No wonder he disabled comments on his videos

This guy has always bothered me, but seeing things like this kind of upset me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUjYZ...eature=related

:(

"What's a supernova?"

"I don't remember"



He doesn't know what he's producing?


In ball python terms.....
"What's an albino spinner?"
"I dunno..."
"Then why should I trust that you produce healthy animals?"

Wow. Doesn't know what he produced or how he arrived at it, jamming his fingers in the eggs like that...there isn't enough disinfectant in the land for me to attempt that, unless it were life or death for the hatchling. Pretty casual about what he's doing, like it's just about the potential dollar signs and less about what he produced or the health of the animals. I dunno...I won't judge on the basis of a single video but I'd be hesitant to buy from him if that's standard practice.

Jay is probably one of the top, most knowledgeable retic breeders in the world. He has produced the first of quite a few retic morphs. That said, I do hear unsavory things about him from time to time. Though him digging his fingers into the egg is really the least of my concerns; the babies are fine.

I cna't see the video from work but is this the Prehistoric Pets guy? Sounds like him. So annoying.

I can't watch the whole thing, I've seen that guys videos and it just makes me sick. You couldn't pay me to sell one of my babies to him :colbert:

I can't stand that guy either. I was going to make a post like this on one of his other videos where he teaches some girl to cut eggs, but I figured I'd get flamed by all of his supporters. I can't believe they pull the snakes out of the eggs like that. I'd never buy anything from him.

so, idk much about eggs and hatchlings and whatnot, and i sure dont have any hands on, so im not really gonna pass judgement, but arent you supposed to let the babies come out on their own, instead of shoving your alien hand in there and ripping them out?

Man, this video just gives me the shudders. While I'm not into retics, if I was I don't think I would support that business. He may be a well known breeder and produce some fine animals, but seeing him shove his fingers into those bloody eggs and pull out tails and heads just... ugh. No way. :rage: Cutting the eggs is one thing.

Also, you should probably know what you're breeding if you plan to sell it. :mad:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Salem Purrs

Man, this video just gives me the shudders. While I'm not into retics, if I was I don't think I would support that business. He may be a well known breeder and produce some fine animals, but seeing him shove his fingers into those bloody eggs and pull out tails and heads just... ugh. No way. :rage: Cutting the eggs is one thing.

Also, you should probably know what you're breeding if you plan to sell it. :mad:

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the part that bothered me the most was when he straight grabbed one by the head and ripped it out:no:

It doesn't bother me that much. The guy has cut open thousands of retic eggs....

I just would love to know how he sells THAT many retics?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Hedgehog

seeing things like this kind of upset me.


:(

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Sorry, I just don't get it... I don't know anything about the guy... but what is wrong? You don't like him cutting the eggs? You don't like him pulling the snakes out a little to see what they are?

Doesn't look like any of the snakes were hurt or anything so who cares?

I think it's probably more acceptable due to the fact that they're retics... snakes that are bulldozers when eating. They don't stress easily and seem to keep eating no matter what. They also lay huge clutches, so if one or two don't make it, you still have a lot left over.

If you were to do that with ball pythons (pulling them out/touching/messing with while in the eggs), who are notorious for getting stressed easily and going off of feed... some don't even like to eat when you haven't messed with them at all... you might see more problems.

Yes, they ARE retics and not bps in the video, but posting a video where the guy seems to show no care for the snakes, and can't even tell you what the genes are in the animals, on a website dedicated primarily to bps, where many of us are passionate about breeding for the love of the animal, and not just for $$$... we're bound to see some outlash.

I'm really confused about the responses here. He knows what he bred, he said it a couple of times. Super Nova is a name he made up and he was trying to produce it and he thinks he did. I don't agree with him sticking his hands in the eggs but then again I don't much about retics. To me it seems like he was excited about the clutch and wanted to show it off.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kinra

I'm really confused about the responses here. He knows what he bred, he said it a couple of times. Super Nova is a name he made up and he was trying to produce it and he thinks he did. I don't agree with him sticking his hands in the eggs but then again I don't much about retics. To me it seems like he was excited about the clutch and wanted to show it off.

