If it's too good to be true....

...it probably is. We've all heard it and possibly said it - when a deal for a snake looks like a steal, buyer beware.

Here's where my concern comes in. I eventually want to hobby breed. I know I will never make money off breeding; I'm not doing it to make money but because I'm crazy fascinated by my animals. I would like to make enough to offset a some of my yearly costs, but I know I'll never turn a profit (or even break even at this point, lol!) and I'm truly okay with that. So being that I want to hobby breed, anything I don't hold back I'd sell, but probably at nothing near breeder's prices (for example, a male albino for $100 as opposed to the normal $300ish you see). I'd be doing that because 1.) I'm an unknown, and frankly just don't have the reputation to charge breeder prices, and 2.) I'm not looking to profit.

So if you were to come across an add by a new/unknown breeder for a visual morph, and thought the price was too low, would you ignore it completely? Would you investigate it? What would you do?

I would love to hear from breeders (newer and established) as well. Did you start off with low prices and gradually increase as your reputation was building?

I'm kind of in the same boat as you, I will be having my first season this winter and I just want to hobby breed.

I think on here you will find people who will buy from you, especially if the price is right, but on kingsnake.com selling a $300 albino for $100 you might not get as many hits.

My game plan for selling babies is to sell them here, to my local herp society and some of the local pet stores for cheap. Then maybe someday I will get a good rep and be able to sell on kingsnake.com.

If you put up a website and I saw that all your snakes had a clean environment and all looked healthy I would still buy from a new breeder. It helps when you at least have experience in owning snakes for a while and "raising them up" if you will. My biggest deal is that I wanted to buy from someone who knows what they are doing and as long as you can prove that, I see no problem in getting credit. I'm in the same boat as you, I have a 100% het. albino and I want to breed because 1) Im already addicted with my first snake and 2) In my own opinion I think some prices are just ridiculous and I want people who love snakes but dont have a butt-load of cash to be able to have one...like myself lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JulieInNJ

...it probably is. We've all heard it and possibly said it - when a deal for a snake looks like a steal, buyer beware.

Here's where my concern comes in. I eventually want to hobby breed. I know I will never make money off breeding; I'm not doing it to make money but because I'm crazy fascinated by my animals. I would like to make enough to offset a some of my yearly costs, but I know I'll never turn a profit (or even break even at this point, lol!) and I'm truly okay with that. So being that I want to hobby breed, anything I don't hold back I'd sell, but probably at nothing near breeder's prices (for example, a male albino for $100 as opposed to the normal $300ish you see). I'd be doing that because 1.) I'm an unknown, and frankly just don't have the reputation to charge breeder prices, and 2.) I'm not looking to profit.

So if you were to come across an add by a new/unknown breeder for a visual morph, and thought the price was too low, would you ignore it completely? Would you investigate it? What would you do?

I would love to hear from breeders (newer and established) as well. Did you start off with low prices and gradually increase as your reputation was building?

---

Depends on how extreme we are talking here. We certainly aren't going to sell a $300 snake for $100 just to get it gone because we aren't well known. I would be wary of someone selling stuff ridiculously cheap. If its THAT cheap, we have reason to believe there is a reason. That reason is not usually a very honest one. Now if it is $250 for a $300 animal, that is another story. That just makes me believe someone has a good deal.

We aren't established breeders. We will make you a good deal, but that is it.

I think if you value your animals and your business (even if it's "just a hobby", if you're buying and selling with any regularity, its a business)...then you should price your animals accordingly.

It's not a bad idea to have a slight difference in price just to get noticed...but to price your animals at 1/3 the going rate (as per your example) is...to me...a red flag. Besides just the suspicion that you might be scamming, it also says to me that you have no confidence in yourself, your business, or your animals.

One person in particular that I know has tremendous respect for both herself and her animals. She is also a hobby-level breeder/business person and does it for the love of the animals and not for the money. But she has never, ever undercut her prices at all. In fact, because she takes such care to buy and produce quality animals, she tends to charge higher than typical prices, and never has issues moving her animals, even when she very first started selling.

DON'T undersell yourself or your animals. Instead, take this pre-business time to let folks get to know you and understand your motivations and passion for the animals. Then, when it comes time to sell, you won't have to convince anyone that you're worth looking at just because you have crazy-cheap animals.

