Rats Sneezing/Dying-Vet Visit Results-Going Forward-NEED HELP

Backstory: Several rats died. Only thing visible was a little blood around the nostrils. Lots of sneezing started quickly. Some became lethargic with labored breathing.

Initial treatment: Started them on Tylan last Friday - 3ml of Tylan 200 per gallon of water in 8oz water bottles. Started with sugar mixed in for a few days and then stopped the sugar. Refilling bottles twice a day with a complete wash and fill every three days.

Initial results: Sneezing has almost completely stopped after a few days. Very sporadic now like it was before the illness. One female died one week after treatment started and another (isolated female) was put down at the same time with labored breathing.

Vet visit today: Pet rats kept separately from feeder colony were still sneezing. Vet prescribed Baytril and Doxy for 14 days. Vet said to cull any rats in the breeding group that had blood in their nostrils or showed symptoms like sneezing or difficulty breathing. Bacteria is very easily spread, He said to continue with the Tylan in water for the main group and disinfect everything with CHD.

Prognosis: The bacteria stays in their system and can (most likely will) cause another outbreak which will require another round of Tylan. Only way to get rid of it is to cull all of the rats and start over but no guarantees because most rats will also carry the bacteria.

Vet said that it would be OK to feed reptiles the rats that were infected. He also said the Tylan in the rats' system would not be an issue for the reptiles either and would not have a cumulative effect.

Office visit with medication came to $200 but I needed the consultation for peace of mind. The pet rats being medicated with Baytril and Doxy have no better chance of recovery or eliminating any reoccurence than the ones on Tylan. Save your money.

NEED HELP - Does anyone with LONG TERM (years) rat breeding experience have anything to add? Are your experiences different? Does the URI reoccur with any frequency or were you able to know it out? How? Anything else you could add would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Once a rat falls to a bad URI it ussually happens again. The URIs im having are minor due to the chill in my rooms. My home doesnt have heating. \

Your vet isn't talking about mycoplasma is he?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bokuza

Once a rat falls to a bad URI it ussually happens again. The URIs im having are minor due to the chill in my rooms. My home doesnt have heating. \

Your vet isn't talking about mycoplasma is he?

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Mycoplasma is the primary cause of URI and is present is most, if not all, rats. It stays dormant until the immune system is weakened by a variety of things like a chill in the room. Other reasons are genetics, old age, poor cleaning, ammonia build up, overcrowding, stress, overbreeding.

All cases of URI are minor initially but progress quickly and can go from sneezing to death in less than 24 hours. Rats hide their symptoms until it is too late to treat them.

Only lab rats initially born by cesearian in a sterile environment (myco resides in the female's genital area), and future generations kept that way. can they be guaranteed to not have mycoplasma. Once in the general population they will pick up the bacteria.

I'm guessing that if it is caught early and the rats survive through the course of antibiotics, the myco go backs in to a dormant state until the immune system is again compromised. Feeders and breeders typically aren't around very long so I'm guessing that a new flare up could be avoided with some good husbandry practices.

Again, the vet said neither the myco or the Tylan effects the reptiles so the rats can be used for food.

I know big breeders may be reluctant to share their experiences but I think it would be helpful for the community. Everyone should understand that myco flare ups are normal and do not effect the quality of the feeders produced.

Please PM me if you would rather not discuss it in public. Thanks.

Did some more research. Myco is a form of URI but not all URI's are caused by Myco.

Here's the rub - all are treated the same way. If the URI returns (chronic) it is, most likely, Myco. URI or Myco can have secondary infections leading to serious illness and death. Calling it a URI may make some feel better but it's the same basic result.

The plan seems to be to treat everyone. Cull the really sick and their immediate tubmates including any babies. Clean and disinfect everything. Replace the breeders you lose.

No one is posting their experiences here and I have not received anything privately. I presume no one is disputing anything I posted.

I also understood about the myco, URI part.

What I am trying to grasp is why cull all tub mates? Are we assuming that because they are not getting better that it is something worse than myco that has caused the URI and to prevent the bacterial/viral infection from spreading farther, you need to cull? This is what I am assuming and it makes sense.

Maybe in my stage of my colony, culling multiple tubs would be completely devastating to my production. But then it would benefit my colony in the long run.

And now I am just thinking out loud. Let me know if my ramblings are correct.

