dum since i know i made the right decision :)

As everyone else has said, you said the right thing? You could tell her it is less work and money for you to just buy feeder mice. My question would be how would she catch them and keep them to give them to you to feed off.

I would like to chime in on this thread because every person I see speaking on this topic says the same thing: "Wild mice could have parasites and diseases that could hurt your snake!!!!" etc.

First of all, reptiles cannot get certain diseases that mammals can. I am certainty not an expert on this subject, but until I see someone posting some laboratory research on this topic of which parasites and diseases you are talking about and showing that said parasites and diseases are harmful to reptiles I am going to be skeptical about it. Snakes in the wild eat wild mice exclusively and people have witnessed plenty of adult snakes so there is at least some proof snakes can eat wild mice. They have highly acidic digestive systems that I can only imagine will disinfect much of what they eat even if it was diseased. It is hard for me to imagine that feeding a captive snake a few wild mice every now and then will effect it's health too much. Furthermore, just like any animal they have immune systems. Snakes have a tolerance for parasites and bacteria that they ingest every day. Nothing is 100% sanitary. Snakes must be at least somewhat resistant to diseases they encounter in the wild. They do have quite a long life span.

In the southeast we eat all kinds of wild animals that we cook thoroughly and no one ever gets sick from it. Perhaps if you really wanted to be sure you could boil cook the mice and then let them cool to serve to your snake as it would kill any parasites or bacteria living in them. You would probably have to make sure to use a thermometer to check the boiled mouses internals after though to make sure you weren't going to burn your snake. I think that underneath all these cliche responses is a reoccurring theme that eating anything from the wild is toxic and risky. I think people are too spoiled these days in thinking that everything is clean and sanitary coming from factories where things are made artificially while not realizing the FDA and other regulations allow for things like bug parts per million to be allowed into our food.

Would I feed wild mice to my snake? Perhaps I will experiment feeding wild mice to my regular regius and see how it goes. That is what actually lead me to this forum. I think I would try it since all I ever see is the same pretentious response that everyone gives without any supporting information.

http://i1254.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4cc5b5a4.jpg

It's ALIVE!!! Run away!!

I know this is a zombie thread, but it is important information.

GamerAgeDad, I think the number one concern about feeding wild mice is that you have no idea if they recently ate poison. That alone is enough to deter me. That single risk far outweighs ANY benefit.

True, wild snakes eat wild mice all the time, and deal with those parasites, but we don't know how many of those snakes die eventually from those parasites. A lot of it can be genetics, stress, etc. that allows one snake to deal with the same parasite load that would kill a different snake. And who's to say that with all the captive breeding, that our pet snakes have lost the ability to deal with wild parasites. I know that at my job as a vet tech, we sometimes see snakes with runny stool that have a heavy parasite load and have lost weight and/or have other issues going on, and all we do is treat for the parasite, and they are back to health.

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we eat all kinds of wild animals that we cook thoroughly and no one ever gets sick from it

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You are probably not eating the digestive/organ systems of these animals, which is where most of the "bad stuff" would be carried. And snakes can't digest cooked meat very well, and can lead to malnutrition. I know I've actually seen a study on that, I will try to find it again.

Rodents can pass on hook worms and pin worms to a BP. Worm infested BPs tend too go off feed and is just a pain in the butt to deal with and treat.
It's just better off not feeding wild animals to the snakes. Not to mention the mice who have been exposed to rat poisons and chemicals.

Why expose your captive snakes like that when there are other better options of food?


I personally de-worm my rat colony annually, so I know they're clean. I don't fancy parasite infested snakes.

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Originally Posted by satomi325

I personally de-worm my rat colony annually, so I know they're clean. I don't fancy parasite infested snakes.

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More detail. please? Hadn't heard of this, but it sounds like solid practice.

Thank you!

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Originally Posted by Shadera

More detail. please? Hadn't heard of this, but it sounds like solid practice.

Thank you!

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Ivermectin paste (comes in tubes for horses) from the feed store gets rid of all sorts of internal and external parasites. It's fantastic for worms.
A rice grain size dose for every breeder rat.

Okay, I know, I know, we're keeping the zombie alive...


But couldn't you worm a wild mouse/rat? And quarantine sufficiently to rule out poisoning/let the wormer run it's course? I know that after all that, it makes far more sense to just breed/buy, but I really see no reason why that practice couldn't be used. Anyone?

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Originally Posted by GamerAgeDad

In the southeast we eat all kinds of wild animals that we cook thoroughly and no one ever gets sick from it. Perhaps if you really wanted to be sure you could boil cook the mice and then let them cool to serve to your snake as it would kill any parasites or bacteria living in them. You would probably have to make sure to use a thermometer to check the boiled mouses internals after though to make sure you weren't going to burn your snake. I think that underneath all these cliche responses is a reoccurring theme that eating anything from the wild is toxic and risky. I think people are too spoiled these days in thinking that everything is clean and sanitary coming from factories where things are made artificially while not realizing the FDA and other regulations allow for things like bug parts per million to be allowed into our food.

