This is getting RIDICULOUS! Lesser pastel for $400 shipped?!

At the start of this season I would say the average asking price for a lesser pastel was $800 and stayed around there until I noticed someone posting a Lesserpastel for $450 since then.I noticed a drastic decrease in the average market price of Lesserpastels. This is because everyone wants to be competitive and have some of the lowest prices around. This is just killing it for everyone so where do we draw the line? I know we all do this because we have a.passion for these animals and not to get rich but I don't want to be the winner of the who can sell the first $50 carmelglow race because honestly in that race everyone loses...

So now it takes me to this "What can be done?" I know that the price will fluctuate due to supply and demand but one persons greed or desperation can dramatically alter the market so how do we stop it? This is an honest question here and I'm sure there's people on here who feel my pain. I have a Lesser Pastel who I feel is a stellar example and would love to sell but I don'twant to further damage the market and don't have a webpage. So what do you do in this situation?(End rant)

What can you do? Nothing.

When you're selling your Lesser Pastels just ask what you feel they're worth. If you feel yours are worth $800 then ask that, not everyone is looking for the cheapest snake they can find.

What makes you certain that price is brought on by greed and desperation?

As a fairly new breeder, I can say that market price and posted price are quite different things. Now, that quoted price is low, but is probably posted by someone who knows market price by going to shows. Yes, this is the problem, as now people will negotiate down. If the animal is still available after like 2 minutes, well then it is a fair market price.

Sorta how capitalism works, hmmm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AaronP

What can you do? Nothing.

When you're selling your Lesser Pastels just ask what you feel they're worth. If you feel yours are worth $800 then ask that, not everyone is looking for the cheapest snake they can find.

---

I agree with AaronP. I would set your asking price. But if you are willing to negotiate, I like the "OBRO" option. (Reasonable being the key word here) Then you and the buyer can agree on a price that you feel is right for the both of you.

Supply and demand. It is what it is. there is no way to control the market and attempts to do so end on the shady side of the law especially in the US (if I remember my american legal system correctly I am a Canadian so I m a bit sketchy on it) but I believe price fixing is at best questionable legally. Not that it matters as there are so many people in the business you would never get them all together anyway.

As my breeder always says last years babies go on sale before this years arrive. The economy is battered and people just are not sending the same way, prices will reflect that sometimes it takes time for reality to open eyes to that fact.

Really...
:twisted:

I've got an idea...
Why don't you purchase every animal that you perceive to be under priced, and then resell it for what you feel is the proper market value.

That way, you can save the Ball Python market, and make a ton of money while you're at it.
:rolleyes:

I just checked, most are still 750 to 850. Just cause one knucklehead has no pride in what they produce doesn't mean you should do the same. Also, just bc you see one advertised like that doesn't mean everyone is doing it. Look at that picture of the $400 pastel lesser compared to some of the other eye poppers. Like others have said, price your animals at the value you believe they are worth.

I see female pastels all the time for $100 or less, I wouldn't ever invest in one of those. I would much rather purchase a $400 pastel that will retain it's quality than one that will look normal as an adult. When people buy for price over quality it shows with the animals they produce.

IMO i believe in NOT perpetuating the cycle. If you think your animal is worth the $750-800 range then it will sell itself. But letting one or two people change what you know the animal to be worth would do just that.

[QUOTE=eel588;1689891]I would much rather purchase a $400 pastel that will retain it's quality than one that will look normal as an adult./QUOTE]

I agree completely.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PweEzy

Just cause one knucklehead has no pride in what they produce doesn't mean you should do the same.

---

Who says that person doesn't have pride in the animal they produced just because they're selling it for less than what the market is currently at?

If I personally had an awful hardship come over me and I had to sell off my collection because there was no other way to get around it (needed quick $$$ or whatnot), I would probably drop my prices too if I was in desperate need to do so.

I've seen many ads where people are selling off nice animals for less because they need to, not because they want to.

They could be niave about the current market as well.

If you feel that the $400. Pastel Lesser is low quality, then why are you complaining about the price of the animal being too low, and accusing the seller of being desperate and greedy ?

