Small tubs out of necessity or because of space?

I have endlessly searched these forums for this question (I live on here). Do most breeders keep BPs in 15qt tubs until they are 500-1000 grams out of necessity or because of space? I have always had enough 32 qt tubs to put 70 gram+ BPs in, and they gain weight great to my standards.

Do most of you keep them in the smaller tubs because you think that they really do thrive in the smaller tubs then when moved into bigger or otherwise? This will be my first year of actually putting all my pickups into 15 qt tubs right off the bat. Around a year ago I acquired a reptilebasics 8 slot 15 qt tub rack with an Alife thermostat for $75 off craigslist (won't be using that thermostat), I couldn't pass it up. The rack will now be used (can't wait to fill it up).

What are your thoughts on this?

Can't speak for others but I'll keep grow ups in 6qt tubs till about 300-400g depending on how they are eating. Then they go to 32qt tubs till about 1,000g. Then the girls go to 41qt tubs.


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I just know that ball pythons often feel more secure in a smaller enclosure, this is the main reason for most I think. Each snake is different.

I completely believe in ball pythons needing small enclosures. They spend 80 to 90% of their lives in small burrows they can barely fit in. I'm just not sold on a 800 gram BP that will take up over half of a 15 qt tub without a water bowl needing to be in that small of one or not...

The most important thing is to make sure they have the space to thermoregulate. With too small of a space they may not be able to cool down or heat up properly. Food for thought.


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I got a baby ball a few yrs back before I started breeding, and I stuck him in a 32qt tub, well he promptly went off feed, and didn't start feeding again til I moved him to s smaller tub. So yeah I do the step system up when it comes to hatchlings.

Now the snake room looks like this
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u...DSCF2584-1.jpg

Thank you llovelace, I have been thinking I might have been lucky to have 400 gram or less animals flawlessly never go off of feed from switching them instantly to 32qt tubs. This question is more for my future rack system. I would like to build something that holds at least 20 or so tubs and am debating on making them all 15qt or maybe even 6qt as you do. I just need educated options over my personal opinions and experiences.

How many others have had problems with snakes going off feed in 32qt tubs? It would be better for myself to save as much space as possible using smaller tubs. I also do not have a heated room to dedicate to my snakes. I have always built my racks with back and belly heat, belly heat providing the hot spot and back heat providing an adequate ambient temp. I'm not sure I will do that with the 6 or 15qt tubs. I have read enough people provide a hot spot alone and as long as the temps are not getting too cold they will still thrive...

Also, thank you for the visual llovelace!!! It was much appreciated.

You will notice blue lid tubs in the 32qt racks, those are 15 qt rubbermaid tubs, I love them, cause with the lids on, they can be kept in the 32qt rack.
The other 15qt tubs are sterlite ones, and they do not fit in the racks :mad:, that's why they are stacked on the top shelf of the hatchling rack w/ heat tape tacked to the wall for back heat.

you could do dividers!

I personally do not think any 800g Ball should be kept in a 15qt tub.

One of my normal girls is just around 900g and I'm going to put her straight in a 41qt.

As my Spider BP got around 400g I had to switch him out of his 15qt. He simply did not seem to have the correct amount of space. I love giving my Balls some sort of space to be able to stretch out and move around in. I personally like to go with this (includes only a dish):

New hatched - 200g : 6qt
200g-400g : 12-15qt
400g-600g : 28qt
600g-800g : 32-34qt
800g - 1000g+ : 40qt (males), 41qt (females)

Although in my tubs, I always include a hide except for the adults.

I wish I could find a way that dividers that actually worked. I have tried a few different designs in the past and failed miserably.

Most people, once their snake reaches 700-800g, they are moved up to a 32qt tub

Cooliotiffany, do you find that having an extra 1qt for females is needed, or a extra 4-6 qts gives enough room for an extra couple hundred grams? Or are these the setups you had around? I don't think I would have the resources necessary to use a system with specific nature. Thank you for the great guidelines, that is more of what I thinking with my new arrivals, with some minor changes of your guidelines.

There was a recent poll that asked a similar question, it seemed most people voted that they kept their snakes in 15 qt tubs up to 600-1000 grams which was surprising. I provide a lot of hides though. That may be a reason why all of mine have always eaten. When they are small in a 32qt tub they have 4 small hides, as they grow I switch to 2 appropriate sized hides...I don't know, works for me but I would like to save space especially if it works better. I just haven't needed to worry too much about it yet until now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eel588

Cooliotiffany, do you find that having an extra 1qt for females is needed, or a extra 4-6 qts gives enough room for an extra couple hundred grams? Or are these the setups you had around? I don't think I would have the resources necessary to use a system with specific nature. Thank you for the great guidelines, that is more of what I thinking with my new arrivals, with some minor changes of your guidelines.

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Ah well, 41qt is basically what I would use for any adult female. the 40qt is what I have my oldest male in and I like how it works so far. Although, even a 34qt or so wouldn't be bad for an adult male.

