Dawn mite treatment

Giving Jackson the Dawn mite treatment after dinner tonight. How do I do it? Just a drop? swimmy style or just high enough to cover his body? closed container? (waiting for my PAM, btw, not just trying to home remedy...) I can see the little bugs on him now, and it's just miserable! :mad: I HATE them!
Also, I can still see a big lump in his belly from his meal on Friday. Do you think he's having trouble digesting form being in his water dish? Should I wait to treat until the lump is no longer visible? Thanks sooo much, yall are all such a blessing! It's wonderful to have such easily acsessible experienced advice.

Why not just get some equate bedding spay? It's about 3 dollars and works great. Mites die almost immediately. Use it just like you would use PAM.

The equate stuff is not safe. There is another thread on here explaining why.

I have used equate in a pinch, with no ill effects to the animal. When preparing to soak your animal, just add 2-3 drops of the dawn, let it soak 30 minutes.

I say just use the PAM. I used it with a pretty tough mite problem and it was gone just like that. No second treatment or anything. It also goes a VERY long way, I still have a full bottle so I'm guessing it'll last years. While I waited on my PAM to get here I just put arnold in the tub to drown them. I didn't use any Dawn or anything, I don't think it does anything except drown the mites.

Ummmm..

Here is the thread on why we use PAM and NOT lice treatments.
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...hlight=provent

Dawn (or almost any other soap) is a remedy to use in conjunction with your chosen method for treating mites. You must treat the snake, yes, but you must also treat the cage, the cage furniture (hides, water bowls, etc), as well the area around the cage, in addition to any other snakes/cages in the vicinity.

Mites can travel very quickly - up to 50 feet in an hour, so this is the "space" you need to think in terms of when treating them. Using a spray like Provent-A-Mite for treating the cage & surroundings works well. You should also vacuum the room thoroughly to get any wanderers. Wash hides & water bowls in a solution of hot water (110 degrees+) & bleach, to a 10% dilution.

Back to the Dawn, the purpose of using this is to break the surface tension of the water so that mites drown much faster. In plain, untreated water, it is much easier for mites to cling to a soaking snake, to burrow under a scale & escape from drowning. You only needs a couple of teaspoons of whatever you choose to use - just enough to make the water somewhat sudsy, but it doesn't need to have tons & tons of bubbles. The water in which you soak your snake doesn't need to be deep - one-third to one-half way up the animal's sides is sufficient. You should leave your snake soaking for several hours, even over night, so you definitely don't want to make him swim. Also, ensure that the water is warm (80-82 degrees is fine) and will remain so for the duration of the time you are soaking him. Additionally, take care that your snake is already well-hydrated prior to soaking him in a mix of soapy water, so that he isn't prone to ingesting it. If he does, it shouldn't hurt him, but could make him very bloated/gassy for a while. Since mites can severely dehydrate a snake, you may want to consider soaking him in plain water for a couple of hours so he has a chance to hydrate, prior to adding the soap.

Keep in mind that the life cycle of the mite is approximately 20-40 days. I recommend treating for a minimum of 90 days to ensure that all the mites are eradicated from your collection. They are quite adept at sneaking back, especially after just one treatment, so staying the distance & being vigilant about treatment is extremely necessary.

Good luck!

K~

ok, just to clarify- I am NOT going to use lice treatment on my REPTILE, that just doesn't sound quite right. At the recommendation of several people on this site I am going to use the Dawn treatment for temporary relief until the PAM gets here, my poor bud is visibly irritated and I want him to be comfortable- thats why I decided to use the Dawn, not just for cheap and quick and easy treatment. I have cleaned his tank out several times since I noticed the mites on Thursday. And I cleaned it well, with bleach. There's a really good chance I'm doing it wrong, I am inexperienced, but that's why I ordered the PAM- it comes highly recommended as proven treatment.

thanks Kara! Now, the Dawn won't hurt him if he accidentally ingests some of it? He's been soaking all day for two days now, and I've seen him drinking during that time. I am going to soak him in plain water first, though. Whats a good way to make sure the water stays warm?

Ok just to clarify... Lice the lice spray they are talking about is the exact same ingredient, in the exact same percentage, as PAM..

