The (Drama FREE) Desert Thread. A different Perspective.

After reading the Bush-League thread, (Yes all 20 pages) I think it would be good to offer a different perspective on the Desert subject:

First, it's awesome to see a hobby form a community such as this one. It's amazing to me that people who are basically "competing" against one another, for business, are willing to help share information to help move the hobby in a better direction for the future. THAT IS COOL. :D

Second, it's even more awesome to see those people share the information they have, and basically use the Scientific Method we all learned in grade school to form theories and test them. Where else are you going to see that? I haven't seen that before from any other type of hobby community, and we all share a unique thing.

Third, I think everyone needs to take a step back and look at it this way: We are all dealing with GENETICS. They are not cut and dry. Just because one way works with one set of snakes, doesn't mean that's how it works with others. Just because the outside of the snake may vary, doesn't mean that they don't have other slight changes going on in their genes. I mean we all know about Spiders and the "wobble", Carmels and the "Kinks", and whatever other morphs may have problems.

Genetics are very finicky and we should all know that. Just look at the odds when breeding two different morphs together. You don't always get what you expect, do you? What the breeders are doing would take thousands of years to happen in the wild, if at all. I'm grateful that we even have breeders who have the patience to help push this hobby forward even further. The fact that you have people who don't have degrees in advanced molecular biology, can figure out that maybe all that's needed to produce viable eggs is a temperature change is crazy awesome. :rofl: :)

My whole point of this thread, is that I'm all for finding out if Desert Females can lay viable clutches of eggs. However I don't think that "Stirring the Pot" is the right way to do it. Accusing big time breeders who have their name and reputation on the line, of selling to people knowing an animal won't breed is not only unfair to them, but also harming the community. This whole community is built on trust and honesty. There's a reason for the BOI forums, and that's to weed out the people who don't want to play be the unspoken rules and help this community grow.



Take this thread how you want, but this community as a whole is simply put "AMAZING". Just my :2cent:

Also, please leave the drama out of this thread. If you are coming in here to start it, please think before you hit the "Reply" button. This is a post to thank everyone who is patient and who want to contribute to the community in a positive manner. ;) :D

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Originally Posted by The Hedgehog

My whole point of this thread, is that I'm all for finding out if Desert Females can lay viable clutches of eggs. However I don't think that "Stirring the Pot" is the right way to do it. Accusing big time breeders who have their name and reputation on the line, of selling to people knowing an animal won't breed is not only unfair to them, but also harming the community. This whole community is built on trust and honesty. There's a reason for the BOI forums, and that's to weed out the people who don't want to play be the unspoken rules and help this community grow.

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Thank you so much! I couldn't agree more. Especially with this point here. None of these people have come into this gleefully rubbing their palms and grinning maniacally with a plan to knowingly breed a generation of sterile females and sell them at ridiculous prices. Those business people who have proven their character over the years are sweating bullets over this issue and want it resolved as much as the rest of us.

I can totally understand concerns about people knowingly selling females as viable future breeders when they may not be.....but to be so cynical and angry as to assume (and as much as declare) everyone who has ever made money off a desert project has and is currently doing so is not only foolish, it's destructive.

I really really hope that there is a solution as easy as lowering temps or waiting an extra year or two before breeding. Deserts are amazing and I expect that the super would be... super :P

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Originally Posted by JLC

Thank you so much! I couldn't agree more. Especially with this point here. None of these people have come into this gleefully rubbing their palms and grinning maniacally with a plan to knowingly breed a generation of sterile females and sell them at ridiculous prices. Those business people who have proven their character over the years are sweating bullets over this issue and want it resolved as much as the rest of us.

I can totally understand concerns about people knowingly selling females as viable future breeders when they may not be.....but to be so cynical and angry as to assume (and as much as declare) everyone who has ever made money off a desert project has and is currently doing so is not only foolish, it's destructive.

