Why would anyone buy a rack?

I was bored and looking at racks and I noticed 1 thing about them. They all cost like 100 times what they cost to make. I just dont get it. Its like when did every company become Nike. I was looking at tons of places and I am outraged by what they think they can sell metal squares and plastic tubs for. Does anyone else find this to be a little suspect? Or is it just me? Well the one thing I know for sure is that Im building mine for a 1/4 of the price. I mean $1500.00+ just for a rack? No way, I mean who is really buying these things? And Sorry for the rant I just think people go too far nowadays to make a quick buck.

I noticed this too, and the only ONLY reason I would consider one is because I'm not good at building things lol.. I'm sure people have their reasons for buying them, they're easy I guess

I'm guessing the main two reasons would simply be either being horrible at building things (valid excuse, some people simply aren't good at it), or laziness. And hey, if you have that kind of money to throw around, it's not my business how you spend it.

The big breeders probably don't think twice about those high rack prices. If you put 20 snakes in a rack and each snake is worth over a thousand dollars, the $1500.00-$2000.00 per rack price doesn't seem so bad.
For the people who have smaller collections and/or lower valued animals, spending that kind of money on a rack just doesn't make much sense at all.
I think it depends on the number of animals you own, what they are worth, and if you really have the extra time to build your own racks.

Yeah I agree with all of you and maybe its more extreme to me because I can build my own. I just think that regardless of what goes in the rack, it could be 1,000,000 dollars for all I care, metal squares and plastic bins are just that, metal squares and plastic bins. I guess if I had the money to blow on it then fine. But how many people these days have money to just throw away. I know the more money I make the more things I have. I just think it is a waste and a shame for people who cant build their own to have to settle for being robbed.

Thats why I make My own Racks......They work Great ...as for spending the money on a fancy rack....why not just get more Bps?

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Originally Posted by Justin112358

Thats why I make My own Racks......They work Great ...as for spending the money on a fancy rack....why not just get more Bps?

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Thats what Im saying.

Of course they cost more than materials alone, because you're also paying for the craftsmanship/labor... it's like taking your car to a mechanic, instead of fixing your car yourself. I can't fix cars, nor can I build a working snake rack! What can I say - I'm a Jewish city girl, and my tools consist of a hammer and a couple of wrenches. :cool:

I bought two of my (Boaphile and Animal Plastics) racks second-hand for like $125 each, and another directly from Reptiles & Racks for $300 + shipping. One of my friends made the other rack, basically by re-creating the R&R dimensions, and only charged me for the cost of materials... but he's not available to make stuff whenever I ask, so usually I'm at the mercy of the pros. Not all racks cost $1000+, and as I luckily found out, you can also buy them used off a local snake collector. Make sense now?

Obviously Im not stupid and I know you can buy them used. I was referring to brand new racks. And yeah go look at any real rack with more then 4 bins in it. If you were wanting to breed, to have enough bins for a actual breeding process, it cost so much and craftsmanship and labor. So you think they what have their own metal shopes and do it all by hand? Um no. They are all manufactured. Just like cars? Im not asking any one to fix a rack so that makes no sense and if its like buying a new car, well new cars are MANUFACTURED. So please next time you want to talk to someone like an idiot. Find one first. Oh and I was talking about full racks not 4 bin racks which is what your talking about if its brand new.

I buy racks because I am lousy at building stuff. I can't put up a curtain rod without one end being decidedly downhill.

Modifying plastic storage boxes into rat cages is as DIY as I can muster.

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Originally Posted by VEXER19

Obviously Im not stupid and I know you can buy them used. I was referring to brand new racks. And yeah go look at any real rack with more then 4 bins in it. If you were wanting to breed, to have enough bins for a actual breeding process, it cost so much and craftsmanship and labor. So you think they what have their own metal shopes and do it all by hand? Um no. They are all manufactured. Just like cars? Im not asking any one to fix a rack so that makes no sense and if its like buying a new car, well new cars are MANUFACTURED. So please next time you want to talk to someone like an idiot. Find one first. Oh and I was talking about full racks not 4 bin racks which is what your talking about if its brand new.

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Why are you being so defensive? I don't believe anyone in here was talking to you like you are an idiot. They simply answered the question you posted. Yes I see your point, you are right it would be a lot cheaper to make one as opposed to buy one but not everyone has the time nor skills to make one.

