Understanding the platty gene?

Ok so I thought I had the platty gene figured out, till now. Lets see if I can make this understandable...

So Platty daddy bred to a normal will get you Lessers and het plattys where the lessers do not carry the platty gene right?

Well I was going through RDR's birthing pages and came across where he bred his Platty daddy back to one of his lesser daughters. Well he hatched out 2 plattys. Am I missing something here or just really confused about this gene? Lol.

It was clutch #8 of RDR's 04 season.

Heres the link: http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/bi...pythons_04.asp

Thanks!

I'm confused somewhat about it also.

I contacted Ralph about this before. He told me that a platty couldn't be produced by breeding 2 lessers together.



Wow, just checked out the link. It's from 2004. This is when I was just getting into ball pythons and I checked out Ralphy's website constantly.

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Originally Posted by Jason Bowden

I'm confused somewhat about it also.

I contacted Ralph about this before. He told me that a platty couldn't be produced by breeding 2 lessers together.

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Thats what I have heard also, from many many breeders. Makes me wounder now as there is a guy selling het plattys from his platty daddy to normal but selling the lesser sibs for $200. If ralph did the same breeding then and when he bred the platty daddy back to a lesser sib got plattys makes me wounder if those lesser sibs are, or could be, worth a lot more!

Buy them if you can!!!

Even if they prove to be just lessers, they will be great to work with.

Ok I just answered my own question. If I would have thought about it for a second longer!

The platty daddy would be carring the lesser gene and the het platty gene, then when that was bred to the lesser daughter you could get the het platty gene from the platty daddy and the lesser gene from the lesser mom which would produce the "Platty daddy".

Oops! :oops:

I don't completely understand this gene. Can you get platties from platty x platty?

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Originally Posted by bassistjon112

I don't completely understand this gene. Can you get platties from platty x platty?

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Yes. Platty x Platty would give you 50% platty, 25% super lesser and 25% super platty (not sure what that looks like).

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Originally Posted by bassistjon112

I don't completely understand this gene. Can you get platties from platty x platty?

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yes

25% BEL
50% Platty
25% homozygous daddy gene

the daddy gene or het platty gene (w/e you wanna call it) is part of the BEL complex

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Originally Posted by bassistjon112

I don't completely understand this gene. Can you get platties from platty x platty?

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Yes. Think of a platty as a super kinda like a BEL from a butter/mojo. Just replace either one with the daddy gene. From a platty to platty you can get plattys, super lessers, super daddy gene carriers. Make sense?

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

yes

25% BEL
50% Platty
25% homozygous daddy gene

the daddy gene or het platty gene (w/e you wanna call it) is part of the BEL complex

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Um, yeah.

Thanks everyone. I was wondering because I personally never seen any one do platty x platty, only platty x het platty.


They are awesome snakes.

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Originally Posted by aalomon

Yes. Platty x Platty would give you 50% platty, 25% super lesser and 25% super platty (not sure what that looks like).

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I could be mis-remembering, but I seem to recall reading RDR reports that the homozygous platty just looks like a normal. Don't quote me on that though.

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Originally Posted by Serpent_Nirvana

I could be mis-remembering, but I seem to recall reading RDR reports that the homozygous platty just looks like a normal. Don't quote me on that though.

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I will quote you, because you are right :)

Ralph Davis bred platinum x platinum and got a normal looking baby. Since it didn't get the lesser gene from either parent, it had to get the hidden gene from both.

My understanding of the Platty gene is that it is linked to lessers but not all lessers have the gene. However if you know the lesser was produced from a platty parent the likely hood that the lesser carries the gene also is greatly increased. But I don't think that you can have a het platty that isn't a lesser or another morph that can carry the platty gene.

I may be totally wrong but that was how I understood it.

Actually, a lesser cannot carry the gene. If it did it would be a platty. If you have a lesser you can be 100% sure it does not carry the platty gene.

As for other morphs, I would think that any morph thats not part of the BEL group could carry the gene and not show it.

Lots of replies, but I think alot were wrong!
Blah! I'll have to look more into this!

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Originally Posted by Jason Bowden

Lots of replies, but I think alot were wrong!
Blah! I'll have to look more into this!

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Not many are wrong.

It really is no more complicated than any other gene, people just think it is because you can't visually see it. :) It works like any of the other co-dom genes within the BEL group - the Platinum (Lesser x Het Platty) is a "super" (homozygous) animal just like a Lesser x Lesser or Lesser x Mojave.

When you breed a Platinum (Lesser x Het Platty) to a Normal you should get about 50% Lessers and 50% Het Plattys (they look normal). You cannot get a Platinum out of a Platinum unless you breed it to 1) a Het Platty 2) A Lesser or 3) another Platinum.

In turn you can't get any normals out of a Platinum, all offspring will be atleast Lesser or Het Platty.

No Lessers carry the Het Platty gene. If they had that gene they would be Platinums, not Lessers.

Does that make sense? :)

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Originally Posted by abi21491

It really is no more complicated than any other gene, people just think it is because you can't visually see it. :) It works like any of the other co-dom genes within the BEL group - the Platinum (Lesser x Het Platty) is a "super" (homozygous) animal just like a Lesser x Lesser or Lesser x Mojave.

