Aspen bedding, bad?

Throughout my whole time taking care of reptiles aspen bedding has always been on the safe list for a substrate. Until today I have never heard anyone state that aspen can be a problem. A local breeder told me most breeders have stopped using aspen because it is too dusty. I have yet to have a problem with it as a substrate as of yet, but would be willing to switch out if it poses a threat, such as sani-chips.

Have any of you heard something similar. I feel ignorant for having never heard this.

I think aspen is fine to use. I have found that aspen can be dusty, but I don't see that as a major problem to the snakes. It's more an annoyance to the breeder/owner.

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Originally Posted by eel588

Throughout my whole time taking care of reptiles aspen bedding has always been on the safe list for a substrate. Until today I have never heard anyone state that aspen can be a problem. A local breeder told me most breeders have stopped using aspen because it is too dusty. I have yet to have a problem with it as a substrate as of yet, but would be willing to switch out if it poses a threat, such as sani-chips.

Have any of you heard something similar. I feel ignorant for having never heard this.

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No I have used it for years with no problems I have no plans to change.

Aspen is horrible for ball pythons for a number of reasons. #1 its dusty and gets in the nasal passages, # 2 it doesnt promote good humidity, # 3 it will mold, the best substrate to use if you insist on an organic substrate is 100% cypress mulch. It doesnt mold and holds humidity perfectlly. I personally use news paper stock. Its easier for cleaning. When using organic substrates they are easier for spot cleaning but all liquid waste stays in unless you totally dump it every cleaning which is not very economic. With paper you can totally clean and disinfect your tubs every cleaning. Also with organic substrates you have to deal with getting stuff in the water all the time. I used to use kambark cypress but 10 years ago i couldnt find it anywhere local so i switched over to paper only and am so much happier with the results

Aspen is not horrible.

Some brands are dusty, some are not. Just compare brands.

I use aspen, and I've never had an issue with humidity yet, every single one of my snakes sheds in one piece with no extra effort on my part.

Sure aspen will mold, so will paper if you leave it long enough. I check my tubs every other day and spot clean when necessary, change the whole tub every 7 - 10 days or as needed.

I tried cypress once, THAT stuff was horrible. It stuck to the tub sides, stuck to the snakes, made a mess out of the water bowls, eww!

I have also tried paper. Granted it is easy to clean, but scrubbing every tub every time so they don't reek got tedious fast, not to mention giving the snakes a bath every time they passed waste or the snakes stunk too.

Bottom line, try a few things, find what works for you, and go with it.

Gale

I have been using the coconut husk and so far it rocks :gj:

It holds humidity really well, easy to clean, looks good, my BP likes it, it smells good, no mites, and no dust.

I have heard that its hard to find in some places, But I found it so I am using it.

I use aspen for my rats NOT for my snakes. Paper towels are okay but my snakes bunch them up too much. I like pieces of carpet best. I wash them after every soiling in color safe bleach so no bacteria buildup like some claim is the issue with carpet. Wood chips or dirt of any kind is too dusty/dirty and gets into/onto everything inside and outside of the enclosure. BP enclosures are small compared to the animal and in my opinion, after one elimination more than a spot clean is in order. Snake doodoo stinks and I want it 100% gone as soon as it lands!

Im not basing my oppinion on anything except over 20 years of experience keeping and breeding a large collection of snakes. Im just going to give one of my many experiences with aspen. I have a vet who visits me every 2 weeks to buy rodents and last year i had a guy who has a pretty extensive collection come by and brought 2 of his snakes over to meet with the vet. He was having issues with the animals not passing fecal waste. The vet examined the snakes and we immediatlly put them under the sonogram. Both had large intestinal blockages that were caused by aspen bedding. Every time the snakes ate they ingested small amounts of aspen and it collected. Another issue was one of the snakes was showing signs of a resp issue. After further examination the snake was so filled with a mixture of dust and slime also from the aspen. The vet set him up with an appointment the next day and was able to save one of the snakes but the other died. Now here is the grand finale the snake that died was a spider super stripe. We are talking a 7000 dollar animal. Now im not arguing that people dont have good experiences with it but that is one example of what can happen with the stuff. Now yes cypress is messy but any organic substrate will get in the water. But cypress is a wood that grows in swamps. It doesnt mold like aspen or pine. Paper is super easy and if your not cleaning your tubs when you clean then your not taking to good care of the snakes habitat and opening the door to alot of things. It takes me and 2 guys 3 to 4 hours to clean my collection every week and i take great care in how my animals live. I have animals worth alot of money and it takes alot of work to protect my investment. If you choose to use aspen then i wish you all the luck. Im just giving my oppinion based on experience.