Should he price his low quality animal for the same $850. that others are asking for their eye popping Pastel Lessers ?

If it's as ugly as y'all make it sound, maybe he should just cull it.
:rolleyes:

you think the guy was a knucklehead for selling cheap? I can remember going to an Indy show some years back with 70 tiger retics. I was there 3 hours and sold out! I beat the competition by 150$ a snake and sold em out. Was I a knucklehead? I think not. I didn't want to feed them another month and didn't have the room. But came home with 14 grand in 3 hrs. With 500$ invested in two gravid females. Yea I'll be the knucklehead.hehe
jusdt my 2 cents

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by grizzlybear

you think the guy was a knucklehead for selling cheap? I can remember going to an Indy show some years back with 70 tiger retics. I was there 3 hours and sold out! I beat the competition by 150$ a snake and sold em out. Was I a knucklehead? I think not. I didn't want to feed them another month and didn't have the room. But came home with 14 grand in 3 hrs. With 500$ invested in two gravid females. Yea I'll be the knucklehead.hehe
jusdt my 2 cents

---

This is the kind of attitude that hurts the market. If people started matching (or beating) your price you could very well see the price of your animals plummet. Sure, it's nice to make some fast money, but you're hurting your own investment by lowering the prices so much.

To the OP, I paid $800 for my pastel butter, because he was worth every dime. I saw a lot of $500 pastel lesser/butters that didn't fit the bill, and skipped over them. People will spend the extra money if your animal is worth the price. :)

My avatar is a lesser pastel that's on kingsnake for 325$ shipped. Good looking snake . I have beautiful snakes that I've bought for a 100$ and produced awesome babies. A knucklehead is the guy that travels to shows for months trying to make a buck and has same snake with him. What ya got in a hatchling? .75-1.00 in food before you sell? I'm getting ready to purchase 8 bumblebees for 275$ a piece and they are some of the best I've seen. Some people like to get rid of the babies and some like to raise them.

Personally I think it's a little ridiculous the way people talk sellers down when they sell animals under market value. For starters its your animal and you can sell it for whatever you want. That being said I have cut prices before simply because I was tired of feeding the animal or I needed the rack space or I had another project I needed to fund. It's business and I think the true effect on the hobby is minimal at best. But I promise you, if I have 15 bees in my rack and can't sell them at 350.00 they will be going out the door for a lower price. It's the same thing that any store does with merchandise that doesnt sell and it's not too likely that I'm going to feed an animal an extra 6 months just so I can keep it at a set price and not offend the reptile community.

Being most of us are hobby breeder it should not matter what one sells there babies. If it bothers you that much i would say you sound greedy and that your not a hobby breeder and that your in it for the money.

the prices are always changing which sucks as most the time they go down.
I watch albino prices drope like a rock. I still sitting on my hets from this year.

I been in some tight money issues too (with taking in the 7 rescues that eat likt my 20 other snakes combine )
I toyed wit hthe idea of putting my proven albino and het ( female) up for a grand or so so I can turn around slove several issues we got in the house. ( moslty vechile realted. )

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jmitch

Being most of us are hobby breeder it should not matter what one sells there babies. If it bothers you that much i would say you sound greedy and that your not a hobby breeder and that your in it for the money.

---

Just because we care what's happening to the market doesn't make us greedy and doesn't mean we are in it for the money. Even if you are a hobby breeder, most of us like to sell some babies every season to help pay for the costs of maintaining a collection of snakes. When prices go down, you earn less, meaning you may not make enough to cover your feeding bill, or you may not make enough to go out and buy that nice morph you like.

prices will always be less at the end of the season. there is more supply than demand. prices will drop as supply increases. i bought an albino male 2 years ago for 300 dollars online and it was one of the best high contrast albino i ever seen. at our local show in april of this year there was pastel lessers for 300. and they were so faded they looked like super pastel lessers.
price and quality dont go hand in hand as much as people try and make it out to be. it actually makes me mad when im looking through the classifieds and see people asking outrageous amounts for low quality animals just because "they " think they are worth it. you can get great quality for cheap and low quality for high prices.
big breeders charge more because they have more expenses. i know i dont have a 20,000 sq ft building to heat, or 10,000 snakes to feed. no retail store to operate or employees to pay. no taxes, unemployment or benefits to pay. they dont charge more because they have higher quality, they charge more to stay afloat.
adam jeffery

Before too long, people will realize.... a ball python is a ball python. And everything will be priced the same, and everyone can choose the snake they like, not what they think will make them money, because nothing will.

