What could it be???????????

i just bought a normal female ball python that i been checking on for the past month from a local pet shop.she seems sick to me.shes very limp and kind cork screws her head and seems soft at her upper section and her tail/lower section is limp and soft.im trying to figure out what it could be.the pet shop people said she hasnt eat in over a month.i tried to feed her but no intrest.she seems alert and moves around alittle bit.no signs of respotory.so im wondering what could be the problem.oh the petshop also says she locked up with another ball python that she shared the tanl with and kinda looks like she has eggs building.i had to buy her because i had to help her.she cost $40 and that was a deal they said.i had to try to save her ao she concidered my first rescue.she isnt part of my breeding program and she is kept out of the same area of all my other snakes.would she be like that if she is lumping?

I hate to say it, but you can't save them all. I would not have paid $40 for a snake that hadn't eaten in one month and shows signs of illness. If you felt the need to "save" her, then I hope you also have the ability to pay for any veterinary costs that may come along with her. I have no idea what she could have, hopefully someone else can give you an idea. Good luck with her. :hmm: Be sure not to share supplies between her and your established collection and always wash your hands thoroughly after handling her!

Definitely vet time! Also QT!! Those symptoms do not sound good but obviously I can't diagnose an illness. If the worst case scenario were to happen and she passes away before you can get her to a vet you should get a necropsy done. If its a serious disease you need to know and let the pet store know, especially because she was with other pythons.

I know its tempting to "rescue" sick pet store snakes but you are taking a risk in spreading what ever they have to your collection and facing vet bills as well.

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Originally Posted by Kymberli

I hate to say it, but you can't save them all. I would not have paid $40 for a snake that hadn't eaten in one month and shows signs of illness. If you felt the need to "save" her, then I hope you also have the ability to pay for any veterinary costs that may come along with her. I have no idea what she could have, hopefully someone else can give you an idea. Good luck with her. :hmm: Be sure not to share supplies between her and your established collection and always wash your hands thoroughly after handling her!

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i always sanitize between snakes. as a vet goes i have a breeder friend who can help me but cant get a hold of him at the moment because hes out of town thats why im reaching out to anyone that can help here.money didnt matter $40 to me to try to save a life was priceless if she pulls through or not.thanks tho

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Originally Posted by jsmorphs2

Definitely vet time! Also QT!! Those symptoms do not sound good but obviously I can't diagnose an illness. If the worst case scenario were to happen and she passes away before you can get her to a vet you should get a necropsy done. If its a serious disease you need to know and let the pet store know, especially because she was with other pythons.

I know its tempting to "rescue" sick pet store snakes but you are taking a risk in spreading what ever they have to your collection and facing vet bills as well.

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what is qt?

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Originally Posted by FINGAZZ

i always sanitize between snakes. as a vet goes i have a breeder friend who can help me but cant get a hold of him at the moment because hes out of town thats why im reaching out to anyone that can help here.money didnt matter $40 to me to try to save a life was priceless if she pulls through or not.thanks tho

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Well I definitely hope she pulls through for you! If you can find another vet nearby who is familiar with snakes, I'd schedule an appointment as soon as you can.


EDIT: QT= Quarantine

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Originally Posted by FINGAZZ

what is qt?

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Quarentine (QT for short)...it's the practice of keeping a new snake in a completely separate room from any other animals, using separate items to clean/feed the snake, and washing your hands after handling for 30-60 days in order to identify any health issues the snake does or doesn't have or may develop to prevent illness/parasites being transfered to an existing established snake collection.

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Originally Posted by jsmorphs2

Quarentine (QT for short)...it's the practice of keeping a new snake in a completely separate room from any other animals, using separate items to clean/feed the snake, and washing your hands after handling for 30-60 days in order to identify any health issues the snake does or doesn't have or may develop to prevent illness/parasites being transfered to an existing established snake collection.

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oh ok.yeah my collection is in my garage and shes in the house.i bought a serolite bin and bowl just for her.shes pretty big in her mid section.i think she has eggs from the looks of it.if she does will the babbies have what she might have?






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Forgive me if I am wrong, but isn't corkscrewing (the non genetic spider kind) a symptom of IBD?

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Originally Posted by Kingofspades

Forgive me if I am wrong, but isn't corkscrewing (the non genetic spider kind) a symptom of IBD?

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thats what i was thinking maybe she was from a clutch of spiders and she just happen to catch the gene.but if that the case the she has a realy bad wobble..

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Originally Posted by FINGAZZ

thats what i was thinking maybe she was from a clutch of spiders and she just happen to catch the gene.but if that the case the she has a realy bad wobble..

