which ball pythons should i get?

im trying to figure out what ball pythons i want to start with. i dont want to spent more then about 3300. i want to start with 7 females and 7 males. i want to be able to breed to get a honey bee.

Get what you like. Pick a few morphs you really like or that are going to help you achieve a goal (honey bee) and pick the best examples you can find. No one can really tell you which morphs to get. I'm just starting out as well (4th breeding season) and I bought myself a few normal females, a pinstripe female, a spider male, pastel male, and I've picked up some hets too. Focus on getting females as males can breed multiple females. You could also look into getting double gene males like bumblebees that will give you pastels and spiders from must one male instead of getting a male pastel and a male spider.

im looking for the best morphs that will give me the most varity in the babies. i know i need a spider and a hypo/ghost. i would love to get some double gene snakes but with getting 14 snakes that about 240 max for each snake and most double gene snake are more then 240. i will come up with a list then post it.

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Originally Posted by armison89

im looking for the best morphs that will give me the most varity in the babies. i know i need a spider and a hypo/ghost. i would love to get some double gene snakes but with getting 14 snakes that about 240 max for each snake and most double gene snake are more then 240. i will come up with a list then post it.

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quality > quantity :twocents:
If you would rather get double genes then just don't get so many snakes, why are you set on getting 14? I mean i'm on my way to honey bees with just 4 snakes.

Only you can decide what you want.
7 to 7 is kinda wasiting your male's breeding potentional, but that also falls on the females if they are ready to breed or if you will be bringing them up which takes longer with females than males. Get more females than males, and if doing het.s, get a female het. now, bring it up, then get the male when the female is ready. That's how I usually plan my future breedings with hets: what's the female gonna take so the male isn't just hanging around. (depending what you are going for and how the male may play into other things, there is obviously many exceptions to this as well)
Otherwise, you sound like you know your focus, just get the snakes that will get you there. If trying to get more snakes for your money, never doubt the use of a normal female when starting out (or even down the road). You can get a few close to breeding size for the price of a single morph and this can help get your breeding started if nothing else. Take the normals to a male of a strong morph and that can give a nice first breeding season until you get better genetics to work with in your collection. They are also useful for breeding out hets from a recessive male.
Now that I have more snakes, I don't fall back on normals as much except a dinker or two I'm playing with, but again, is a good starting place to bulk up a collection with females.

Breed for what you like and what you want to create instead of what is going to make the most profit through variation.

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Originally Posted by Ezekiel285

quality > quantity :twocents:
If you would rather get double genes then just don't get so many snakes, why are you set on getting 14? I mean i'm on my way to honey bees with just 4 snakes.

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quality is a good point. Spend the extra money for quality

can someone give me an idea on how much each of these cost? some of them are hard to find a price for.

Butters
Cinnamon
Enchi
Fire
Lesser Platinums
Mojave
Pastel
Phantom
Vanilla
Woma
Yellowbelly
Calico
Champagne
Pinstripe
Spider
Albino
Axanthic
Clown
Genetic Stripes
Ghost
Piebalds

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Originally Posted by armison89

can someone give me an idea on how much each of these cost? some of them are hard to find a price for.

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It's going to vary by who the breeder is and the quality of the animal. Like i said I would look for quality animals over just having 14 snakes. Also like somebody else mentioned having 7 males is kind of a waste (unless you have tons of females) you want to have more females than males so you can produce more. One good sized male can easily breed with 3-4 females in a season.

Here is a site where you can view what things are going for.

the rack im buying has 14 tubs. i will be buying a rack for the famels when they get bigger that holds 7 tubs.

@Ezekiel285 i love the unsexed retic at the bottom of your wishlist

you can look on kingsnake classifieds to get a general idea of price ranges , you can also find just about any of the morphs you have listed in the classifieds. Also keep in mind all of the ones you listed are all single gene base morphs, you would prob be better off to throw alot of double gene animals into that mix

which snakes on that list are normally under $250?

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Originally Posted by armison89

the rack im buying has 14 tubs. i will be buying a rack for the famels when they get bigger that holds 7 tubs.

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I understand, but I still wouldn't buy 7 males and 7 females straight off. I would start with maybe 1 or 2 males and 3 or 4 females and then go from there.

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Originally Posted by armison89

which snakes on that list are normally under $250?

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I suggest you look on that site that i sent you. I really don't understand why you would just buy lots of cheap snakes to immediately fill up your rack, but it's your money. After having the few snakes that I do i've realized that paying the extra for a quality animal IS worth it. If you aren't making good looking morphs then it is gonna be hard to sell them.