How long ago was it, when a bumblebee was the be all and end all greatest thing ever? Now one can be had for $200. Your dreamsicles are headed in that direction. Be patient.

Chris

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eel588

I see female pastels all the time for $100 or less, I wouldn't ever invest in one of those. I would much rather purchase a $400 pastel that will retain it's quality than one that will look normal as an adult. When people buy for price over quality it shows with the animals they produce.

---

Price determines quality? Hmmm.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wh00h0069

Price determines quality? Hmmm.

---

Why of course!! I have a 25K Bumblebee if you're interested...

Chris

Pastel Lesser males are being advertised with prices ranging from $350. to $550.
They are worth more in my opinion, ($650. - $850.) but apparently not according to the "market value."

I first posted my male PL for $550. plus shipping, and did not get any responses.
So, I added a "bonus" offer of a free female Cinnamon.
Still no interest, and another member added a female Cinnamon to go along with her PL male, and beat my price.

Several other Pastel Lessers were priced below my $550. asking price, so I adjusted mine to $500. shipped.
Still, not one cash offer.

I decided to pull the female Cinnamon from the ad, and dropped the price of the male PL to $450. shipped.
Finally, I got a cash offer... a whopping $375. shipped.
I counter offered with $400. shipped, (which was what I had in mind as a rock bottom cash price,) and it was rejected.

Now, before I accept what I consider(ed) to be a low ball offer, or keep every animal that I feel is undervalued on the market, I figured I would go ahead and advertise him at $400. shipped.
If somebody purchases him at $400. shipped, then maybe the OP will not hold out on that last $25. in the future, after missing out on such a great deal on a beautiful animal.
If not, then I guess $375. shipped is the current market price on a male Pastel Lesser, and was not as insulting of an offer as I thought it was.

The low cash offer was not as insulting as y'all attacking the quality of my animals, or claiming that I take no pride in what I produce was, simply because you feel that my price is too low.

The animals in my collection were selectively acquired, and are selectively bred.
I believe that I produced some of the best representations of the animals that I am working with, and I held back 42 of the 49 animals that I hatched out this season.

Like it or not, I am competing on the open market for a couple of cash sales, because unfortunately, my rodent supplier does not accept "my Pride in the animals that I produce" as a form of payment on feeders.

Take Care,
-Rob.

This discussion has been hashed over a hundred different times. There are people on both sides of the fence as far as pricing in concerned. I for one can see both sides of the arguement, however, in this case in particular I did a little research as I am in fact looking for a lesser something to add to my collection.

I do not think the snakes this man is selling are poor quality. Actually they look a lot better than some of the snakes I have seen for higher prices. His BOI on Fauna is all good reviews, so he doesn't have a bad reputation in that regard. If it is a quality animal he's selling at a price he believes is fair, then so be it.

He may be doing so because he's getting ready for new hatchies, maybe he had 30 pastel lessers, there are many reasons a person might reduce pricing... everyone seems so quick to jump on the bandwagon to wave their pitch forks at people that sell for less than market value. I think if they ever found themselves in a situation where they needed to move some snakes or earn some money quickly, they might not be so quick to judge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by adamjeffery

at our local show in april of this year there was pastel lessers for 300. and they were so faded they looked like super pastel lessers.