And one more thought on "growing into" higher prices... K-marts don't grow into a Macys. Once a K-mart, always a K-mart. :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JLC

And one more thought on "growing into" higher prices... K-marts don't grow into a Macys. Once a K-mart, always a K-mart. :P

---

I don't think it's so much as growing into higher prices as it is expanding who you are selling to. My first year or two I'm sure I will sell most of my animals to my local herp society and local reptile store, but hopefully I will be able to sell to a broader market eventually. Anything I sell to my local reptile store I'll consider my self lucky if they offer me half of the market value but when I do sell to the broader market I can charge what other people are.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kinra

I don't think it's so much as growing into higher prices as it is expanding who you are selling to. My first year or two I'm sure I will sell most of my animals to my local herp society and local reptile store, but hopefully I will be able to sell to a broader market eventually. Anything I sell to my local reptile store I'll consider my self lucky if they offer me half of the market value but when I do sell to the broader market I can charge what other people are.

---

There's a difference between wholesaling to pet stores, private deals with local friends/acquaintances....and creating a retail face for the public. So my words are directed at folks who might consider creating public ads on places like Fauna, Kingsnake, even here...and/or having a "business website" with their available animals listed.

If money really isn't an issue (and I completely understand that money isn't the motivating drive behind the OP's hobby/business goals) then I see nothing wrong with offering an albino for $100 to a local friend at your herp society or wholesaling the normals to a local petstore for $10 each. It's the face of your business that is presented to the public that I'm writing about. :)

Did I price my snake lower and work up to higher prices? No. Now due to what I was breeding my animals I offered were in the Hobbiest end of the market. As my collection grew so did the price of the animals I was able to offer for-sale.

Price difference is a marketing tool that for a myriad of reasons is not excepted in our industry. No other industry do you see people getting openly dragged through the mud as bad people for running sales for weekends or 50% off for memorial day ect ect.

My suggestion is that if you want to sale your animals market your stuff accordingly, and price it right and you shouldn't have a problem.

You've all made some really fantastic points.

And Judy, you're right when you say there's a vast difference between wholesaling and private dealing.

I'm thinking it just comes down to what kind of a price difference will send up a red flag. Something as significant as a 1/3 price (to use my albino example, lol) would probably send me running as well. Whereas discounting for shipping, or a flat 15-20% off the going rates, may be a little more reasonable.

Heres a couple things to consider. If your looking at kingsnake classifieds then look at the ad first by is it by a buisness or a person, if its by a buisness the buisness is verified through ks. Now that doesnt make it a failsafe but it does show there is some recourse because that buisness has to be verified through the county the buisness is operating out of. Another thing to look at is if you pay through paypal you have more recourse cause you can always dispute and get your money back if you keep a good email record. Again its not a perfect failsafe but it does give you some recourse. As far as prices go, for example if pieds normally sell for 850 it doesnt mean they are selling so if you see someone selling em for 650 it doesnt mean a scam, it simply may mean they are aggresive to sell. Also the person selling may need to come up with quick cash to fund another animal that they are desperate to get and dont want to loose. There isnt as much scamming going on now as there used to be. I personally would buy from ks versus a free ad site like fauna any day. Also keep in mind if you do a search on the fauna boi it doesnt always tell the entire truth. Or not everyone is gonna do a good guy thread but they sure as heck will do a bad guy thread way before the deal is even completed so ya got to take that with a grain of salt. Heres an example of my point, i sold a breeder male pied male for 700 bucks on ks and i got so many emails accusing me of asking way to low on the price so they didnt trust it. I sold the animal, shipped the animal and they guy was so happy on the deal. He never did a good guy thread or did any feedback. The reason i sold him so low was cause i wanted to sell him fast so i could raise up what i needed for an adult calico female and i didnt want the calico to get away. Theres nothing wrong with asking for refrences as well if you have doubt dealing with someone online. Anyone would be more then willing to give refrences to close a deal.

Julie, I know what you are trying to say, but this is a completely different world. If you end up selling your snakes for that cheap, unless say to a close friend, you may get a lot of negativity in the reptile community from other breeders.

As JLC has mentioned, you need to price you animals closer to the market. As AK said, it would be best to give a small discount and not a 66% off discount. That is far too extreme, and why not make a little more money off of it to help you out some? There is NOTHING wrong with that.

Unfortunately a $100 male albino will only throw up red flags. Unless I was a good friend of yours getting a spectacular deal, I would never buy an albino priced that low.