I have the skills to make one but time isn't something I have to put into a rack for my snakes so I bought a couple or racks. It just depends on what you value more, I for example would rather get off work spend time with my family or hit the gym than put time into making a rack, so in turn I'll spend more for a built rack.

If you have the time and skills to make one by all means go ahead that's great. As for the car/mechanic thing I'm sure she meant it as a skills thing. She doesn't how to fix a car so she could a) read about fixing and attempt herself or b) save the time and get it done right so take it to a professional. That's all they meant from what I took from it, not comparing cars and racks.

Because they can.

Not all racks cost $1500 either I have 10 slots racks that were bought new for the third of the price.

People buy racks they like that fit their needs, I like lightweight racks which is why I chose expended PVC racks.

There are racks for everyone and for every budget, not sure what the anger is about or why you are so defensive about people answering your question.

You don't like some racks and their prices you don't have to buy them it's that simple.

Also considering that people drop a few thousands on a single snake $1500 to house several of them is not that bad, well unless you don't understand why people drop several thousands on a snake either. ;)

I cant build things for my life, Im slowly practicing though on smaller melamine racks, but for the time being I am getting a small RBI rack made for me. In my opinion, like Deborah said, there are $300 racks and there are $2500 racks. The only ones REALLY worth the money IMO are the freedom or ARS breeder racks that you see most big breeders using, but even then, Im sure there are tons of breeders out there who have the similar volume as Jkobylka or BHB and use home-made racks.

I personally really like the look of the stainless steel/custom vent system for the freedom/ars breeders. The tubs are super nice too with the water dish holder & the fact that they are not see-through is great. Having these things available in the market is not such a bad thing when you think about it. It pushes the snake industry a little further everytime people make more "professional" looking racks. It pushes big breeders in that direction and make normal breeders like people on here want to improve their setups (thus advancing the herp industry). Im sure if you were to ask normal breeders 10 years ago what racks they were using, I highly doubt anyone was using Animal Plastics or RBI racks (I may be wrong). Thats my morning :2cent:

this all depends on what racks you are talking about. i priced out what it cost to build a six high rack out of PVC with tubs for someone and my cost was almost that of buying it built.

i also priced out what it would cost to build a friend a rack for his boas. he wanted to use those giant vision tubs. for 100 bucks more, he could buy the metal one so that is the route he is going. this rack would go floor to ceiling.

To echo what others have stated, depending on the type of racks you prefer, once you start needing them in serious numbers, it can be much more cost-effective in terms of materials, time, and labor to buy racks made by a professional caging company. Same goes if you need a specialty size rack or tub.

My husband & I can & have built nice, functional racks in the past, but we prefer to buy them from Animal Plastics instead. The good folks at AP have better experience, better equipment, better resources for materials and get them done more efficiently than we could. The racks are all precision built, uniform & look great. Not to mention, we'd rather spend that time down in our snake rooms caring for and enjoying our pythons, instead of out in the garage building racks. Besides, we feel our snakes deserve the best enclosures we are able to provide, and to us that means buying them from a professional enclosure builder.

It's all a matter of where and how you want to spend your time and money and efforts. Just because people do it differently than you certainly doesn't mean they're getting robbed or haven't put any thought into it. :D

It's like this you're paying for the convenience of having to do nothing more than to put it together and plug it in.. Now while most people think it's cheaper that depends..if you really do the math how much are you really saving..I build all of my racks because I have the time space and tools to do so..but there will come a time when I have to spend more time tending snakes and rats so build them won't be piratical. but if you look at the cost of keeping them look at it like this, an ARS to house 75 snakes in a 1075 rack with heat it works out to 40.00 per snake. That's cheaper than tanks and way cheaper than the cost to build my own..

For 10 28qt tubs of melamine you're talking 200.00 for the wood, 125.00 for a thermostat, another 50.00 for flexwatt, 20.00 for wheels and screws, then 10 tubs at 6 bucks each. Then lets say it takes you 2 days to build it right, your time is worth something so at 8.00 an hour that's another 130.00 min. That's a total of 585.00 now that's for 10 snakes.

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Originally Posted by VEXER19

Yeah I agree with all of you and maybe its more extreme to me because I can build my own. I just think that regardless of what goes in the rack, it could be 1,000,000 dollars for all I care, metal squares and plastic bins are just that, metal squares and plastic bins. I guess if I had the money to blow on it then fine. But how many people these days have money to just throw away. I know the more money I make the more things I have. I just think it is a waste and a shame for people who cant build their own to have to settle for being robbed.

