Does anyone keep their rodents in the house?

I am re-building after my move and I am considering picking up 8 racks totaling 51 tubs. I plan to run 1-4 or 1.5 per tub.

Does anyone do something like that in their house?

I have 4 spare bedrooms and I have a 1000 ft partially finished (has an insulated and finished floor) attic that I can use.
I am just worried about smell and escapees.

Does anyone else do this and how does it work?

You need to have a hungry cat in that room for escapees and LOTS of time to change those racks. I have not kept breeding groups of rats in the house but if I did they would need to be changed at least twice a week. There is no getting around it rats stink. BAD. I'm not kidding about the hungry cat. Literally feed her/him rat pups daily as their meals and give them a can of wet chow twice a week you will have no problem with escapees. ( I ran this by my vet to make sure it is healthy and he said absolutely but the cat must be wormed monthly)

Interesting. I actually keep my cats in their own room. I'm wondering if keeping the rats in the room that the cats are in, would be a good idea.

I don't work and am home all day so I can change bedding.

Interesting idea with the cats...

I wouldn't...The smell sticks.
And, they will escape, and cause havoc.

My rodents been in my house for 4 years now in same room as snakes. Proper ventilation and good pine pellets will keep smell down.

No one knows i have rodents in house till cleaning day when im lugging out the bedding..

Breeding rats inside the house is a big no no the smell really does stick to everything especially clothes. I wouldn't do it.

droid!!!!

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Originally Posted by Emilio

Breeding rats inside the house is a big no no the smell really does stick to everything especially clothes. I wouldn't do it.

droid!!!!

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If you let the smell escalate to the point it stink of ammonia and no ventilation then yea. My friends that come over never know i had rodents in house till i told them... And they had to see it to believe me..

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

If you let the smell escalate to the point it stink of ammonia and no ventilation then yea. My friends that come over never know i had rodents in house till i told them... And they had to see it to believe me..

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I've never tried the pellets I might have to. When I was producing about 150 rats and 60 asfs a month I had to clean every three days cause if I didn't the smell was unbearable. I'm also in a much hotter climate down here.



droid!!!!

Summer time the snake room reaches 88 if Central air is off. So i run a fan to suck out smells if needed. But the pine pellets in winter give me good 7 days between cleanings and in summer i get 4 days..


if i lived down south and had a nice garage to keep outside problems away from my snakes food id keep them outside to free up the space for more snakes. But being in Michigan and getting -10F i cant do that..


One you try the pine pellets youll never go back to shavings...

I have a room in the basement dedicated to the rodents, the room in question has a garage door and an exhaust fan.

Between pine pellets and exhaust fan there is no smell anywhere else in the house. :gj:

I dont know if I'd keep 51 tubs worth of rats in the house... But I currently keep 1 rack of 7 tubs and 1.3 groups in each tub in my snake room. I change bedding 1-2 times a week and so far it hasn't been bad. My snake room hold venomous animals, so the room is sealed off pretty well, so that might have something to do with it too. But staying on top of cleaning the is key I think. Very manageable with 7 tubs... 51 possibly not so much...

Got about 500 ASFs in the garage at the moment and the smell isn't too bad at all. I only have to clean every week or so, alternating between spot cleaning with the shop vac and total bedding replacement.

I did use to keep 2 small racks in the laundry room but the smell was horrible. It would travel down the hallway to the bedroom and I'd smell it while trying to sleep.

I built a room in the basement, 20 mice tubs and 30 rat tubs, I get about a week out of a pine pellet/shaving mix. I have to run a dehumidifier, bout it.

I keep a colony of around 50 breeders in my attic right now. There's a window box fan that I use during the summer. In the winter I just crack the window a bit. Cages are changes every other day. I hate the smell and I have a generous brother/employee that I have do the fun stuff Like that. Although when it was just me I spot cleaned daily with my shop vac. if you walked into that attic and didn't go around the corner to that area you would never smell them.