There is mycoplasma and then there are other contagious bacteria/viruses that is not myco that can present the same symptoms as myco. No cure for any of the above, but to reduce risk, cull and rebuild with healthy stock to keep the miscellaneous bacteria/virus out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aldebono

I also understood about the myco, URI part.

What I am trying to grasp is why cull all tub mates? Are we assuming that because they are not getting better that it is something worse than myco that has caused the URI and to prevent the bacterial/viral infection from spreading farther, you need to cull? This is what I am assuming and it makes sense.

Maybe in my stage of my colony, culling multiple tubs would be completely devastating to my production. But then it would benefit my colony in the long run.

And now I am just thinking out loud. Let me know if my ramblings are correct.

There is mycoplasma and then there are other contagious bacteria/viruses that is not myco that can present the same symptoms as myco. No cure for any of the above, but to reduce risk, cull and rebuild with healthy stock to keep the miscellaneous bacteria/virus out.

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Culling is for the overall health of the colony. Could you save the tubmates? Maybe but with lots of effort and it's not worth it to me.

I have already put down a bunch of breeders that showed no signs of illness. I would rather take the hit now and hopefully get it done. I scrubbed and sanitized everything including throwing out all of the lab block. My hands are raw but you could perform surgery in there.

Right now the remaining breeders all seem fine. No sneezing, everyone eating and drinking well, babies are fat. I think I'm over the hump.

BTW, the pet rats on Baytril and Doxy are doing well also.

I guess what got me caught up is "culling". I automatically imagined killed and thrown out. Freezing and feeding is different, but I hate to throw out a good meal. I hate to waste anything. Couldn't you have microwaved the lab block or baked it at a certain temp/time to sanitize it?

I am glad your pet rats are doing well. We have one that I would probably go above and beyond for. Some of them are special.

Off Topic.. Then you get some that eat their babies like its Halloween candy and you don't feel so bad anymore!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aldebono

I guess what got me caught up is "culling". I automatically imagined killed and thrown out. Freezing and feeding is different, but I hate to throw out a good meal. I hate to waste anything.

Couldn't you have microwaved the lab block or baked it at a certain temp/time to sanitize it?

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Could I have done something to save the 50lbs of lab block? Maybe, but not worth the risk.

I only froze the normal rats that I culled.

I threw out any rat that died on it's own and any rat that looked ill.

Coming in late, but thinking out loud....

If you culled rats that were sick, not horribly sick yet, but sick none the less, or around those who were sick, and you go to your freezer to thaw them out and feed them off, can't you run the risk of re-introduce the bacteria?

Freezing slows the bacteria growth down, doesn't eliminate it. It will still be present on your rats when you take them out and thaw them.

A key point I made is that all rats already carry the bacteria. That includes rats from private breeders, pet stores, online frozen dealers.

I didn't cull to eliminate the bacteria. I did it to reduce the suffering and reduce my work going forward.

Rats hide their symptoms so by the time you see that they're ill they are pretty far along. URI's cause lung damage and scaring which leaves them open to another round of problems. I simply improved my odds by removing tubmates of visibly ill rats.

The vet assured me that the rats are fine for reptiles. He is taking some for his snakes.

Very interesting, I have already learned something new today:gj:

Just recently started watching the rat forum here so hope this hasn't already been shared a hundred times, but.... http://ratguide.com/ is an INCREDIBLE site with the most comprehensive health/pet owning guide for rat owners. The search function works great too.

Anyways, there are a few viruses that once an exposure happens can be devastating for rat colonies. We currently have an outbreak of one of those viruses hitting a well known rattery here in Florida, Sendai virus (SDA is another) and results of serology are not yet in but expected soon. I hope your colony clears up. Quarantine for any new rats coming in to a colony is important whether they are for feeders or pets to help prevent spread of disease. The info on Myco already shared here in this thread is pretty spot on. Myco itself isn't usually a problem, but when combined with other viral or bacterial outbreaks it can really complicate the situation and make treating more difficult.

Another point of clarification - I am talking about bacteria (mycoplasma) which can be treated successfully with antibiotics such as Baytril, Doxy and Tylan. A virus (Sendai, SDA, Parvo, Corona) is typically not treated with antibiotics. Rats that survive a virus; ie: their immune system keeps it at bay, can still be carriers. Whole colonies could be wiped out by a virus but most recover from bacteria if treated quickly. It's serious enough that rat groups track viral outbreaks around the country

All of us have bacteria and viruses in our bodies every day. They only cause a problem when our immune system is weakened. Same with rats except that they have a higher metabolism which allows the illness to progress at a much faster rate. That coupled with their instinct to hide their illness is often fatal.