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Couple of points here. Number one you get what you pay for is kinda true. There are exceptions but these $1500 dollar racks have advantages over cheaper racks. Now if you can build your own that's certainly a good way to go. The problem is that it takes tools, some know how and most importantly, TIME. I do ok at my job and I work about 50 hours a week. I value my free time at $50 an hour or more. If you think that $50 dollars an hour is ridiculously high just know that there are people who think $50 an hour is too low. So with all that said the math is really simple. You say it will cost you 1/4, that's $375. So if takes you more than 22.5 hours I would say you are losing money by making it yourself. Of course another way to look at it is what will your finish product be worth vs the professionally made rack. If yours is only worth $1000 then you best be able to make it in 12.5 hours. For me it still sounding good to build my own. But if you value your time at $100 an hour, or it will take you a long time, or you are not convinced you can produce the quality, it starts to make sense why a person would buy a rack.

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Originally Posted by Kara

To echo what others have stated, depending on the type of racks you prefer, once you start needing them in serious numbers, it can be much more cost-effective in terms of materials, time, and labor to buy racks made by a professional caging company. Same goes if you need a specialty size rack or tub.

My husband & I can & have built nice, functional racks in the past, but we prefer to buy them from Animal Plastics instead. The good folks at AP have better experience, better equipment, better resources for materials and get them done more efficiently than we could. The racks are all precision built, uniform & look great. Not to mention, we'd rather spend that time down in our snake rooms caring for and enjoying our pythons, instead of out in the garage building racks. Besides, we feel our snakes deserve the best enclosures we are able to provide, and to us that means buying them from a professional enclosure builder.

It's all a matter of where and how you want to spend your time and money and efforts. Just because people do it differently than you certainly doesn't mean they're getting robbed or haven't put any thought into it. :D

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Yep.

Made my own PVC rack a few months ago. 1/2" PVC purchased at TAP plastics. No charge for the cuts.

Bought my heat tape through RBI and the tubs at Target.

In the end I saved a whopping $40 on something that would have cost me about $450 through AP or the like.

After spending all the time gathering the materials, and all the time putting things together, I concluded that it would have been worth MY time coughing up an extra $40 and having someone else ship one to me.

As for the Freedom Breeder and ARS style rack - my old man is a welder. After pricing out the materials, there was little to no savings in having him weld one up for me.

One thing to keep in mind is that these dedicated cage and rack builders get volume material discounts that most of us don't get. An example of this is when I priced out building my own 3'x4'x2' PVC cage - the cost of having AP or ProLine build me a custom cage was essentially the same.

I guess if I were to compare those costs to DIY melamine costs it would appear as if I the cage builders were making a fortune. However that's and apples to orange comparison.

Melamine and masonite for 2 six-slot racks: $200
Heat tape, thermostats, metal foil tape, wiring: $175
My time (at my regular wage) 12 hours x $20: $240
Total: $615 (!!!)
and all I got was 2 six-slot racks that weigh a ton; I have the experience and know-how, but I still would have been better off buying some!
Here are the pics:
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/3936/rackx.jpg
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/836/rackback.jpg
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/8623/img0262np.jpg

Time is money and a lot of people make more for their time than the cost of that rack. I build my own racks but I have more free time than I have money. You are shopping with your own wallet and perspective. I've been in sales my entire life and that's a big mistake. If the perceived value is there then they will sell. That's just the way any free-market based system works. Competition drives pricing down. There really isn't a lot of competition in that market segment. A handful of manufactures compete in that price range. There are people with $50-100+k snakes. Think $1500 is a lot of money to them?

Regards,

B

@the OP:

Materials.. what are you using?

If I were going to go with the materials that are used in the racks I've purchased, after looking @ total costs and time involved to make my own, I wouldn't even be working for minimum wage.

However if I was going to use cheaper materials, I'd certainly save some dough.

alright i went the bought vs build route for my 1st one. why? I cant build stuff. My wife and her father could easily but it wouldnt be as nice as the one I bought.

I got a 5 tub 15/34 qt from the tinley show made out of melamine 3/4" i believe. It is laser cut and if you buy a 2nd one is notched so you can stack them.

I spent 150 on the rack and I wanna say 30 on the heat tape. The whole rack is tongue and grooved and pre drilled for the screws. Each shelf is grooved so all you gotta do is drop the heat tape down through the back of each shelf.