I've tried the pine pellets, I didn't like them at all. Felt like I was wasting them when I cleaned, and I didn't find a difference at all in keeping the odor down. I tried straight pellets, and a mix of pellet and shavings, and just didn't care for it.
I hear ya on the smell and heat from rodents in Florida.... I'm from Orlando, and my rodent smell is about half of what it was down in the humidity of Florida. I'll never go back!

The more rats in a tub the faster the wood will soil. Think of 4 or 5 humans living in a bathroom. Keep 1.2 or 1.3 in a tub. Kiln dried cedar is the best for odor, I can change it at most 3 wks and it still does not stink but is really yellow. My breeders live 2-3 yrs on cedar and i switched from pine 4 yrs ago. Rats would die in a yr from resperatory problems on pine, plus you have to change it every week if not sooner. Its a waste you use more and waste money. I have 2 freedom breeder racks one with 15 adult tubs the other has 18 small rat tubs all in an upstairs bedroom. Like the other guy no one knows i have 100s of rats in my house until i show them. ARS snake racks also in the same room. Usually change every 2 wks, momma tubs and weiner tubs can go longer. The people who complain about cedar have never used it. Check the bags and get kiln dried only. Snakes eat the rat not the wood, if they do its the aspen in there own tub. I have never had a snake die or get sick from eating rats on kiln dried cedar.

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Originally Posted by mmateo

The more rats in a tub the faster the wood will soil. Think of 4 or 5 humans living in a bathroom. Keep 1.2 or 1.3 in a tub. Kiln dried cedar is the best for odor, I can change it at most 3 wks and it still does not stink but is really yellow. My breeders live 2-3 yrs on cedar and i switched from pine 4 yrs ago. Rats would die in a yr from resperatory problems on pine, plus you have to change it every week if not sooner. Its a waste you use more and waste money. I have 2 freedom breeder racks one with 15 adult tubs the other has 18 small rat tubs all in an upstairs bedroom. Like the other guy no one knows i have 100s of rats in my house until i show them. ARS snake racks also in the same room. Usually change every 2 wks, momma tubs and weiner tubs can go longer. The people who complain about cedar have never used it. Check the bags and get kiln dried only. Snakes eat the rat not the wood, if they do its the aspen in there own tub. I have never had a snake die or get sick from eating rats on kiln dried cedar.

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Wait, you'd have respiratory infections using kiln dried pine, but not with kiln dried cedar?

Pine is not going to cause problems more than if using cedar. Ive seen too many animals drop dead when kept on cedar its not funny.

Pine emits ammonia in days cedar takes weeks, breathing the ammonia kills the rats. Cedar holds more and doesnt soil as fast as the pine. Look at the chips its an obvious difference. If pine chips were as big as cedar chips it would work better. Read and believe what you want like i said you obviously have not used it. Oh yea never feed a snake a live rat it will kill your snake...5 yrs of rat breeding is proof enough for me unless yoiu like wasting pine and money cleaning every other day

the amonia of their piss is one thing but the phenol oils emitted off cedar is off the charts and causes respiratory problems in almost all mammals including rodents.

Ive used it back in the old days before i seen the effects it does to animals. Ive seen dogs drop dead in their kennels whhen cedar is laid out. And i been breeding rodents for good 7 years now and always use pine.

theres guys on here been breeding longer than me with thousands of rats on pine. I pay about 3$ for a 5cu ft bag of pine that expands to 8cu ft. How is that wasting money when that will clean a good 50 cages.

Lets see some pictures of your so called healthy rodents and them kept on cedar. Better yet lets see video and see if we hear any sniffles or sneezes coming from them..

Been breeding rodents commercially for over 20years, off and on. Cedar is bad, plain and simple. Great for odor control, yes, but bad for rodents...
You won't get respiratory problems with pine, as long as it's kiln dried. It's all I use...

Nobody is saying that feeding a snake a rat raised on cedar will kill the snake. We're stating that using cedar is bad for the animals that are being kept on it....