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It's that he didn't know the ingredients to what a Super Nova is =P It would be like asking "What are the morphs in a lemonblast?" and not knowing that there is pastel and pinstripe.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Anatopism

posting a video where the guy seems to show no care for the snakes

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Think of it this way....

Go to your local hospital and visit the maternity ward. Watch how slow and delicate first time parents are when they pick up and handle their brand new babies.... Then watch the older nurses handle those same babies... Lol, even though the older nurses are handling the baby more like a football then something fragile, trust me, it doesn't mean they are not handling them correctly. They have been doing it for decades, and know exactly what they can do with confidence.

Same thing with the guy in the video quickly cutting the eggs with a razor and pulling them out a little to take a peak. No harm, no foul.

Unless its a 6 gene ball python.... you remember the video raphy recently posted? Kevin had to think about it for a bit. And maybe there aren't 6 gene retics but he breeds a lot of snakes. Who cares. You guys are so quick to judge based on so little.

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk

Just by the title I knew who the OP was talkin about XD.

Sometimes they way he treats the hatchlings makes me cringe but he seems like a good enough guy and I'm pretty sure he knows what he is doin.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

Think of it this way....

Go to your local hospital and visit the maternity ward. Watch how slow and delicate first time parents are when they pick up and handle their brand new babies.... Then watch the older nurses handle those same babies... Lol, even though the older nurses are handling the baby more like a football then something fragile, trust me, it doesn't mean they are not handling them correctly. They have been doing it for decades, and know exactly what they can do with confidence.

Same thing with the guy in the video quickly cutting the eggs with a razor and pulling them out a little to take a peak. No harm, no foul.

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Oh I have no doubt they're fine - he wouldn't be able to produce so many good looking animals if this practice did any harm to them (I've seen lots of other videos from them doing the same thing, so I know this isn't a novel situation). I'm just explaining where the backlash comes from. It's not anything I would do to a baby snake personally, because I don't want to risk harming them.

I do still think the comment about not knowing which morphs produced a 'super nova' was funny though. If I hadn't seen their other videos and have seen what their facility looks like, I certainly wouldn't trust his word on genetics of the snake. The comment made everything seem so much more haphazard. That said, I have seen the other videos/comments from these people that back up their knowledge/experience.

I'm not saying the guy shows no care for the snakes or knows nothing, simply that the video, especially to those who don't know as much about breeding or retic care, comes across that way. It appears dangerous and even if it's not, it still makes people cringe, and makes people feel uncomfortable for the snakes (in the same way that older nurses handle babies :P)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Anatopism

I think it's probably more acceptable due to the fact that they're retics... snakes that are bulldozers when eating. They don't stress easily and seem to keep eating no matter what. They also lay huge clutches, so if one or two don't make it, you still have a lot left over.

If you were to do that with ball pythons (pulling them out/touching/messing with while in the eggs), who are notorious for getting stressed easily and going off of feed... some don't even like to eat when you haven't messed with them at all... you might see more problems.

Yes, they ARE retics and not bps in the video, but posting a video where the guy seems to show no care for the snakes, and can't even tell you what the genes are in the animals, on a website dedicated primarily to bps, where many of us are passionate about breeding for the love of the animal, and not just for $$$... we're bound to see some outlash.

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He does the same thing w/ all of his eggs, INCLUDING BP's. He breeds a lot of different snakes, he just specializes in Retics.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Anatopism

It's that he didn't know the ingredients to what a Super Nova is =P It would be like asking "What are the morphs in a lemonblast?" and not knowing that there is pastel and pinstripe.

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He drew a momentary blank and he corrected himself right after. I have trouble remembering all of the ball pythons combos, giving them names that are not descriptive makes it harder. Watch the video again, he does answer the question shortly after he says he doesn't know.