I went also with the fact that I rarely have the time to sit and build stuff nor the tools. I could get them cut at our lowes or get my father in law to but its easier for me just to pick it up and bring it home and assemble.

Also didnt help that I had bought my pied and the het pied female at that show and had no where to put them. And 2 more tanks would have been more than the rack itself and I know I am not done buying morphs. :D

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

@the OP:

Materials.. what are you using?

If I were going to go with the materials that are used in the racks I've purchased, after looking @ total costs and time involved to make my own, I wouldn't even be working for minimum wage.

However if I was going to use cheaper materials, I'd certainly save some dough.

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Minimum wage un my state is $7.75 soo u must be taking wayyy to long.. in cali its like 10.50..
Minimum or even average wage isn't $20 more like 8

Thanks for all of your points. For those of you who think I was being rude for my one comment we you are intitled to your own opinion. Because obviously I know you can buy anything for cheap and for any budget. I thought it was obvious that I was talking about freedom breeders and other nice racks that are manufactured and not had built. All I was saying is that I work full time and I enjoy building things. I get a sense of joy out of creating things. Probably the same feeling that most of you get when you get that new clutch. I understand that obviously that some people can afford these racks and I could if I wanted to I just dont want to. And dont think you can calculate your own personal labor into the cost of your rack unless you were planning on selling it. Now if it is only like $40 bucks more to just buy it, well obviously just buy. And If every hour of your free time is worth $50 then I dont even want to know why your free time is that limited. But I guess everyone has their own opinions on how they look at this post. It just became much more than I was personally trying to talk about. So this thread is garbage to me now.

P.S. Thanks for the few of you who actually understood what I was talking about in this thread and sorry if it offended any of you who spent that much money on a rack. In some cases I understand but to me I could make any rack Ive seen for half the price.

It's funny...you say you "understand" but still come in with a condescending tone towards anyone who had a different opinion than yours. It's not a matter of someone's free time being "so limited" - obviously people just have different values & goals with how they want to spend their free time than you do.

If you want to go build racks, go build racks to your heart's content. Just don't knock those who choose to buy. It REALLY is that simple. :D Cage manufacturers are an integral part of this hobby and industry. Looking back on how much caging technology has changed, evolved and adapted to meet the needs of providing better, more efficient, species-friendly housing for all the different types of critters available in the reptile trade, it's pretty impressive. Keep in mind that a lot of cage builders have spent most of their lives investing in, researching, upgrading, changing, and improving their cage/rack designs. They've tried and failed, tried again and succeeded, met customer demands, suggestions, etc. There's a lot of thought & detail that goes into many of the caging systems out there, and the people behind them are an important aspect of the herp hobby. :)

Also, have you been to some of the cage builder's shops, like Freedom Breeder and Animal Plastics? Do you know how their products are built, how much of it is done by hand vs. "manufactured"? For some reason you seem to have this visual of a giant factory cranking out cage after cage...believe it or not, that's not how it works. I've visited both facilities - there is a lot of work & individual hands-on detail that goes into each unit, and each facility has a team of people whose jobs depend on the quality of work they do & cages they provide to their customers. Just some food for thought. :)

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Originally Posted by VEXER19

Thanks for all of your points. For those of you who think I was being rude for my one comment we you are intitled to your own opinion. Because obviously I know you can buy anything for cheap and for any budget. I thought it was obvious that I was talking about freedom breeders and other nice racks that are manufactured and not had built. All I was saying is that I work full time and I enjoy building things. I get a sense of joy out of creating things. Probably the same feeling that most of you get when you get that new clutch. I understand that obviously that some people can afford these racks and I could if I wanted to I just dont want to. And dont think you can calculate your own personal labor into the cost of your rack unless you were planning on selling it. Now if it is only like $40 bucks more to just buy it, well obviously just buy. And If every hour of your free time is worth $50 then I dont even want to know why your free time is that limited. But I guess everyone has their own opinions on how they look at this post. It just became much more than I was personally trying to talk about. So this thread is garbage to me now.

P.S. Thanks for the few of you who actually understood what I was talking about in this thread and sorry if it offended any of you who spent that much money on a rack. In some cases I understand but to me I could make any rack Ive seen for half the price.