Stress is big factor in lowering resistance to germs. Stress can occur by quick changes in temperature, ammonia buildup, change in diet, over breeding, etc. I would guess that cleaning day is stressfull for some rats. Keeping their environment within a set range of values will help to reduce stress levels.

Knock on wood after breeding several thousands of rats each year for the past 4 years I never had any URI in my colony even though winter temps go as low as 48 degrees.

The keys to me are

#1 start a colony with healthy stocks preferably someone breeding rat not pet store rats.
#2 Quarantine just like snakes new blood must be quarantined.
#3 Once you have a strong well established colony limit bringing in new blood, line breed your best genes
#4 Husbandry do not let ammonia build up, clean at least once a week allow for proper ventilation and invest in an exhaust fan

If it was me I would cull any rats in the tubs and in the rack especially more so if you use a watering system.

Not sure how big your colony is and what the impact would be on your production but I would like consider starting from scratch as well making sure everything has been bleached including water line if you use a watering system.

I just took a sick male in to the vet. Left after a Xray(to confirm pneumonia/chest congestion) and the baytril/doxie meds. When I got home, I found the other male who was acting sick already dead.

Understand, I took the one rat in to be diagnosed so I could treat the colony if it spreads, not to treat a single rat. But at this point, since the other truly ill rat died, I'm treating only him in a bin by himself. I though there were 4 ill rats, but I'm not finding any rats that act ill now. I did have one male die on sunday which is when I noticed the rats looking ill.

Two major questions...
FIrst, they gave me ORAL meds, and getting the meds into the rat's mouth is near impossible. He said not to put it into the water, as dosing wouldn't be specific. Any easier way to get meds into rats?

Second, without knowing EXACTLY which thing caused the RI, how contagious could it be? Is there any way to know? Is it probably something all rats have, but the stressed/old rats fall to it? Should I plan on eliminating more rats even if they look healthy? Right now I don't have replacement breeders, so I'm hoping I don't have to.

I'll put my .02 in, and hope not to start a war with people that are "against pet stores"....
First off, don't lump all pet stores together. Most pet stores are just fine. Just like most puppy breeders are just fine... A few bad apples in every barrel. It's insulting when you lump mom and pop shops with the big chain stores that hide the sick animals in the back. I find it insulting that a chain store will sell you a snake, but not a rodent to feed it, unless it's F/T. give me a break...
There are a lot of people like me, breed rodents, and sell them to many sources, including chain pet stores, but I also have a pet store myself. ALL RATS HAVE BACTERIAL INFECTION. Period. Just like all captive Bearded Dragons have Coccidia. The problem comes with stress, mainly from poor husbandry. It flares up because of stress, and takes over the respiratory system, causing myco or URI. If you go to a store, and they sell you a rat(s) that are covered in urine, you may want to take your business elsewhere... They obviously don't clean often enough. Rats are generally clean animals, but if their enclosure is so soiled that they can't get clean, then they run into the possibility of getting sick, same as any animal.
Now then, that is off my chest...
Sorry, it just urks me when people generalize.

I've been raising rodents for 20-25 years, and yes, I've had my share of illness in colonies.
John, you did what was right, you consulted a vet, you paid for his experience. Most people won't put out that much money for a feeder or even a pet. I also think you did the right thing by culling, I may not have culled tubmates, but any sick rat should be quarantined or culled.
Personally, I use Baytril with good results, but if it's not helping after 7 treatments(14days), I usually just cull the rat, mainly just for the cost. I've been very lucky over the years, and never had a bad flare up, but I won't lie and say it doesn't happen occasionally.
And, I introduce new blood in very often.... I line breed my rodents, but I also like to bring in new blood from friends. Usually I buy weaned rats and grow them up, that's the quarantine period for me...

I'm sorry this is happening to you.

For your first question - baytril and doxy must be administered individually. Dosage is by weight. I put Tylan in the water for all of the breeders.

The two rats I have on baytril and doxy are pets and submit to handling and dosing. I would not try it with the breeders.

For your second question - you should re-read the whole thread which should give you enough info to decide how to proceed.

Let us know what happens.

Thanks!I appreciate the help. The dosing is just a pain, but I'll do my bestest. If I can tube feed a hatchling python, I'm sure I can figure out dosing a breeder rat.