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I don't believe spider siblings have the spider issue. Also, I don't know if an illness can be transfered to a snakes eggs in utero. That would be a good question to ask the vet when you bring her in.

And yes, neurological problems are a symptom of IBD.

first, i gotta say that $40 may not seem like a lot now, but what if she is sick and you have to go to the vet?? you cant just buy them and hope they get better, i spent nearly 2,000 on a female and she still died. are you prepared for that???

you wanted to rescue her...good job but they are just going to replace her with another one. are you going to rescue that one too?? y help keep these places in business?

she does sound like she's sick tho. corkscrewing can be a sign of IBD, it could be a sign of nerve damage caused by high temps. does she seem well fed? she may be underfed which could cause her to be lethargic and limp. she could also be gravid. a vet check up is the best thing to do now, not a breeder freind. breeders have a lot of experience with these animals but they are not a vet, very big difference.

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Originally Posted by Kingofspades

Forgive me if I am wrong, but isn't corkscrewing (the non genetic spider kind) a symptom of IBD?

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It's also a symptom of about every bacterial and viral infection - not to mention environmental poisoning, overheating, etc.

if shes just laying on her side and you think she is gravid and she doesnt want to eat.....then maybe she is gravid
adam

im going to make a video and try to post it on here so everyone can get a better idea of what im talking about.when i first seen her she weighed alittle over 5 pounds.now she weighs 4 1/2 and that was a month ago when she weighed over 5lbs.but let me try to get a vid of her.

has she been treated for mites in the past? Skip is right it could be anything but I believe IBD she would have expired by mow a couple of moths is usually all it takes. Personally I'd look to accidental poisoning if there has been mites in her recent past. Poisoning is far too common, although there are about 1000 other possible culprits. A vet trip is needed, cultures and x-rays.

Is the other ball she shared with at the store sick it would have shown symptoms of IBD quickly it Royals it comes on fast.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

has she been treated for mites in the past? Skip is right it could be anything but I believe IBD she would have expired by mow a couple of moths is usually all it takes. Personally I'd look to accidental poisoning if there has been mites in her recent past. Poisoning is far too common, although there are about 1000 other possible culprits. A vet trip is needed, cultures and x-rays.

Is the other ball she shared with at the store sick it would have shown symptoms of IBD quickly it Royals it comes on fast.

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put it this way.all there main reptiles are in the same room and some of them share tanks such as boas with ball pythons,and and lizzards there all in the same 5x8 room in glass tanks.nice display but no vents for fresh air only when the sliding door opens.all the other snakes look good shes the only one that seems this way.now i got diffrent answears from diff employes when asked when she ate or history on her.she was brought in from someone that didnt want her i guess from what i was told so they dont even know anything on her.

they told me she ate a week after they got her and looked at there feeding records but when i check on her a few weeks later they said she didnt eat and then when i finaly got her they said she hasnt ate in over a month.she shows no sign of runny stools,no crusties around her bottom.seems alert but shows no intrest in mice,rats,and asf rats.she doesnt move around curiously like most do.she doesnt seem strong. very limp.the ownwers son said he was going to freeze her thats what he told my wife and thats why i bought her yesterday.im looking for a reptile vet in my area and so far all the one i found dont deal with reptiles.so i keep looking till i get a hold of this breeder i know that has everything to treat reptiles and his wife is a vet. so she will be in good hands.

JUST A NOTE:this pet shop i stoped buying things from because all there supplies are old and dusty,mice and rats are chewed up from fighting and look sick at times,also every time i bought a mouse they had mites and gave them to my snkes.all my snakes are mite free because i breed my own rodents now. all the pet shops around me need a lesson on keeping animals and how to keep a shop clean and fresh but why doesnt code enforcement or who ever deals with animals do something about shops that are bad?

hope this works
http://imageshack.us/clip/my-videos/577/6w2.mp4/

http://imageshack.us/clip/my-videos/831/8pr.mp4/

That's pretty weird. something is causing that and its not good. a vet should look at it. and if it is something serious I'd go back and tell the owners of the store. but judging by ur other post it seems like these people just don't care about their animals. hope the big girl makes it.

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Originally Posted by mpkeelee

That's pretty weird. something is causing that and its not good. a vet should look at it. and if it is something serious I'd go back and tell the owners of the store. but judging by ur other post it seems like these people just don't care about their animals. hope the big girl makes it.

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thanks.i hope so too.