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Originally Posted by Kara

It's funny...you say you "understand" but still come in with a condescending tone towards anyone who had a different opinion than yours. It's not a matter of someone's free time being "so limited" - obviously people just have different values & goals with how they want to spend their free time than you do.

If you want to go build racks, go build racks to your heart's content. Just don't knock those who choose to buy. It REALLY is that simple. :D

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I dont care if you were to buy or not. I would love to buy. The whole point is that people were missing the point. All I was saying is that racks are way overpriced for the materials used to make them. Thats it. Then people were telling me you can buy used. Well, EBAY,obviously you can by anything used. And then compare it to getting a car fixed and labor. There is no labor in a manufactured product. All I was trying to say is that the pricing is outrageous. Im all for buying used. And I would love to buy a new rack in the future just not at those prices. I was also talking about full size racks and people keep bringing up 4 bin racks and smaller racks and that is not what I was referring to. In the end all I was saying from a buyers point of view. That it seems a little pricey for a NEW and LARGER rack then say an HD tv. Now the ones that come in your house and install I can understand asking those prices for. But they should be cheaper and charge and installment fee if the buyer so chooses to have them install it. But you can all keep being critical of me wanting people to stay on topic with the post and not bring up a bunch of things that arent even apart of what I was saying. Either way I really dont care, so think what you want of me. My only concern is the care of animals and the ablitly for others to be able to purchase resonably priced items to take care of their animals properly. I could get into the prices of just little bushes and trees and extras and those rediculous prices as well. But it obvioulsy wouldnt be a convo to start on this forum. Hope I dont ruin anyone elses day with this post...lol.

Just an FYI, Freedom Breeder racks are built on site in their metal shop from the ground up. I own several and have spoken on the phone with the guys over there a bunch. Yes they are expensive but they are the best of the best in my opinion and you get what you pay for.

There are racks & cages out there for every price range & every budget. Just because they may not fit into yours does not make them "way overpriced." Keep in mind that enclosure builders have bills & employees to pay, but they also have to price their products at a level where people will buy them steadily enough to support day-to-day business.

I feel that many enclosures out there (and I've tried several different types over the past 15+ years) are pretty fairly priced for the quality you get and the functions they are built to perform (i.e. Freedom Breeders, Vision, AP) etc. The quality, the longevity of the product, the purpose-built design & materials used all go a LONG way towards providing the optimal environment for an animal, and that all adds into the overall value of such a rack or cage, especially when dealing with a larger collection.

Also keep in mind, not every cage or rack is perfect for every situation, and that affects one's "perceived value" of that product. The more "open airflow" design of a Freedom Breeder, ARS or Vision rack would not work as well in a space that was not specifically climate-controlled (i.e. for a couple of snakes in a one-bedroom apartment with temps set for human comfort), but is a better choice for someone who has a calibrated snake room with ideal temps & humidity. For that purpose, it would be a case of "too much rack" rather than too much money, and as such of a different value than it would for someone who could utilize the rack for its actual, intended use.

I currently have 200+ snakes, and could not imagine the time it would take to build enclosures for them all here at home. KNOWING that I can call my preferred cage manufacturer and get exactly what I want in a reasonable time frame and know that it will work for my situation is way more valuable than the possibility of saving money by building them at home. They have the tools, the resources & can get better pricing on materials than I ever could for the quantity that I'd need to do so myself.

I guess that was a long winded way of saying, "It's all a matter of perspective and experience." And no worries there kiddo...your post certainly didn't ruin my day. Hope it didn't ruin yours, either. It's been a fun debate. :)

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Originally Posted by VEXER19

I dont care if you were to buy or not. I would love to buy. The whole point is that people were missing the point. All I was saying is that racks are way overpriced for the materials used to make them. Thats it. Then people were telling me you can buy used. Well, EBAY,obviously you can by anything used. And then compare it to getting a car fixed and labor. There is no labor in a manufactured product. All I was trying to say is that the pricing is outrageous. Im all for buying used. And I would love to buy a new rack in the future just not at those prices. I was also talking about full size racks and people keep bringing up 4 bin racks and smaller racks and that is not what I was referring to. In the end all I was saying from a buyers point of view. That it seems a little pricey for a NEW and LARGER rack then say an HD tv. Now the ones that come in your house and install I can understand asking those prices for. But they should be cheaper and charge and installment fee if the buyer so chooses to have them install it. But you can all keep being critical of me wanting people to stay on topic with the post and not bring up a bunch of things that arent even apart of what I was saying. Either way I really dont care, so think what you want of me. My only concern is the care of animals and the ablitly for others to be able to purchase resonably priced items to take care of their animals properly. I could get into the prices of just little bushes and trees and extras and those rediculous prices as well. But it obvioulsy wouldnt be a convo to start on this forum. Hope I dont ruin anyone elses day with this post...lol.

