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Constrictor constrictor?

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  • 07-17-2011, 08:18 PM
    Boanerges
    Constrictor constrictor?
    Out of curiosity in New Jersey you can own a boa without needing a permit if it is a Constrictor constrictor. It's been awhile since I was in the mix of boas (not that I ever really was) so I have a couple questions again. Now I take it a Constrictor constrictor would be a BCC? Someone school me again on the difference between a BCI (boa constrictor imperator) and a BCC real quick? Give me some examples of which boas are actually BCI and BCC also please. Like a red tail is a? A Argentine is a? Thanks to anyone who can feed my curiosity and help me figure it all out again...
  • 07-17-2011, 08:24 PM
    llovelace
    The differences between the two subspecies are minimal.
    Bcc were the original "redtailed boas", however several decades ago dealers began applying the same name to the Colombian boas in order to squeeze some extra money out of their sales, as "true redtails" tended to have a nicer appearance to them.

    Bcc sometimes display a brighter tail colouration, more colouration throughout their body (silvers and/or pinks and/or purples), shaplier saddles that may have more contrast, and less than 22 saddles.
    Bci may have more or less than 22 saddles, which makes this method of identification unreliable. Bci have a much quicker growth rate than Bcc do and can easily attain lengths of 6' or more by their second birthday. They generally have the same maintenance requirements.

    **copied**
  • 07-17-2011, 08:53 PM
    Foschi Exotic Serpents
    That's the funniest law I've ever heard for snakes! I wonder if they are aware that BCC often grow larger and sometimes have a worse temperament than the BCI?

    Lol!!

    But yes, the first post is correct. Suriname's and Guyana's are Boa Constrictor Constrictors. Then you have BCI and all their color morphs. Then there are a bunch of other sub species such as..
    BCI
    BCS
    BCL
    BCA


    Check out Vin Russo's site for quite a bit of info on these.

    http://www.cuttingedgeherp.com/
  • 07-17-2011, 10:18 PM
    Nektu
    Interesting facts. So what would a rainbow boa fall under?
  • 07-18-2011, 09:24 AM
    Boanerges
    Re: Constrictor constrictor?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Nektu View Post
    Interesting facts. So what would a rainbow boa fall under?

    I have no clue personally - lol. I am still quite a bit confused with the whole thing especially in regards to NJ law. If I were to ever get a boa again in NJ I would probably just add it to an existing permit or get a permit for it by itself just to be safe. I guess you could always ask fish and wild life and ask which ones exactly don't need a permit but I don't know if I would just trust someones word from there over the phone on which ones don't need one just in case (since the area seems a bit grey). I might take a signed statement from someone there in higher authority but I don't know if they would do that, it also seems like a lot of trouble and I don't know how well that would go over if I ever needed it as proof that I was told I didn't need a permit for that particular boa. And I imagine they could still say guess what "so and so" was wrong and you do need a permit that note means nothing. Since I am not getting a boa or thinking about getting one, it doesn't really matter too much to me personally but I was just being a dork I guess and feeding my curiousity about the whole thing :P
  • 07-18-2011, 11:43 AM
    MikeV
    BCI - indicates that the bao came from a certain habitat that is differen't to that of BCC boas

    BCC - means the above, but also shows differen't saddle shape, color ect ect.

    Usually its very easy to identify a BCC from a BCI

    BCC include - Peruvians, Suriname's, Guyana just to name a few

    BCI include - Colombian, Nicaraguan, and one other which I cannot remember, again there are more though

    BCC are generally harder to keep. They are much more difficult to feed properly and they are not as hardy as BCI (or so ive read, no personal experience with BCC boas though)

    Mainly, I've read that you have to offer them much smaller meals than usual or they will regurg.

    They also require slightly lower temps than BCI

    Here are some pics to show you the difference:

    My Colombian BCI Powder -
    http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6931/dsc00424j.jpg

    http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/9140/dsc00431bv.jpg

    Peruvian BCC (looks kinda like Powder eh!?! That is interesting) -

    http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/2033/peru2.jpg

    http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/4...redtailboa.jpg

    Those are just two examples, its good comparison so you can see the tail pattern difference and tail colour difference, all that Jazz.

