This is getting RIDICULOUS! Lesser pastel for $400 shipped?!

[adamjeffery]

prices will always be less at the end of the season. there is more supply than demand. prices will drop as supply increases. i bought an albino male 2 years ago for 300 dollars online and it was one of the best high contrast albino i ever seen. at our local show in april of this year there was pastel lessers for 300. and they were so faded they looked like super pastel lessers.
price and quality dont go hand in hand as much as people try and make it out to be. it actually makes me mad when im looking through the classifieds and see people asking outrageous amounts for low quality animals just because "they " think they are worth it. you can get great quality for cheap and low quality for high prices.
big breeders charge more because they have more expenses. i know i dont have a 20,000 sq ft building to heat, or 10,000 snakes to feed. no retail store to operate or employees to pay. no taxes, unemployment or benefits to pay. they dont charge more because they have higher quality, they charge more to stay afloat.
adam jeffery

[mumps]

Before too long, people will realize.... a ball python is a ball python. And everything will be priced the same, and everyone can choose the snake they like, not what they think will make them money, because nothing will.

How long ago was it, when a bumblebee was the be all and end all greatest thing ever? Now one can be had for $200. Your dreamsicles are headed in that direction. Be patient.

Chris

[Wh00h0069]

I see female pastels all the time for $100 or less, I wouldn't ever invest in one of those. I would much rather purchase a $400 pastel that will retain it's quality than one that will look normal as an adult. When people buy for price over quality it shows with the animals they produce.

Price determines quality? Hmmm.

[mumps]

Price determines quality? Hmmm.

Why of course!! I have a 25K Bumblebee if you're interested...

Chris

[rjk890]

Pastel Lesser males are being advertised with prices ranging from $350. to $550.
They are worth more in my opinion, ($650. - $850.) but apparently not according to the "market value."

I first posted my male PL for $550. plus shipping, and did not get any responses.
So, I added a "bonus" offer of a free female Cinnamon.
Still no interest, and another member added a female Cinnamon to go along with her PL male, and beat my price.

Several other Pastel Lessers were priced below my $550. asking price, so I adjusted mine to $500. shipped.
Still, not one cash offer.

I decided to pull the female Cinnamon from the ad, and dropped the price of the male PL to $450. shipped.
Finally, I got a cash offer... a whopping $375. shipped.
I counter offered with $400. shipped, (which was what I had in mind as a rock bottom cash price,) and it was rejected.

Now, before I accept what I consider(ed) to be a low ball offer, or keep every animal that I feel is undervalued on the market, I figured I would go ahead and advertise him at $400. shipped.
If somebody purchases him at $400. shipped, then maybe the OP will not hold out on that last $25. in the future, after missing out on such a great deal on a beautiful animal.
If not, then I guess $375. shipped is the current market price on a male Pastel Lesser, and was not as insulting of an offer as I thought it was.

The low cash offer was not as insulting as y'all attacking the quality of my animals, or claiming that I take no pride in what I produce was, simply because you feel that my price is too low.

The animals in my collection were selectively acquired, and are selectively bred.
I believe that I produced some of the best representations of the animals that I am working with, and I held back 42 of the 49 animals that I hatched out this season.

Like it or not, I am competing on the open market for a couple of cash sales, because unfortunately, my rodent supplier does not accept "my Pride in the animals that I produce" as a form of payment on feeders.

Take Care,
-Rob.

[Crawly's Mom]

This discussion has been hashed over a hundred different times. There are people on both sides of the fence as far as pricing in concerned. I for one can see both sides of the arguement, however, in this case in particular I did a little research as I am in fact looking for a lesser something to add to my collection.

I do not think the snakes this man is selling are poor quality. Actually they look a lot better than some of the snakes I have seen for higher prices. His BOI on Fauna is all good reviews, so he doesn't have a bad reputation in that regard. If it is a quality animal he's selling at a price he believes is fair, then so be it.

He may be doing so because he's getting ready for new hatchies, maybe he had 30 pastel lessers, there are many reasons a person might reduce pricing... everyone seems so quick to jump on the bandwagon to wave their pitch forks at people that sell for less than market value. I think if they ever found themselves in a situation where they needed to move some snakes or earn some money quickly, they might not be so quick to judge.

[adamjeffery]

at our local show in april of this year there was pastel lessers for 300. and they were so faded they looked like super pastel lessers.

adam jeffery

should have read 500

[snake lab]

Price someone is asking doesnt always mean greed, or trying to crash the market, or lack of visual quality, etc. It could mean they need money quick. When the online market is slow some drop prices to move an animal. You got to understand if there is one guy with 3 animals at that price then that means 3 people are gonna get a steal. It doesnt mean the market is crashing. Another thing you have to realize is that you are talking about a double codom morph. One that is easy to produce and one that a ton of people are working with and producing, therefore the market will not stay real strong for long on them. And to those that have the theory that just cause its a lower price means lack of quality cannot make that claim. You will never be able to tell with any pastel or with any baby on how its gonna fade as it gets older. I have seen some of the highest of "quality" animals fade bad as they age and i have seen some drab looking babies grow into smokin adults. Heres a scenario, you buy a top shelf best of the best pastel from one of the top breeders, you then breed it to a normal, this is gonna wash out the pastel. Or lets say you put that animal to another morph and you do the same thing. The ball python market is a race to produce. I dont think questioning ones integrity is the right thing to be doing. If you care so much about the highest quality possible then you have to buy only top shelf stuff at usually a premium and selectively breed to other top shelf stuff. If you do this then it sets you back years and by the time you produce your top shelf smokers the individual market on that animal will be a fraction of what it was when you embarked on that project.

Im gonna throw a name out there, a guy who i think produces some of the highest quality pastels and pastel combos anywhere. Mark petros. His pastels are in my oppinion the best there is. Hes been producing smokers for years. Now he has done so much work to produce such animals but now the pastel market is so low and flooded that this why the prices are what they are. But guess what? This doesnt mean you as the buyer has to pay top price anymore for top quality animals. It is what it is. The market on every morph is gonna drop as the supply increases on such morphs. So with that said if you want to be on top of the game then you have to buy big and sell at the right time. The ball market is alot like the stock market. You have to watch market trends and speculate on future trends. Otherwise youll just be left behind. Now i understand those that will say i breed cause i love my animals and so on. I get that but this is also a big industry where its a buisness and without it being this way their would be no viable market thetefore there would be no industry.

[snake lab]

Price determines quality? Hmmm.

I paid 14k in 2002 for a spider male. Wonder what i could sell him for now? Hmm goin price is about 100 bucks on a breeder spider male now.

[mainbutter]

So now it takes me to this "What can be done?"

There are two things that you can personally do to help the situation. The more people that join in, the bigger the impact:

1) If you see a lesser pastel that you think is unfairly priced, snatch it up immediately yourself. If you're not pouring your own money into buying snakes from other breeders yourself, then you're doing nothing to help keep prices up.

2) Stop breeding your snakes, you're only increasing supply.

Sorry to sound a little cynical, but that's how this hobby works. The problem with the money-making aspect of this is that to make money, you want to spend as little on buying new snakes as you can and produce as many high dollar snakes (and then sell them) as you can. This is a perfect storm for radically crashing prices for any given morph.