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Simple calculations on the amount of 1/2" XPVC required to build a 4x2x2 cage.

4 - 4x2 pieces (top and bottom, front and back). Some depending on orientation, measurements will be an 1" or so off in various dimensions.

2 - 2x2 pieces (sides)

That works out to about 72 square feets of XPVC - keep in mind that even for the front sections with the doors you still have to buy either a full piece and route out the opening or cut a bunch of trim pieces out.

At Tap Plastics, the materials alone would be $286.00. This does not include doors of any kind, any hardware or any heating. Once you add in plexiglass for the doors ($30), hardware ($10) and heat tape, the cost rises to $337.80. That does not even factor in the cost you have to pay some poor shmuck to fab it all up.

Check for yourself:

http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/product.php?pid=342&

Animal Plastics will gladly sell you a cage of the same dimensions and made out of the same material for $339.00 + shipping.

http://www.animalplastics.com/

So in the end, your only savings on a cage of this sort is in the shipping costs. A whopping $50.00 or so. If you factor in labor, there is even less savings, if any.

The same pricing goes for racks. As I've said, I've built my own racks and I've purchased racks. The savings on an apples to apples comparison are trivial. If I were to compare the cost of building an XPVC rack to a metal rack, the results would be different - but no one would be dumb enough to debate the saving between building a wood rack versus one made from a more expensive material, would they?

In other words, been there done that. Built them big, and built them small. There is little to no savings to be had. People who opt to buy instead of wasting their time saving a few pennies aren't lazy - they are actually smart. In most cases, they are getting a better product for a comparable price.

I wish I had spent my money on buying a PVC rack instead of building the behemoth of a melamine rack that now forever lives where it is in my snake room. There's no way I'm moving that thing! lol I plan on scrapping it and buying some PVC racks from AP.

After saying that.. it does seem very over-priced at first look, but after reading what everyone has to say here it definitely seems like an appropriate price. :>

I know Animal Plastics uses the PVC which is quite expensive but does not cave like most woods will. And the Heat Tape is included in the price. For instance, a 7 level CB70 racks with heat tape is 455 with Animal Plastics. Not a bad deal in my opinion. Especially with the prices of the PVC that they use and the grooves are cut for the heat tape. It is actually a good deal.

I can't speak for the US but here in Canada a commercial business (any) must use an electrician to connect any and all electrical wiring over 12v. If you want to breed snakes for sale here you cannot wire a rack your self unless you are licensed electrician. building your own rack here is still going to cost big, I priced it out a while ago, with everything including the electrician it was just under 900$ It was not worth it, my time is worth a lot more than minimum wage! I bought my rack and didn't compromise my insurance or open myself up for criminal negligence charges.

the big rack companies also sell piece of mind with their racks.. awesome changeable ventilation, smooth tubs, already taped, stackable, wheels.. everthing... granted i cant afford one, but i figure it would be amazing to own one....

I'm glad that we were able to save a few thousand dollars by building our first set of racks ourselves, but I fully intend to replace them all with FB racks one of these days(years). Well built, perfectly fitted tubs, no sloshing water due to tubs hitting the heat tape, and permanent. You'd never have to replace those bad boys.

If you're about to place a bunch of expensive snakes in one unit maybe it's worth the extra $1000 to avoid the effort of building one and to be sure your rack isn't about to cook all the snakes. http://www.lilwaynehq.com/forums/ima...ilies/hmmm.gif

My racks are out of steel, so I couldn't possibly build one like this myself...
http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._3703002_n.jpg

I buy Animal Plastics racks, because:

1. I suck at doing handy work. I don't have the patience and end up yelling like an idiot and throwing things.

2. I can be absolutely sure that it's made correctly, no worries

3. They have the heat cables, not shotty looking, fire hazard heat tape.

4. They look really good. In case ya haven't noticed, most homemade racks are ghetto as all get-out.

Haha.

