whats a good starting moniter

im thinking about getting a moniter and i wanted to know a good moniter i should start off with and if you can point me in the direction of a good care sheet

Have you owned lizards before?

ive had a couple of beardies but no large lizard experience

I have never owned a monitor but have owned tegu's, just make sure to do a lot of research because large lizards in my opinion demand more care than beardies or ball pythons. They have very specific husbandry requirements, take up a lot of space and have a huge appetite. I have heard that Ackies are good beginner monitors.

thanks

I agree on ackies as a good starter monitor, and an argentine b/w tegu to learn about BIG lizards! :D

do you know of a good care sheet

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Originally Posted by purplemuffin

I agree on ackies as a good starter monitor, and an argentine b/w tegu to learn about BIG lizards! :D

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Do you have any ackies?

Maybe you can give the OP some handy advice.

Your "what kind of monitor to get" question leads me to the following conclusions:

1. You have no idea what you might be getting yourself into.
2. You have done no research whatsoever, you haven't even looked at a lot of pictures to see what appeals to you.
3. You don't know if you want a small one, a medium sized one, or a large one. Or even a super large one.

The first things to ask yourself are these questions:

1. Do I have a lot of space available? Even small species require large environments comparable to their size. This is a ball python website but monitors do not fall into the same kind of "easy to take care of" category that ball pythons do.
2. Do I have a lot of money? Monitors are not the "feed once or twice a week" type of pet. You will spend many times the amount of money needed to feed a ball python.
3. Do I know how to establish trust with aggressive reptiles? A lot of reptiles can earn your trust rather quickly; but monitors are intelligent and inquisitive and it takes a lot of patience to earn their trust completely. It can (it has for me) take over a year to establish the trust of a wary specimen.
4. Am I aware that "care sheets" of any value simply do not exist? That's right. I've looked at a LOT of care sheets for monitor lizards, and am yet to find a good one. Save yourself the time and explore other options for gaining information.

Don't just run out there, buy a baby WC exanthematicus, and kill it slowly.

Chris

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Originally Posted by ball python 22

do you know of a good care sheet

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No, no good care sheets.

.......and there is no such thing as a good beginning monitor. There are some monitors that are easier to care for than others, but ALL monitors require lots of time, money, space and knowledge to maintain.

Ackies are NOT good beginning monitors, they are a species that have slightly less demanding care requirements compared to larger monitors. They are less expensive to feed, slightly less expensive to house and cannot send you to the emergency room if they decided to bite you. They are one of the easiest monitors to keep, but the husbandry skills required to properly - and the key word is properly - care for one are substantial. You cannot compare keeping even the smallest monitor to keeping a bearded dragon or a snake.

Even the amount of time required to properly research the housing requirements alone is substantial. They need adequate room in three dimensions, adequate thermoregulation zones, a specialized substrate, etc, etc. That means that you must build them an enclosure that fits the bill - there are no pre-made tanks you can buy, no turn-key set ups that will work.

The information is out there, but not in the form of a cookie cutter care sheet or a four line answer on an internet forum. As with many things in life, there are no short cuts to attaining the knowledge you are asking for.

A good first step would be to peruse Varanus.nl. Lurk and learn. Don't spam the forum with questions that can easily be answered by investing the time to properly research the subject.

Once again, another great post from Skiploder!!

Chris

Thanks for all the good info. Monitors had crossed my mind and you have effectively talked me out of getting one. Good job! :gj:

Are there any other small, easy to care for, not huge enclosure, rodent eating reptiles that are fun to keep?

Ackies or Timors are about the best for starter monitors, they stay relatively small and don't need half a house to themselves.

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Originally Posted by kevinb

Ackies or Timors are about the best for starter monitors, they stay relatively small and don't need half a house to themselves.

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Did you even bother to read any of the previous threads??

Chris

Posts you mean? And yes I did. For the record I had researched getting a timor or ackie for over a year before I got really into my car and didn't have money to spend. They are not as difficult to keep as you are making them out to be, if you do enough research there should be any issues, plus there are PLENTY of montior forums out there for help. So please don't sit there and impune my ability to know one thing from another.

Thanks.

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Originally Posted by kevinb

Posts you mean? And yes I did. For the record I had researched getting a timor or ackie for over a year before I got really into my car and didn't have money to spend. They are not as difficult to keep as you are making them out to be, if you do enough research there should be any issues, plus there are PLENTY of montior forums out there for help. So please don't sit there and impune my ability to know one thing from another.