Would I feed wild mice to my snake? Perhaps I will experiment feeding wild mice to my regular regius and see how it goes. That is what actually lead me to this forum. I think I would try it since all I ever see is the same pretentious response that everyone gives without any supporting information.

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Why would you want to risk contaminating your snake collection? That is just irresponsible. The reason you don't see people testing this is because they care about their collection and don't mind feeding them the best rodents they can. We also understand a wild rodent could potentially pass something to our collection and it is not worth it.

You showed your knowledge on this subject by suggesting to feed cooked rodents and comparing eating cooked food to raw.

Anya have you ever seen a wild mouse or rat that was as healthy as a raised feeder? They are usually much smaller and not nearly as big.

Your plan I think could work but you would still be left with inferior feeders.

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Originally Posted by KMG

You showed your knowledge on this subject by suggesting to feed cooked rodents and comparing eating cooked food to raw.

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No cooked food...? Wait are you telling me your bloods didn't like that rat soufflé and mouse quiche i sent?!

No, but I really enjoyed it!!!

i think the biggest problem is accidental poisoning. People poison mice and rats.

External parasites are no problem, because external parasites on rhodents are adapted to a hairy environment, they have claws to hang on to hairs and on a flat surface they stick out. They are vertically high, with all feets on the ground they are high and thin. Still rather flat, but in a different direction. Reptile parasites are vertically flat, and wide. Reptile parasites could not possibly attach to a hairy surface, they have the wrong shape.

That leaves internal parasites. Here i dont know anything.

i would take the mice, and keep them for 2-3 days, offering them water and appropriate rhodent food. If they dont die but thrive then they are unpoisoned, and then i would just go ahead and feed them. Internal parasites will often get killed by the digestive process, unless there are eggs that can resist the acids. And then it is still quite a leap from mammal to reptile.

Dead mice are of no use, and are in no way similar to frozen rats/mice from any halfway decent feeder breeder. If they live happily in your custody for a while it can be fine, except maybe for internal parasites, so its still a risk that maybe can be taken. But if they are dead, forget it, no way.

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

i think the biggest problem is accidental poisoning. People poison mice and rats.

External parasites are no problem, because external parasites on rhodents are adapted to a hairy environment, they have claws to hang on to hairs and on a flat surface they stick out. They are vertically high, with all feets on the ground they are high and thin. Still rather flat, but in a different direction. Reptile parasites are vertically flat, and wide. Reptile parasites could not possibly attach to a hairy surface, they have the wrong shape.

That leaves internal parasites. Here i dont know anything.

i would take the mice, and keep them for 2-3 days, offering them water and appropriate rhodent food. If they dont die but thrive then they are unpoisoned, and then i would just go ahead and feed them. Internal parasites will often get killed by the digestive process, unless there are eggs that can resist the acids. And then it is still quite a leap from mammal to reptile.

Dead mice are of no use, and are in no way similar to frozen rats/mice from any halfway decent feeder breeder. If they live happily in your custody for a while it can be fine, except maybe for internal parasites, so its still a risk that maybe can be taken. But if they are dead, forget it, no way.

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I recently had a snake that had an almost fatal issue with mammalian nematodes. The herp vet I go to is one of the top in the country (near a vet school) and they'd never seen anything like it. This happened after I fed some mice from a local small petstore that I believe may have had questionable freezing practices. I fed it to all my snakes, and only one got sick, but there's definitely a risk. Internal parasites and eggs are designed to survive the digestive system. That's how they become internal parasites.

The only way to for-sure kill internal parasites is to deep-freeze them for about three months (or do a de-worming med course... but that's so expensive, why bother?). That's how I've heard people treat w/c fish for fish-eaters. I'm from the southeast as well, and that's how every person I know who eats game meat, especially boar which has a high human parasite risk, eats w/c meat. The few I know who eat it fresh... Well, they aren't the sort who I trust to cook for me :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Anya

Okay, I know, I know, we're keeping the zombie alive...


But couldn't you worm a wild mouse/rat? And quarantine sufficiently to rule out poisoning/let the wormer run it's course? I know that after all that, it makes far more sense to just breed/buy, but I really see no reason why that practice couldn't be used. Anyone?

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You technically can QT and let the wormer run it's course, then feed off the rodent to the snake. But the time and effort being put into that one rodent isn't worth the meal in my opinion.