Go ahead. Read through the thread where the person who created PAM speaks about the differences. Draw your own conclusions.

I'm sorry but the same place manufactures these products and puts them in different cans. Of course PAM supposedly was proven to last on surfaces longer. Longer residual effects. Kills longer then the NIX, equate, or Walgreens lice spray. Ok. And?

I'm just saying, I will still use nix for preventative treatment around borders of cages, floors, walls, etc. Because it works so damn well, it's the same active ingredient with less "sticky" additives, and costs a lot less.

I make this argument only for those who say things like I will NOT use something, before they have any idea why people are even recommending it. In fact, I was going to tell the OP to get some and while waiting for the PAM, use it around the snakes cage and floors to prevent the mites from getting everywhere in the house. It's more than safe and very effective this way.

That's like the member that freaked out and said pine is poison! Get all the facts, read up on it, draw your own conclusions.

Well, thanks. I am an inexperienced snake owner and would rather go with the stuff that is made for the purposes of treating mites on snakes. I just wanted advice on how to administer the Dawn treatment. But I appreciate that.

Good luck with him & getting rid of the mites

The lice treatment everyone says is NOT THE SAME. The ingredients may be labeled on the cans the same but the effective Patent ingredient in PAM is NOT Listed which sets it away from Lice sprays.

If all the active ingredients were labeled on PAM their would be many other companies copying the remedy. Dont be fooled into thinking its the same

Just wanted to post that I personally would only use PAM, I simply posted that link like I have to many others because someone asked about it, and it allows you to read the reasons why. Like everything else, it's all about personal choice.

But Rich, the point is, when you have to wait up to a week for the PAM to get to your house, and especially if you have more than one snake but only one is infected, the lice spray used around the bottoms of tanks, tubs, stands, floors, all borders, etc, will prevent them from going anywhere else. It really is a great preventative measure.

You wouldn't want to waste a $20 can of PAM on this, but a $4 can of lice spray that never even comes in contact with the animal is ideal for it.

Thank you, Foschi. I apologize for being abrupt in my comment about not using lice spray, I just meant that I am not experienced enough to use anything that might be controversial or a home remedy as a final resolution.
It is interesting to know that there are other solutions, and people who have been in the business for a long time would benefit from knowing options like these.
Please accept my apologies, I didn't mean to be critical.

I used the Dawn mite treatment last night to give Jackson some temporary relief... I saw a bunch of the little jerks drowned in the bottom of the tub when I finished and he is now in his hide- he's been soaking in his water dish for two days, and this is the first time he has gotten out of it on his own. I am so happy he's comfortable. He HATED the bath, though. Very irritable when I went to get him out. Thanks to everyone who suggested this!

i would keep doing it for the next few weeks especially until the PAM arrives. It is very important to keep diligent in your efforts. Also even when it does arrive i would keep doing the treatment for a little while after just as a paranoid mindset to ensure killing every one of those little buggers.

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Originally Posted by blueberrypancakes

Giving Jackson the Dawn mite treatment after dinner tonight. How do I do it? Just a drop? swimmy style or just high enough to cover his body? closed container? (waiting for my PAM, btw, not just trying to home remedy...) I can see the little bugs on him now, and it's just miserable! :mad: I HATE them!
Also, I can still see a big lump in his belly from his meal on Friday. Do you think he's having trouble digesting form being in his water dish? Should I wait to treat until the lump is no longer visible? Thanks sooo much, yall are all such a blessing! It's wonderful to have such easily acsessible experienced advice.

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Originally Posted by blueberrypancakes

I used the Dawn mite treatment last night to give Jackson some temporary relief... I saw a bunch of the little jerks drowned in the bottom of the tub when I finished and he is now in his hide- he's been soaking in his water dish for two days, and this is the first time he has gotten out of it on his own. I am so happy he's comfortable. He HATED the bath, though. Very irritable when I went to get him out. Thanks to everyone who suggested this!

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Both thread were merged :gj:

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

Ok just to clarify... Lice the lice spray they are talking about is the exact same ingredient, in the exact same percentage, as PAM..