Thanks.

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I know of two real monitor forums and both of them are extremely hard on newbies.

So do you currently or have you ever owned a monitor?

Moniter...eh.


Good luck!

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Originally Posted by kevinb

I had researched getting a timor or ackie for over a year before I got really into my car and didn't have money to spend.

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Doesn't that mean no I haven't?

Hmm




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yes i know they are more expensive to keep take a lot more time than ball pythons yes i have the space im just asking what species i should start off with first

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Originally Posted by kevinb

They are not as difficult to keep as you are making them out to be,

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Originally Posted by kevinb

Doesn't that mean no I haven't?

Hmm




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If you've never kept one, how do you have any idea on how difficult they are to keep? What did you base your recommendation to the OP on what species to keep if you have absolutely zero experience with any varanid?

Silly me for ASSuming that someone who would offer to comment on how easy they were to keep had actually succesfully kept one.

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Originally Posted by ball python 22

yes i know they are more expensive to keep take a lot more time than ball pythons yes i have the space im just asking what species i should start off with first

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What do you know about the basics of varanid husbandry?

Answer that question and we'll go from there.............

People say many of things are difficult. they are only difficult if you don't fully understand what your doing. Juat becase I haven't keep one doesn't mean I don't know about them. That's pretty presumptuous to assume I'm a complete moron. I have kept many difficult species, may not be monitors, but the same applies I did my research and succeeded.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

What do you know about the basics of varanid husbandry?

Answer that question and we'll go from there.............

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the enclosure should be twice as long as the animal it self and and as wide as the animal is long but bigger is better

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Originally Posted by kevinb

People say many of things are difficult. they are only difficult if you don't fully understand what your doing. Juat becase I haven't keep one doesn't mean I don't know about them. That's pretty presumptuous to assume I'm a complete moron. I have kept many difficult species, may not be monitors, but the same applies I did my research and succeeded.

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It's interesting - you've accused people of impugning you and calling you moron - when that hasn't happened, so stop acting like a defensive kid and compose yourself.

People read these forums looking for advice, Bad advice takes many forms - wrong information, spreading hearsay, etc. Another form is giving advice when you have absolutely ZERO experience to back up what you are saying.

Instead of getting all huffy and puffy next time your bad advice is questioned - try this instead - avoid the whole mess by prefacing your "advice" by offering the caveat that you essentially have no experience to back up your recommendations. That way, someone genuinely seeking informed opinions can easily differentiate between your advice and the advice of someone who has actual experience in the subject at hand.

No snake or other lizard approaches the captive husbandry requirements of varanids. Period. If you had actually successfully kept a varanid instead of simply reading about them on forums and books, I think you are probably intelligent enough to not have made such an asinine claim.

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Originally Posted by ball python 22

the enclosure should be twice as long as the animal it self and and as wide as the animal is long but bigger is better

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Really?

What else?

I recommend Komodo dragons!!

I have not kept one, but I have seen cool pictures of them, and they are awesome!! ;)

I always take lizard advice from someone who's collection consists of 3 snakes!!

Chris

savannahs are my favorite but they are smaller than most monitors well atleast ackies but they get big but not too big and there so happpy and fat and lazy but you would really need to try to feed a savannah on only insects not mice ..in the wild the mostly eat bugs

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

I know of two real monitor forums and both of them are extremely hard on newbies.

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I guess it's all monitor people that are extremely hard on newbies. Another good reason to NOT get a monitor. :gj:

You "experts" have been great. Peace out! :cool:

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Originally Posted by JohnNJ

I guess it's all monitor people that are extremely hard on newbies. Another good reason to NOT get a monitor. :gj:

You "experts" have been great. Peace out! :cool:

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I agree. You can't win with "experts". ;)

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Originally Posted by mumps

I always take lizard advice from someone who's collection consists of 3 snakes!!

Chris

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I agree with most of what has been said on this thread, but that's unfair. I know people with one snake (or none) that are more experienced than anyone I've talked to. What's in your current collection shouldn't define your experience as a keeper.

That being said, I know people with dozens of snakes, lizards, etc. that I wouldn't take advice from when it comes to caring for a roach.

I do agree when it comes to keeping Monitors you should SUCCESSFULLY kept (or still keeping) one to give advice. I could have regurgitated information about keeping them all day, but it takes actually keeping them to understand the information and be able to properly convey it to others.