To both you and Kinra
I say if you want to sell for that low, make sure you only do it with close friends. You seem like great people and I don't think you'd ever build a good reputation with prices that low. All it does is scream "Hey, I want to move my snakes out, they are cheap, and the quality sucks." As we all know, you both aren't like that. But that is the message you will put out with a price like that.

I say if you want to price them lower, go ahead, but only discount them a little. Even for members here, we will be more likely to get a "forum member" discount of $50 on that albino, but a $250 discount is going to push away any REPUTABLE customers. You may have some creeps buying from you at that point. No offense to anyone, I just know that cheap stuff might attract cheap people that will NOT take good care of the snakes.


Just my .02.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jessica Loesch

All it does is scream "Hey, I want to move my snakes out, they are cheap, and the quality sucks."

---

That is a good point. If I looked at someone selling a bunch of morphs at WAY too low of a price, I'd wonder why too.

Selling at a discounted rate is one thing, but going too low could definitely have and adverse effect on what I'm trying to do.

You would not crash any market if you sell a couple animals that low. Now if you put a couple hundred animals out there at those prices you may shake up the market a little but i wouldnt worry about it. The market in a whole is geared as a sellers market. There is a reason you see some animals posted for weeks and dont sell. A market can only be made if the product is selling. The market is dictated by the price the product sells for not what the product is being priced at. I saw 2011 pieds being sold for 600 bucks the other day. Unfourtanatly thats what they are selling for now. The people trying to sell them in the 800 range arent moving em. Unless you are a big name and then people are buying the name. Now there is a question of quality as well and you have to look at that as well. But i dont see anything wrong with lowering prices on a few animals. Your not gonna even give the market a hiccup.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jessica Loesch

Julie, I know what you are trying to say, but this is a completely different world. If you end up selling your snakes for that cheap, unless say to a close friend, you may get a lot of negativity in the reptile community from other breeders.

As JLC has mentioned, you need to price you animals closer to the market. As AK said, it would be best to give a small discount and not a 66% off discount. That is far too extreme, and why not make a little more money off of it to help you out some? There is NOTHING wrong with that.

Unfortunately a $100 male albino will only throw up red flags. Unless I was a good friend of yours getting a spectacular deal, I would never buy an albino priced that low.


To both you and Kinra
I say if you want to sell for that low, make sure you only do it with close friends. You seem like great people and I don't think you'd ever build a good reputation with prices that low. All it does is scream "Hey, I want to move my snakes out, they are cheap, and the quality sucks." As we all know, you both aren't like that. But that is the message you will put out with a price like that.

I say if you want to price them lower, go ahead, but only discount them a little. Even for members here, we will be more likely to get a "forum member" discount of $50 on that albino, but a $250 discount is going to push away any REPUTABLE customers. You may have some creeps buying from you at that point. No offense to anyone, I just know that cheap stuff might attract cheap people that will NOT take good care of the snakes.


Just my .02.

---

Jessica nailed just what I was going to say. If you advertise your morphs for well below market value you, even as a small breeder, hurt the market on that morph. People will see that as a sign the price for that morph is dropping, Other breeders will see your advertised price and lower theirs to try to compete, you can end up hurting many breeders, and then you may not have many other breeders as friends afterwards.
If you want to sell your animals discounted thats fine, that's your business. But when you advertise at these low prices, that is when you start to affect other breeders.

Colin Weaver wrote a pretty good article on the subject: http://ballpythonbreeder.com/2009/04...price-animals/

I am new to the whole idea of breeding and selling. I've got some fun projects planned for my first couple of seasons and would also consider myself a soon-to-be hobby breeder. I know my first couple of seasons I will be holding back a lot of what I make, but I'd like to sell off what doesn't fit into my projects. And right now, I have zero rep as a breeder. But because I love what I'm doing and my animals, I'm getting addicted to this online community. So hopefully, by the time I have babies to offer, community members will be willing to take a chance on me and things will take off from there.

So to answer your question, if I didn't know you as a breeder, but did recognize you as a good member member of the community, I think that I would buy something from you if had something I was looking for. However, exceptionally low prices would be a red flag to me as well. I'm willing to pay for quality. A super low price would cause me to wonder why it is so low and none of the answers I come up with would be good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adam Chandler

Colin Weaver wrote a pretty good article on the subject: http://ballpythonbreeder.com/2009/04...price-animals/

---

That's a fantastic article. Thanks for posting!