See, now was that so hard to have an intelligent discussion as to why it is risky to feed your snakes wild mice? Thank you for your insightful contributions. So what I have learned here is that there may be a decent procedure for feeding wild mice to your snakes. Many of you stated that your concerns were poisons. I would think that if you live in a rural area, one would know whether or not they put poison traps out to kill mice. I understand that mice could eat other chemicals, but at least if you live in an isolated area there is less risk that the mice are polluted if you know you don't use poison traps. Secondly, just as Pythonfriend said, if you keep the mice and feed them normal food for a while and they don't die, they are probably health and not poisoned. Lastly, DVirginiana commented if you let mice sit in the freezer for 3 months that parasites living on them would die. So there seems to be a good way of being able to harvest wild mice for feed if you feed them for a few days and deep freeze them for 3 months. After all if you live out in the country like I do, you can catch hundreds of them and why not use the free food?

As for those who personally attacked me about my reptile knowledge about cooking mice, well there is another myth that has yet to be confirmed or denied in my knowledge bank. Sita said that they have seen a study where it could lead to malnutrition, but I have not seen a link yet. I wouldn't doubt that it would lead to malnutrition, but without testing it I don't know whether or not it does and no one can have any knowledge without experiment. I am not a herpatology expert and nor do I claim to be, but I certainly don't appreciate nasty comments when I come here to expand my knowledge. My skepticism here has created a beautiful discussion and again, I thank all that have contributed to it as I have learned a lot from it.

- - - Updated - - -

See, now was that so hard to have an intelligent discussion as to why it is risky to feed your snakes wild mice? Thank you for your insightful contributions. So what I have learned here is that there may be a decent procedure for feeding wild mice to your snakes. Many of you stated that your concerns were poisons. I would think that if you live in a rural area, one would know whether or not they put poison traps out to kill mice. I understand that mice could eat other chemicals, but at least if you live in an isolated area there is less risk that the mice are polluted if you know you don't use poison traps. Secondly, just as Pythonfriend said, if you keep the mice and feed them normal food for a while and they don't die, they are probably health and not poisoned. Lastly, DVirginiana commented if you let mice sit in the freezer for 3 months that parasites living on them would die. So there seems to be a good way of being able to harvest wild mice for feed if you feed them for a few days and deep freeze them for 3 months. After all if you live out in the country like I do, you can catch hundreds of them and why not use the free food?

As for those who personally attacked me about my reptile knowledge about cooking mice, well there is another myth that has yet to be confirmed or denied in my knowledge bank. Sita said that they have seen a study where it could lead to malnutrition, but I have not seen a link yet. I wouldn't doubt that it would lead to malnutrition, but without testing it I don't know whether or not it does and no one can have any knowledge without experiment. I am not a herpatology expert and nor do I claim to be, but I certainly don't appreciate nasty comments when I come here to expand my knowledge. My skepticism here has created a beautiful discussion and again, I thank all that have contributed to it as I have learned a lot from it.

An interesting side note (I know, I know, I'm keeping the zombie alive, bear with me), I know here in Philadelphia we have a wild mouse epidemic. I was speaking with a friend of mine, and she told me there was an article in the newspaper recently that city municipals have been finding green mouse poo that has tested positive to poison. So mice and rats around here are actually developing resistances to poison and staying alive anyway, although no one can attest to how long. I would never want to risk poisoning my animals with a feeder that is living with poison in its system. The same poison could just as easily kill the snake, and they're worth more than experimentation.

GamerAgeDad,

If you came here to expand your knowledge that's great. However in your first post you called the responses "cliche" and doubted the validity of the information without being able to back your information. The fact is poisoned rodents can kill snakes. In some places it is how they kill problem snakes (there is a thread here about it, search for it).

Sure getting wild field mice in the country on land you know has not been treated with chemicals and pesticides and then quarantining paired with treating the mice could provide feeders. You did not state those facts and only said "wild." Even a city mouse is considered wild so I reader here for knowledge could take half thoughts as whole truths and try your experiment with bad results. I know that is not your intention but being a public forum where people with less knowledge come to pick the brains of those with more you need to be as detailed as possible when dealing with situations that could potentially harm a pet.

Feeding any"wild" rodent is not going to be embraced by this community. As a pet owner you have the responsibility of providing the best life possible for your pet. Just because something can be done does not mean it should.