adam jeffery

---

should have read 500

Price someone is asking doesnt always mean greed, or trying to crash the market, or lack of visual quality, etc. It could mean they need money quick. When the online market is slow some drop prices to move an animal. You got to understand if there is one guy with 3 animals at that price then that means 3 people are gonna get a steal. It doesnt mean the market is crashing. Another thing you have to realize is that you are talking about a double codom morph. One that is easy to produce and one that a ton of people are working with and producing, therefore the market will not stay real strong for long on them. And to those that have the theory that just cause its a lower price means lack of quality cannot make that claim. You will never be able to tell with any pastel or with any baby on how its gonna fade as it gets older. I have seen some of the highest of "quality" animals fade bad as they age and i have seen some drab looking babies grow into smokin adults. Heres a scenario, you buy a top shelf best of the best pastel from one of the top breeders, you then breed it to a normal, this is gonna wash out the pastel. Or lets say you put that animal to another morph and you do the same thing. The ball python market is a race to produce. I dont think questioning ones integrity is the right thing to be doing. If you care so much about the highest quality possible then you have to buy only top shelf stuff at usually a premium and selectively breed to other top shelf stuff. If you do this then it sets you back years and by the time you produce your top shelf smokers the individual market on that animal will be a fraction of what it was when you embarked on that project.

Im gonna throw a name out there, a guy who i think produces some of the highest quality pastels and pastel combos anywhere. Mark petros. His pastels are in my oppinion the best there is. Hes been producing smokers for years. Now he has done so much work to produce such animals but now the pastel market is so low and flooded that this why the prices are what they are. But guess what? This doesnt mean you as the buyer has to pay top price anymore for top quality animals. It is what it is. The market on every morph is gonna drop as the supply increases on such morphs. So with that said if you want to be on top of the game then you have to buy big and sell at the right time. The ball market is alot like the stock market. You have to watch market trends and speculate on future trends. Otherwise youll just be left behind. Now i understand those that will say i breed cause i love my animals and so on. I get that but this is also a big industry where its a buisness and without it being this way their would be no viable market thetefore there would be no industry.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wh00h0069

Price determines quality? Hmmm.

---

I paid 14k in 2002 for a spider male. Wonder what i could sell him for now? Hmm goin price is about 100 bucks on a breeder spider male now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RhacHead

So now it takes me to this "What can be done?"

---

There are two things that you can personally do to help the situation. The more people that join in, the bigger the impact:

1) If you see a lesser pastel that you think is unfairly priced, snatch it up immediately yourself. If you're not pouring your own money into buying snakes from other breeders yourself, then you're doing nothing to help keep prices up.

2) Stop breeding your snakes, you're only increasing supply.

Sorry to sound a little cynical, but that's how this hobby works. The problem with the money-making aspect of this is that to make money, you want to spend as little on buying new snakes as you can and produce as many high dollar snakes (and then sell them) as you can. This is a perfect storm for radically crashing prices for any given morph.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mumps

Before too long, people will realize.... a ball python is a ball python.

---

Yup! Nothing wrong with that either.

I don't really worry about what other people are selling their stuff for. If they feel the need to race to the bottom let them.. I'll produce a few Pastel lessers and keep them to make other cool stuff or sell the few I do make for the current market price then invest in a more stable animal like something recessive..

I remember when Lesser's and Mojo's took the big nose dive everybody freaked, the world was over the market is ruined, :rage::rage:, BLAAAAAA, then we realized hey there is still a market for Lessers, and mojo's. Yea it sucked yea it kicked allot of people in the sensitive area of their being aka wallet. In the end the business people Overcame, improvised and adapted and are still here.

If you don't like what people are selling pastel lessers for you have two options; 1: don't breed for pastel lesser's thinking you're going to make your house note on one combo or 2: keep the ones you do make grow them for a year or two and double the price..

Just my two cent's,

P.S. there are still loads of combo's out there getting good prices. I see other combos that I see the prices and go well sucks wont be producing those, because I can't afford to spend 1500.00 on a mojo female and see the supers go for 500.00 - 1000.00 and to be honest with the average 75.00 price of a Pastel and the average price of a female lesser being 200.00 I'd say getting 450.00 for a 275.00 investment isn't to bad..and that's if you only produce one.

But then again cost an worth are two different things, I produced 0.2 bee's this year and didn't sell them. Why because in two year's it'll be worth more to me to have 4-5 breeder bee's in a couple of years then it would to sell them for 350.00 or what ever they are now.