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Exactly. I don't know what it was that made me post this, but I got upset that so many people don't seem to have patience anymore. This is a hobby that if you want to make money or not, you have to be patient either way. I hate seeing when people get so upset because they can't breed "X" snake to "X" snake because it's not up to size, or some other issue. That's genetics, and that's what you have to deal with.

Most of the big time breeders seem to do it because it's what they love. I mean, look at Ralph Davis' birthing records. You can see in his writing how excited he gets when certain clutches hatch and he gets something cool or new. That's why I like this hobby more and more, is because of people like him who do it because they love it, not because they just want to make money.

Again, that's why we try our best to look out for each other and weed out scumbags who are in this for the wrong reason. ;)

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Originally Posted by The Hedgehog

That's why I like this hobby more and more, is because of people like him who do it because they love it, not because they just want to make money.

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I could not agree more. And I think that there needs to be that basic love for the animals andthe hobby to really make it an enjoyable experience. Also as puppy mills show us most of the time if the only interest is in making money the animals generally suffer, which I feel is completely wrong. Awesome Post :D

Well My buddy Jas said something about keeping his Female Desert at 85F no hot side no cool side.

Shall see what goes on as his female came from Sloan Reptiles.

But to have a gene that requires all kinds of effort just to get good eggs isnt worth the money. Keep female prices 85% below males till this is figured out. Maybe this dramatic price drop on females will get the people breeding them to speak out. And actually provide evidence that females dont all slug out, But i have my doubts this will ever happens.

Personally I doubt many breeders would be intentionally selling sterile females. Aside from that, the price on a female desert is whatever the seller wants for it. If you want to buy a desert female for $10K and believe she won't be sterile, then you could be one of the few in two years produceing whatever the super form is... or combos with your female. Or you could bum out and it might be sterile.

If you think $10K is too much, then don't buy one. If it's proven that desert females are sterile, then in a couple years, they'll be basically worthless and might be sold for pet prices($100-200 maybe?) and you can snap up one to stare at because they're awesome cool colors.

If a breeder guarantees that HIS desert female will produce eggs, and you buy it... then you can go back and get whatever restitution when/if it doesn't produce. Otherwise, you're taking your chances with a fairly new morph just like everyone else. NERD thought there would be a "super" form of spider when they first got spider balls in, and they turned out to be wrong. So why assume that all the breeders who are trying to work with desert are deliberately concealing information, just because we aren't being told what we'd like?

Also, there is not a declaration that all breeders must give up information on their breeding projects. It's super wonderful that most breeders are extremely candid about what they are breeding and what the genetics of any given morph does/should do/is doing. But it's not as if that's required by law. Even Ralph Davis has his "Classified" projects that he doesn't inform us about, right? And he's one of the best about talking about what morphs do what, and has always seemed very honest about issues(kinking in caramels for instance).

Getting all worked up over what a single fairly new morph is or is not capable of at this time is a bit silly. If most desert females turn out to be sterile, then that'll be sad, but ball genetics is not some ironclad guarentee that you'll get what you want from breeding it later on.

I saw that Robyn from SYR said he knows of a couple breeders who have gotten reliable clutches from their desert females. As far as I'm concerned, at least some desert females are not sterile, since I trust Robyn to be telling the truth as he knows it.

**the $10K price was a random amount chosen for no particular reason, no guarentee of desert females being available for $10K or bringing $10K is being implied. Contents may have settled in shipping but are measured by weight, not volume.

So...I was "told" by a source that I have no reason to not believe, that there have been viable clutches from female deserts. Maybe not many of them but some. So like I've also heard with carmels, maybe it's just issues with temp size or whatever. I remember having balls back in like 91 and you were happy if they ate! If your going to spend enough on a snake that you could have bought a classic car, maybe you should have gotten a contract from the breeder or spent the money on lotery tickets. Without the experience of these larger breeders that they have been sharing with us people wouldn't have a clue about most of this.

All Big Gunns can say to people who posted on this thread is "ignorance is bliss".