When you breed a Platinum (Lesser x Het Platty) to a Normal you should get about 50% Lessers and 50% Het Plattys (they look normal). You cannot get a Platinum out of a Platinum unless you breed it to 1) a Het Platty 2) A Lesser or 3) another Platinum.

In turn you can't get any normals out of a Platinum, all offspring will be atleast Lesser or Het Platty.

No Lessers carry the Het Platty gene. If they had that gene they would be Platinums, not Lessers.

Does that make sense? :)

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Yeah, except for the first paragraph. LOL I guess I'm being weird. I don't think you can compare platinum gene confusion with co-dom genes that produce BEL.

The rest of this post has clarified the subject to me though. Until you look at the original post. How do you get platinums from a platinum X lesser breeding? Ralphy did! Do you think Ralph Davis goofed on his records?

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Originally Posted by Jason Bowden

Yeah, except for the first paragraph. LOL I guess I'm being weird. I don't think you can compare platinum gene confusion with co-dom genes that produce BEL.

The rest of this post has clarified the subject to me though. Until you look at the original post. How do you get platinums from a platinum X lesser breeding? Ralphy did! Do you think Ralph Davis goofed on his records?

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Yes you can compare them because it works the same way, and it is part of that group of morphs. :gj:

and there is nothing surprising about producing a Platinum from Platinum x Lesser - the Platinum offspring inherited the Het Platty gene from the Platinum parent and the Lesser gene from the Lesser parent. Make sense?

Still don't think you can compare them. None of the other BEL producing genes work the same way. There is no lesser mojave, etc...

Not gonna argue though. LOL I think your mind is made up.

You said in your first post that lessers don't carry the platty gene. I guess it's a little harder for me to grasp. I'll catch on though.

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Originally Posted by Jason Bowden

Still don't think you can compare them. None of the other BEL producing genes work the same way.

Not gonna argue though. LOL I think your mind is made up.

You said in your fist post that lessers don't carry the platty gene.

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How do they work differently? The only difference is a het platty isnt visual.

...and yes, lessers do not carry the platty gene or they would be a platty. However, you can get a platty from a platty (one lesser gene, one het platty gene) x lesser (one normal gene, one lesser gene) breeding.

Theoretically, from this pairing you could the following genetic combinations:
Baby 1 - 2 lesser genes - visual BEL
Baby 2 - 1 lesser gene, 1 het platty gene - visual Platty
Baby 3 - 1 lesser gene, 1 normal gene - visual Lesser
Baby 4 - 1 het platty gene, 1 normal gene - het platty that looks normal

Those are all the possibly babies you could get from a platty x lesser cross so its not surprising a platty popped out.

Huh?

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Originally Posted by Jason Bowden

Still don't think you can compare them. None of the other BEL producing genes work the same way. There is no lesser mojave, etc...Not gonna argue though. LOL I think your mind is made up.

You said in your first post that lessers don't carry the platty gene. I guess it's a little harder for me to grasp. I'll catch on though.

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Yes there is.

It just looks like a BEL - when you breed one to a normal you get 50% lessers and 50% mojaves.


dr del

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Originally Posted by dr del

Huh?



Yes there is.

It just looks like a BEL - when you breed one to a normal you get 50% lessers and 50% mojaves.


dr del

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Geeze Doc, wake up.

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Originally Posted by Jason Bowden

Still don't think you can compare them. None of the other BEL producing genes work the same way. There is no lesser mojave, etc...

Not gonna argue though. LOL I think your mind is made up.

You said in your first post that lessers don't carry the platty gene. I guess it's a little harder for me to grasp. I'll catch on though.

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That doesn't mean they aren't on the same locus ;) They are on the same locus because a Platinum is a super, it can't produce normals. If it wasn't on the same locus, normals would be produced - kind of like when you breed a Bumblebee (Spider x Pastel) to a normal.. You'll get Spiders, Pastels, Bees and Normals. A Platinum x Normal will give Lessers and Het Plattys, like a Lesser x Mojo BEL will give all Lessers and Mojos. No normals but it also can't reproduce itself UNLESS the other parent provides one of the needed genes.

No, a Lesser can't carry the gene, but a Platinum does. It is a Lesser x Het Platinum. Aalomon's answer below breaks it down well :gj:

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Originally Posted by aalomon

How do they work differently? The only difference is a het platty isnt visual.

...and yes, lessers do not carry the platty gene or they would be a platty. However, you can get a platty from a platty (one lesser gene, one het platty gene) x lesser (one normal gene, one lesser gene) breeding.

Theoretically, from this pairing you could the following genetic combinations:
Baby 1 - 2 lesser genes - visual BEL
Baby 2 - 1 lesser gene, 1 het platty gene - visual Platty
Baby 3 - 1 lesser gene, 1 normal gene - visual Lesser
Baby 4 - 1 het platty gene, 1 normal gene - het platty that looks normal

Those are all the possibly babies you could get from a platty x lesser cross so its not surprising a platty popped out.