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Originally Posted by SkYyame

@Ezekiel285 i love the unsexed retic at the bottom of your wishlist

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I'm not picky, I like surprises :P

You don't have to fill you're rack immediately. Like what other people said quality> quantity.

All right so after reading this I've got some ideas. 1. You don't need 7 males like many people have said. It takes a female a decent amour to get to breeding size. So feeling your racks full do no good. 2. It appears you dot really wanna do your research and just want the information given to you. Half those snakes you posted are easy to find prices for on kingsnake,fauna and other sites. On top of that half of those that your looking for you won't find for around 250 for a female not web a hatchling. I too am new in breeding balls I'm hoping my female pastel gets up to size this year so I can get my first clutch but what I did was bought a 700 gram female pastel that yes cost almost 500 bucks which is still cheap and a male Mojave that was 600 grams just so I can get a clutch possibly this year. My advice would be do more research

i dont want cheap snake i want qulity low range morphs.

hows this list?

4 normal males
Bumble Bee female
Mojave female
fire female
enchi female
Lesser Platinums female
het piebald male
het piebald female
pinstripe female
albino female
vanilla female

Why would you get normal males? I highly suggest you do major research about genetics, breeding, and even selling your hatchlings before trying to fill a rack. I know no one is born knowing, but I think you are trying to move too fast too soon.

i would get normal males because i will still get morphs (50/50) with almost all of the snakes on the list.

1 male can breed multiple females. a pastel male and the het pied male would be able to breed your entire list of females and save you a lot of money on feeding costs. i used the male pastel as a generic example but male dominant or co-dominant morphs are fairly inexpensive. other than that the list isnt bad, given the albino female on the list I recommend a het albino male rather than 4 normals.

Honestly u need to learn a little more before u go and spend $3300.00......i wish i would of took my time and did some research before just going and buying....take your time and do some research..but for now go and buy your favorite morph and then take it from there...build around that....

i was thinking of a het albino instead of a normal. i will get pastels from the bumble bee. i wont be buying any snake untill the summer. still need to get the rack and everything.

I think your missing the points that have been brought up. But good luck on your project wish you well

i got the point that i need to research more. but what should i research? ive had normal ball pythons in the past that i never bred. i know i should only get a few and fill my rack slow. thats my plan im just trying to get a final list of what i want so i dont see somthing for a good price and buy it then find out 6 months later that i dont have any need for it.

Breed for the love of it.. Not for the profits that could be made... Thats my two cents.

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Originally Posted by armison89

i dont want cheap snake i want qulity low range morphs.

hows this list?

4 normal males
Bumble Bee female
Mojave female
fire female
enchi female
Lesser Platinums female
het piebald male
het piebald female
pinstripe female
albino female
vanilla female

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You don't need the normal males. If anything, it would be normal females and morph males. It's better budget wise since male morphs are cheaper than females. And female normals breed just as well as morph females. Plus you can get multiple morph males breeding to a single normal female and get multiple morphs in a single clutch. Normal males are close to pointless in breeding morphs. You're wasting money buying normal males. They have nothing to contribute. Why breed normal males to a morph female? You can be breeding her to another morph male. In BP breeding, females are slithering gold! Even breeding sized normal females are worth a lot!

So for example:

Some from your list:
4 normal males: ~$15 x 4 = $60
Lesser female: ~$350-400
Albino female: $400
Total:$810-860

Change the gender:
4 normal females: ~$20 x 4 = $80
Lesser male: ~ $250-300
Albino male: $300-350
Total: $630-730

These prices are based on my own personal dealings with hatchlings... (may be cheaper or more expensive depending on various factors such as local vs online dealings, Hatchling vs adult prices, etc etc.)
But look at the price difference. Just by looking at 3 different kinds of BPs, you can save a few hundred dollars. And w/ my example, you can breed 4 different females with 2 morph males and come up w/ half a clutch of morphs/hets. That alone is worth a lot compared to breeding normal males to morph females.

You can still get morph females too, but I just wanted to point out that normal males are useless for breeding.

And maybe instead of buying so many base morphs to fill your rack, perhaps buy a few double gene animals. That way you get multiple morphs in one snake and have extra room in your rack. Just like what you're doing w/ that bumble bee. Instead of having to make room for a pastel and spider, you can just house the bee in one tub. Perhaps look into morph hets instead of just normal hets/visual hets? For example, getting a mojave het pied/albino or something. Double gene animals cost more, but in the long run are more cost efficient. Rather than housing, feeding, cleaning 2 different animals, you can save half the time/space/money on just one animal.