    Hope some of this info has helped!
  • 07-20-2011, 05:08 AM
    SpartaDog
    I checked the NJ Fish and Wildlife website not too long ago, and if I remember correctly, "boa constrictor" was listed under species that did not require a permit (why they don't but balls and leos do, I'll never understand). There was no specification of subspecies. Other boas such as KSBs, BRBs, and others were listed separately.
  • 07-22-2011, 01:57 PM
    SamuraiZr0
    Bcc tend to be larger and they are further south on the map than say boa constrictor imperator. nic boas would be BCI where as Guyanan boas would be BCC. the usual rule of thumb seems to be . the further south the larger the snake. BCI tend to be part of the Dwarf boas while BCC tend to be what are called TRUE RED TAILS. they occupy territory of the amazon basin. BCI however range from mexico down through south america and some islands. the islands also contain sub species such as BCS.
  • 07-22-2011, 02:02 PM
    gold217
    Re: Constrictor constrictor?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Nektu View Post
    Interesting facts. So what would a rainbow boa fall under?

    Rainbow boa: Epicrates Cenchira
    Brazilian Rainbow: Epicrates Cenchira Cenchira
    Peruvian Rainbow: Epicrates Cenchira Gaigei
    Columbian Rainbow: Epicrates Cenchira Maurus
  • 07-22-2011, 02:29 PM
    SamuraiZr0
    Re: Constrictor constrictor?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by gold217 View Post
    Rainbow boa: Epicrates Cenchira
    Brazilian Rainbow: Epicrates Cenchira Cenchira
    Peruvian Rainbow: Epicrates Cenchira Gaigei
    Columbian Rainbow: Epicrates Cenchira Maurus

    Great info thanks!:bow::bow:
  • 07-22-2011, 02:30 PM
    Vypyrz
    Re: Constrictor constrictor?
    Here is my canned reply on the differences. Hope it helps.
    Quote:

    Red Tail Boas are classified as follows:

    Boa Constrictor Constrictor (BCC)- These are the "true red tails." These are generally the largest in size and maintain their red tails into adulthood. The tail will normally have a distinct red color that ranges from bright red to a deeper, more blood red color. They come from:
    Peru
    Brazil
    Venezuela
    Suriname
    Guyana

    Boa Constrictor Imperator (BCI)- This is the largest group of boa constrictors. Their tail color normally ranges from a darker, more subdued red to a more common brown color. They include the boas from Central America:
    Colombia
    Panama
    Costa Rica
    Nicaraqua
    Mexico: Tamaulipas, Tarahumara
    and the insular islands:
    Hogg Island
    Caulker Cay
    Crawl Cay
    Corn Island

    Boa Constrictor Amarali (BCA)- Bolivian boa constrictors

    Boa Constrictor Longicauda (BCL)- These come from the Tumbes region of Peru. They are also known as the Peruvian Long-tail Boa, as they have a higher scale count from their vent to tail tip, than the Peruvian BCC.

    Boa Constrictor Occidentalis (BCO)- Argentine boa constrictors.

    Boa Constrictor Sabogae (BCS)- Pearl Island boa constrictors

    As well as, some of the lesser known sub-species:

    Boa Constrictor Nebulosa- Dominican Republic, Lesser Antilles
    Boa Constrictor Orophias- St. Lucia
    Boa Constrictor Melanogaster- Ecuador Black Belly

    It is best to research each of these, as they have different sizes, colorings, and growth rates. Here are a few websites to help you get started, where the different sub-species of Boa Constrictor are discussed and described:

    http://www.boa-constrictors.com/com/com.html

    http://www.cuttingedgeherp.com/contactinformation/

    http://www.riobravoreptiles.com/index.htm

    Physical Differences:

    -Saddle Shape: Generally the BCI saddles will have a rounder apearance, looking something like this: ( ) ( ) ( ), whereas the BCC saddles generally have an apex in the saddles, much like this: } { } { } { } . While this is a good marker, it is not always reliable.