I would like to point out what snake lab said. Selling a couple snakes that low won't crash the market no, but it will make certain people unhappy unless you do it privately with, as I mentioned before, good friends that won't tote about, advertising what they paid, and ruining it for others.

Who cares if it makes someone in a competing market unhappy. Its a buisness. Unless you are doing this with hundreds of animals you are not hurting anything. I gaurantee not one person who gets a great deal is going to sit back and say, oh im mad that i got a great deal. I wanted to blow out a couple clutches this year of bees. I had 3.5 of bees and i sold the females for 300 and males for 200. Not a single person lowered any prices. The market will never be dictated based on what one person does. Now if every person selling bees came down to that price then that would be affecting the market. This is an industry of depreciating products. Every year the animals will drop. It just is what it is. no breeder is gonna be upset if someone who produces a couple clutches a year blows the animals out. Especially single morph stuff.

Well, I don't think Julie wants to feel that way. So it's up to her if she wants to sell her animals that low, but she is worth more than that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jessica Loesch

To both you and Kinra
I say if you want to sell for that low, make sure you only do it with close friends. You seem like great people and I don't think you'd ever build a good reputation with prices that low. All it does is scream "Hey, I want to move my snakes out, they are cheap, and the quality sucks." As we all know, you both aren't like that. But that is the message you will put out with a price like that.

I say if you want to price them lower, go ahead, but only discount them a little. Even for members here, we will be more likely to get a "forum member" discount of $50 on that albino, but a $250 discount is going to push away any REPUTABLE customers. You may have some creeps buying from you at that point. No offense to anyone, I just know that cheap stuff might attract cheap people that will NOT take good care of the snakes.


Just my .02.

---

I get what you were saying but I can't see myself getting a bad rep for selling my animals at around half price or less to local stores or members of my local herp society. Reputation is something that can take a while to build, so I plan on sticking to areas where I think I can sell fairly easily. That being said, I've also put a lot of time and effort into making a website so I can expand my business in the future.

I'm also in a sticky situation where if I actually start making money selling snakes I could lose my job. I signed a non-competitive agreement when I started which basically said I can't have any other source of income so I need to make sure I only ever break even or only turn a very small profit or any profit I make I need to donate to some cause/non profit. :(

I have never lower my prices, or undercut other breeder to get a sale, not even when I was new with no reputation (not like I am known now either anyway) however I work very hard with my animals, I proud myself to produce some animals that speak for themselves (selective breeding being key), treat my customers the way I want to be treated and got involved very early on on a few forums so people would get to know me.

You do not have to have a big name to sell your animals at the current market price. :gj:

It all starts with being involved, being honest, being a member in good standing in the herp community and producing quality animals ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kinra

I get what you were saying but I can't see myself getting a bad rep for selling my animals at around half price or less to local stores or members of my local herp society. Reputation is something that can take a while to build, so I plan on sticking to areas where I think I can sell fairly easily. That being said, I've also put a lot of time and effort into making a website so I can expand my business in the future.

I'm also in a sticky situation where if I actually start making money selling snakes I could lose my job. I signed a non-competitive agreement when I started which basically said I can't have any other source of income so I need to make sure I only ever break even or only turn a very small profit or any profit I make I need to donate to some cause/non profit. :(

---

That's why I said UNLESS you are selling to good friends, which of course can include those in your local herp group.


Deborah is someone I would consider a mentor in all of this.. she is great. :)

Personally, I've seen(personally heard from breeders both big and smaller) really bad opinions on anyone who's lowering a price to WAY below market value. Is it going to crash the market? No. Is it going to give you a poor rep to people you may want to purchase from later on? Yes.

If you're advertising albinos at 1/3 the price(using the example), then someone might ask about your cheap albinos, find you're already sold out(because say you only had a couple for sale) and go to the next person with albinos. When the price is normal, they'll whine "But So-So had them for $100!!" And that seller/breeder is going to be annoyed because his snakes are worth more than that and now he's got some people who've seen the ADVERTISED price of $100. Will he still sell HIS snakes at his price? Most likely. Will he have to field whiny people who don't 'get it' that not everyone will offer ridiculously low prices for whatever reason? Yes. I've had to answer emails the same, declining lowball offers and hearing "But I could get one from XX at $X!" It's annoying.

If you NEED to sell a few animals in order to make a purchase or make some bills, etc. that's not the same as just pricing ALL your produced animals at 1/3 the market price. Most people understand getting in a bind and needing the extra cash and moving some animals quickly.