Like others have suggested, do a little more research before you acquire any more snakes. It looks like you're taking a harder more expensive route. Sit down and write down your breeding plan. Don't rush into anything. Many of the people here are giving great advice. Their words are based on their own personal experiences and mistakes.

Satomi well said....

First off I have never understood why people ask this question. Get the snakes that you like the look of or that will be a means to an end for a project that you like. Also 7 males is not a good idea. I have a ton of males and half just sit around with no female to breed them to and they are another tub to clean and mouth to feed. Why dont you try getting a few females and 2 double gene males to start? It will be easier on you trust me. and your list makes no sense.

this is why im asking so i dont spend money in the wrong place. i dont have any snakes right now.

if i get 14 snakes how many males should i have? 3?

these are the snake i want to have:
Pinstripe
Spider
albino
Ghost
Piebald
Vanilla
Pastel
Mojave
Lesser Platinums
Fire
Enchi
Cinnamon

what will be the best way to get these morphs?
i want your opinions good or bad.

I would get 4 males and the rest females. Remember that some of thoes on your list are recessive and therefor wont produce a visible morph unless bred with at a minimum a het. (IE pied and albino) Now since you dont have any snakes if I was you I would get a snake or 2 and see if its something you want to do in a few years, Too many people jump in head first and relize its not what they want to do. That or they think they will become the next BHB and end up selling off everything at a major loss

Quote:

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Originally Posted by armison89

this is why im asking so i dont spend money in the wrong place. i dont have any snakes right now.

if i get 14 snakes how many males should i have? 3?

these are the snake i want to have:
Pinstripe
Spider
albino
Ghost
Piebald
Vanilla
Pastel
Mojave
Lesser Platinums
Fire
Enchi
Cinnamon

what will be the best way to get these morphs?
i want your opinions good or bad.

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If it were up to me I would just start out with a Pastave, lesser Fire (or a vanilla Cream), honey bee, albino pied, spinner blast, pewter, and something with enchi. There you go most of the genes you want with half the snakes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by armison89

this is why im asking so i dont spend money in the wrong place. i dont have any snakes right now.

if i get 14 snakes how many males should i have? 3?

these are the snake i want to have:
Pinstripe
Spider
albino
Ghost
Piebald
Vanilla
Pastel
Mojave
Lesser Platinums
Fire
Enchi
Cinnamon

what will be the best way to get these morphs?
i want your opinions good or bad.

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Look at major combo animals to see what you like. It's all a matter of preference.

I'm a big lesser + lesser combo fan. One of my projects is to produce Emperor Pins and Killer Kingpins. The Emperor pin and Killer Kingpin can produce pastels, lessers, pinstripes and all of their 2 and 3 gene combos.

Look at big breeder sites and scope out their animals. (specifically the multi-gene ones). Look at NERD's site or facebook page. They have crazy looking combos that can produce some of the base morphs on your list.

Like Raverthug said, some of the morphs on your list won't show visual unless both parents have that recessive gene (het). Albinos, Ghosts, and Pieds are recessive. If you bread any of those visual morphs to any other snake, you're going to get all hets.

For example:
Normal + Albino is going to get you all normal looking offspring that are 100% het Albino.

Now using a morph:
Spider + Albino = Spider 100% het Albino & Normal 100% het Albino.

So each parent needs to be either 100% het Albino or/and visually Albino.

Albino + Albino = Albino
Albino + 100% het = Albino & normal 100% het Albino
100% het + 100% het = Albino & normal 66% het Albino

Het morph example:
Spider 100% het albino + Albino = Spiders 100% het Albino, Albino, Albino Spider, normal 100% het.

Hope that didn't confuse you too much...

But anyway, just look for animals that you think look good.

ok if i breed a queen bee male to a normale female will i get any normals or all visual morphs?

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Originally Posted by armison89

ok if i breed a queen bee male to a normale female will i get any normals or all visual morphs?

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Here's a genetics wizard
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/wizard/

a normal isnt a selection so that wont work

Dont choose anything and itll come up normal
Genetic Wizard 3.0 calculations by
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/gfx/logo.png

ok now im thinking of getting a few 2 gene males, some het females and normal females.

1.0 firefly
1.0 lesser pastel
1.0 spinner
0.1 orange ghost
0.1 enchi
0.1 mojave
0.6 normal