Hope that's drama free enough for you.:D

Your vague/cryptic nonsense is getting a bit tiresome. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by spitzu

Your vague/cryptic nonsense is getting a bit tiresome. :rolleyes:

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So is the whining about it.:P

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Originally Posted by Big Gunns

All Big Gunns can say to people who posted on this thread is "ignorance is bliss".

Hope that's drama free enough for you.:D

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NO, it's not. You are purposely stirring a pot on a conversation that cannot be proven one way or another yet. I don't appreciate it, and I'm sure that lots of other people, including the big time breeders don't appreciate it. You are bringing negativity to the community, and it's getting old, QUICKLY.

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Originally Posted by spitzu

Your vague/cryptic nonsense is getting a bit tiresome. :rolleyes:

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THIS.

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Originally Posted by Big Gunns

So is the whining about it.:P

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Again, with the drama in my thread. Either post like a man, in first person, not hiding behind your computer screen, or don't post at all. The choice is yours, but pick one and only one.

I, like many will wait for a few more seasons before I base a verdict. Again, this project is only 10 years old or so. That's still WAY too early to make any calls. How many breeders have snakes that they've been working on for a long time with very little results? Exactly.

I'm tired of watching you stir the pot on conversations just to get a rise out of people. It is very tiresome.

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Originally Posted by The Hedgehog

NO, it's not. You are purposely stirring a pot on a conversation that cannot be proven one way or another yet. I don't appreciate it, and I'm sure that lots of other people, including the big time breeders don't appreciate it. You are bringing negativity to the community, and it's getting old, QUICKLY.

THIS.


Again, with the drama in my thread. Either post like a man, in first person, not hiding behind your computer screen, or don't post at all. The choice is yours, but pick one and only one.

I, like many will wait for a few more seasons before I base a verdict. Again, this project is only 10 years old or so. That's still WAY too early to make any calls. How many breeders have snakes that they've been working on for a long time with very little results? Exactly.

I'm tired of watching you stir the pot on conversations just to get a rise out of people. It is very tiresome.

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"Big time breeders"???***clears throat*****.... "Can't be proven one way or the other"????? Says who? "10 years" is not enough???? Clearly you have no idea about just about anything when it comes to this Hedgy. No worries though. Big Gunns is here to help the leeetle people like yourself. :D

Why "watch" then? There is an ignore feature on the forum. It would be a shame to ignore such brilliance, but if you must BG understands. What was that saying Big Gunns has about arrogance?;)

Big Gunns is still blown away by your statement that 10 years is not enough. That's a joke right????:confused:

Big Gunns can only say this one way Hedge. On this topic you're absolutely clueless. Sorry if that offends you...really...Big Gunns really doesn't like to offend his future fans, but it's true.

"You're gonna hate Big Gunns till you love him".:D

The 'ignore' feature is really cool.

No matter what neil says, no matter how many words he uses, it comes down to two phrases.

1) Look at me, look at me!!!
2) I know something you don't but I'm not telling what it is.

You don't have to actually READ anything he writes, it's a truism.

The more of you who put him on ignore, the more of you who will no longer waste time better spent popping asspimples and the more of you who will not get sucked into his ego vacuum.

When was the last time he actually contributed to anything in a positive way?

Doubtless whatever kiddie site he's been on has now grown bored with his drama so he's looking for validation here.

Animals are a crap shoot. When you shoot craps for money, you take risks. Such is life.

If I recall Ralph was breeding kinked caramel males at one point. Who's to say what else he'd do, or not for that matter, that some would not agree with.

Here's a little factoid about things that generate money. People lie. They leave facts out. I neither know nor care if anyone has in this project or any other, it's moot. It happens is all that's important.

Sure there are trustworthy honest people out there. And as with all coins, there are others who are not. The edge of the coin is those who don't know. Keep flipping that coin and sooner or later you'll come in contact with representative from all three factions. It happens.

To think that everyone will tell everything about anything is ..... naive, veritably foolhardy.