Also it's one thing to remember a lemonblast is a pastel pinstripe because it is a well known morph that has been called that for a while. This was something new that he named before he produced it, it's a little different.

not to sound like a snob, but the comments im reading are all up to par with the experience of the person saying them. those with less experience that have more "internet knowledge" than hands on experience are the ones against this guy. the ones with more hands on experience know the truth on what we can do. im not saying your wrong. actually your right for your level of experience. if you have only ever had 1 breeding and 1 clutch of 4 eggs then i dont expect you to understand a video like this. but after you have hatched thousands of eggs from many different species you tend to look at things differently.
im not saying im even remotely as experienced as this guy or many on here. so im not being cocky. i just know what i do now compared to what i did when i was just starting. i have hatched out maybe 500 eggs of different species over the last 10-12 years. i have gained a lot of experience in those years. half of which isnt online or in books.
many of the things you read in preparation to start breeding/keeping/owning is all "dumbed" down a bit and skewed to a neutral position in order to make information the safest and easiest for the masses to understand and use and make it easier on the babies as well. it doesnt mean that it is the gospel. yes i would agree that its not the most sterile thing to do sticking your fingers all in the egg, but doesnt mean that you cant do it. just means you have to prepare before hand. just washing your hands is good enough.
sorry for the rant
adam jeffery

Quote:

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Originally Posted by adamjeffery

not to sound like a snob, but the comments im reading are all up to par with the experience of the person saying them. those with less experience that have more "internet knowledge" than hands on experience are the ones against this guy. the ones with more hands on experience know the truth on what we can do. im not saying your wrong. actually your right for your level of experience. if you have only ever had 1 breeding and 1 clutch of 4 eggs then i dont expect you to understand a video like this. but after you have hatched thousands of eggs from many different species you tend to look at things differently.
im not saying im even remotely as experienced as this guy or many on here. so im not being cocky. i just know what i do now compared to what i did when i was just starting. i have hatched out maybe 500 eggs of different species over the last 10-12 years. i have gained a lot of experience in those years. half of which isnt online or in books.
many of the things you read in preparation to start breeding/keeping/owning is all "dumbed" down a bit and skewed to a neutral position in order to make information the safest and easiest for the masses to understand and use and make it easier on the babies as well. it doesnt mean that it is the gospel. yes i would agree that its not the most sterile thing to do sticking your fingers all in the egg, but doesnt mean that you cant do it. just means you have to prepare before hand. just washing your hands is good enough.
sorry for the rant
adam jeffery

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Makes perfect sense, and fits exactly what Cavanaugh was saying comparing new moms to nurses who have been through it all :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by adamjeffery

not to sound like a snob, but the comments im reading are all up to par with the experience of the person saying them. those with less experience that have more "internet knowledge" than hands on experience are the ones against this guy. the ones with more hands on experience know the truth on what we can do. im not saying your wrong. actually your right for your level of experience. if you have only ever had 1 breeding and 1 clutch of 4 eggs then i dont expect you to understand a video like this. but after you have hatched thousands of eggs from many different species you tend to look at things differently.
im not saying im even remotely as experienced as this guy or many on here. so im not being cocky. i just know what i do now compared to what i did when i was just starting. i have hatched out maybe 500 eggs of different species over the last 10-12 years. i have gained a lot of experience in those years. half of which isnt online or in books.
many of the things you read in preparation to start breeding/keeping/owning is all "dumbed" down a bit and skewed to a neutral position in order to make information the safest and easiest for the masses to understand and use and make it easier on the babies as well. it doesnt mean that it is the gospel. yes i would agree that its not the most sterile thing to do sticking your fingers all in the egg, but doesnt mean that you cant do it. just means you have to prepare before hand. just washing your hands is good enough.
sorry for the rant
adam jeffery

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Wow! Do you mind if I quote this in about 1,000 future conversations?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

Wow! Do you mind if I quote this in about 1,000 future conversations?