She does almost look gravid in the video...Ridged spine and swollen lower 1/3 of her body (could also explain the not eating). As for her problem...I have no idea, but good luck. It seems very odd.

http://imageshack.us/clip/my-videos/545/7ci.mp4/

http://imageshack.us/clip/my-videos/84/kew.mp4/

http://imageshack.us/clip/my-videos/163/r5q.mp4/

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Originally Posted by DemmBalls

She does almost look gravid in the video...Ridged spine and swollen lower 1/3 of her body (could also explain the not eating). As for her problem...I have no idea, but good luck. It seems very odd.

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thanks.

That is quite odd. Personally I don't believe IBD is kills quickly and other animals would be showing evidence of it as well. It don't look like poisoning to me either (I have only seen images and vids so that is far from certain) but from what I have seen there is a much more issues than what appears to be in your animal. She does have a pregnant look to her. The weak muscles are a problem and the odd way she holds herself as well. Does she have swelling around her vent? It could be bacterial but I am guessing. A vet even with no experience whom is willing to take a look at her will be able to run cultures. I really have no other ideas. I wish I did she is quite a good looking animal. Her not feeding could be a breeding season response. But a weak body is not a good.

I posted before the other videos, it might be poison too perhaps. I am guessing we all are guessing really. I hope that someones guesses are better. sorry.

looks lik possible gravid but the body response to toucvh and such it like she got some issues from either a overheating or posisible chem posioning ( like used for killing roachs or something . might of even picked it up before she came to pet shop )

I still say she needs a vet ASAP. Whether it's your friend who is a vet or another vet, the longer you wait the more damage will be done. Hope she pulls through for you though.

my friend breeder and his wife the vet came to my house and injected her with baytro/baytrill one of those words and tubed fed her with calcium,baby food,and water mixed shes on a liquid diet for a week and next shots are due in 3 days.he said theres a 50/50 chance she will make it but he said he had one of his spiders ball that was worst then her pull through doing the same method.she has a mite problem thats under control and will be geting a nice warm soaking and r-n-r tomorrow.im praying to the snake god she pulls through.ill keep you guys up to date on her.:please:

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Originally Posted by FINGAZZ

she has a mite problem thats under control and will be geting a nice warm soaking and r-n-r tomorrow.im praying to the snake god she pulls through.ill keep you guys up to date on her.:please:

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mite not a problem you controll you need some povent a mite and treat the entire cage , you can transport a mite on your clothes to your other snakes very easy . I had it happen to me I picked one up at the pets shop and next thing I knew all my snakes had them. it was a mess.

Hi,

I would also ask the shop that sold her to you if they had seen mites and treated her with anything.

What are you using to control the mites at the moment?


dr del

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Originally Posted by FINGAZZ

my friend breeder and his wife the vet came to my house and injected her with baytro/baytrill one of those words and tubed fed her with calcium,baby food,and water mixed shes on a liquid diet for a week and next shots are due in 3 days.he said theres a 50/50 chance she will make it but he said he had one of his spiders ball that was worst then her pull through doing the same method.she has a mite problem thats under control and will be geting a nice warm soaking and r-n-r tomorrow.im praying to the snake god she pulls through.ill keep you guys up to date on her.:please:

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Baytril is an antibiotic.

What type of infection do they think she has?

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

I would also ask the shop that sold her to you if they had seen mites and treated her with anything.

What are you using to control the mites at the moment?


dr del

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THATS FUNNY.i went to the shop to look at the other snake to see if they were showing signs like hers.when i look at there snakes they were covered i mean covered with mites and one had a resp problem so the had these snake in a 10gal tank in the same closed room and they said they are quarantined.i was like wow.i could actualy see mites on the floor and display cages.im useing mite off i used it in the past and took care the problem then.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Baytril is an antibiotic.

What type of infection do they think she has?

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she showing early signs of Respiratory.no bubbles yet but a slight weez.

Hi,

I was actually asking as there have been a few similar reports from when people poisoned their snake with supposed mite treatments.

I haven't reallty heard any good reports about mite off's effectiveness long term either.

I would suggest getting a can of Provent-a-mite and following the instructions precisely. I might even say it could be a good idea to email the makers describing the symptoms of your snake and getting their opinion on applying mite treatment at this time.


dr del

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

I was actually asking as there have been a few similar reports from when people poisoned their snake with supposed mite treatments.

I haven't reallty heard any good reports about mite off's effectiveness long term either.

I would suggest getting a can of Provent-a-mite and following the instructions precisely. I might even say it could be a good idea to email the makers describing the symptoms of your snake and getting their opinion on applying mite treatment at this time.


dr del

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ill look into that. i used the mite off for over a yr now with no problems.befor i had my collection i had only one snake and she had mites due to te pet shop i got them from.since then i been breeding my own and havent had mites since treatment and breeding my own food.