If you can afford to take the chance and want to, go for it. If you can't, don't. I think it's really as simple as that.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

The 'ignore' feature is really cool.

No matter what neil says, no matter how many words he uses, it comes down to two phrases.

1) Look at me, look at me!!!
2) I know something you don't but I'm not telling what it is.

You don't have to actually READ anything he writes, it's a truism.

The more of you who put him on ignore, the more of you who will no longer waste time better spent popping asspimples and the more of you who will not get sucked into his ego vacuum.

When was the last time he actually contributed to anything in a positive way?

Doubtless whatever kiddie site he's been on has now grown bored with his drama so he's looking for validation here.

Animals are a crap shoot. When you shoot craps for money, you take risks. Such is life.

If I recall Ralph was breeding kinked caramel males at one point. Who's to say what else he'd do, or not for that matter, that some would not agree with.

Here's a little factoid about things that generate money. People lie. They leave facts out. I neither know nor care if anyone has in this project or any other, it's moot. It happens is all that's important.

Sure there are trustworthy honest people out there. And as with all coins, there are others who are not. The edge of the coin is those who don't know. Keep flipping that coin and sooner or later you'll come in contact with representative from all three factions. It happens.

To think that everyone will tell everything about anything is ..... naive, veritably foolhardy.

If you can afford to take the chance and want to, go for it. If you can't, don't. I think it's really as simple as that.

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Look at me!!!!! Look at me!!!!!!!:D

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Originally Posted by Big Gunns

"Big time breeders"???***clears throat*****.... "Can't be proven one way or the other"????? Says who? "10 years" is not enough???? Clearly you have no idea about just about anything when it comes to this Hedgy. No worries though. Big Gunns is here to help the leeetle people like yourself. :D

Why "watch" then? There is an ignore feature on the forum. It would be a shame to ignore such brilliance, but if you must BG understands. What was that saying Big Gunns has about arrogance?;)

Big Gunns is still blown away by your statement that 10 years is not enough. That's a joke right????:confused:

Big Gunns can only say this one way Hedge. On this topic you're absolutely clueless. Sorry if that offends you...really...Big Gunns really doesn't like to offend his future fans, but it's true.

"You're gonna hate Big Gunns till you love him".:D

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No, 10 years is not enough. It's genetics. Plain and simple. Maybe if YOU understood that, then you'd take a step back and look just how much of a fool you are acting like. If you think you are honestly contributing to the community in a positive manner, please then prove us all wrong right now. I'll say it again, "We are doing in just a few years what would take nature thousands of years, if not longer to do". 10 years is nothing but a grain of sand in the folds of time.

Otherwise you're a negative mark, a blemish, a zit, or a wart on this community. This is nearly the same crap you pulled with the dolphins in Japan. Keep people hanging on to your every word and post because you have no friends in real life. This forum and others like it, along with the drama you bring to the table are all you have. At the end of the day, it's pathetic.

I know PLENTY on snakes and ball-pythons. Just because I'm not breeding doesn't make me uneducated about the subject. In fact, if anyone is being ignorant and arrogant, it's YOU. How much do you know about me? That's right, you don't know anything, and I wouldn't expect you to. However, I'm not the guy who hides behind a screen-name and uses 3rd person conversation on a forum. I'm not a guy who hides at expos and won't show his face on a forum to keep up this BS facade you have going.

I will never "love Big Gunns". In fact, I will continue to look at you like the troll you are, until you start posting like a normal human being, and actually provide evidence of the claims you make. Until then, everything you say will fall on deaf ears from me.

Have a nice day.

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Originally Posted by The Hedgehog

No, 10 years is not enough. It's genetics. Plain and simple. Maybe if YOU understood that, then you'd take a step back and look just how much of a fool you are acting like. If you think you are honestly contributing to the community in a positive manner, please then prove us all wrong right now. I'll say it again, "We are doing in just a few years what would take nature thousands of years, if not longer to do". 10 years is nothing but a grain of sand in the folds of time.