Myself, I won't buy from someone cutting all their prices ridiculously low. I don't want to support someone who doesn't value their animals. I also don't want to support anyone who is making more of the entitled whiny cheapo 'breeders' who expect every price to be slashed to nothing for no reason. I don't mind a deal. I don't mine a price being higher or lower than market. But just slashing the prices to WAY below market just "because" will lose me as a buyer.

Many of the same people who are all pleased to see a price drop crazy low are then the first to start shouting about how "unfair" it is that by the time THEY produce animals from their cheap ones, the price is in the toilet and they won't make tons of money. Well... what do you expect?

If you want to be "just a hobby breeder" and want to sell your animals fast and cheap, just wholesale them. You'll have them all gone in one or two batches, you'll get paid and only have to make a couple shipments and be done with hatchling season. Then you can concentrate on your holdbacks and any new animals you've purchased. You will ALSO build a reputation with sellers that you produce nice quality animals without any stigma as to pricing at all. AND you won't have to field 500 emails all whining that the price isn't low enough, you should take 20 more pictures and can you do payments for the next 5 years and can they have the snake for free because they "reely reely want 1 reely bad!!!!" (actual email, I swear)

Also, deals between friends don't ever count in "advertised prices". That's a private sale. It's like trades, you might value something you want more than what you have and it's then a "fair trade".

Please excuse the hijack, but I have a question. If a person were to sell at about 20% below market, would that be considered too low for a newcomer? How about if the 20% discount were tied to the buyer providing feedback after the sale? Would a 10% discount be more appropriate?
I followed the market this last season, and I noticed that newcomers selling a little under the market did well, where as those selling at market seemed to have trouble. At 20% off, newcomers sold out quickly.
I thought this would be a good strategy for me in my first year of selling, but I don't want to upset other breeders or have a negative affect on the market. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

If you want to be "just a hobby breeder" and want to sell your animals fast and cheap, just wholesale them. You'll have them all gone in one or two batches, you'll get paid and only have to make a couple shipments and be done with hatchling season. Then you can concentrate on your holdbacks and any new animals you've purchased. You will ALSO build a reputation with sellers that you produce nice quality animals without any stigma as to pricing at all. AND you won't have to field 500 emails all whining that the price isn't low enough, you should take 20 more pictures and can you do payments for the next 5 years and can they have the snake for free because they "reely reely want 1 reely bad!!!!" (actual email, I swear)

---

That's a great angle, and I really appreciated the advice. :gj:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by piedplus

Please excuse the hijack, but I have a question. If a person were to sell at about 20% below market, would that be considered too low for a newcomer? How about if the 20% discount were tied to the buyer providing feedback after the sale? Would a 10% discount be more appropriate?
I followed the market this last season, and I noticed that newcomers selling a little under the market did well, where as those selling at market seemed to have trouble. At 20% off, newcomers sold out quickly.
I thought this would be a good strategy for me in my first year of selling, but I don't want to upset other breeders or have a negative affect on the market. :)

---

And those are great questions - not a hijack at all. Goes right along with what I'm asking about.

So what I gather from most posts, is that it's okay to slightly discount as a new breeder, as long as it isn't something so ridiculous that I would find myself among the 'sleazy', LOL. And moving for a quick sale to purchase a new animal is completely understandable.

I value my animals as pets, not just as breeding stock. I plan to keep my hets, even after I've produced the morphs, just because the were part of my original crew. :D

Like I said, if you can show proof that you CARE for your snakes, and have experience I dont see anything wrong with selling them cheaper, maybe not quite that low, but still at a lot better deal than "normal" prices. Big name breeders wont even blink an eye with a clutch or two going for less.I know that it might hurt your reputation by selling them cheaper, mainly by small breeders who are getting the normal prices for them. I actually think it could help your reputation...if you have established yourself on here and again, can prove that you truly care about your snakes, it could turn a lot of people onto you who aren't willing to pay $500 for an albino but would be willing to give $250-$300 all day. You may make people mad:mad:, but you would also be making a lot of peple happy:banana:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Did I price my snake lower and work up to higher prices? No. Now due to what I was breeding my animals I offered were in the Hobbiest end of the market. As my collection grew so did the price of the animals I was able to offer for-sale.