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go ahead it will make it so i dont have to quote myself....lol
adam jeffery

I've seen a lot of videos of him on youtube practically ripping the babies out of the egg. He just shoves his fingers in and yanks them out. I would never buy from him.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bellabob

I've seen a lot of videos of him on youtube practically ripping the babies out of the egg. He just shoves his fingers in and yanks them out. I would never buy from him.

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Why? Would you never let the nurse who has held 1,000's of babies before handle yours because she is confident in her / his skills and abilities?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Anatopism

I think it's probably more acceptable due to the fact that they're retics... snakes that are bulldozers when eating. They don't stress easily and seem to keep eating no matter what. They also lay huge clutches, so if one or two don't make it, you still have a lot left over.

If you were to do that with ball pythons (pulling them out/touching/messing with while in the eggs), who are notorious for getting stressed easily and going off of feed... some don't even like to eat when you haven't messed with them at all... you might see more problems.

Yes, they ARE retics and not bps in the video, but posting a video where the guy seems to show no care for the snakes, and can't even tell you what the genes are in the animals, on a website dedicated primarily to bps, where many of us are passionate about breeding for the love of the animal, and not just for $$$... we're bound to see some outlash.

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Theres a video of him doing the same exact thing he's doing here only with cornsnake babies.

But I'm almost certain they removed it due to extremely negative commments.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

Why? Would you never let the nurse who has held 1,000's of babies before handle yours because she is confident in her / his skills and abilities?

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I'm pretty sure nurses don't go in and cut the baby out before it's due date. They would only do such a thing if it was an emergency or if it still hasn't been born after the due date.

Poor comparison.

I'm sorry, I really don't want to get in the middle of the debate since I'm clearly one of those people with more "internet knowledge" than actual hands on experience....but if I ever saw a nurse handling my newborn, ripping him out of me and manhandling him, you can bet your bottom I'd say something about it and make sure it doesn't happen again with my child :gj:

end mom rant. :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bellabob

I'm pretty sure nurses don't go in and cut the baby out before it's due date. They would only do such a thing if it was an emergency or if it still hasn't been born after the due date.

Poor comparison.

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Oh, ok... So you have a problem with him cutting the eggs before they are due...

News Alert: The vast majority of experienced breeders that you talk to on this site cut eggs all the time. I usually prefer to pinch and rip mine open some because I just don't trust my skills enough to have sharps around the babies... plus, ripping has always worked just fine for me . Does that mean you won't buy babies from me or from the majority of people on this site?

Or is it that you think it is wrong for him to touch the babies?? You think it is bad for him to pull the babies out a little to take a look, then watch them squirm back into the eggs and get nice and comfy?

News Alert: This too is common practice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bellabob

I'm pretty sure nurses don't go in and cut the baby out before it's due date. They would only do such a thing if it was an emergency or if it still hasn't been born after the due date.

Poor comparison.

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That is a very poor comparison. We aren't talking about the way they are handled AFTER they are born. We are talking about them being ripped out of the egg, BEFORE they were supposed to hatch naturally...

The nurse handling a born child is completely different and is no way related to what is going on here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

Oh, ok... So you have a problem with him cutting the eggs before they are due...

News Alert: The vast majority of experienced breeders that you talk to on this site cut eggs all the time. I usually prefer to pinch and rip mine open some because I just don't trust my skills enough to have sharps around the babies... plus, ripping has always worked just fine for me . Does that mean you won't buy babies from me or from the majority of people on this site?

Or is it that you think it is wrong for him to touch the babies?? You think it is bad for him to pull the babies out a little to take a look, then watch them squirm back into the eggs and get nice and comfy?

News Alert: This too is common practice.

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I'd like to see some links of cutting videos of people breeding ball pythons that do this (the same way this guy does). I think cutting eggs is fine. I don't agree with pulling the babies out after you cut and forcing them back in the egg. Of the many BP cutting videos I've seen, I've yet to see one where they pull it out of the egg. Prove me wrong.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by adamsky27

That is a very poor comparison. We aren't talking about the way they are handled AFTER they are born. We are talking about them being ripped out of the egg, BEFORE they were supposed to hatch naturally...