I'll just watch for any illness for now, and isolate any sick rats. Right now, I've checked a couple times and still don't see any other ill rats, just the one.

Wolfy, have found a wonderful way to get liquid meds down our rats when needed. We use perhaps a 1/4 teaspoon of Half & Half cream and mix the meds in. If they've got any appetite at all they usually dive in and it's gone.

These viruses are killer, what they are basically doing is weakening the immune systems enough so that their latent bacteria get a chance to get a hold and cause pneumonia (usually) which is then treated with Doxy/Baytril or whatever your vets prescribe.

Our recent Sendai outbreak in FL started with 2 very healthy looking rats from Petco in Orlando. The rats were almost 2 weeks into their new home when all hell broke loose and rats started getting very sick and dieing..... quickly. They have treated whole colonies (pet, not feeder colonies so not generally as large as feeder breeders) with antibiotic concoction and nebulizers as needed.

Thanks!! I will pick up some half-and-half!!

The idea of infecting any of my animals freaks me out. I'm paranoid about the snakes and usually won't touch a snake outside of home without disinfectant(and not that hand sanitizer). I did bring in some rats, but these are the older breeders I got first, and they weren't in great shape when I got them. They've improved SO much with a great diet, clean cages, etc. Hopefully whatever this is, passes quickly and doesn't turn into anything huge. I'd hate to end up culling everything and starting over. That would set me back months.

Mine will fight over yogurt. It might stick on the spoon better and will give them some pro-biotics while on antibiotics.

I'll get yogurt too. If the rats won't eat that, I will. Thanks!!

The sickie is actually up walking around the bin, although you can hear him wheezing a bit. I checked all the bins again, still no one else seems to be ill.

I dont want to jack this thread or take it too far off topic but what temps are recommended for rats??

Generally the range is 60-80 degrees. I have read here that colonies are kept outside of that range and do well.

Back on topic, a sudden or severe change in temp can cause stress which effects their immune systems.

Update, I've had another rat die, and several begin to show respitory signs.

Today I dosed several rats. I was told .1 ml of one drug and .5 ml of the other drug, and most of the breeder rack are approximately the same size. The vet never weighed the rat I took in, so I guess he's assuming the weight? For the bigger males I tried to give a bit more, and for smaller rats, I tried to give a bit less.

I went with the yogurt. Results for administering meds are...

Some rats would lick the meds right out of the syringe as if it were a water bottle nipple. Some enjoyed the yogurt(one male tried to eat everyone's yogurt) but some showed no interest in the yogurt or the meds straight, despite not being lethargic really. They simply didn't seem to care for it.

Those I ended up wrapping in a hand towel and giving the dose into their mouth. I think I'm wearing a bit of the meds, but they got at least most of the meds. Handling them to dose them stressed them I know, but only one seemed to go further into distress over it. Most simply dug in the bedding and gave me dirty looks.

The sicky one that went to the vet looks better than any of them. He's alert and energetic. In fact, he refused to be picked up, running about, so I gave him a tiny dish of yogurt with meds and he ate it with gusto. His fast recovery gives me some hope that the meds will improve the sick ones quickly.

Any advice on giving meds in yogurt without having a rat with an empty bin to itself would be appreciated. Right now, I'm putting in tiny dishes with the yogurt meds, watching to see who eats, and if two rats want to both eat it, I simply give them another 'helping' to share again. That way both rats end up with about a 'helping' each. Takes a while to get through all the rats this way, but I feel I'm dosing all the rats acting sick this way.

At this point, I'm expecting more deaths. I'll be watching to see how the bins do. If this is a typical infection as detailed by several people on this thread, I'll end up culling some animals and hoping that most make it. If all rats have the bacteria, I'll just make sure that I acquire younger healthy rats for breeders when I find them available, planning on these older ones not lasting tons longer. Again, since they were not in great shape when I got the colony(when I got the used racks) I originally figured that I'd be replacing them fairly soon. I just didn't expect them to start getting sick and dropping over dead after they got used to good food and clean bins!

I know its probably too late to really be helpful but I have used Duramycin 10 from tsc with success I use about half a teaspoon in an 8 oz. water bottle replace everyday for 14 days. I haven't treated many rats but the few that I have treated have responded well
Sorry your having troubles I hope It works out for you

~ Karl

Thanks, I might pick up some to try on some of the rats that really don't submit to taking their meds easily.