Price difference is a marketing tool that for a myriad of reasons is not excepted in our industry. No other industry do you see people getting openly dragged through the mud as bad people for running sales for weekends or 50% off for memorial day ect ect.

My suggestion is that if you want to sale your animals market your stuff accordingly, and price it right and you shouldn't have a problem.

---

This.

I also did not start out pricing my animals below what more established breeders sold their animals for.

An albino is an albino (in your example). Just because Ralph Davis, or Tracy Barker, or any other big name makes one, they don't sprinkle it with pixie dust that makes it worth more than yours. Sell if for market value.

Participate in forums like you're doing here - build a reputation for being a keeper who cares about her animals and helping others, and you won't have a problem selling your animals for market value.

One thing you have to remember - just because your animals don't sell the first day, first week or even first month you post it for sale doesn't mean it's not going to sell and that you have to slash your prices. Your buyer just hasn't found you yet.

I'm perfectly willing to hang onto animals until they sell, especially females, because the more weight they put on, the more their value goes up. A 500 gram female should sell for more than a hatchling.

I've never been intimidated by the big breeders or more established breeders - and you shouldn't either. As long as you are producing quality animals that people desire - you'll have no problems.

Julie, I am not too far behind you:D or we are neck in neck. Either way you want to look at it;)
(I think I have posted this before:oops:)
I found several other breeders in my area to hook up with and do some trading. I already have a deal worked on a clutch from a snake I havent received yet:O..............................

had to run to a service call so there may be many more posts now............................

Point is I already have outlets for the ones I am not planning on holding back.
Even have 2 "mom and pop" pet shops for normals.

I never buy based on how well the company is known.

I buy based on the following:

1) The individual animal. How it compares to other individuals of the same morph.
2) Whether the seller seems trustworthy. Having a website is reassuring to me.
3) The customer service. I had a big name company that was actually pretty rude to me, and I ended up not buying one of their animals solely because of their poor customer service.

Low pricing isn't a huge factor in my decision. Obviously I want it to be *reasonably* priced, but I don't mind spending extra cash for an animal that's worth it. If the price was ridiculously low, unless I had good reason to trust the seller, I would pass it up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JulieInNJ

That's a fantastic article. Thanks for posting!

---

+1. That was a really interesting read, thanks for posting! I think anyone who plans to breed ball pythons (or does breed them) can benefit from the stuff that Colin Weaver writes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pigfat

You may make people mad:mad:, but you would also be making a lot of peple happy:banana:

---

Not exactly. If you have two or three albinos (for instance) to sell and you choose to sell them for a fraction of their market value...then "you may make people mad but you would also be making two or three people happy."

And really...in my discussion, and in the others I've seen that I agree with, it's not a matter of making anyone "mad". It's a matter of what kind of impression you want to give to your customers. Do you want your customers to think there's something wrong either with your business, your personal life, or the quality of your animals that you must sell them for so low? Or do you want your customers to see a businessman/woman who is firm in their conviction on the value of their animals and their business?

So heres a question.
Being a new breeder i should hold an animal for a long time because i am scared to sell it for less than everyone else?

to me that brings up more questions.
1.will it be worth the prices to you later(after feeding and all other related cost)
2.i personally would buy larger snakes(but alot of large snakes dont seem to sell)
for example every show i have went to,hamburg,oaks,white plains,reticon,all the larger snakes seem to sit,but the hatchlings sell better.
3.what is a reseanable amount of time not to sell an animal before you discount it.
4.also certain areas the market is not as strong as others(there are breeders in my area that have been advertising the same animal for over 5 months now) on fauna and kingsnake,so the animal is getting bigger but it wont even sell for the hatchling price(which brings me back to point #1)


you cant sell a 2010 honda for the prices of a 2011 honda(even brand new)thats just not business, just me 2 cents

Cars are not the same as snakes. A Honda is a Honda, exactly the same Honda, even though there's new ones on the market.

A snake is bigger and therefor closer to being breed-ready after a year. You're not only selling the snake, you're charging extra because you're buying TIME. Time that you personally don't have to wait for the snake to grow.

With males it's not as predominant as females, but males can sell for more if they're "breeding size".

[QUOTE=wolfy-hound;1672214]Cars are not the same as snakes. A Honda is a Honda, exactly the same Honda, even though there's new ones on the market.

A snake is bigger and therefor closer to being breed-ready after a year. You're not only selling the snake, you're charging extra because you're buying TIME. Time that you personally don't have to wait for the snake to grow.