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Also wanted to point out that some of the other BEL linked genes don't make BELs when bred together:

Mojave x Mystic - Mystic Potion
Mojave x Special - Crystal

They are still super forms though because those genes are all sitting on the same locus.

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Originally Posted by aalomon

How do they work differently? The only difference is a het platty isnt visual.

...and yes, lessers do not carry the platty gene or they would be a platty. However, you can get a platty from a platty (one lesser gene, one het platty gene) x lesser (one normal gene, one lesser gene) breeding.

Theoretically, from this pairing you could the following genetic combinations:
Baby 1 - 2 lesser genes - visual BEL
Baby 2 - 1 lesser gene, 1 het platty gene - visual Platty
Baby 3 - 1 lesser gene, 1 normal gene - visual Lesser
Baby 4 - 1 het platty gene, 1 normal gene - het platty that looks normal

Those are all the possibly babies you could get from a platty x lesser cross so its not surprising a platty popped out.

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OK I'm at an understanding.
Thanks! A little different, but I got it now. A lesser het platty is a platty. I guess I had a brain fart. LOL
Thanks again for putting up with me.








Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Jason Bowden

OK I'm at an understanding. A normal color phase animal can carry the platty gene, but a lesser cannot. Amazing to me! I wonder if other morphs can carry the platty gene?
Thanks! A little different, but I got it now. A lesser het platty is a platty. I guess I had a brain fart. LOL
Thanks again for putting up with me.

Thanks!

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Exactly ;) From what I've gathered any of the BEL genes (Mojave, Lesser, Butter, etc) mixed with the Het Daddy gene are visual but I'm guessing any morph that ISN'T a BEL gene would carry the Het Platty gene unnoticed, like a Normal does. It only appears to show itself within the BEL complex.

[QUOTE=abi21491;1595427]That doesn't mean they aren't on the same locus ;) They are on the same locus because a Platinum is a super, it can't produce normals. If it wasn't on the same locus, normals would be produced - kind of like when you breed a Bumblebee (Spider x Pastel) to a normal.. You'll get Spiders, Pastels, Bees and Normals. A Platinum x Normal will give Lessers and Het Plattys, like a Lesser x Mojo BEL will give all Lessers and Mojos. No normals but it also can't reproduce itself UNLESS the other parent provides one of the needed genes.

No, a Lesser can't carry the gene, but a Platinum does. It is a Lesser x Het Platinum. Aalomon's answer below breaks it down well :gj:





Never heard of a locus.

Anyway, I wonder why a platty X normal breeding can't produce a platty. Or maybe you can.?

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Originally Posted by Jason Bowden

Never heard of a locus.

Anyway, I wonder why a platty X normal breeding can't produce a platty. Or maybe you can.?

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No, with a platty x normal all the babies would get one gene; either het platty or lesser. Its the same as breeding a BEL that has one lesser and one mojave gene to a normal. You would get all lessers and mojaves, but no normals or BELs.

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Originally Posted by aalomon

No, with a platty x normal all the babies would get one gene; either het platty or lesser. Its the same as breeding a BEL that has one lesser and one mojave gene to a normal. You would get all lessers and mojaves, but no normals or BELs.

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Right :gj: Because the genes are on the same locus, 2 parts of a whole so to speak - and a parent can only give 1 gene to the offspring from each locus. Each animal has 2 genes, 1 from each parent :) So in the case of a Platinum it only passes one or the other, it can't pass both at the same time to the same baby. Same with a BEL, a Super Pastel, etc... any homozygous "super" form can't reproduce itself when bred to a normal.

I'm getting closer to a complete understanding.

But if you breed a mojave/lesser BEL to a normal, there is a chance of getting a BEL.

But the platty(lesser with hidden platty gene) by normal, you can't get a platty.
Any explanation for this?

Am I really over looking something truely obvious?

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Originally Posted by Jason Bowden

I getting closer to a complete understanding.

But if you breed a mojave/lesser BEL to a normal, there is a chance of getting a BEL.

But the platty(lesser with hidden platty gene) by normal, you can't get a platty.
Any explanation for this?

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Nope, no chance of getting a BEL from BEL x Normal. You will only get Mojaves & Lessers in that pairing.

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Originally Posted by abi21491

Nope, no chance of getting a BEL from BEL x Normal. You will only get Mojaves & Lessers in that pairing.

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OK
Thanks, I understand now! Sorry it took so long!
I bet this drove breeders nuts. LOL

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Originally Posted by Jason Bowden

OK
Thanks, I understand now! Sorry it took so long!
I bet this drove breeders nuts. LOL

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Awesome :) and no need to apologize - that's what these forums are for :D

Still amazed at the genetics!

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Originally Posted by Jason Bowden

Geeze Doc, wake up.

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Don't make me bean you with mah coffee mug. :taz: :P

Your getting the phenotype mixed up with the genotype.

Also that genes come in pairs and each parent can provide only one of the genes for every location.


dr del

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Originally Posted by dr del

Don't make me bean you with mah coffee mug. :taz: :P

Your getting the phenotype mixed up with the genotype.

Also that genes come in pairs and each parent can provide only one of the genes for every location.


dr del

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Yeah.
Sorry for snapping at you.