Otherwise you're a negative mark, a blemish, a zit, or a wart on this community. This is nearly the same crap you pulled with the dolphins in Japan. Keep people hanging on to your every word and post because you have no friends in real life. This forum and others like it, along with the drama you bring to the table are all you have. At the end of the day, it's pathetic.

I know PLENTY on snakes and ball-pythons. Just because I'm not breeding doesn't make me uneducated about the subject. In fact, if anyone is being ignorant and arrogant, it's YOU. How much do you know about me? That's right, you don't know anything, and I wouldn't expect you to. However, I'm not the guy who hides behind a screen-name and uses 3rd person conversation on a forum. I'm not a guy who hides at expos and won't show his face on a forum to keep up this BS facade you have going.

I will never "love Big Gunns". In fact, I will continue to look at you like the troll you are, until you start posting like a normal human being, and actually provide evidence of the claims you make. Until then, everything you say will fall on deaf ears from me.

Have a nice day.

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:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: Big Gunns would love to know how you "hide at expos". Big Gunns has been trying to figure that one out for years now considering he's been to hundreds.

This statement by you says it all Hedge. "Just because I'm not breeding doesn't make me uneducated about the subject.

Unfortunately for you it sure does make you "uneducated" about this. Big Gunns has no idea why you can't see that.:confused::confused:

As far as Big Gunns having "no friends". :tears::tears::tears::tears: WAHHHHHH You meanie.....you really like to rub it in don't yah?:tears::tears:

You did get one thing right though. There is NOBODY more "arrogant" than Big Gunns.....and we all know how much that bothers the weak. :P:P

To be honest I am curious and would love the project to work out, but I am still not holding out too much hope for it. I think the reasons females are being sold at such high is because breeders truly believe the project will work out even if they don't have the proof themselves. Whether that's blind faith or they know something they aren't telling us, I don't know. I personally wouldn't sell females right now(Honestly with a morph like this even without problems, I'd keep every female I got so I could make more of these guys. Then with the problems I'd still keep them to see where in price these guys are gonna go and if any of them will lay healthy eggs)

I've always felt that ball pythons need a much greater temperature gradient than we often give them. It makes sense that certain morphs(aka mutations) would be more sensitive than the hardy normal, it's the same with many animals. Think about specifically bred cats and dogs, even with careful breeding certain traits just lead to sensitive stomachs-doesn't mean they have special needs normal cats wouldn't, but they are less able to accept the flaws in our own husbandry(bad cat food, etc).. My ball python used to be in a 55 gallon tank with tons of hides and a huge heat gradient. It was a lot of work keeping up the humidity and heat, but I found that maru used quite a bit of the tank. He would travel from hide to hide and enjoy the heat after a nice meal and sometimes cool off on the other end. He ate well and everything seemed to work great. We ended up having to move him into a tub because of reorginizing the house, and he took a while to get used to the situation. He's fine in it now, though even to this day he hugs the cold side far more often than the warm side, but I would enjoy one day giving him a bigger enclosure again, but one that was actually BUILT and holds in humidity rather than a tank! But that's just me. I don't have many animals, so I can afford to spoil them a bit more. And if he never ends up using the cooler end of the enclosure, that's okay, it will still look nice. He'll have identical safe hides all over where he can choose his comfort level :)

But anyway, the point is I think just like how the spider gene is sensitive to stress/excitement (wobble) and shows it's stress more than a ball python normal who experiences the same amount of stress, the desert possibly is a mix of genes that just happens to make the snake less tolerant of bad situations(Like crowntail bettas are NOT very tolerant to hard water, simply how the genes work out) meaning if you want deserts you gotta keep them in PERFECT conditions! But it could just be these specific animals, who knows!

OR..it could be infertile/really really close to infertile like some of the hybrid species(SO many dead clutches for one or two successful hatches..)