Go ahead. Read through the thread where the person who created PAM speaks about the differences. Draw your own conclusions.

I'm sorry but the same place manufactures these products and puts them in different cans. Of course PAM supposedly was proven to last on surfaces longer. Longer residual effects. Kills longer then the NIX, equate, or Walgreens lice spray. Ok. And?

I'm just saying, I will still use nix for preventative treatment around borders of cages, floors, walls, etc. Because it works so damn well, it's the same active ingredient with less "sticky" additives, and costs a lot less.

I make this argument only for those who say things like I will NOT use something, before they have any idea why people are even recommending it. In fact, I was going to tell the OP to get some and while waiting for the PAM, use it around the snakes cage and floors to prevent the mites from getting everywhere in the house. It's more than safe and very effective this way.

That's like the member that freaked out and said pine is poison! Get all the facts, read up on it, draw your own conclusions.

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I beg to respectfully disagree. The ACTIVE ingredient, which makes up 1/2 % of the combined ingredients is exactly the same. No one can make the claim that Equate and PAM are EXACTLY the same, because neither list what the other 99.5% of the ingredients are.

I posted this on Fauna last year in a similar discussion:

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What I find truly baffling is that a can of Provent A Mite costs $20 and shipping. Equate costs $5 from what I'm told. How much money have many of us spent to get a desired morph? And yet decide to be cheap when it comes to their safety and well being.

A can of Provent A Mite can last me over a year.

I always read "they're the same thing". How does anyone know that? The only active ingredient listed on either is Permethrin at 0.5%. What about the other 99.5% ingredients NOT listed? Can anyone say with authority that they're REALLY the same? My can of Provent A Mite lists "Other Ingredients" as 99.5% of the rest of the make-up of the product.

Isn't your collection worth the extra $15? How much would it cost you to replace a prized animal that was the one animal that had a reaction to Equate? That's a rhetorical question for anyone considering using a product NOT approved for reptiles.

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The Dawn treatment is a good tempoary fix...just keep in mind your snake probably has 1000's of mite eggs in her vent, nostrils, and under it's scales if it was infected as bad as it sounds. These eggs will be hatching and making brand new mites. Do the Dawn treatment at least 2 times a week until the PAM arrives. I only use PAM in snake tubs where my animals are...but I do use the Equate lice treatment around the outside of the cages and also use it to spray my table covers when working a reptile show. I DO NOT believe they are the same...but...like mentioned above, it is ok around where the animal is not, and much cheaper. I would cringe to think about spraying a $20 can of PAM on a bed sheet to cover a table..$4 Equate ain't that bad.

There was a time that all I would use was PAM.

Some time ago, a debate occurred on another forum where the forumulations between the various 0.5% permethrin products were discussed and dissected.

I have a friend who's wife works for the Ortho division of Chevron. These forum discussions led to she and I having an in-depth discussion about the different formulations of inactive ingredients and how those would effect the efficacy and toxicity of the various brands with respect to reptiles or other living organisms.

This led to discussions about how the EPA grants approval for how a product is used - and how one formulation (but not another) can get approval for a specific use even if that formulation is the same as another product.

I'm not going to get into all the details here because this has become a touchy subject. What I will say is this: after talking to someone with a doctorate in this field, who works specifically in pesticides and has to deal with the effects on non-target species, the fine distinctions were clearly explained without the marketing spin.

Bottom line: be very careful how hard you argue this subject, especially if the information you are using to make your point comes from someone who has a monetary stake in it.

I've had various side conversations with members of this forum regarding this issue. Because of the "passion" with which this debate is often discussed, I have made a point not to bandy this information about. What I will say is this:

If you are new to dealing with mites, PAM is an excellent product to use because it comes with an explicit set of instructions on how to treat.

However, if you've been around the block a few times and know how to apply permethrin products, there are other equally effective options to use.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I beg to respectfully disagree. The ACTIVE ingredient, which makes up 1/2 % of the combined ingredients is exactly the same. No one can make the claim that Equate and PAM are EXACTLY the same, because neither list what the other 99.5% of the ingredients are.