Not to mention, the bigger the wood chips, the worse they actually help odor control. If you use a big shaving versus a small chip, the odor will start up quicker. I think you have it backwards...

i have a 6 tub rack with 3 tubs of 1.3 groups on kiln dried pine and 2 tubs of growups and i clean every 3 days to keep the smell down you can't smell them in the house at all till day 3-4 then it starts to stink. But you can't tell unless you walk in the room.

I kept them in the house and they did stink. That is one of the reasons why I switched to frozen.

I didn't need a cat for escaped rodents. I had a B&W Columbian tegu that was more than happy to serve as my bounty hunter. He was a far better mouser than most cats I've ever known.

The Toxicity of Pine Shavings

There is strong scientific evidence that pine shavings are harmful to the health of rodents. Both these softwood shavings give off aromatic hydrocarbons (phenols) and acids that are toxic. The phenols, which give the shavings their scent, is the reason why pine-oil is the major ingredient in Pine-sol brand disinfectant. In the laboratory, autoclaved pine shavings have been shown to inhibit the growth of micro-organisms. When animals are exposed to softwood shavings the aromatic hydrocarbons are absorbed through the respiratory tract and enter the blood.

The acids given off by pine shavings are very damaging to the respiratory tract. These acids can actually destroy cells that line the lungs and trachea. This has significant implications for rats since the most common diseases in pet rats are respiratory infections. Many owners of pet rats have reported the improvement of respiratory problems when they have switched their pets to a bedding other than pine shavings.
Pine toxins also affect humans and other animals. People who work in pine sawmills have a much higher incidence of asthma compared to workers in other dusty environments or those without any dust exposure. Another study found that chickens kept on softwood shavings had a higher incidence of respiratory infections.
Pine toxins affect more than the respiratory tract. Several studies have shown that rodents kept on softwood beddings have elevated levels of liver enzymes. The liver is the body's detoxification system, and elevated liver enzymes indicate that the body is working harder to eliminate toxins. In mice these enzymes started rising after only 24 hours exposure to pine shavings and only returned to normal when the mice were away from the shavings for 12 days. If pine shavings are heat-treated or soaked in a solvent, so that some of the phenols are removed, the effects are not as great, but still occur.
One study showed that the mortality of rat pups raised on pine shavings was tremendously high compared to rat pups raised on corn cob or aspen shavings. Of the pups raised on pine shavings, 56% were dead by 2 weeks of age, while only 0.01% of the pups raised on the other beddings died. The pine-raised pups also weighed about 23% less than the other pups (10).
Exposure to toxins is a stress on the body and constant stress can result in depressed or altered immune function. A study done in 1991 found that mice kept on pine shavings for only a month had a more highly reactive immune response. Mice kept on pine shavings for 8 months developed abnormally enlarged livers. This same study found that mice housed on pine shavings also had a decrease in reproduction rate. When given free choice of beddings, rats and mice reject pine shavings in favor of any other type of beddings.
There are also other dangers from softwood shavings. A study found that people in the woodworking industry who are exposed to softwood dust have a higher incidence of squamous cell cancers of the respiratory tract. A German study found that workers exposed to pine dust had more than a three-fold increased risk of glottal cancer.
Some claim that pine shavings which are heat-treated are safe because the heat drives off the toxins. There are currently products being sold, notably All-Pet Pine, Feline Pine, and Pine Fresh, that claim to be free of toxins. However, the studies found that heat treatment did not remove all the toxins from the wood. Heat-treated shavings still caused a rise in liver enzymes in rats and mice.
Pine shavings are often defended with the claim that customers are not forced to buy them. However, most rodent owners are not aware of the toxins in pine shavings. They assume that if a product is offered for sale, it must be safe. But just because pine shavings have been traditional and popular beddings does not mean they are safe. There is strong scientific evidence that pine shavings cause harm to rodents. Because of the toxic effects of softwood shavings, laboratories have pretty much stopped using them for their animals.