My vet calculated the dosage based on weight. Maybe you can use it as a guide.

Baytril twice daily for 14 days.
128g rat - .03ml
276g rat - .06ml
466g rat - .10ml

Doxy compound 10mg/ml-twice daily for 14 days.
128g rat - .06ml
276g rat - .14ml
466g rat - .25ml

The Baytril was from the vet. The Doxy was specially made by a compounding pharmacist because it was lower than any premade dosage. The Doxy alone was $32.

Watch them carefully and isolate any that get worse after starting the meds.

Good luck.

Thanks! I appreciate it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KLMuller

I know its probably too late to really be helpful but I have used Duramycin 10 from tsc with success I use about half a teaspoon in an 8 oz. water bottle replace everyday for 14 days. I haven't treated many rats but the few that I have treated have responded well
Sorry your having troubles I hope It works out for you

~ Karl

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Just curious. How did you come up with that dosage? You're talking about 8 teaspoons per gallon of water. I also read that it's light sensitive. One package at TSC will make a little less that 5 gallons. Changing the water daily on a good size colony will add up quickly.

Anyone compare recovery time with Tylan to Duramycin?

The dosage and what to use was told to me by the rodent breeder I sell most of my extras to. I did just take him at his word at that point, and he said a small pinch, but I have done some research since I have a print out at home for dosing rats on the same antibiotic under a different name, I think it's teramycin. But would have to check at home to be sure

I have read that if you black out the bottle it can last three days but I don't have experience with it in gallons.

I use 8 oz. water bottles for medication and the biggest I would go is 32 oz. and I don't have a watering system in my quarantine area

My experience with it has been the sneezing and wheezing stops around day three or four.

Has anyone tried the F10 via nebulizer just to wonder, I have read this being used for rabbits

~ Karl

With the duramycin 10, you should have the bottles at least half full when you add the powder. If you dump the powder into just a wet bottle, it turns into concrete.

I'm treating any rats with true symptoms with the dual antibiotics and the ones that I think I heard sneeze, etc, with the Duramycin. I lost another adult female today. Most are looking less poorly.

My vet disapproves of "shotgun" treating groups of animals. I prefer treating a colony/herd, but he's pet-oriented. I'd rather treat a healthy rat unneeded, than wait until a sick rat gets sick enough to look terrible, THEN treat it. I wouldn't treat healthy rats just because, but since many only show some sneezing then look fine, while others sneeze then look terrible, I'd rather treat the colony of breeders.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

My vet disapproves of "shotgun" treating groups of animals. I prefer treating a colony/herd, but he's pet-oriented. I'd rather treat a healthy rat unneeded, than wait until a sick rat gets sick enough to look terrible, THEN treat it. I wouldn't treat healthy rats just because, but since many only show some sneezing then look fine, while others sneeze then look terrible, I'd rather treat the colony of breeders.

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Unless your vet is giving you a great discount on his prices, I would look for another vet. He disapproves of the "shotgun" approach yet he dispenses medication that requires the weight of the animal to calculate the required amount without weighing the animal. Brilliant!

FYI - There are foods available for rodents, and many other animals, that contain antibiotics. It's more expensive than regular food but not by much. It seems that farmers use this type of food for livestock that won't be alive too long but has a good chance of getting sick like cattle, chickens, hogs. They make pet versions for small animals and birds.

Wolfy, I'm really bummed for you that your rats are exhibiting these symptoms. There's currently an outbreak of Sendai in an Orlando rat breeders colony that I know of...... it sounds suspiciously like what's happening with yours.

This is a link to the formulary for most drugs and their dosage for rats:

http://www.rmca.org/Articles/dchart.htm

Sendai can wipe out a lot of rats quickly in a colony, the ones I know of are being treated shotgun method WITH her vets blessing. They're nebulizing in addition to Baytril/Doxy cocktail.

Thanks again.

With my vet, I do get a discount, since I work next door. He's a decent vet, he just isn't always super up-to-date on exotics. He's willing to work with me though, which is more than I can say for most vets. He even understands that these rats are breeders to make feeders, etc, so tries to take into account they are eventually supposed to be food animals, instead of insisting they be pets and not considering which drugs are administered.

I appreciate the link to dosing/meds on rats. I'm not sure if any of these rats have been anywhere near any colonies in Orlando, but of course, it's entirely possible, since Orlando is not far at all.