Sorry if it seemed I was being strict on my guidelines for how I house my Balls, it was just to show how I feel about housing Balls of a certain weight and what I usually go by. I believe that they should have some space to be able to move around in even if they do like confined areas. But anyone can do whatever they love and I certainly respect that, just don't think an 800g Ball would look comfortable in such a confined space:P.

Hope you find what you like best for your new guys, and hoping to see photos of their arrival!

I don't think I could keep even a 600 gram ball in a little 15qt tub. Sometimes I feel my 500 gram hypo looks kind of big in a 32qt. I have a 100% het pied female that I put straight into a 41qt with 2 hides at 650 grams. In a year she has grown to almost 1400 grams, I think she liked the extra space...

Oh, and always photos are to be provided!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eel588

I don't think I could keep even a 600 gram ball in a little 15qt tub. Sometimes I feel my 500 gram hypo looks kind of big in a 32qt. I have a 100% het pied female that I put straight into a 41qt with 2 hides at 650 grams. In a year she has grown to almost 1400 grams, I think she liked the extra space...

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Man that is a crazy weight gain:gj:!! I do feel that the smaller space slows down the growth of the snake. Which is why my Spider and Pastel also seem to be on the smaller side at almost two years of age. Just a few months ago I switched them to larger tubs from being in 15qts for a long while. And just because you're talking about larger tubs, I may even consider looking at some new tubs soon LOL.:)

In my experience many individual ball pythons will be fine in a big bin...but some will not. Because they virtually ALL appear happy in smaller bins, there really is no reason to move them into bigger ones until they're of a size to make use of it.

I have had exactly 1 hatchling over 4 years of breeding that insisted on being put into a larger bin before he would eat. Go figure--they ARE individuals. :)

I generally use whichever size the snakes seem to prefer by their eating habits. If I move a snake to a larger bin and it goes off feed for a few weeks, it goes back to the smaller bin. If it eats in the smaller bin, it stays in the smaller bin for a while longer before I attempt to move it to a larger. Right now, all my collection are in the larger bins finally, but I have new hatchlings in "shoebox" racks right now. I've had decent luck starting hatchlings in the shoebox racks, and little luck if I give them a "luxary suite" of a larger bin when I've tried. So now everyone starts in a shoebox size bin because that's what's worked for me.

Your title question seems to offer no "out" though? Necessity or space? Does that mean "necessity due to what the snakes want" or "necassity due to not wanting to buy bigger bins"? I think most all of the keepers on here tend to use what works best for their animals.

Thanks for all the responses. The question was referring to if snakes prefer really small tubs or do breeders with large numbers of snakes prolong to transfer to a larger tub because of resources available? From here on I will be always putting BPs 400 grams or less in 6 or 15 qt tubs, and will be moving them up to 32 qt tub at an individual rate.

The breeders I know keep snakes in smaller tubs due to space.

It has been proven repeatably that small snakes do well in correctly set up enclosures large or small. I don't buy into small tubs are better I'd say small or big is just different styles, just like naturalistic, minimal and bioactive are different. I know people whom have been keeping royals healthy in huge enclosures and small ones it isn't the enclosure but the keeper that makes the difference.

It is very difficult to get a any kind of real temperature gradient in a small space, few manage it. It usually takes a larger space to accomplish, even then it isn't as easy as it sounds. Again they don't seem to need it just spots.

There is myths revolving around this issue but I believe them to be myths if they were not smaller snakes would not commonly be reported doing well in larger tanks enclosures or other wise. A minimalist approach may not work well but the many other styles of enclosure seem to work just fine.

I keep royals in tubs, tanks, modified tanks, and enclosures, one being quite large, they all feed and grow and are perfectly healthy. That includes the my first snake I got as a hatchling whom grew up in a fairly large enclosure (30x24) he has been, and continues to be, a great aggressive feeder and super healthy well adjusted snake.

it would be hard to have 20 or 80 enclosures of that size if I was interested in breeding I'd have racks I don't know anyone whom is serious about breeding whom doesn't use racks. It just isn't efficient. That doesn't mean it has to be a small tub.

Very well put! Once my spider male is no longer needed in my breeding projects (when he becomes replaced by a double gene male with spider in it) I will be making a decently large naturalistic enclosure for him. He has the best personality I have ever seen in a snake and I would like him (mostly his habitat) to be seen and appreciated for what it is. You said it perfectly kitedemon, the keeper is the one who controls the success of his or her animals not the size of tub, tank, or whatever.

It's always a case by case basis for me, in general I keep BP up to 250/300 grams in 6 quarts tubs they feel secure never miss a meal and that is what works for them :gj:

Once they reach 300 grams it's either 32 quarts or 41 quarts, depends on the animal and how well they are doing.

Of course I do have some exceptions as well, I have animals in the 800/900 grams range who are in 15 quarts tubs because they do poorly in anything bigger (It's temporary but it's what is needed at that specific time)

Space is not an issue here it's all about what works for each individual.

Sorry for hi-jacking the thread, but didn't feel like opening a new one...

How long will a 10-gallon tank last (on terms of her size. 2 years?)