Your argument is the same thing that can be found from reading sites from others opinions and so on. Its nothing new and nothing scientific about it.

Just food for thought, aspen contains Phenols as well. Pine is fine to use for rodents as i been doing so 7 years. theres breeders using Pine for snakes for 10+ years no problems.

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Originally Posted by mmateo

The Toxicity of Pine Shavings

There is strong scientific evidence that pine shavings are harmful to the health of rodents. Both these softwood shavings give off aromatic hydrocarbons (phenols) and acids that are toxic. The phenols, which give the shavings their scent, is the reason why pine-oil is the major ingredient in Pine-sol brand disinfectant. In the laboratory, autoclaved pine shavings have been shown to inhibit the growth of micro-organisms. When animals are exposed to softwood shavings the aromatic hydrocarbons are absorbed through the respiratory tract and enter the blood.

The acids given off by pine shavings are very damaging to the respiratory tract. These acids can actually destroy cells that line the lungs and trachea. This has significant implications for rats since the most common diseases in pet rats are respiratory infections. Many owners of pet rats have reported the improvement of respiratory problems when they have switched their pets to a bedding other than pine shavings.
Pine toxins also affect humans and other animals. People who work in pine sawmills have a much higher incidence of asthma compared to workers in other dusty environments or those without any dust exposure. Another study found that chickens kept on softwood shavings had a higher incidence of respiratory infections.
Pine toxins affect more than the respiratory tract. Several studies have shown that rodents kept on softwood beddings have elevated levels of liver enzymes. The liver is the body's detoxification system, and elevated liver enzymes indicate that the body is working harder to eliminate toxins. In mice these enzymes started rising after only 24 hours exposure to pine shavings and only returned to normal when the mice were away from the shavings for 12 days. If pine shavings are heat-treated or soaked in a solvent, so that some of the phenols are removed, the effects are not as great, but still occur.
One study showed that the mortality of rat pups raised on pine shavings was tremendously high compared to rat pups raised on corn cob or aspen shavings. Of the pups raised on pine shavings, 56% were dead by 2 weeks of age, while only 0.01% of the pups raised on the other beddings died. The pine-raised pups also weighed about 23% less than the other pups (10).
Exposure to toxins is a stress on the body and constant stress can result in depressed or altered immune function. A study done in 1991 found that mice kept on pine shavings for only a month had a more highly reactive immune response. Mice kept on pine shavings for 8 months developed abnormally enlarged livers. This same study found that mice housed on pine shavings also had a decrease in reproduction rate. When given free choice of beddings, rats and mice reject pine shavings in favor of any other type of beddings.
There are also other dangers from softwood shavings. A study found that people in the woodworking industry who are exposed to softwood dust have a higher incidence of squamous cell cancers of the respiratory tract. A German study found that workers exposed to pine dust had more than a three-fold increased risk of glottal cancer.
Some claim that pine shavings which are heat-treated are safe because the heat drives off the toxins. There are currently products being sold, notably All-Pet Pine, Feline Pine, and Pine Fresh, that claim to be free of toxins. However, the studies found that heat treatment did not remove all the toxins from the wood. Heat-treated shavings still caused a rise in liver enzymes in rats and mice.
Pine shavings are often defended with the claim that customers are not forced to buy them. However, most rodent owners are not aware of the toxins in pine shavings. They assume that if a product is offered for sale, it must be safe. But just because pine shavings have been traditional and popular beddings does not mean they are safe. There is strong scientific evidence that pine shavings cause harm to rodents. Because of the toxic effects of softwood shavings, laboratories have pretty much stopped using them for their animals.

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So you read the study so did I, now my question is this, what is YOUR hand on experience with rat breeding, pine pellets and pine shaving?

Geez, when are people gonna stop quoting crap? I mean come on, I can post to the internet.

I've been raising rodents since 1985 on PINE, if I were losing 56% of my rat pups due to the use of pine, I'd hope I were smart enough not to use it anymore.

