Het question

I checked the Genetics Wizard for a Pastel X 100% Het Clown mating and got this:

Genetic Wizard 3.0 calculations by http://www.worldofballpythons.com/gfx/logo.png

Is that all I would get or are there some sort of variables the Wizard doesn't cover?

Would this be simply a 'breeding experience/education' mating or could something unusual pop up?

The GW gives me 50/50 with a Pastel/normal female versus the 100% Het Clown.

Why is that so?
Simply the co-doms versus recessive issue?

Thanks for any info.

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Originally Posted by Salamander

Is that all I would get or are there some sort of variables the Wizard doesn't cover?

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That is all you would get unless your pastel happens to be het. clown;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Salamander

Would this be simply a 'breeding experience/education' mating or could something unusual pop up?

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You could produce clowns in the long run. If your het clown is the female, you could hold back the males and breed them back to try and prove them out. The only problem is that the clutch would only be 50% chance of being het.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Salamander

Why is that so?
Simply the co-doms versus recessive issue?

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You have to have two of the recessives or two hets to get the visual:gj:

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

That is all you would get unless your pastel happens to be het. clown;)


You could produce clowns in the long run. If your het clown is the female, you could hold back the males and breed them back to try and prove them out. The only problem is that the clutch would only be 50% chance of being het.


You have to have two of the recessives or two hets to get the visual:gj:

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That's what I suspected.

I'd be better off to "practice" on a normal....:]

[still looking for a grown Pastel female, though]

I'm reading Berry's "Designer Morphs" book and my head is about to explode.

:O

I personally wouldn't even consider that pairing. The price of a visual male clown is far less than the price of raising up a bunch of possible hets that may not even prove out. It is also difficult to sell the possible hets that you decide not to keep. Get a visual clown and make all 100% hets, or get a pastel het clown male to breed to the het female and you have a shot at producing visual pastel clowns right away.

The advantage of option a(visual clown)is you most likely will get at least one male pastel het for the next season and some female pastel hets to hold back as future breeders.
Option b(pastel het clown male)gives you a shot at making the coveted pastel clown your first time out, but you will also end up with a bunch of possible hets.

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Originally Posted by TheReptileEnthusiast

I personally wouldn't even consider that pairing. The price of a visual male clown is far less than the price of raising up a bunch of possible hets that may not even prove out. It is also difficult to sell the possible hets that you decide not to keep. Get a visual clown and make all 100% hets, or get a pastel het clown male to breed to the het female and you have a shot at producing visual pastel clowns right away.

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I've got a Pastel breeder male and really want a Pastel female but came upon a bargain Het.
I didn't jump at the offer because in the back of my head, I knew the pairing was not going to get me much more than breeding experience.

I'll just keeping looking for the .1 Pastel or a breeder .1 Spider.

Something will turn up, eventually.

:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheReptileEnthusiast

The advantage of option a(visual clown)is you most likely will get at least one male pastel het for the next season and some female pastel hets to hold back as future breeders.
Option b(pastel het clown male)gives you a shot at making the coveted pastel clown your first time out, but you will also end up with a bunch of possible hets.

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That's why I love it here.
Everybody knows so much and is so willing to share their knowledge with [somewhat overwhelmed] novices.

You're all just the best.

Thanks!....:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Salamander

I've got a Pastel breeder male and really want a Pastel female but came upon a bargain Het.
I didn't jump at the offer because in the back of my head, I knew the pairing was not going to get me much more than breeding experience.

I'll just keeping looking for the .1 Pastel or a breeder .1 Spider.

Something will turn up, eventually.

:)

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Count yourself lucky, I'd much rather have a het clown female than a pastel or spider any day. You just need a male with the clown gene to pair with her. Even het females will be valuable to you for years to come, because they can be paired with the right male and produce high end babies indefinitely. Males on the other hand are usually replaced with one of thier higher end male offspring every year and go down in value sooner.

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Originally Posted by TheReptileEnthusiast

Count yourself lucky, I'd much rather have a het clown female than a pastel or spider any day. You just need a male with the clown gene to pair with her. Even het females will be valuable to you for years to come, because they can be paired with the right male and produce high end babies indefinitely. Males on the other hand are usually replaced with one of thier higher end male offspring every year and go down in value sooner.

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Thank you for the advice.
Exactly what would be the 'right male' to pair with her?

Sorry for being so obtuse but the "Het" stuff is what I have the most trouble understanding.

[and trying to figure out Punnett squares just make my eyes roll back in my head]....;)

I don't have an answer for what you 'should' pair her with, but here is a site that helped me grasp the whole het/codom/dom thing. You may already know about them, but I refer back to it regularly even-though I have a 'decent' understanding.

http://www.ballpython.ca/genetics.html

Between this site, the genetic wizard, and little bit of brain power, it has helped me figure out most of what I want to know.