Just my two cents..

Supply vs. Demand.

/thread

When you list your animals do not include a price. That way other people can't see what you are doing and the market will not be affected as much. Determine the price with the customer in private if you plan on killing the price that much. (Not that I would drastically undersell my animals)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

If you don't like what people are selling pastel lessers for you have two options; 1: don't breed for pastel lesser's thinking you're going to make your house note on one combo or 2: keep the ones you do make grow them for a year or two and double the price..

---

This.

This market is kind of amazing to me in that people seem to think that if you can't make 3-4x your investment back on the first breeding, that the market is crashing and the sky is falling and ZOMG, these stupid snakes are worthless!

Well, three things. One, they kinda are worthless, in a manner of speaking; their inherent worth is dependent solely on us, the "snake people." I mean, when you get down to it, you can't eat them, you can't ride them, and you can't even take one for a walk to the park. (Well, I guess you could take one to the park, but most people don't generally do that with their morph ball python collection.) These snakes are, by and large, pretty little living trinkets; we provide them with warmth, shelter, water, food and security, and they repay us by bring pretty. Sometimes, if they are in a cooperative mood, they sit still for a camera so that we can show off how pretty they are.

So, my point there is twofold; one, there is no "bottom line" price for ball pythons like there is for, say, a cow. I can't look up the "price of snake" like the price of beef to determine the bear minimum that I ought to get for a snake. It's only worth what we all, the snake folks, say it's worth, and if the supply that we create outstrips the demand that we create, as others have said, that's when prices have to drop. And two, really, we should kinda be thankful that we can sell these guys at all, since really they are just a pretty little speculative market pet. Most of us are doing better than alpaca breeders, from what I've seen, and our animals don't even make nice socks!!

Two more points and then I'll shut up -- one, what we lack is a base market. The vast majority of chinchillas I sell go to pet owners and those babies will never be bred. The vast majority of snakes I sell go to others with aspirations of breeding. Whether they'll really get bred or not is a totally different story -- but nearly every snake I sell, I'm selling to potential competition. We have very few "end users" supporting this industry, which is a setup for failure.

Despite that, however, we are doing shockingly well. The most I've "overpaid" for a ball relative to its market value is my male bumblebee. I paid $900 for him a few years ago, because he would breed that very year and I wanted to breed ASAP. Well, he didn't quite make his money back that year and I felt burned ... Which is completely stupid. He isn't dead. He didn't get a one-shot deal. He's already bred many girls this year, and even if male bees drop to a buck fifty a pop, that will only take six bees to totally pay for himself. He may well do that this year, or next year; one way or the other, I do think he'll pay for himself. Just may take a little more time.

... We're selling an inherently "useless" product, one whose value only we can see, appreciate and create. We have virtually no bottom tier, "end user" market and are, essentially, selling within our own circle only, to our own competition. The majority of us are hobbyists who are doing this only because we love said "useless product," are fascinated by these creatures and enjoy their upkeep and reproduction, and appreciate their presence in our homes -- in other words, we aren't businessmen. And yet, with perseverance, patience and time I think any one of us could probably make our investment back. In that regard, I think we're doing pretty darn well.

........It is what it is.........

i agree that the market is being played I personally like it just because i'm getting started and the low prices help ME but when i have bred my dream animals and i have some to sell the low pricing will hurt me as well it's what we used to call "wal-marting" u see someone with one for $700 u adjust down to $650 then some jerk comes in and wal-marts his for $350 just to get rid of it and make some money

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atherosdragon

i agree that the market is being played I personally like it just because i'm getting started and the low prices help ME but when i have bred my dream animals and i have some to sell the low pricing will hurt me as well it's what we used to call "wal-marting" u see someone with one for $700 u adjust down to $650 then some jerk comes in and wal-marts his for $350 just to get rid of it and make some money

---

Well, right. And as if I haven't already blabbed enough on this thread, I think this raises another good point: the lower the prices go, the more people will be able to get into ball python morphs, and the more the market expands.