If you want to know what people use, and their experience with it, ask. Don't post a decades old publication on someone's opinion, that you know nothing about, or the motives for writing it.

I mean, seriously, I don't go out of my way to liver enzyme tests on my rodent population, but I do know that my rodents live a good life on pine with no RI's or other obvious signs of sickness.

If you want to find out the Campbell soup causes bowel obstructions in 15% of the population of a small species of pygmy elephant in Siberia, I can probably help construct a paper on it for you....

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Originally Posted by reptilegirl07

I am re-building after my move and I am considering picking up 8 racks totaling 51 tubs. I plan to run 1-4 or 1.5 per tub.

Does anyone do something like that in their house?

I have 4 spare bedrooms and I have a 1000 ft partially finished (has an insulated and finished floor) attic that I can use.
I am just worried about smell and escapees.

Does anyone else do this and how does it work?

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I know this is an old post, but I just read it for the first time. Four spare bedrooms? Holy cow, that must be a big house

Mine are inside too, but they are in the basement in their own room-with the snakes. I use pine pellets for the tubs with lots of rats, and pine shavings for the moms with babies. The pellets work wonders!

I currently have a 28 tub mouse rack in the basement with a second 26 tub mouse/rat combination rack almost finished. Keep all the mice on pine pellets and the few rats I have on pine shavings. The mouse tubs are always full with no smell. I clean once a week.

the only thing i kept in the house were gerbils and that was just one breeding pair, other than that all my rats are in their own building, snakes though are all in my bedroom in a rack :snake:

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

My rodents been in my house for 4 years now in same room as snakes. Proper ventilation and good pine pellets will keep smell down.

No one knows i have rodents in house till cleaning day when im lugging out the bedding..

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I have to say thanks Rich the pine pellets are awesome your right I think its the best option for rodent breeding hands down.



droid!!!!

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Originally Posted by Emilio

I have to say thanks Rich the pine pellets are awesome your right I think its the best option for rodent breeding hands down.



droid!!!!

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Emilio Pine pellet are great I have used them for years and would never switch back either, just remember to use 50% pellets and 50% shavings with mother who are nursing babies under 2 weeks of age (pellets Aline would be too dusty)

Also remember a little goes a long way!

This is one side of my laundry room in my basement. The other side (not pictured) is mice. I have a small window cracked for air circulation, but don't have a fan.

http://www.dailybulldogs.com/message/racks/img_0889.jpg

I don't have any problem with smell. I clean my tubs once a week.

My tricks:
I don't overcrowd them. (I run 2-3 rats in a concrete tub)
I do a full bedding change once a week and spray each tub out with a bleach solution.
I line the bottom of my tubs with newspaper before I add pine shavings.

I notice a slight smell when entering the room close to cleaning day, but I am never able to smell them in the rest of the house.

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Originally Posted by koloo921

I do a full bedding change once a week

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What do you do with all of that used bedding? I'm starting to get embarrassed at having 4 smelly contractor bags out in front of my house every week, and I don't really want to put that nastiness in my car. :colbert:

i keep mine in the house because i live in the desert and gets 110 in the summer and really cold in the winter

My rack is in my bedroom. I have too many other pets for it to work otherwise. :P

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Originally Posted by spitzu

What do you do with all of that used bedding? I'm starting to get embarrassed at having 4 smelly contractor bags out in front of my house every week, and I don't really want to put that nastiness in my car. :colbert:

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My Step Dad has a business 4 miles from my house. He lets me use his dumpster;) I have a truck with a cap on it. I would not want that stuff in a car either.

i breed the mice and rats in my back room kinda like a back porch.. its not TOOOO bad but cleaning is def a chore... if u let it go too long u can start to notice it.. but we have a small house right now.. im building a shed 10x14 that i may move them tooo im just concerned about being able to keep shed warm enough during our winter when temps drop to 0 or below 0 UGH i need to move to warmer state lol !!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mmateo

The Toxicity of Pine Shavings

There is strong scientific evidence that pine shavings are harmful to the health of rodents. Both these softwood shavings give off aromatic hydrocarbons (phenols) and acids that are toxic. The phenols, which give the shavings their scent, is the reason why pine-oil is the major ingredient in Pine-sol brand disinfectant. In the laboratory, autoclaved pine shavings have been shown to inhibit the growth of micro-organisms. When animals are exposed to softwood shavings the aromatic hydrocarbons are absorbed through the respiratory tract and enter the blood.