Honestly, if you can't handle the Monitor keepers, you won't be able to handle the Monitors. They are the easiest thing to deal with. They won't claw you, sling feces in your face, shoot out of their enclosure leaving you on a mad dash to wrangle them back, tail whip you, or bite you so hard you are brought to your knees. While there are a lot of species that are considered "docile", all Monitors have bad days and will let you know about it. They love to communicate with their handlers, even if that means becoming sick or dying.

In my opinion, OP should do vastly more research before entertaining the idea of keeping any sort of Monitor or Tegu.

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Originally Posted by JohnNJ

I guess it's all monitor people that are extremely hard on newbies. Another good reason to NOT get a monitor. :gj:

You "experts" have been great. Peace out! :cool:

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No monitor keepers are actually very helpful when it comes to assisting people with questions. However, the two monitor forums don't really cater to people who can't be bothered to do basic research.

There are two problems here and neither have to do with the "experts" as you so poutily made reference to.

It has to do with people who have nor experience giving out bad advice, and it has to do with the notion that any sort of monitor is a beginning pet.

There are plenty of monitor species I have absolutely no experience with. I do have experience with both acanthurus and tristis, and can positively assert that even though they are easier to keep than most other varanids, they are still more difficult to keep than just about any other reptile out there.

After seeings sick and neglected varanids over many, many years, I have absolutely no patience with someone conceited enough and unwise enough to state that varanids aren't that hard to keep.

There is a difference between being a jerk and being a person who cares more about the fate of somne innocent animal than the feelings of someone immature enough to give out advice on something they know nothing about. If that bothers you, feel free to put all of us "varanid" experts on ignore. It won't hurt our feelings one bit.

To the OP: my advice still stands. Join Varanus.nl and browse/search the forums. Take a hard look at the following when you search through the posts:

(1) Ackie set-ups.

(2) Discussions regarding optimum substrate type and depth.

(3) Discussions regarding optimum temperatures, humidity and thermoregulation zones.

(4) Discussions regarding proper diet.

You will see a trend in the posts. Pay particular attention to the complexity of the setups in terms of space in 3-dimensions and how those requirements are met. Pay close attention to how keepers provide for varying levels of basking requirements and the temps of each.

Understand what substrate is preferred, how it's mixed and why it is necessary to provide. It's not enough to understand what all of these requirements are, but why? Understanding "why" is the key to meeting the many requirements of these animals.

After you've done that research, ask yourself if you can properly provide for these requirements.

After you've done all that, I have no issues offering you further advice or information via PM. I'd hazard a guess that Chris would offer you the same help. All I ask is that you put in the effort to do your own research to cover the basics and have the maturity to accurately assess as to whether or not you are ready for this level of commitment to an animal.

I had a nile monitor given to me when i was just out of high school with little knowledge about them. Poor guy...nuff said.

Definitely NOT for the beginner or intermediate herp enthusiast.

Just my 2 cents..

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Originally Posted by JohnNJ

Thanks for all the good info. Monitors had crossed my mind and you have effectively talked me out of getting one. Good job! :gj:

Are there any other small, easy to care for, not huge enclosure, rodent eating reptiles that are fun to keep?

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I have said this before and I'll say it again - I keep over 30 snakes and have done so for over three decades. Maintaining a building full of snakes is much easier than maintaining just a couple of species of monitor. As an adult with little in the way of budget restrictions and a separate structure on our property for our animals, I made the hard decision to stop keeping and breeding varanids over a year ago. I have the healthiest of respect for people who continue to properly care for these animals and still find a way to spend time with their wives, raise their kids and work their jobs.

Many of the most commonly kept small varanids (like ackies and tristis) do best on insectivorious diets. All sorts of health issues can arise when fed rodent diets.

While a pair of ackies can do well in an enclosure in the 4x2 size range (the bare minimum in terms of floor space), their need to burrow requires a deep, diggable substrate that retains humidity without getting to wet. That requires an additional two to three feet in depth and substantial weight.

It also requires some skill in setting up a basking site in excess of 140 degrees while maintaining the proper ambient.

So to sum it up, I know of no small monitor that eats rodents. While the enclosure size required is not "huge" it is certainly larger in three dimensions and much heavier than any comparable set-up for another species of lizard.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

So to sum it up, I know of no small monitor that eats rodents. While the enclosure size required is not "huge" it is certainly larger in three dimensions and much heavier than any comparable set-up for another species of lizard.

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I didn't say monitor. I said reptile. I will never get a monitor based on their needs and my time. So again, any other reptiles fit the bill?