Ya get what ya pay for. :gj:

When I first saw the prices on racks, I was pretty suprised as they appeared expensive to me. SO I can understand how the OP felt. But the more I thought about it and broke it down to cost of housing per snake and what other options cost, it really isn't that bad. This is keeping in mind that I am very frugal and a bargain hunter.

When you pay for a rack the cost goes towards materials, labor/time, craftsmanship/skill, the tools used to build them and the space needed to do so.

If I wanted to build a rack, I would need to buy tools and materials (I don't know tools, so I couldd't even estimate that cost). I don't even know where I would build it as I am in an apartment. Then let us consider craftsmanship/skill. I've put IKEA furniture together wrong. Anyone who builds racks sucessfully has a craft skill I do not possess. Next is time. There are many things I would rather do than build. But saying I tried, I could not even say how long this would take me. I've looked at some of the DIY plans foor a cooler incubator and that seems like more than I want to deal with and from what I have heard they are easy to build. They there is getting materials and all of the driving and gas money that goes into that.

I think if I was a craftsman, had the tools & space and an inexpensive source for materials that building may make sense to me. Especially if I actually liked building things (which I don't). All this taken into consideration, I find that purchasing a rack is preferable. Buying allows me to not have to worry about all those things mentioned above and I can then focus on things I actually enjoy with my time.

Now that being said, the frugal part of me wishes I could make all of these things myself at half the cost.. lol.. :D

Why do I buy racks as opposed to building them myself?

Above all, convenience. Function and aesthetics fall shortly behind. I don't have the time or the space to build my own racks. Would I love to do so? Yes. Do I have the knowledge and skill set to design and build my own? Absolutely. Do I have the tools and access to the necessary equipment? You better believe it; I have free permission to use equipment that many have never even heard of (including myself). I have access to 2 very adept professional machinist, who wouldn't charge me a penny--not for advice and not for work.

Then why you may ask do I continue to spend $xxx to $XXX per rack? My time is more important to me than my money. I have way too many tasks occurring simultaneously to devote even a small portion of my "free" time to deal with rack design/construction.

Economics 101: time = money and nothing is free. Because that time spent designing/building a rack took away from either work (direct money) or "free" time (indirect money; time you choose to spend not working and therefore not making money).

I am not affiliated with them at all, but after keeping up with this thread and doing some research, the racks from C Serpents Reptiles are the cheapest per slot rack I've found. They come with heat tape that is in a slot so the tub does not rub on it, and they come with the tubs. Made out of 1/2 inch pvc. I think the cost for an 18 slot rack (3 wide, 6 tall shoebox tubs) with heat, tubs, and shipping was $265.
I think I've built my last rack.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mikeandsheleen

I am not affiliated with them at all, but after keeping up with this thread and doing some research, the racks from C Serpents Reptiles are the cheapest per slot rack I've found. They come with heat tape that is in a slot so the tub does not rub on it, and they come with the tubs. Made out of 1/2 inch pvc. I think the cost for an 18 slot rack (3 wide, 6 tall shoebox tubs) with heat, tubs, and shipping was $265.
I think I've built my last rack.

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That should have been "C Serpents Reptiles and Racks" (don't know what happened)

Ok.. I want to point out that several people have already poined out how mfuch materials and time to manufacture rack cost..... Now stop and price a CNC Router... When you realize what the equpment and tools cost to manufacture these racks it is doubtful that you would want to give them away. I currently use AP racks, and hope to move up to ars racks in the future. I look at the price tag of a rack as an investment. Saying racks are to expensive is like saying I gotta ice chest who needs a refridgerator

This thread is one of those, makes me laugh threads. It is like anything else. You get what you pay for. Sure you can build racks but can you build them as good as companies that do it for a living? Can you precision cut? Do you have the tools? Etc. Its like anything else. You can drive the focus or you can drive the lambo. Both will get you there. I have a number of racks. I have freedom breeders, visions, and malamine racks and i can tell you out of the 3 types i like my visions the best because of versatility. Once you break down the materials cost your not saving a ton of money. For example to build a malamine rack to hold 11 28 qt tubs heres what it costs. 3 sheets of melamine at about 40 bucks a sheet, box of screws at 12 bucks, caster wheels at about 20 bucks, tubs at about 70 bucks, heat about 50 bucks, now you have 260.00 in materials now ad a labor rate of about 100 bucks and you have close to a 400 dollar rack which is not far off from what it would cost to buy a rack of the same size from most companies. Now granted your not gonna think about labor since your absorbing that by making it yourself but you have to factor it when justifying the argument. Now if you want to compare freedom breeders versus melamine thats just stupid cause your talking 2 totally different things. Plus have you prices the labor rate of welders? Its not cheap. Also freedom breeder tubs are not cheap. Is it cheap for someone who has the equiptment to mold their own tubs? Sure the material is but not the equiptment it takes to make em. Again you get what you pay for. If your breeding low end snakes and have a small collection then i guess it doesnt justify buying a freedom breeder but you have to look at the big picture. How much is your collection worth?