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You are seriously being overly dramatic. LOL, you act like this guy ripped the babies out of the egg, threw them against the wall, then shoved them back in the egg! He cut them with precision with a razor (something he has obviously done thousands of times)... He pulled them out a little to identify their pattern, then he helped them squirm back into the egg.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by adamsky27

I'd like to see some links of cutting videos of people breeding ball pythons that do this (the same way this guy does). I think cutting eggs is fine. I don't agree with pulling the babies out after you cut and forcing them back in the egg. Of the many BP cutting videos I've seen, I've yet to see one where they pull it out of the egg. Prove me wrong.

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Typical internet based knowledge... "Show me where it is on the web, because if it isn't on the web, it doesn't happen" LOL

I may not know much about breeding, especially with retics, but I can say that this video made me a little bit uncomfortable.

But I guess some people are right. You tell someone who has never picked up a baby or small child off the floor, and they'll do it super-awkwardly and overly-gently. Then, when you watch their mothers pick them up off the floor, it may look a bit more rough and/or fast.
This guy would be classified as one of the "mothers", since he's been hatching healthy babies for a very long time. It may look more rough to us, but maybe the more experienced breeders feel that this isn't an issue and doesn't hard the animal, including this guy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CatandDiallo

I may not know much about breeding, especially with retics, but I can say that this video made me a little bit uncomfortable.

But I guess some people are right. You tell someone who has never picked up a baby or small child off the floor, and they'll do it super-awkwardly and overly-gently. Then, when you watch their mothers pick them up off the floor, it may look a bit more rough and/or fast.
This guy would be classified as one of the "mothers", since he's been hatching healthy babies for a very long time. It may look more rough to us, but maybe the more experienced breeders feel that this isn't an issue and doesn't hard the animal, including this guy.

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and you are correct.
if it makes someone uncomfortable that is fine. that person see's there limit and realizes its not something they want to do. but some of us that have been around may feel comfortable doing it. other's that have been around still choose not to which is fine as well. i myself dont pull them out but i do move them around to see what i need to see.
those talking about stress need to understand that this whole process takes only seconds per snake. not gonna stress them out that much if at all.
adam jeffery

Although I personally wouldn't dig in to the egg and mess with the babies, I doubt he's ever had any problems resulting from it.

People are way to paranoid about how delicate and tempermental these animals are.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

Typical internet based knowledge... "Show me where it is on the web, because if it isn't on the web, it doesn't happen" LOL

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Before you open your mouth please read what I said. I didn't say that it doesn't happen. What I said was that of all the BP cutting videos that I have seen, I have yet to see a person pull the snakes out of the egg, and then shove them back in. Again, please prove me wrong. Or better yet, do this with your next clutch and post some videos of it. See what responses you get.

LOL at yourself...:rofl:

I was impressed with his cutting abilities. It takes me around 30 minutes to cut 5 or 6 eggs;) I would never attempt to pull a baby out but don't see anything wrong with it. I have put my finger in all of my eggs and never had a problem.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by adamsky27

Before you open your mouth please read what I said. I didn't say that it doesn't happen. What I said was that of all the BP cutting videos that I have seen, I have yet to see a person pull the snakes out of the egg, and then shove them back in. Again, please prove me wrong. Or better yet, do this with your next clutch and post some videos of it. See what responses you get.

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This thread is a perfect example of why you won't see many videos on it. Newbies are way to quick to pass judgement on things when it goes against what their internet experience has shown to be right or wrong.

Regardless of if you like it or not, it is common practice. The reason it is common practice by the way is because if you know what you are doing and what you are working with, it is harmless.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by adamsky27

Or better yet, do this with your next clutch and post some videos of it. See what responses you get.