I know I didn't get into these guys until the average prices came down into the $100's instead of the $1000's, and I've been coveting some ball python morphs for over almost two decades now. :O

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dave Green

........It is what it is.........

---

I can agree to this... I plan on making pastel lessers this year, and ultimately if I can make an awesome looking hatching to upgrade a piece of my collection, I had a successful breeding season.

As far as my knucklehead comment... Charles Barkley calls about everyone a knucklehead so it was the cornyist harmless thing I could think of. Just have fun with the hobby and have pride in what you create. If the cash is that big a deal, just make sure you are producing the eye grabbing snakes and you shouldn't have to worry about it....right?

Grizzlybear that pastel lesser is actually $425 plus shipping. I should know it's my snake. I still own and not sure why my pic is being used?

I still see plenty going for 600-800. you cant really judge a market price by what one animal is selling at, thats the sellers choice. There are many reasons that a seller may put a particular price on a specific animal,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eel588

I see female pastels all the time for $100 or less, I wouldn't ever invest in one of those. I would much rather purchase a $400 pastel that will retain it's quality than one that will look normal as an adult. When people buy for price over quality it shows with the animals they produce.

---

Don't-know-diddly question time:

About when does a Pastel start to 'brown out' if they're going to?

I have a 2 year old male who's still quite bright yellow.
[his litter mates included Supers]

I'm assuming he qualifies as an adult so will his color hold or do more years go by before he changes?

When buying a Pastel baby, what does one look for, as far as future color retention?

Thanks!

my pastel browned out in a year and his brother still looks great so i'm not to sure on that either Salamander

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atherosdragon

my pastel browned out in a year and his brother still looks great so i'm not to sure on that either Salamander

---

Thanks for answering.
I appreciate it very much...:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Salamander

Don't-know-diddly question time:

About when does a Pastel start to 'brown out' if they're going to?

I have a 2 year old male who's still quite bright yellow.
[his litter mates included Supers]

I'm assuming he qualifies as an adult so will his color hold or do more years go by before he changes?

When buying a Pastel baby, what does one look for, as far as future color retention?

Thanks!

---

It really all seems to depend on the animal. If yours is two years old and still remains a nice quality yellow I would be very happy if I were you.

I should also rephrase my first response to this thread. I myself have bought some of my ideal morphs for prices WAY below "market price", I mean WAY below. I've also spent more than the average price for some that I found were more than worth a little extra money.

What I was trying to say was put quality over price and you will always win. Why not spend a little extra money or time to find your perfect morph? Don't let price dictate your decision. A new snake can wait, you might as well spend the time, money, and effort that fits within your means to obtain the morph that fits all of your expectations, what ever that is.

Just like anything else in life, it's only worth what someone will pay for it! I can have a hockey card valued at $10000 but if the best price I can get is $5000 then that is what it is truely worth! Now if someone comes by at the exact same time as I am selling it and they have been looking and really want it then I may get $15000 for it! Snakes work the same way!

Thanks for the reply guys. Regardless if you agree with me,totally disagree or sit somewhere in the middle its nice to see where people stand and get their opinions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AaronP

What can you do? Nothing.

When you're selling your Lesser Pastels just ask what you feel they're worth. If you feel yours are worth $800 then ask that, not everyone is looking for the cheapest snake they can find.

---

yes I know there is nothing (or at least very little I can do) but one can hope a genius Idea comes up.As for pricing not everyone is looking for the cheapest snake I know. I'm a believer of quality over quantity and paid over market value for almost all my snakes but they are all great examples and worth every penny.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wilomn

What makes you certain that price is brought on by greed and desperation?

---

Well people come upon hard times and sell cheap to make a quick buck so I would call that desperation. If you take the market price and cut it in half to make a quick sale but dramatically alter the market by doing so then I would call that greedy. Just my 2¢

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hip

IMO i believe in NOT perpetuating the cycle. If you think your animal is worth the $750-800 range then it will sell itself. But letting one or two people change what you know the animal to be worth would do just that.