Well just to chime in on Gamer ... I agree that wild animals eat things in the wild. But, if your snake was bread in captivity, and the mouse was not, I would be worried about the mouse being more "worldly" then the snake. This could lead to a situation where the mouse becomes the aggressor and bites or even kills the snake. Also, if mice are in the attic, and they have nested, then they probably have nested in the Fiberglass insulation, maybe even eaten some. If your snake ingests fiberglass insulation, it will tear it's guts up. So anyway you look at it, I would not feed THOSE mice to your snake. That's just my opinion ... I could be wrong. :weirdface

i know one problem with cooked rhodents:


Vitamin D, and potentially other vitamins that reptiles need.

a reptile has two ways to get them: from the internal organs of food items like rhodents, or by producing it in the skin using UV light. The reason why many reptiles absolutely need UV light to stay healthy and snakes dont is because snakes eat rhodents and rhodents have the right vitamins stored in their internal organs, like in the liver.

and cooking destroys that. so you can run into health issues due to vitamin deficiency if you dont feed whole rhodents that are live or frozen thawed.

What archimedes said about mice pooping green-colored poison because they have become so resistant to the poison also is a huge problem i was unaware of. That means even healthy-looking mice can be full of poison. So my idea of keeping and feeding the mice for a few days might not work at all, if they survive so much poison that they literally poop green from the green dye in the poison, who is to say that they really are poison-free after you keep them for a week?


it keeps getting more and more complicated. Before that there was the plan of first keeping and feeding them for a few days and then freezing them to really low temperatures for a few months to kill the parasites, and now thats still not safe because of the poison resistance issue. Whats the solution now, tox screening the mice?


it seems this is going nowhere. when trying to work around the risks it keeps getting more and more complicated, to the point that maybe the solution is to keep the mice, treat them for parasites, breed them, raise the offspring, and feed that to your snake. lol.

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Originally Posted by GamerAgeDad

I would like to chime in on this thread because every person I see speaking on this topic says the same thing: "Wild mice could have parasites and diseases that could hurt your snake!!!!" etc.

First of all, reptiles cannot get certain diseases that mammals can. I am certainty not an expert on this subject, but until I see someone posting some laboratory research on this topic of which parasites and diseases you are talking about and showing that said parasites and diseases are harmful to reptiles I am going to be skeptical about it. Snakes in the wild eat wild mice exclusively and people have witnessed plenty of adult snakes so there is at least some proof snakes can eat wild mice. They have highly acidic digestive systems that I can only imagine will disinfect much of what they eat even if it was diseased. It is hard for me to imagine that feeding a captive snake a few wild mice every now and then will effect it's health too much. Furthermore, just like any animal they have immune systems. Snakes have a tolerance for parasites and bacteria that they ingest every day. Nothing is 100% sanitary. Snakes must be at least somewhat resistant to diseases they encounter in the wild. They do have quite a long life span.

In the southeast we eat all kinds of wild animals that we cook thoroughly and no one ever gets sick from it. Perhaps if you really wanted to be sure you could boil cook the mice and then let them cool to serve to your snake as it would kill any parasites or bacteria living in them. You would probably have to make sure to use a thermometer to check the boiled mouses internals after though to make sure you weren't going to burn your snake. I think that underneath all these cliche responses is a reoccurring theme that eating anything from the wild is toxic and risky. I think people are too spoiled these days in thinking that everything is clean and sanitary coming from factories where things are made artificially while not realizing the FDA and other regulations allow for things like bug parts per million to be allowed into our food.

Would I feed wild mice to my snake? Perhaps I will experiment feeding wild mice to my regular regius and see how it goes. That is what actually lead me to this forum. I think I would try it since all I ever see is the same pretentious response that everyone gives without any supporting information.

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reply :I agree with everything you have said. all I hear about is parasites and diseases. If you were to boil the mouse anything bad inside that mouse would be killed. I will be testing this. I have a corn snake regular morph and I have mice in my house do to the fact that I live in the woods. I have put out mouse traps and every day I will check them. If I get mice I will immediately freeze them and then when they freeze I will boil them. its like water when you drink stale water you can get sick but if you boil it anything inside the water gets killed. I will update on this forum as soon as my experiment is complete.

First of all, this thread is very dead... Like, it's been dead for years. If you have anything to post, start a new thread to get more replies and keep things from getting confusing.

Second: DO NOT do this. Did you read the rest of this thread, or just that one post? In addition to the nutritional problems that can be caused by cooking snakes' prey, there is ALWAYS a risk when you feed food from an unknown source. Why take an unnecessary risk?
How experienced are you with keeping snakes? I ask because the tone of this post and the logic behind the experiment make it seem like you are probably pretty young.

Spend a little more time doing research before jumping into doing an experiment like this. There is a reason so many people caution against it: You are not going to find out ANY new information. Best case scenario, you will get lucky and your snake won't get sick. Worst case scenario, your snake gets a parasite, or poisoned by something in the mouse's system and it dies... And you've spent a lot of time and energy and money on mouse traps trying to make wild mice slightly safer but not completely safe for your snake to eat.
It's easier, safer, and cheaper to just get them frozen.