I totally agree with dr del. Get Provent-a-Mite. It is the #1 best thing for mites hands down. Mites could be causing her neurological symptoms. Snakes that are infested can become anemic from blood loss (no kidding!) and anemia will cause weakness. I'm not saying this is definitely what's causing her problems, but it really could be.

You can get PAM directly from the manufacturer, Pro-Products. It isn't too expensive and well worth having it on-hand.

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Originally Posted by Evenstar

I totally agree with dr del. Get Provent-a-Mite. It is the #1 best thing for mites hands down. Mites could be causing her neurological symptoms. Snakes that are infested can become anemic from blood loss (no kidding!) and anemia will cause weakness. I'm not saying this is definitely what's causing her problems, but it really could be.

You can get PAM directly from the manufacturer, Pro-Products. It isn't too expensive and well worth having it on-hand.

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ill deff pick some up.i think thats the problem with her just as you stated.hopfuly the baytro shots and tube feeding will keep her strong enough to fight of her sickness.so far she a fighter but who knows how long she been fighting before i got her.hope she doesnt give up.thanks tho...

IBD is transferred by mites as well but I'd look to poisoning myself. So the first question are there any mites at all. Check the vent eyes and water dish for drown ones. I would not treat a snake possibly suffering from a toxicological response with more toxins. P-A-M is a toxin and although many use it safely on healthy snakes I'd avoid it in one possibly suffering from an over exposure of quite likely the same chemical, Permethrin, which is a very common pesticide so it is quite possibly the first choice if the snake has been poisoned. Poison seems to be the most likely choice given the information we have currently. Dr.J Rossi suggests using a mix of ivermectin and water at 1/2 to litre it is hard to mix so shaking is required spray on snake and inside and outside the cage it is also injectable but that is not as safe. Only treat for mites if there are mites.

The msds sheet for P-A-M (aka, Cic residual pressurized insecticide no. v)
states the use of eye shields and neoprene gloves and impervious clothing is required during use.

http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_...7#Registration

msds for Cic residual pressurized insecticide no. v the parent product.

http://hazard.com/msds/f2/bkl/bklmm.html

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

IBD is transferred by mites as well but I'd look to poisoning myself. So the first question are there any mites at all. Check the vent eyes and water dish for drown ones. I would not treat a snake possibly suffering from a toxicological response with more toxins. P-A-M is a toxin and although many use it safely on healthy snakes I'd avoid it in one possibly suffering from an over exposure of quite likely the same chemical, Permethrin, which is a very common pesticide so it is quite possibly the first choice if the snake has been poisoned. Poison seems to be the most likely choice given the information we have currently. Dr.J Rossi suggests using a mix of ivermectin and water at 1/2 to litre it is hard to mix so shaking is required spray on snake and inside and outside the cage it is also injectable but that is not as safe. Only treat for mites if there are mites.

The msds sheet for P-A-M (aka, Cic residual pressurized insecticide no. v)
states the use of eye shields and neoprene gloves and impervious clothing is required during use.

http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_...7#Registration

msds for Cic residual pressurized insecticide no. v the parent product.

http://hazard.com/msds/f2/bkl/bklmm.html

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so in other words dont use it..what i have done so far to her. is spray her with mite off then i soaked her the next day .gave her a baytro shot and another one will be given tomorrow.i tube fed her with calsium powder,baby food,pedialite,mixed with water.she showing a little bit more life in her.shes moving parts of her lower half from touch.she didnt do that when i got her.so ill keep doing what my buddy says to do. he had a spider that was worst then her and did the shots,tube feeding,etc.all i can do is hope she bites me and has a bowl movment.yes i said bites me.lol if she did that i know shes geting stronger.i put a small rat in her cage and she gets very alert but no strike.shes still weak.but every day seems to show a good sign.all i can do is pamper her and look after her and hope for the her to pull through.thanks tho for the info.

Does she have mites at all? Any evidence ?


I'd avoid all chemicals unless there is a sign of mites. Normally a mite treatment isn't a problem but until you have tested the snake to be sure what is wrong I'd avoid all chemicals in case she has been poisoned it isn't an uncommon occurrence, people fail to read and follow the directions on all sort of chemicals (P-A-M being only one) and end up having all kinds of problems.

Mixing bleach with rust remover for example... that makes chlorine gas that was used as a chemical weapon in WW1. My brother works for poison control he see than exact one once a moth or more.