I feel it could end up being the latter--yes fertile, but you'll end up with a lot of slugs before you get eggs. It feels like we are getting some successes but a lot of failures, but things could always change.

I would be very happy to see deserts work out, I love them! But if they don't, I won't be too surprised, sadly. If they do.. :bow: bring on the deserts!


It is just crazy to see so many desert pairings happening with no clutch results. I see it on here, facebook, and other herp sites. The threads just die off about a week before the snake is supposed to lay, and suddenly they are never mentioned again! :(

Unfortunately that's the risk you take when working with genetics. If this rumor is true, a lot of people will have wasted a lot of money. Not like that's the first time this has happened though! Plenty of unique snakes have been imported for incredibly high prices, only to find out it isn't genetic or died on the way over. Awful, but that's what happens. It's a new gene, these people could possibly make thousands off of these animals if it works out, or they might have wasted that money on females who won't breed. We'll see how the lottery turns out.


As of what I have seen so far I say it isn't gonna happen. If someone proves me wrong later on, HUGE congrats!! Til then, I'll just watch the drama unfold ;)

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Originally Posted by Big Gunns

Look at me!!!!! Look at me!!!!!!!:D

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OMG!!!! Sorry fans.

Look at Big Gunns!!!!! Look at Big Gunns!!!!! That will never happen again. :D

"Drama free thread". Maybe we should go back and see just who started the drama on this thread before we blame Big Gunns. Twas not the magnificent one.:D

I'm going to have to disagree to the statement of "10 yrs isn't long enough"
for viable clutches, I think 10yrs is plenty long, or am I missing something?

Too funny, this is good stuff...now what was this thread about?

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Originally Posted by llovelace

I'm going to have to disagree to the statement of "10 yrs isn't long enough"
for viable clutches, I think 10yrs is plenty long, or am I missing something?

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i agree,

I also agree on the ten year thing, sure it might not be long compared to nature--but this is a captive environment, we know who is breeding to what, we control the temps, we try to create the perfect set up for them to breed. We know how to tell if they are ovulating, all that stuff.. Yeah we struggled getting bps to breed when we first started--but these ARE still ball pythons, so unless it really is a morph with specific sensitivities/problems the breeding should really be the same. Plus, I am seeing a LOT of people breeding these guys, and I know a lot of the girls are getting gravid, it's just when it comes time for the eggs that it is not mentioned anymore. Which I understand, if the clutch did fail, good lord how depressing! That is an expensive and sad batch of duds with how excited you'd be just to have a female become gravid!

With how many times I know people have been breeding them, you'd think you'd hear more by now, unless everyone is having horrific luck for some reason.


Again, I'd love for someone to prove me wrong. Of course if they are a problem/infertile animal I could probably actually afford a female one day :P just playing!

10 years...

So year 1 the original desert.. a year to raise him...maybe two to viable breeding..
year 3 to breed and get eggs... any females? Maybe no females... breed next year...
year 4 to breed and get some females.. raise those two-three years to size to breed them...
year 6-7 to breed first females... get no good clutchs?
That's maybe 7 years to the first efforts..(possibly, I'm not on the inside of the desert projects)

So ten years is not that long when you might need to take 2-3 years to raise a stubborn feeder to size. Add in bad odds, bad clutches, missed seasons...

Ten years is about right to start saying "Where's the female deserts on clutchs of viable eggs?" It's not time to write off the entire morph, in my opinion.

There were SEVERAL adult animals (females) from the original males. Many females are 5 yrs are older. We have already had several slug out at 2-3 yrs of age. These were raised up by different people then Stan and Pete. Heck it didn't take 10 yrs to prove out many recessive morphs. I hope they prove out and or it's an easy fix (like temp).

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

10 years...

So year 1 the original desert.. a year to raise him...maybe two to viable breeding..
year 3 to breed and get eggs... any females? Maybe no females... breed next year...
year 4 to breed and get some females.. raise those two-three years to size to breed them...
year 6-7 to breed first females... get no good clutchs?
That's maybe 7 years to the first efforts..(possibly, I'm not on the inside of the desert projects)

So ten years is not that long when you might need to take 2-3 years to raise a stubborn feeder to size. Add in bad odds, bad clutches, missed seasons...