    -Head Shape: The head shape between BCC and BCI may be hard to detect in neonates, but from about 1 year in age, the differences become more apparent. The BCC generally have less pronounced jaw muscles, giving the head a more slender, longer, or uniformly tapered appearance, with a more pointed shaped nose. Also, the size of the head will appear larger in relation to the size of the body in the neck area. The BCI generally has more pronounced jaw muscles and a more blunt or broader looking nose, giving the head a shorter appearance. Also the BCI head will appear smaller in relation to the size of the body in the neck area.

    Here is a photo of my Costa Rican BCI. In the photo, you can clearly see the rounded saddle pattern, as well as, the brown coloring on the tail saddles. You can also see that his jaw muscles are just starting to develope a more pronounced and rounder appearance, and in about a year, will be readily apparent.

    http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/...t/HPIM0694.jpg

    -Scale Count: Scale count is another indicator of Boa type, however, since alot of the numbers overlap, it should not be relied on solely. Scale count + Head shape is the most accurate method of determining the type of Boa that you have. If you are looking for a specific locale of BCC or BCI, the easiest way to ensure that you are getting what you want is to buy from a reputable breeder who will guarantee the genetics.
    Here is a chart that was posted on another forum with some basic scale and saddle counts. I left the authors name in the post so that he can recieve credit:

    Quote:

    Here are the scale counts for you.

    BCC
    scale counts - 75 to 95 dorsal rows.
    227 to 250 ventrals.
    49 to 62 subcaudals.
    Average 15 to 21 saddles.

    BCI
    scale counts - 56 to 79 dorsal rows.
    225 to 253 ventrals.
    47 to 65 subcaudals.
    Average 22 to 30 saddles.

    BCA ( Amaral Boa)
    scale counts - 71 to 79 dorsal rows.
    226 to 237 ventrals.
    43 to 52 subcaudals.
    Average 22 saddles.

    BCL (Longicauada)
    scale counts - 60 to 76 dorsal rows.
    243 to 247 ventrals.
    50 to 67 subcaudals.
    Average 19 to 21 saddles.

    BCO (Occidentalis)
    scale counts - 65 to 87 dorsal rows.
    242 to 251 ventrals.
    45 subcaudals.
    Average 22 to 30 saddles.


    Take care
    Tom
    For those who are doing research or looking for care info, the following links are to the different sections of "The Ultimate Boa Constrictor Care Guide" by Clay English:

    http://www.redtailboas.com/f110/part...ew-line-40589/
    http://www.redtailboas.com/f110/part...-online-40590/
    http://www.redtailboas.com/f110/part...-online-40591/
    http://www.redtailboas.com/f110/emer...-online-40594/
    http://www.redtailboas.com/f110/feed...ew-line-40593/
    http://www.redtailboas.com/f110/inst...-online-40592/

    You can also download the entire guide in PDF format free by going to this link and registering:

    http://www.redtailboas.com/f110/down...ion-3-a-31312/

    Also, here is a fairly in-depth article by Gus Rentfro, Rio Bravo Reptiles, on Boa Constrictor care:

    http://www.redtailboa.net/forums/sna...tail-boas.html

    Hopefully, all of these links and info will help those doing research, or the keeper who is just looking for some additional resources and info...

    -Vypyrz-
    And in the below photos, the difference in head shape is very clear.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MikeV View Post

    My Colombian BCI Powder -
    http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6931/dsc00424j.jpg

    Peruvian BCC (looks kinda like Powder eh!?! That is interesting) -

    http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/2033/peru2.jpg

  • 07-22-2011, 02:33 PM
    xFenrir
    Re: Constrictor constrictor?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SpartaDog View Post
    "boa constrictor" was listed under species that did not require a permit (why they don't but balls and leos do, I'll never understand).

    That IS crazy. They'd rather people have a 7+ foot boa than the lil' 3-5 foot scaredy-python. :rofl:
  • 09-09-2011, 04:31 PM
    rperry03
    Re: Constrictor constrictor?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by xFenrir View Post
    That IS crazy. They'd rather people have a 7+ foot boa than the lil' 3-5 foot scaredy-python. :rofl:

    If they are worried about invasive species here, the funny thing is in the unlikely hood that any of them were to survive a winter her the bcc just might have an advantage.

    Basically it is just their way of knowing peoples business and taxing you 2x (if you buy here).
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