I posted this on Fauna last year in a similar discussion:

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I don't want to get into the debate about them being the same but have one question:

With all of the people that are using the Equate is there any documentation out there that there has been an issue using it?

I'm just curious because it just seems that if someone used the product and it caused a problem you would hear about it...

Yeah I know, everyone is saying why take a chance but people have and it would be nice to know

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Originally Posted by Strick

I don't want to get into the debate about them being the same but have one question:

With all of the people that are using the Equate is there any documentation out there that there has been an issue using it?

I'm just curious because it just seems that if someone used the product and it caused a problem you would hear about it...

Yeah I know, everyone is saying why take a chance but people have and it would be nice to know

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People have had issues with Equate.

People have had issues with Nix.

People have had issues with PAM.

The main issue people have in all of the above cases is that they applied it incorrectly. there has been some anecdotal discussions about sensitivity in some species but I've never personally encountered it.

I am defiantly not the smartest fellow on the block but was blessed with a lot of common sense. I make decisions everyday based on common sense and not what I read or am told. Here is where I made my decision on the PAM vs Equate, Nix, Rid argument. On the can of PAM it clearly says to repeat the process in 30 days, and I have never had PAM fail me. On the cans of the other mentioned treatments it says repeat in 7-10 days. That's enough info for my common sense to kick in and tell me they don't lie dormant and kill newly hatched mites like PAM does. Remember....this is just my common sense talking :D

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Originally Posted by FatBoy

I am defiantly not the smartest fellow on the block but was blessed with a lot of common sense. I make decisions everyday based on common sense and not what I read or am told. Here is where I made my decision on the PAM vs Equate, Nix, Rid argument. On the can of PAM it clearly says to repeat the process in 30 days, and I have never had PAM fail me. On the cans of the other mentioned treatments it says repeat in 7-10 days. That's enough info for my common sense to kick in and tell me they don't lie dormant and kill newly hatched mites like PAM does. Remember....this is just my common sense talking :D

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Sawyer's has a claimed residual action of 6 weeks - even on laundered clothes. It costs about a $1.00 per ounce.

It's manufactured by Coulston, who also manufactures PAM.

http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_...DIST_NR=050404.

I'm interested in what your common sense has to say about that. No snark directed at you - just curious as to if that changes your thinking in any way.

Does all this talk about mites make anyone feel itchy just wondering
Robie:O

My comment is simple under the MSDS acts one ingredient (that is less that 1%) is allowed to be omitted from them to protect trade secrets. You simply cannot compare one to another based on MSDS sheets.

Permethrin and pyrethrin are both derivatives of the same flower (chrysanthemum) one is used as a chemical to KILL snakes ie the brown tree snake (guam) wolf snake (christmas is.) and copperheads (E. USA) it is highly toxic to reptiles. Mistakes in formulation and dosing have very serious consequences. Do not make mistakes.

P-A-M is formulated as a lice and bed bug treatment. As with all chemicals ignorance kills. Oh and remember Permethrin is highly HIGHLY toxic to cats! Causes neurological damage very quickly convulsions and death. Understand what you are dealing with, and don't have sad accidents.

True but permethrin and pyrethrin are "active" ingredients in such a product and therefore would never be combined into the same product without listing both. In fact, no company would ever put both of these chemicals into one can anyway. So it would not be the unlisted ingredient.

I would never use a pyrethrin product. Head and bedding sprays contain permethrin, in the same percentage as PAM. If I ever saw one with the other ingredient, I wouldn't use it.

Thank you to everyone posting warnings on following the directions. I am usually a "by the book" kind of person, but knowing what this can do to my beloved snake (and me!) will def cause me to re-read the instructions before even opening the box! I may have more questions when the PAM arrives.l I am so glad there are so many knowledgeable people to talk to here!

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Sawyer's has a claimed residual action of 6 weeks - even on laundered clothes. It costs about a $1.00 per ounce.

It's manufactured by Coulston, who also manufactures PAM.

http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_...DIST_NR=050404.

I'm interested in what your common sense has to say about that. No snark directed at you - just curious as to if that changes your thinking in any way.

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Oh...that's easy. My common sense still tells me to use PAM...:gj:

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=128306