Ten years is about right to start saying "Where's the female deserts on clutchs of viable eggs?" It's not time to write off the entire morph, in my opinion.

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Although thats fairly acurate at what would be going on. But the thing you missed, is these breeders dont work in 1's. Especially when it comes to making new morphs. I imagine the first desert was paired with multiple females, the very first year he was ready to breed.

So theres 3 years between your 7th year and the 10 year mark we are at right?
Anything produced before that 7th year, should be more then good to go, male or female. Assuming people hold some males and females back, They should have been able to hit a super or even get some clutches from a desert female. There are quite a few deserts out there... Its not like we are lacking in that deparment, its the info that follows.

My question is if they have "been around" for 10 years how come no one was marketing them until just a few years ago?

Because unlike let's say a pastel, they have not been in many collections and they haven't been bred like other morphs for the last 10 years thats why.

Show me a 10 year old pic of a desert:confused: Bet you cant find one;)

You will find a lot of other 10 year old morph pics because people have been working and proving albinos, pieds, pastels, spiders, etc... for a while but 10 years of desert projects doesn't seem realistic. Don't think you would have seen a desert 10 years ago in Daytona, I didn't see one 4, 5 and 6 years ago let alone 10!

NERD's "desert ghost" is a seperate morph, right?

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Originally Posted by West Coast Jungle

My question is if they have "been around" for 10 years how come no one was marketing them until just a few years ago?

Because unlike let's say a pastel, they have not been in many collections and they haven't been bred like other morphs for the last 10 years thats why.

Show me a 10 year old pic of a desert:confused: Bet you cant find one;)

You will find a lot of other 10 year old morph pics because people have been working and proving albinos, pieds, pastels, spiders, etc... for a while but 10 years of desert projects doesn't seem realistic. Don't think you would have seen a desert 10 years ago in Daytona, I didn't see one 4, 5 and 6 years ago let alone 10!

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Big Gunns knows a morph that was first produced 3 years ago. This is the first year a couple females are big enough to breed. That's 3 years and it's recessive. That's at least a one year difference...but probably more like 2 in years to prove out a morph and get females to produce. 10 years in an eternity in this business if you're trying to make money.

By the way Raul. It's BG's understanding that you're in the Desert project right? ;) We'll talk in Cali. :gj:

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Originally Posted by West Coast Jungle

My question is if they have "been around" for 10 years how come no one was marketing them until just a few years ago?

Because unlike let's say a pastel, they have not been in many collections and they haven't been bred like other morphs for the last 10 years thats why.

Show me a 10 year old pic of a desert:confused: Bet you cant find one;)

You will find a lot of other 10 year old morph pics because people have been working and proving albinos, pieds, pastels, spiders, etc... for a while but 10 years of desert projects doesn't seem realistic. Don't think you would have seen a desert 10 years ago in Daytona, I didn't see one 4, 5 and 6 years ago let alone 10!

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You are implying stan and pete's animals aren't as old as they say they are? that this didnt start in 2001?

You would not have seen a desert in daytona 10 years ago. That was the year they were imported.

So why do you think they have to be at shows to exist? They dont hit the market until all of the big ball players have got to their pickin's if you know what I mean.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

NERD's "desert ghost" is a seperate morph, right?

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If you don't know that you probably should not be commenting on this thread.;):D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Big Gunns

If you don't know that you probably should not be commenting on this thread.;):D

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LOL, you kill me man!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Big Gunns

If you don't know that you probably should not be commenting on this thread.;):D

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Neil, you shouldn't be wasting board space with your nonsense.