I actually do not think there is a substrate that has no issues, after my experiences I'll never use a wood chip one again, I like the story of snakelab had a snake with constipation issues that through US and xray was traced to cyprus mulch.

every substrate has issues paper to coco coir all have some drawback. There is nothing perfect if there was there would be no debate on the subject. I like coco coir myself it gets everywhere and they eat it but they also pass it and I don't mind cleaning it up. That is me others objections are stronger than mine and say it sucks I think you will find that with everything. You have to use something (or nothing no substrate method) but there is a choice weigh your supply (they are not the same) against your experiences and your environment and pick what is best suited to you.

personally I can get quite clean aspen if I chose to it is almost dust free. I don't like it, wood chip thing that is me. It works fine for some I didn't like it. I don't like newspaper too much work and don't like the offset inks, dioxin... on and on. Cyprus is a poor choice for environmental reasons melucca is better if you can get it... you get my point... on and on and on... pick one.

I use newspaper most of the time on my racks but have used aspen for many years without many problems with dustiness or ingestion though I take certain precautions. Sometimes I'll get a bag that's a bit on the dusty side, I just gently shake the dust down to the bottom and throw out the last inch or so of the bag when I get down that far. When feeding on aspen I usually toss a piece of newspaper down first and have never had any issues with ingestion.

@kitedemon. The blockage was from aspen not cypress just to clarify. And yes i agree with you totally that any substrate has its issues. I just wanted to share experiences to show my oppinion was based on experience. I was happy with kambark cypress but cant find the stuff anywhere so i use newspaper stock.

I've used aspen for years, it's perfect. I was pleasantly surprised recently to find that Petco is now making their own brand of aspen that is way less dusty than the last brand they used to stock. It's fluffier and smells better too. My whole snake room smells great now.

I also don't like the way such beautiful snakes look on plain, cheap newspaper. Just doesn't make sense to me.

It was in my snake not yours, proven with u/s and xray. The same can be said for all wood based substrates.

@kitedemon sorry i misread. And as far as pretty snakes lookin bad on so called cheap paper, its not about look its about whats good for the animal. With paper you dont have the issues you have with organic substrates. I have no problem putting my high end stuff on paper. I do have an issue with putting them on something that can kill them

I think my animals do better on a wood substrate than paper

They move around, nestle in, and seem more content

Thats just me

My point is simply nothing is with out issues, most papers have some amount of phenols from the paper production only high end paper is often marked phenol free (linen papers) Phenols are why cedar is bad for you it is high in phenol. (all wood products have it to some degree) Some paper has more of less batch to batch.

Everyone has to use something and it is a case of less bad, not 'safe' I don't believe aspen to be a poor bedding nor do I cyprus, my experience with it was bad and I'll not use any wood chip substrate again. I am not going to say it will kill your snakes sorry lab but it feels melodramatic. I agree Aspen has potential issues but so does everything else.

I'm currently using the Uline Indented Kraft Paper - do I need to worry about these "phenols" that are being mentioned??

I belive this paper was recommended on this site - which is why I started ordering it - its not cheap but I like the thickness of it.

Please advise if I need to switch again.

Thanks.

No it is unlikely to be an issue.

I don't believe in blanket statements, there are pros and cons to everything saying this is bad or that is is fine, that is opinion. The fact is nothing anywhere is with out some risk. I don't believe the risk involved with kraft paper is high nor do I believe the risk of Aspen is high, or any other commonly used substrates. Some have more issues than others like pine. I have decided for my self that kiln dried pine offers a relatedly low risk but raw pine is quite high. To my mind there would always be a question of is this kiln dried or not and that question makes it an unacceptable risk. I believe there are issues with Aspen but they do not pose significant risks, the same can be said for papers and coconut products. None have significant risks, it is opinion of how much and how serious that risk is.