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Originally Posted by RichL

I don't have an answer for what you 'should' pair her with, but here is a site that helped me grasp the whole het/codom/dom thing. You may already know about them, but I refer back to it regularly even-though I have a 'decent' understanding.

http://www.ballpython.ca/genetics.html

Between this site, the genetic wizard, and little bit of brain power, it has helped me figure out most of what I want to know.

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Thank you!

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Originally Posted by Salamander

Thank you!

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No problem =)

For example, you could pick up a male pastel that is 100% het clown and have 1 in 8 odds at pastel clowns and 1 in 4 odds at normal clowns with each egg. If you hit the male pastel clown, hold him back and the next year have 1 in 4 odds at pastel clowns and 1 in 2 odds at normal clowns when bred to just het clown girls.

Of course, if you have the coin you could just start with a visual pastel clown male and start making pastel clowns right away. The point is, that female you picked up will never become obsolete because she has the potential to make nice babies each season. Males on the other hand are usually replaced by one of thier offspring with more genes each year since they can breed multiple girls.

Have at it, soon you will be computing the possible outcomes of pairings in your sleep and planning 3-4 seasons in advance. :DWelcome to the clown club, it is one of the most exciting recessive genes to be working with because there are so many combos that haven't been done yet. I'll stop now, I could ramble on for pages about clowns.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheReptileEnthusiast

For example, you could pick up a male pastel that is 100% het clown and have 1 in 8 odds at pastel clowns and 1 in 4 odds at normal clowns with each egg. If you hit the male pastel clown, hold him back and the next year have 1 in 4 odds at pastel clowns and 1 in 2 odds at normal clowns when bred to just het clown girls.

Of course, if you have the coin you could just start with a visual pastel clown male and start making pastel clowns right away. The point is, that female you picked up will never become obsolete because she has the potential to make nice babies each season. Males on the other hand are usually replaced by one of thier offspring with more genes each year since they can breed multiple girls.

Have at it, soon you will be computing the possible outcomes of pairings in your sleep and planning 3-4 seasons in advance. :DWelcome to the clown club, it is one of the most exciting recessive genes to be working with because there are so many combos that haven't been done yet. I'll stop now, I could ramble on for pages about clowns.

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I LOVE Clowns [and Pastels and all forms of the various "Bees"] so I think I will buy her.

I have no intentions of "inventing something amazing!"...I'd just enjoy breeding some of the things I personally like.

Even if nothing else pans out, I'll still have a nice, big sweet girl to cuddle.

Can't see the down side....:)

Thank you very much for explaining it to me in a way that I can understand.

:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheReptileEnthusiast

For example, you could pick up a male pastel that is 100% het clown and have 1 in 8 odds at pastel clowns and 1 in 4 odds at normal clowns with each egg. If you hit the male pastel clown, hold him back and the next year have 1 in 4 odds at pastel clowns and 1 in 2 odds at normal clowns when bred to just het clown girls.

Of course, if you have the coin you could just start with a visual pastel clown male and start making pastel clowns right away. The point is, that female you picked up will never become obsolete because she has the potential to make nice babies each season. Males on the other hand are usually replaced by one of thier offspring with more genes each year since they can breed multiple girls.

Have at it, soon you will be computing the possible outcomes of pairings in your sleep and planning 3-4 seasons in advance. :DWelcome to the clown club, it is one of the most exciting recessive genes to be working with because there are so many combos that haven't been done yet. I'll stop now, I could ramble on for pages about clowns.

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Okay, so I bought her and the other 100% Het clown female he had.
[couldn't pass up the "pair" price]

The original one has a very reduced, erratic pattern.
[virtually no "eyes" in the extremely "baroque" alien heads at all]

The second has alien heads and ovals/teardrops [whatever they're called] but they're quite pale and has very dark brown where the black should be and that dark brown is extremely blushed and interspersed with a weird opalescent/iridescent appearance.
[no, she's not about to shed...it's very different "look"]
One has produced Clowns after having been bred to a Pastel.
[?!?]

I don't think the other has been bred yet.

They both have very pale auburn-ish brown heads like a Pastel does.

They both also have a lot of blushing and flames.

Does any of that "mean" anything?

I will post photos after they've settled in and calmed down.

Right now they're resting [restlessly] in large sweater boxes in a dark warm place.

I have given them bowls of water and will let them be until they get used to being in a home.

I was also told the Pastel male I got had a "Lemon pastel" parent [dad, I think] and the "line" was something like "Zoloff".

Has anybody heard of that/him?

Googling that [probably misspelled] name just gave me a million websites on antidepressants and overcoming snake phobias.....:D