Go ahead and continue to tell people where they are allowed to comment within public forums...

if you have a female desert that's breeding size, what would you breed it to being that a super hasn't been produced yet? so far I'm seeing everyone that's throwing all slugs is from a desert x desert breeding. if I had a desert female to size, I would want to be the first to say that I produced the super. so desert x desert might be a different set of rules to get viable eggs over what we now know about breeding. we might also learn something from this breeding that might help with some of the other breedings that produce some bad results. this is a hobby and isn't set in stone. and it's also possible that desert females might have a better chance of laying viable eggs breeding to something other than a male desert. the desert makes some great combos and hopefully something will work out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

Neil, you shouldn't be wasting board space with your nonsense.

Go ahead and continue to tell people where they are allowed to comment within public forums...

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Dude, seriously, USE the ignore feature.

Its understandable that some might be upset about buying this expensive snake and now finding out that theres a possibility that they cant produce anything from it. But its no ones fault. Its not like all these breeders knew that nothing could come from it. Who knows the females might not be able to breed until 10 years of age. we dont know yet. Or it could be like a mule. Only time will tell.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

Neil, you shouldn't be wasting board space with your nonsense.

Go ahead and continue to tell people where they are allowed to comment within public forums...

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Big Gunns has some valuable advice for you buddy. Stop "wasting" time rooting for the Chiefs.:P:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by don15681

if you have a female desert that's breeding size, what would you breed it to being that a super hasn't been produced yet? so far I'm seeing everyone that's throwing all slugs is from a desert x desert breeding. if I had a desert female to size, I would want to be the first to say that I produced the super. so desert x desert might be a different set of rules to get viable eggs over what we now know about breeding. we might also learn something from this breeding that might help with some of the other breedings that produce some bad results. this is a hobby and isn't set in stone. and it's also possible that desert females might have a better chance of laying viable eggs breeding to something other than a male desert. the desert makes some great combos and hopefully something will work out.

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Most people actually have not bred them to a Desert male.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Dude, seriously, USE the ignore feature.

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Yes...."seriously"....we can all see how well this "ignore feature" works for Willy.:D

Please refrain from calling names. The post has been deleted since name-calling was its ONLY purpose and content...as well as the response. Like or dislike...agree or disagree....but don't resort to calling names or more infractions will be given out.

Thank you.

My apologies to BG and the board.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CCfive

My apologies to BG and the board.

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You will eventually see; these infractions are often coupled with threads such as this one which feeds a certain common denominator...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JLC

Please refrain from calling names. The post has been deleted since name-calling was its ONLY purpose and content...as well as the response. Like or dislike...agree or disagree....but don't resort to calling names or more infractions will be given out.

Thank you.

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Come on Judy. You know Big Gunns lives for the insults. You're spoiling all his fun.....and all his fans can't see the master at work. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CCfive

My apologies to BG and the board.

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Apology accepted, but no apology needed. BG was not offended at all. :gj:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

You will eventually see; these infractions are often coupled with threads such as this one which feeds a certain common denominator...

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"common denominator"......low self esteem, jealousy, and weakness.;):D Oh yeah.....forgot sanity. :rofl:

I love this hobby! I love the fact that there are plenty of "unknowns". Do desert girls lay? who knows... time will tell. I can only tell you that I will play my part and have fun while Im doing it. BTW I do own a desert :)

This thread, and a couple others like it are being locked. The reason for this is because these threads are leading to some very serious allegations being alluded to without any shred of substantive evidence. BP.net will not be party to libel.

The administrators of BP.net are not afraid to discuss what could be some high-dollar issues regarding the breeding and marketing potential of certain morphs, and new threads will be started to continue the discussion. These threads will NOT be places for conspiracy innuendos or back-handed comments about any individual or business. They are NOT venues for "calling out" anyone.

If a member of this site has a SPECIFIC charge to bring against a specific individual or business, this must be done properly in the Inquiry Forum. Full names must be disclosed and all known evidence laid out thoroughly so the issue may be properly addressed, rebutted and defended.

We will no longer tolerate these sorts of insinuations an innuendos and doing so may earn very serious infraction points.