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I couldn't care less what others think of my practices. I do what works for me and my animals. I just hatched out my last clutch of the season. They were on day 56 when the first baby started to cut the egg. I was anxious to see what everything was so I ripped the other 6 eggs open. All of the yolks were obviously already gone so I went ahead and dumped them out of the eggs completely and washed the slime off of them in the kitchen sink. Now they are sitting nice and clean and happy in their tub waiting for their first shed. 2.0 Super pastels, 1.2 Pastels, and 1.1 Normals.

I think this is a great thread. I try to remain neutral on forums. They are meant to serve as a place for everyone all of knowledge and experience levels to share and learn. Everyone needs to start somewhere and will grow with time and experience. Animal husbandry will always be evolving and adapting as individuals try new techniques, some will work and others will fail miserably. I personally find it intriguing to watch a breeder be able to effortlessly cut eggs in the manner he sees fit. I wouldn't be able to try it out on MY first clutch, but that's just me. I guess what I'm trying to say is to read, watch, share, and learn, then perform the techniques you are comfortable and agree with. This method has always worked for me.

Jay has quite a lot of videos like this, and I've always thought it would be an extremely fruitful experience if I could work with him for even just a few days with his retics. he also has a large business it seems, so he's got to be making money from sales. It doesn't bother me the least that he pulls them out of their eggs after cutting. It reduces the chance of having a baby snake drown in the amniotic fluid because of an undeveloped egg tooth, which happens apparently. More power to him for trying to minimize egg loss. That's my view on the situation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Anatopism

I think it's probably more acceptable due to the fact that they're retics... snakes that are bulldozers when eating. They don't stress easily and seem to keep eating no matter what. They also lay huge clutches, so if one or two don't make it, you still have a lot left over.

If you were to do that with ball pythons (pulling them out/touching/messing with while in the eggs), who are notorious for getting stressed easily and going off of feed... some don't even like to eat when you haven't messed with them at all... you might see more problems.

Yes, they ARE retics and not bps in the video, but posting a video where the guy seems to show no care for the snakes, and can't even tell you what the genes are in the animals, on a website dedicated primarily to bps, where many of us are passionate about breeding for the love of the animal, and not just for $$$... we're bound to see some outlash.

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People cut ball python eggs all the time.

All the time.

And yes, many of them are just as dedicated and passionate about their animals as the newbies who have never heard of the practice and therefore rush to condemn it.

Sometimes the best view isn't from the saddle of a high horse...........

I have watched this guy before. I was horrified that anyone would treat his babies like this. I would NEVER EVER do this to one of mine.

That said the man obviously has done it many times. If he killed his babies doing it he would stop. He also made a few points here that I must point out. First he said (repeatedly) that he was cutting the eggs because they had such a thick skin. That is a very real fear. Second he also pointed out he didn't like to "fight" a baby if it didn't want to come out. I don't do these kinds of snakes but he was obviously excited and acted like these where high end morphs. I would think if any harm came to the babies and they died he would have to stop or he wouldn't make any money or get any new morphs.

I am a novice when it comes to eggs. I don't have the experience to cut like this guy does. The way he was cutting I was surprised he didn't cut any of the babies. That alone showed me he has done this many many times. I also got the feeling (and I am not sure why) that he wasn't being as rough as it looked. None of the babies where moving much after he cut them and that worried me. To me I would have to look at his mortality rate before I said I wouldn't ever buy from him.

I cringe every time I watch one of his clips. Maybe he knows something I don't. LOL that is a VERY real possibility. I only have maybe 8 eggs a year and he has 100's he deals with all the time so I would say (grudging) that they are his animals and he can do with them as he wants. I also have to admit he had some very nice babies in those eggs.

I can't speak to retics or Jays ability's. I can only speak for myself an my experiences having cut a couple hundred eggs over the last couple of years I can tell you that baby snakes are far more hardy that we give them credit for. I don't think Jay is really endangering his animals in any way. He's far more comfortable with messing with babies in the egg than I am but that's just my personal comfort, I know of and have seen fellow do things with eggs that make my stomach do flips.