If it's Sendai, is there a way to diagnose other than just symptoms, and what's the prognosis overall? Is there a write-up somewhere about it?

With the Duramycin 10, I have to dump/wash out the bottles each day, right? With the 8 oz bottles, they did not drink all of it(some did) and I'm dumping whatever was left and re-mixing and re-filling. The whole bag of med at TractorSupply only cost about $5 btw.

NO dead rats today. I'd also like to say, only adult rats have died. None of the babies, none of the young ones, not one of the new rats. Only the older breeder rats. I still have pregnant rats that look due, litters of pinkies and I weaned a litter of 10, with another litter of 15 that's getting closer to weaning. Does this sort of thing usually kill adults instead of babies?

There is some sneezing still, but no rats look horrible. I'm going to dose the same as yesterday. Duramycin in water bottles and then certain ones are getting the double Baytril/Doxy doses(in yogurt).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

With the Duramycin 10, I have to dump/wash out the bottles each day, right?

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I dump and rinse the bottles daily,
I have accidentally left a bottle siting out for a week or so and it seems to coagulate a little so I would continue rinsing.

I have treated a bin with three females a male and their babies, another female and a new comer male that is in quarantine right now, so my experience is pretty limited.

Hopefully it continues to get better for you

~ Karl

I looked up the doxy on that site and it says specifically "no milk products" with it. Is it really bad to give it in yogurt then?

Grrrrr...... I am guilty along with many others too of using yogurt/milk products for administering drugs. Going to do a little more research. Here is the link on Rat Guide for the Sendai Virus info: http://ratguide.com/health/viruses/sendai_virus_sv.php

No matter what kind of rat breeders people are, if for feeders or pets the Rat Guide site is awesome and most inclusive care sheets online anywhere.

Thank you for the link.

As far as the milk, I was thinkiing perhaps a fruit baby food? The rats might like that just as much but no milk products.

I think the reason milk isn't recommended is because it essentially coats the stomach/intestine walls and would prevent them absorbing the medication like they should. That's why on a lot of human prescription pill bottles, depending what it is, they say either to take with or NOT with milk, depending on how the medication is meant to be absorbed/ingested. Good luck on getting them to pull through...pulling for you. I just started raising my own feeders too and have my first two litters, so I can understand your misgivings/frustrations at the thought of having to start over from scratch. Hopefully it won't come to that and they'll all pull through none the worse for the experience. Good luck and take care! :gj:

That's what I assumed as well. I wasn't up to going to the store(or further than the laptop honestly) today so in the morning I'll pick up the fruit baby food.

Update:

It's been three weeks since starting the Tylan and all of the rats are thriving. No sneezing, everyone looks healthy, very active, eating and drinking well. Even the new babies are fat and happy and all the litters were large (16+). Females are pregnant so breeding is continuing.

The pet rats on Baytril and Doxy were better within a few days and are now back to normal. I do not think it was worth the money for those two medications. The Tylan would have done the same thing.

I think culling sped up the recovery of the entire colony. I also think that the Tylan 200 was a better choice than the Tylan 50. I mixed 3ml per gallon instead of the 2.5ml recommended. I will continue with the Tylan for another week (4 total).

I hope this thread helps. Thanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JohnNJ

A key point I made is that all rats already carry the bacteria. That includes rats from private breeders, pet stores, online frozen dealers.

I didn't cull to eliminate the bacteria. I did it to reduce the suffering and reduce my work going forward.

Rats hide their symptoms so by the time you see that they're ill they are pretty far along. URI's cause lung damage and scaring which leaves them open to another round of problems. I simply improved my odds by removing tubmates of visibly ill rats.


I had a similar thing with me. I had purchased rats from a breeder (mom and pop shop) here in my area. Got them home and they were sneezing etc everywhere. Def. had RI. I knew right away. My mom has pet rats and the symptoms were the same as the 2 girls she had that died from RI. I took them to the vet to see if I could 'save' them because I was hoping to get them to be my breeders for my feeders. Anyway, the Vet said that they were to far gone that it wouldn't be worth the expense. So, I asked him what to do with them. He said that I could feed it to the snakes. Supposedly, that if the rat has an RI and gets eaten by the snake then the snake will NOT get it. That SUPPOSEDLY the snake can only get sick by eating a Rat that has parasites or eaten rat poison. Also, that a room full of rats with an RI will not get the snakes or MICE sick with RI because of the fact that snakes and mice have different immune systems and the RI that rats get do not do anything to snakes or mice.