If there were serious risk no one would suggest using it like cedar I have never seen anyone suggest it for keeping snakes on. There is significant risks with it the rest have much debate the fact there is debate suggests the risks are not massive ones. Other wise it would be clear and there would be many many problems associated with it.

Thanks a lot for everyones input on this husbandry issue. It's good to know about the various risks associated with substrates.

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Originally Posted by Tree

I have been using the coconut husk and so far it rocks :gj:

It holds humidity really well, easy to clean, looks good, my BP likes it, it smells good, no mites, and no dust.

I have heard that its hard to find in some places, But I found it so I am using it.

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Woahhh, hey. My vet told me that the oils from that stuff totally throws off their moisture and can be harmful, and clog up their anal passages as well as get into their nasal passages and throat. I would do some more research on that before continuing to use it... Personally, I find that newspaper works wonderfully.

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Originally Posted by Brooke360

Woahhh, hey. My vet told me that the oils from that stuff totally throws off their moisture and can be harmful, and clog up their anal passages as well as get into their nasal passages and throat. I would do some more research on that before continuing to use it... Personally, I find that newspaper works wonderfully.

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Plenty of people here use it without issue. I use a mixture of substrates that includes Eco Earth in several of my cages. Until just recently I used Eco Earth alone in my gtp cage and hoggy tank where she burrows all through it without issue.

As for the anal passages it sounds as if your vet was referring to an impaction which can happen with many substrates if to much is eaten.

And as for clogging the nostrils I had a big problem with that using some cypress mulch from Lowes. It was given to me but as she rooted around it clogged her nostrils so I threw it out. Using Forest Floor I never had the issue add its much cleaner, uniform, and less dusty.

Being these post were from 2011 I think that is plenty of time to consider it a good test. Now we just need Tree to ring in.

[QUOTE=snake lab;1649659] Now yes cypress is messy but any organic substrate will get in the water. But cypress is a wood that grows in swamps. It doesnt mold like aspen or pine."

I'm not very experienced but I have had cypress mulch mold. And yes I was cleaning it ;)

So kiln dried pine is ok? I had been using cyprus mulch but found it would start to grow mold because it was so damp. I tried pine shavings (kiln dried) because it really soaks up the waste and I have it around for my chickens already. THEN read pine is bad so I just put them on newspaper while I search for something better.

Has anyone tried recycled paper pellets like for cat/animal litter?

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

No it is unlikely to be an issue.

I don't believe in blanket statements, there are pros and cons to everything saying this is bad or that is is fine, that is opinion. The fact is nothing anywhere is with out some risk. I don't believe the risk involved with kraft paper is high nor do I believe the risk of Aspen is high, or any other commonly used substrates. Some have more issues than others like pine. I have decided for my self that kiln dried pine offers a relatedly low risk but raw pine is quite high. To my mind there would always be a question of is this kiln dried or not and that question makes it an unacceptable risk. I believe there are issues with Aspen but they do not pose significant risks, the same can be said for papers and coconut products. None have significant risks, it is opinion of how much and how serious that risk is.

If there were serious risk no one would suggest using it like cedar I have never seen anyone suggest it for keeping snakes on. There is significant risks with it the rest have much debate the fact there is debate suggests the risks are not massive ones. Other wise it would be clear and there would be many many problems associated with it.

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Originally Posted by KodiakFox

So kiln dried pine is ok? I had been using cyprus mulch but found it would start to grow mold because it was so damp. I tried pine shavings (kiln dried) because it really soaks up the waste and I have it around for my chickens already. THEN read pine is bad so I just put them on newspaper while I search for something better.

Has anyone tried recycled paper pellets like for cat/animal litter?

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Last activity 05-02-2015, hence why it is always referable to start a new thread rather than bump a 5 years old one ;)

Because nobody sees it? 😟

I use reptichip. Spot cleans easy, holds humidity, looks good, no mold, no odor, change it about every 3 months. Haven't had any issues with it. Just mist it while in shed and no problems.

Hm and now to find it in canada.