With males it's not as predominant as females, but males can sell for mor

But if they dont sell at that price(i have been to hamburg 3 times and have seen some off the same adults for the same price.)so is market prices worth it all the time,becuase breed ready size dont seem to matter.
Then when the over all price of that morph drops,you still ended up having to it cheaper any way(in the long run)
So when is discounting exceptable,or is everyone just afraid to go against the big breeders,because thats who sets the market prices anyway.

So it seems like most just gives the politically correct answer.

It's nothing to do with "politically correct". There's nothing wrong with SOME discounting. It's talking about slashing prices to ridiculous levels.

I see larger females snapped up. Other than normal females which are cheap, morph females seem to sell quicker, the larger girls always go first. Unless they're marked up crazy high(over market prices), adult and subadult females have always seemed to go faster than hatchlings in my personal experiaince.

Might not be what you've seen where you go, but that's what I've seen myself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

It's nothing to do with "politically correct". There's nothing wrong with SOME discounting. It's talking about slashing prices to ridiculous levels.

I see larger females snapped up. Other than normal females which are cheap, morph females seem to sell quicker, the larger girls always go first. Unless they're marked up crazy high(over market prices), adult and subadult females have always seemed to go faster than hatchlings in my personal experiaince.

Might not be what you've seen where you go, but that's what I've seen myself.

---

Also goes back to what i said about the market in the area you are in,hamburg and white plains are huge shows,and i have seen some of the same breeders everytime(morphs and normals)on the same breeders tables.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by buddha1200

So heres a question.
Being a new breeder i should hold an animal for a long time because i am scared to sell it for less than everyone else?

---

Why scared? This is what gets to me about these sorts of questions and arguments. The question/discussion begins with the assumption that NO ONE who is relatively new to selling animals can compete with the "big boys" without slashing their prices.

It's a FALSE assumption. That is what I (and others in this thread) have been trying to get across.

There shouldn't be anything to be scared of. If you DO find the market truly "scary" then maybe it's not the hobby/business for you. Anyone planning to sell animals should also plan for the contingency that they don't move as fast as you'd like them to.

Regarding pricing....set the prices that YOU think YOUR animals and YOUR business are worth. And be confident in the prices you've set and the service that you offer your customers. If you believe you need to have lower prices for whatever reason...then set your prices and stick to your guns with conviction. It's MY personal belief that if you have quality animals and offer quality service to your customers, then you won't NEED to have lower prices....but if you WANT to offer lower prices, do whatever you think is best. :)

Maybe scared is a harsh word.
So if i think my pastels are better qaulity,do you think i could sell them at a show for 250 when everyone else is selling them for 150(no!)
i myself will pay for what i want,but everyone does not have that luxury,everbody including myself will always look for deal first,then weigh our options about that deal

Btw,higher price doesnt always mean better quality.:colbert:
I went to shows for 2 years before i purchased my first bp and have seen plenty of high price averge bps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by buddha1200

So if i think my pastels are better qaulity,do you think i could sell them at a show for 250 when everyone else is selling them for 150(no!)

---

If you feel like you must sell at that particular show, then of course you'll price your animals however you feel will best move them. But if you really do have high quality pastels, there just might be someone at that show who is as picky as, say, rabernet...and perfectly willing to pay more for the best looking pastel at the whole show. You risk missing out on that deal if you cave in to the lowest common denominator....but the risk/benefit is yours to weigh, and not anyone else's.

But I'm not talking about vending a specific show...I'm talking about marketing to a much wider audience via online businesses where your pool of buyers is vastly larger. I'm talking about a general attitude about your entire business model...not the specifics of selling one or two particular animals in one or two given circumstances.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by buddha1200

Btw,higher price doesnt always mean better quality.:colbert:

---

I don't believe anyone here said that.

Using the show was just an example.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by buddha1200

Maybe scared is a harsh word.
So if i think my pastels are better qaulity,do you think i could sell them at a show for 250 when everyone else is selling them for 150(no!)
i myself will pay for what i want,but everyone does not have that luxury,everbody including myself will always look for deal first,then weigh our options about that deal

---

Yes. I sold my pastels for higher than market price this year. I have a few more that I haven't put up for sale yet, because they're not ready to go yet.

I know that my pastels are higher quality, and I just have to find the buyer that appreciates and is willing to pay more for higher quality animals. I sold three to one buyer at higher than market price. And he told me after we made our deal he would have paid more if I'd asked more for them - and he'd been looking for three years to find pastels that met his high standard. I had them, he bought them.