Any truth to this???
The vet assured me that the rats are fine for reptiles. He is taking some for his snakes.

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9 days of Duramycin in the water(I just treated the entire rack of breeders, 10 bins) and 10 days of the dual antibiotics(Baytril/Doxy) in yogurt, then in applesauce and I've lost about 5-6 adult rats total.

I've had several litters born, weaned off two big litters. The rats that died were all from the breeder group I bought originally. Poor condition to begin with, maybe?

AND... the original rat at death's door that went to the vet and all but died getting an Xray taken... doing fine. Whatcha gonna do? Sometimes they're just tough buggers.

I am dealing with our only pet rat who is sick and I found the dosing recommendations for Tylan as that is the easiest antibiotic to get. I will post the original and then the non medical terminology one.
http://ratguide.com/meds/antimicrobi...ts/tylosin.php

4.5 mg/lb , PO, SQ, IM , BID (as recommended on RMCA Drug Chart)
4.5 mg/lb , Oral, Subcutaneous, Intramuscular, Twice Daily

or

10 mg/kg , PO , SQ, IM, q24hrs
10mg/kg , Oral, Subcutaneous, Intramuscular, Once every 24 hours (Once daily)

or

Tylan injectable 4.5 mg/lb BID (can be mixed in liquid or food and given PO)
4.5 mg/lb Twice Daily

or

Tylan Soluble 1/8 to 1/4 tsp. in 1 c. drinking water mixed fresh every 3 days

or

1/64 tsp. in food BID
Twice daily

Safe for use in pregnant does and rats under 4 months.


If mixing in water change every three days and remove moist foods from diet to encourage drinking.

This site allows you to calculate the Tylan dose in the drop down toolbar menu. It only calculates for ONCE DAILY so if you want to dose TWICE DAILY you need to cut the dose in half.

http://homepage.mac.com/mattocks/morfz/rx/drugcalc.html

There is also conversions and terminology on that same page! So glad I found it.

Too many pages to read up though all the posts.

But when Myco shows up dont FREAK OUT. its not contagious unless its let get out of control.

When you notice a lot of sneezing,red fluid and wet noises, give them Tylan ASAP and clean the tubs/tanks EVERY 3 days and disinfect the cage with a cleaner like Chlorohexidine. DOnt use bleach as its too strong and will irritate their lungs.

I already do this on a weekly basis. I clean tubs every 3 days and disinfect every 6 days.

We weren't. And we already talked about disinfecting. I wipe down my tubs every cleaning 1x week.

This was mostly about what meds were prescribed and what is working/not working and dosing amounts.

I know a lot on this page may be a little redundant but I was able to refer back to it for medicine names and dosing amounts. Good little thread we have hear. :D

Ok, the calculation for Tylan is calculated for twice daily, sorry. No need to split the dose.

Also, I picked up some Ensure, and although is is pretty gross to me, my sick rat loves it and has gained weight with it.

I used the Tylan 200 from TSC and mixed 3ml with a gallon of water.

Quick update: 100% fine. Breeding continues, big litters, babies are healthy.

I used the duramycin on some and the doxy/baytril on some. Both groups recovered, with the exceptions of about 7-8 rats, almost evenly split between the two groups.

THe duramycin was MUCH easier to dose, with the water bottles, as opposed to the "by weight" mixed in applesauce(since it said no milk products) given to each rat for the doxy/baytril.

I mixed the teaspoon/8oz into small water bottles. The rats seemed to drink slightly less than normal(assuming it doesn't taste good). No other effects were seen by me, during treatment or after.

All the rats that died were of the original breeding group I bought(32 total bought, about 10 have died since I got those, 7-8 died in the RI outbreak). I don't think I lost any of the younger rats, nor lost pinkies or weanlings in litters even in bins with sick adult rats.

I think that I would use the duramycin again, for $5 the price difference is huge(about $100 for the doxy/baytril combo) and the ease of dosing is also huge.

Granted, I couldn't be certain the rats given the doxy/baytril combos actually got their full dosing. I couldn't seperate rats into individual eating bins to dose, so I did the best I could. Also, some rats were almost force-administered the doxy/baytril, which no doubt contributed to their stress levels.

Hopefully the RI stuff is over and everyone will be okay now. That was no fun for me or the rats!