Bashing Jay here isn't going to help or hurt him,us, or the reptile community as a whole. My suggestion is to call or email Jay and ask him why he does it that way (don't be a tool about it) but take this chance to learn something for someone is 15+ years experience breeding..

Ok back to your coffee.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

I can't speak to retics or Jays ability's. I can only speak for myself an my experiences having cut a couple hundred eggs over the last couple of years I can tell you that baby snakes are far more hardy that we give them credit for. I don't think Jay is really endangering his animals in any way. He's far more comfortable with messing with babies in the egg than I am but that's just my personal comfort, I know of and have seen fellow do things with eggs that make my stomach do flips.

Bashing Jay here isn't going to help or hurt him,us, or the reptile community as a whole. My suggestion is to call or email Jay and ask him why he does it that way (don't be a tool about it) but take this chance to learn something for someone is 15+ years experience breeding..

Ok back to your coffee.

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Ed you are right on the money, great post btw but what you suggested would be the common sense thing for people to do, its much easier for most to jump a bandwagon here. I guess some people would say im a sadist if I say I typically cut eggs 10 days early or even earlier and they hatch fine, when I know people that cut at day 30 with no complications

My problem with the guy is more to do with his attitude. His tone of voice has always sounded arrogant to me. I don't judge what he does. I am not qualified. But I do think I can judge his presentation. He just comes off as a grade A dbag when he talks.

My 2 cents.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MasonC2K

My problem with the guy is more to do with his attitude. His tone of voice has always sounded arrogant to me. I don't judge what he does. I am not qualified. But I do think I can judge his presentation. He just comes off as a grade A dbag when he talks.

My 2 cents.

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im not sure that even i can disagree with that one...lol
adam jeffery

It amazes me how people can be so quick to judge... often when they have little to no personal experience... Then those same people don't understand why more videos aren't posted.

:8:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

People cut ball python eggs all the time.

All the time.

And yes, many of them are just as dedicated and passionate about their animals as the newbies who have never heard of the practice and therefore rush to condemn it.

Sometimes the best view isn't from the saddle of a high horse...........

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I never said anything about cutting the eggs. Cutting the eggs has an actual function of helping the snakes exit on their own terms, without risk of drowning. I also never said he doesn't know what he's talking about, nor that he doesn't produce quality snakes. All of my posts were describing what seems and comes across as lack of care - and yes, this is due partially to lack of experience, but also because I've seen plenty of other videos and talked to other breeders who do have lots of experience, that go through a lot of effort to ensure the health/safety of their babies.

Again, clarifying, never said he doesn't know what he's doing, but simply as MasonC2k stated, it's more in the presentation. Videos like this present the idea that it's easy to just slice the eggs open and pull the snakes out, and to "newcomers" to the breeding scene, can give a false impression of how to properly do what he's doing in the video. I know it is everybody's personal responsibility to do research on proper techniques, but it would be nice if there were videos with a disclaimer or a more in depth explanation about the techniques that do seem more 'rough' to the less experienced. Being in the 'public eye' of snake breeding puts some level of responsibility on the more experienced, when it comes to the health and safety of another living creature.

If this is a forum about learning and exploring the husbandry requirements of snakes/ball pythons, these "more experienced" breeders should be taking the time to explain why this practice is OK and not using the "you are wrong because you're ignorant and I'm right because I say so" approach. These are emotional responses to a video that shows techniques that even other established breeders don't necessarily practice, and just because somebody "has more internet experience than real life experience" does not invalidate an emotional reaction. It is fine to defend prehistoric pets, or anybody you feel is being wrongfully judged, but do so in a way that is informative and not just "because I know more than you".

Just because the animals are hardier than expected and seem to come out fine does not inherently make it right. Because people disagree with it doesn't make it wrong. At the same time, it is not wrong for people to feel uncomfortable or disagree with the practice just because some people haven't seen any negative consequences.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MasonC2K

My problem with the guy is more to do with his attitude. His tone of voice has always sounded arrogant to me. I don't judge what he does. I am not qualified. But I do think I can judge his presentation.

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