And the reason im using freedom breeders as an example is because people are talking about 1500 dollar racks versus building your own. Had to clear that up before i get crucified for my reply lol

Why would I buy a rack?

It's simple math.

My time is worth more than what the rack builder is charging for theirs.

I absolutely love how some people give their honest answer ad I agree with most of you now more than I did origionally. But to those who just post to be words I can't say its quite pathetic to see you all line up one after another to be nothing but rude about this post. I see some pretty dumb crap on here all the time and not once has it gone through my mind do belittle the poster much less multiple people doing it like a lowly cult. Just from posting this 1 thread I have lost all respect for this site and the people who post on it, give or take a handful of people who have helped me out. I really appreciate all of you. As for the rest of you who posted just to feel tough or smart olr why ever it is that people do stupid things. I pity you. Its just a thread. You act like I defaced your gods statue or something. Its quite sad.

The vibe you gave off with this thread was basically "who would be stupid enough to buy one of these racks?" That's why people reply the way they do. If someone implied that a decision you made was stupid, you'd probably be a little upset with that person too. Now, not only have you insulted their decision to purchase a rack, you are calling them pathetic for defending their decision.

I just went through and skimmed this thread again. Really, the only rude remarks I saw were from you, so I don't think this board or the people on it are the problem here.

Do ARS and FB mark up their racks? Of course they do. They are in the business to make a profit. That means charging more for their product than it takes to make it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Are they over charging? Not likely. If they were, someone would step in and bring a cheaper alternative to market. If you think you could do this as good for cheaper, why not try to bring your own product to market? You'll be able to price it however you'd like.

Keep in mind, you'll need a warehouse to store your supplies, tools and inventory. You'll need a supplier for plastic tubs and an electrician to wire up your heat strips (for liability reasons, you probably wouldn't want to do this yourself). You'll need to hire someone to pack up your racks for shipment, someone to handle your sales and accounting, someone to run your website. Oh yeah, you'll need to provide insurance and benefits to all these people. Keep in mind you'll also need to pay your taxes on the income you get from these racks.

I hope you get my point. Businesses cost money to run. Products cost more than just the materials they are made from. Nobody works for free either.

If I cannot insure my home and place of business because I decided to save a couple of hundred bucks it is completely crazy. I must admit I have found your posts to be somewhat problematic, if you don't want opinions don't ask.

I purchase my racks because I don't trust myself building something that is going to house living creatures. I wouldn't want to risk something going wrong wether it be with heat tape or any of my building. To me you can't put a price on the safety and proper care of your animals.

It would be like you building a house for your family with no real knowledge of house building... You wouldn't do that would you?

At no point did I say that anyone who has b ought a rack is stupid. Actually I said that I ould probably buy. Rack myself regarless some day and I understand why some people would by one. So maybe you should re read. I was just saying that they were overprice for materials used compared to other items in this world that cost much more to build and technology to build is all I was saying. At no point was I ever considerin that someone was dumb for buying a rack. Hey if I had the business and people bought them I would sell them at the same price as well. But there is a way to have a difference of opinion and do it with class just how you (capefearconstrictors) just did. I'm not saying I was the nicest guy in this thread cause I wasn't. And I have no problem at all with your response. I just feel that you can give a difference of opinion without being sarcastic or rude. Now if I came off s insulting to everyone and that is why they reacted this way then I am truely sorry it was not my intent. I was simply looking at racks one day and was just blown away by the prices I saw and wanted to see if other people felt the same. That's it. And unfortunately I have 1000 people responding and saying the same thing over and over. So if you feel like I was the only sarcastic person in here I would be happy to go through and point out the other peopls remarks. But I'm sure that's not needed. I honestly just stayed away from bp.net hoping this thread would just dissapear because it became way more than I intended. Well again I'm sorry if anyone felt disrespected or insulted by this post it was not my intention.