I'm also a buyer that pays more than market for stellar examples of a morph. Quality begets quality. I just picked up a Fire female who was more than any other fire female at the show. But she was also the nicest example at the show, and I wanted her, so I paid what the seller was asking. I recognized that she was far nicer than any other fire at that show.

Ha! I wrote my reply about being a buyer who pays for top quality animals before I saw Judy using me as an example of the type of buyers that are out there.

I'm not the only buyer who is choosing to take their collection and hobby to selectively breeding.

I've got people who saw my black back cinnies (they were sold before their first shed - without me advertising them) who want me to contact them next year. Because they see that they stand out from your "average" cinnie, and they want to selectively breed themselves.

Even my normals were carefully selected for how they could contribute to the quality of the animals I produced.

Like I said in my previous post, I have no rep as a breeder. But I believe in the animals I've purchased and the quality of offspring they will hopefully produce. So I plan to price them based on quality. I think a quality animal practically sells itself. Add good customer service to that and I think you have a winning combo.

I go to the White Plains show all of the time and I've seen the same thing. But the animals that I see time and again are the high end/high price snakes or those that aren't good representations of the morph (generally speaking). The high quality and financially attainable morphs move quick.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rabernet

Ha! I wrote my reply about being a buyer who pays for top quality animals before I saw Judy using me as an example of the type of buyers that are out there.

I'm not the only buyer who is choosing to take their collection and hobby to selectively breeding.

I've got people who saw my black back cinnies (they were sold before their first shed - without me advertising them) who want me to contact them next year. Because they see that they stand out from your "average" cinnie, and they want to selectively breed themselves.

Even my normals were carefully selected for how they could contribute to the quality of the animals I produced.

---

everyone doesnt have the ability to spend over market value for certain animals,so as a business person should i say screw the little guy because i feel as though becuase they dont have alot of money they dont desrve quality .

Julie,

Your line of thinking is a typical newbie mistake. You are trying to price your animals, and even discount them before they exist. Newbies tend to think that you have to be a big breeder to charge full price. This is completely and totally not true. In fact, the opposite is often true.

I guarantee you that there are plenty of people in your area that would be willing to pay you MORE then they would pay to the big breeders because you are local to them. They can meet you in person and look at your animals. They can ask you questions and get one on one customer service in person because you are THE local breeder.

The Big Breeder that you see online probably sells the majority of their stuff online, or at shows. That means that they have to keep prices low and on par with the other internet guys, or the other people at the show. If someone wants to buy from them they usually have to order the snake without even seeing it in person. They have to pay for shipping. They have to wait for it to arrive. They have to risk the snake showing up dead. Or they have to wait to go to a show to get it. With you they can call you and meet up with you that same day and look and touch in person... they can even take it home IMEDIATELY!

How do you think petco charges $80 for normals and sell out all the time? Why do you think prices for low quality morphs are so high in reptile shops? It is because they can charge those prices, the local people will pay them.

When your babies do come, put them up for sale at whatever the going kingsnake price is plus 25%. Local people will pay that all day long because you are local.

And yes, if you offer your snakes for lower then they need to be you will piss people off. This is true in any business. The ball python world is ultimately a pretty small world.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by buddha1200

everyone doesnt have the ability to spend over market value for certain animals,so as a business person should i say screw the little guy because i feel as though becuase they dont have alot of money they dont desrve quality .

---

Why do people put such a spin on common marketing techniques? Does Rolex screw the little guy because they don't sell diamond and gold watches for the price of a Timex at Walmart?

YOU price your animals however you think best. Why not give them away for free? Not everyone can afford $25 for a snake...should they suffer or be "screwed" because they happen to not have that much money?

Buddha ... your thinking is all wrong. If the little guy can't afford the morph, maybe he is in the wrong hobby methinks. There is nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with just having a pet bp. But if you can't buy a morph, then don't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by buddha1200

everyone doesnt have the ability to spend over market value for certain animals,so as a business person should i say screw the little guy because i feel as though becuase they dont have alot of money they dont desrve quality .

---

Yes. They are more then welcome to buy one of my $40 normals instead. If they want a "super $500 morph" then why shouldn't they have to pay $500? Why should I, as a business person (or even as a hobby breeder), undercut my return on my investment and time?