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Originally Posted by JohnNJ

I didn't say monitor. I said reptile. I will never get a monitor based on their needs and my time. So again, any other reptiles fit the bill?

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None that I have any experience with.

If the rodent thing is negotiable, I've always enjoyed keeping uromastyx. While they are not "easy" to keep, they are much, much easier than varanids.

If we are talking ANY reptiles, there are many smaller species of colubrids that are much more interactive than ball pythons. Rhamphiophis, many of the smaller pituophis, etc.

If you have a little bit more room, any of the drymarchon are as close as you can get to a monitor lizard in a snake. Relatviely intelligent, reactive to their owners.......................

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

None that I have any experience with.

If the rodent thing is negotiable, I've always enjoyed keeping uromastyx. While they are not "easy" to keep, they are much, much easier than varanids.

If we are talking ANY reptiles, there are many smaller species of colubrids that are much more interactive than ball pythons. Rhamphiophis, many of the smaller pituophis, etc.

If you have a little bit more room, any of the drymarchon are as close as you can get to a monitor lizard in a snake. Relatviely intelligent, reactive to their owners.......................

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My fault for not clarifying further. Non-snake reptile.

Ive have had geckos,skinks,tegus,bearded dragons & nothing comes close to what a monitor requires to live properly.As said they need huge enclosure comparing to other reptiles,need deep substrate & require diferente level of heat threw out the enclosure,with lots of hiding spaces & proper diverse feeding of what there diet consistes in the wild.If over feed there will be consequences!!! Varanus are not for any beginer reptiles.After having all these pets above & then some I tried my self to raise one & failed,its ben quite a while & im still debating if i should get another ,or quit. I have a 4 x 3 x3 enclosure ,that i might give it a try one more time..The savannah monitor or varanus exanthematicus is truelly the most abused reptile in the trade...Its sad to see so many Varanus are perished from poor knowlegde from there owners......Its really what you want to do,or really want...Just remember do alot of reading researching before even building a enclosure to house one...never get one,without having the proper housing please...The best of luck to what you decide to do....

To clarify my opinion and not start more uproar I will say this. One: it is better to research before anything, and sometimes when someone asks what a good monitor, snake, turtle, etc to start with they are looking for a narrower search than what there is out there, so I don't understand why everyone bashes someone for asking a question on guidence towards a better idea. Two: yes I have never kept a monitor before, and I don't have any experience with them, but giving someone a flake of a possible idea and getting yelled at about it isn't the best way of handling things. Three: difficulty is really in the eye of the beholder, one thing can be easy for one and hard for another, just like anything.

And I'm just going to close with this. Research is your best and noble friend, no one would get anywhere without it. So do loads before jumping into anything, and if you find you can't handle it before hand then don't do it. I didn't mean to sound like a royal jerk on my previous posts. I just find it offensive that I can't anwser someones question, leading them to a better point to look into and research and get attacked for lack of experience. There really is no good "starter" monitor, and ill admit that, so your either dedicating a lot of time, money, and sweat into them or they aren't for you. I don't have one for that reason. I'm never home and don't have the time for the upcare.

So before attacking anyone look at the picture as a whole not a piece of it.

Thank you
And again sorry for my juvenile behavior.



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I have never owned a monitor but I have a 4 year old Argentine tegu that I wouldn't trade for ANYTHING! He is awesome and has a great personality. He is nothing at all like a python (in regards to caging, interacting, feeding, lighting/heating, etc. ---he requires a lot more attention) but in my opinion he is a lot of fun and has an individual personality (he has the demeanor of a cat). AND what does make raising Argentine tegus easier to raise is that they hibernate for about 4-5 months out of the year.

Overall large lizards (in my experience) are VERY rewarding, but they do require a large commitment compared with any other reptile I have owned. And make sure to do LOTS and LOTS of research before diving in. I researched tegus for about 6 months before ordering one from Bobby at Varnyard (highly recommend) before it was born and waited about 4 months to get it.

I really hope varanus.nl accepts my request...it would be nice to lurk from experienced keepers. Is cybersalvator the other forum that's good? Otherwise the only forums I've been able to find are sub-forums on other snake/ reptile forums...

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Originally Posted by gardenfiend138

I really hope varanus.nl accepts my request...it would be nice to lurk from experienced keepers. Is cybersalvator the other forum that's good? Otherwise the only forums I've been able to find are sub-forums on other snake/ reptile forums...

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Not a forum, but a plethora of great information:

http://varanidae.org/biawak