The acids given off by pine shavings are very damaging to the respiratory tract. These acids can actually destroy cells that line the lungs and trachea. This has significant implications for rats since the most common diseases in pet rats are respiratory infections. Many owners of pet rats have reported the improvement of respiratory problems when they have switched their pets to a bedding other than pine shavings.
Pine toxins also affect humans and other animals. People who work in pine sawmills have a much higher incidence of asthma compared to workers in other dusty environments or those without any dust exposure. Another study found that chickens kept on softwood shavings had a higher incidence of respiratory infections.
Pine toxins affect more than the respiratory tract. Several studies have shown that rodents kept on softwood beddings have elevated levels of liver enzymes. The liver is the body's detoxification system, and elevated liver enzymes indicate that the body is working harder to eliminate toxins. In mice these enzymes started rising after only 24 hours exposure to pine shavings and only returned to normal when the mice were away from the shavings for 12 days. If pine shavings are heat-treated or soaked in a solvent, so that some of the phenols are removed, the effects are not as great, but still occur.
One study showed that the mortality of rat pups raised on pine shavings was tremendously high compared to rat pups raised on corn cob or aspen shavings. Of the pups raised on pine shavings, 56% were dead by 2 weeks of age, while only 0.01% of the pups raised on the other beddings died. The pine-raised pups also weighed about 23% less than the other pups (10).
Exposure to toxins is a stress on the body and constant stress can result in depressed or altered immune function. A study done in 1991 found that mice kept on pine shavings for only a month had a more highly reactive immune response. Mice kept on pine shavings for 8 months developed abnormally enlarged livers. This same study found that mice housed on pine shavings also had a decrease in reproduction rate. When given free choice of beddings, rats and mice reject pine shavings in favor of any other type of beddings.
There are also other dangers from softwood shavings. A study found that people in the woodworking industry who are exposed to softwood dust have a higher incidence of squamous cell cancers of the respiratory tract. A German study found that workers exposed to pine dust had more than a three-fold increased risk of glottal cancer.
Some claim that pine shavings which are heat-treated are safe because the heat drives off the toxins. There are currently products being sold, notably All-Pet Pine, Feline Pine, and Pine Fresh, that claim to be free of toxins. However, the studies found that heat treatment did not remove all the toxins from the wood. Heat-treated shavings still caused a rise in liver enzymes in rats and mice.
Pine shavings are often defended with the claim that customers are not forced to buy them. However, most rodent owners are not aware of the toxins in pine shavings. They assume that if a product is offered for sale, it must be safe. But just because pine shavings have been traditional and popular beddings does not mean they are safe. There is strong scientific evidence that pine shavings cause harm to rodents. Because of the toxic effects of softwood shavings, laboratories have pretty much stopped using them for their animals.

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I want to get away from pine myself. Could I use shredded paper?

You can use shredded paper. I tried that but it gets saturated fast and smells bad.

I've been using pine for many years with no adverse side affects.

I wouldn't use anything else. I just make sure the pine I use doesn't have a strong smell or a lot of dust.

Fair enough. Just wonder what makes mine get red eyes and noses when all is clean and there are no stress factors.

Sent from my NookColor using Tapatalk

i use pine and have had no problems at all. i do complete bedding changes every 3 days sometimes 4. i myself get irritated from cedar so why would i put my rats on it?
i breed them in the basement and my snake will be down there soon. ive been contemplating using pellets but have not yet.
adam jeffery