---

Best advice on this whole thread. Thanks for that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by grizzlybear

you think the guy was a knucklehead for selling cheap? I can remember going to an Indy show some years back with 70 tiger retics. I was there 3 hours and sold out! I beat the competition by 150$ a snake and sold em out. Was I a knucklehead? I think not. I didn't want to feed them another month and didn't have the room. But came home with 14 grand in 3 hrs. With 500$ invested in two gravid females. Yea I'll be the knucklehead.hehe
jusdt my 2 cents

---

Exactly the mentality that is kills the market. No one is in this hobby to get rich(if you are your in for a rude awakening) but its nice when it can be self sustaining. If everyone drops their price $150 to beat out the competition before you know it the sale doesn't cover moms food bill for last year.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jmitch

Being most of us are hobby breeder it should not matter what one sells there babies. If it bothers you that much i would say you sound greedy and that your not a hobby breeder and that your in it for the money.

---

Well I could understand why you would say that but I assure you I'm a hobby breeder I'mjust a guy with a few racks in a spare bedroom. Keep in mind we are all invested in this hobby either financially,emotionally,invested in time or a combination of all three. When you are invested in anything it feels good to have a nice return on your investment but its hard to do that when some" knucklehead" is messing that up!

So, what you're saying OP, is that in YOUR opinion people need YOUR opinion to favor THEIR reasons for selling in order for THEM to not be some sort of scumbag price droppers?

Business is business and if someone, take that butthole joe capone for instance, wants to produce a bunch of something and then blow them out for half of what the "GOOD" guys are selling for, meaning you and everyone else that WANTS TO MAKE MONEY at this, then there is something wrong with that?

It may suck for YOU and your pals, but ol butthole joe made a buttpile of money and he DOESN'T HAVE TO CARE ABOUT YOU or your prices or your thoughts about his prices.

It's business. Sell, make profit, do it again. Got competitors complaining? Got people talking about you? Sell, make profit, do it again.

If it really bothers you so much do as has been recommended and buy them yourself and resell them for what you think they should go for. That was you can keep prices high.

Oh wait, is price fixing OK with you? Because you see, to me, it's sort of a suckass way to do things, exactly like ol butthole joe. Sort of like having a stick with two poopy ends, no matter what, you've got poo on you.

Why not just let people do what they want while they let you do what you want and let your reputation speak for itself?

(to be clear on one thing, when I capitalize words I'm not yelling, just adding emphasis in a medium in which it is difficult to convey)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RhacHead

Well I could understand why you would say that but I assure you I'm a hobby breeder I'mjust a guy with a few racks in a spare bedroom. Keep in mind we are all invested in this hobby either financially,emotionally,invested in time or a combination of all three. When you are invested in anything it feels good to have a nice return on your investment but its hard to do that when some" knucklehead" is messing that up!

---

I hate to point this out but snakes are not an investment. look at spiders that people paid 10000 for, not an investment. It is like saying I am going to invest money in a computer and expect to get it back after 3 years. Snakes do not increase value or even hold their value if you see it as an investment time to cut your losses. Few hobby breeders make money most if they are lucky cover their expenses, and not much more. The most successful breeder in my area (producing about 200-300 babies a year) used to joke that after 5 years he could pull a wage out... 5¢ an hour.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kitedemon

I hate to point this out but snakes are not an investment. look at spiders that people paid 10000 for, not an investment. It is like saying I am going to invest money in a computer and expect to get it back after 3 years. Snakes do not increase value or even hold their value if you see it as an investment time to cut your losses. Few hobby breeders make money most if they are lucky cover their expenses, and not much more. The most successful breeder in my area (producing about 200-300 babies a year) used to joke that after 5 years he could pull a wage out... 5¢ an hour.

---

Those people who spent $10,000 for a spider most likely made their money back before the prices dropped. Investing $200 in a spider now isn't likely going to make you any money back, but if you invest $5k in a high quality male that you have females ready for, it's very likely that you'll make that money back and then some.

Spend a couple grand on some low end snakes and you'll be lucky to make your money back. Spend $50-100 grand on a good collection of high end snakes and you'd have to have the worse luck in the world to not break even. :)