Keep Michael Vick off the cover of Madden '12

It's no secret that Philadelphia QB Mike Vick isn't well liked buy a lot of us due to his actions in dog fighting. And if you didn't know, he is 1 step away from being on the cover of the Madden '12 football video game this year.

Good news is you have a chance to stop this from happening by going to the Madden '12 cover site and vote for Cleveland Browns RB Peyton Hillis. Here's a direct link below.

Spread the news and keep the dog killer off the cover......:gj:

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/feature/madden2012cover

If you believe in the Madden Curse... maybe you'll want him on the cover.

Not a gamer, but a no brainer

Voted for Hillis

You can vote multiple times by using private browsing in firefox and/or using incognito in google chrome. Should be in your settings....lol, get them votes in!!

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Originally Posted by MarkieJ

If you believe in the Madden Curse... maybe you'll want him on the cover.

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I'm a Steeler fan so win-win for me....lol

Wow really the guy served his time did whatever the courts wanted him to tell me you have never made a mistake in your life are people out to get you still... Now im not saying what he did was right in anyway shape or form nor do I condone what he did. Further more the cover of madden is based on you proformance not necessarily personal issues.. Madden 10 had a rapist on it but nobody cares about keeping him off the cover and in my book rape or any sex crime is worse than dog fighting so give it a rest let EA games put whomever they want on thier cover as long as the game is good

O and im a viking fan so no loyalties to the guy

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Originally Posted by frenchy

Wow really the guy served his time did whatever the courts wanted him to tell me you have never made a mistake in your life are people out to get you still... Now im not saying what he did was right in anyway shape or form nor do I condone what he did. Further more the cover of madden is based on you proformance not necessarily personal issues.. Madden 10 had a rapist on it but nobody cares about keeping him off the cover and in my book rape or any sex crime is worse than dog fighting so give it a rest let EA games put whomever they want on thier cover as long as the game is good

O and im a viking fan so no loyalties to the guy

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I must agree but being a firm believer of the MADDEN CURSE and an EAGLES FAN I dont want him on the cover either !!!!

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Originally Posted by PolishPython

I must agree but being a firm believer of the MADDEN CURSE and an EAGLES FAN I dont want him on the cover either !!!!

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Wow thank you for seeung my point of view and atleast your reason makes sense as I believe in it too lol

For those of us who can't stand football... What's the madden curse?

Agree that people should be allowed to change BUT... Animal abuse and taking pride in it is a sign of serious head troubles..

Just like children who get excited at the thought of killing and torturing small animals are shown to have severe mental issues later in life.

Ahhh the madden curse most the time when a football player is on the cover of madden the next football season the have a horrible season or get hurt or get in off the field trouble

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Originally Posted by frenchy

Wow really the guy served his time did whatever the courts wanted him to tell me you have never made a mistake in your life are people out to get you still...

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Just because our system gave him 2 years does NOT mean it was enough. It sure as hell doesn't mean that the slate is clean and everyone can go on like nothing ever happened. Are you kidding me?

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...He further admitted that he knew his colleagues killed several dogs who did not perform well. He admitted to being involved in the destruction of 6–8 dogs, by hanging or drowning.

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Understood I never said I agreed w what he did but when Ben Rothlisburger whom has been accused multiple times of RAPE was on the cover nobody cared just cyz he wasnt charged cuz he paid off the girls if Vick couldvhave paid someone off he would have and then there wouldnt be this issue

But as I also stated the cover of madden is proformance based not any other reason and vick had a way better year than hill


AGAIN I DONT AGREE W WHAT HE DID DONT LIKE IT ONE BIT HE SCREWD UP BUT HES DOIN HIS BEST TO CHANGE EVERYONES MIND.

think about it ben rapes someone that girl is scared for life but we all forget it kobe as well but all forgtten but dogs o never let him get passed it

So, in this thread we have people advocating lying and cheating to get the resluts they prefer.

Ok, got that.

Then there are some who are saying that the legal and justice systems are not right and that the people, some of them and apparently none of them on the jury that convicted him, think they should have the right to impose further penalties upon him.

Ok, got that.

Who are you guys again and why do you get this power?

Go Vick! I can't believe people are so quick to throw rocks. I'm sure everyone posting has led a "saintly" life. :rolleyes:

B

I'm sure the people here who at some point in their life may have lied, cheated, stolen, etc.. But I doubt those same people took pleasure in abusing and torturing another living thing, over and over and over...

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

I'm sure the people here who at some point in their life may have lied, cheated, stolen, etc.. But I doubt those same people took pleasure in abusing and torturing another living thing, over and over and over...

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Then it comes down to do you believe in our justice system. If you do, they while it is perfectly fine to voice your opinions about his sentence do you really think it's ok to judge him guilty of further crimes for what you think he felt, which he may have, and which he may not now feel.

Rat breeders cull rats. Horse breeders cull horses. vick did some stupid and cruel things, which as far as I know he has not repeated.

Didn't some of you give crutchfield a pass after he did time? Wanna bet on whether everything that passed through his hands after he got out was legit?

Seems to be a bit of double standard happening. No crutchfield didn't get convicted of cruelty to animals. But he was convicted of a crime that we KNOW kills thousands and thousands of animals every year. Some of them die is some dang cruel ways.

But I guess it's ok to have a double standard.

Unless you have some ethics stronger than a paper straw.

Some people place a higher value on animals than people. That's how PETA and its derivitives survive and grow. That's back asswards thinking in my book. Animals are animals. People are people. People > animals.

If your dog or a stranger was drowning, who would you save? If you even had to think about it you're a seriously deranged individual.

I've made terrible mistakes in my life like many people but at least I admit it. I definitely don't sit on a high and mighty pedastal and point at other people. Just my $.02...

B

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Originally Posted by Simple Man

If your dog or a stranger was drowning, who would you save? If you even had to think about it you're a seriously deranged individual.

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Maybe it 's just me, but my first thought was I'd save my dog and my second thought was maybe not but it would depend on how the person came to be drowning. Circumstances matter.

I hate Vick....aaaand I'm a packers fan. (I inherited it from my dad) It's the only football I watch. So yeah always happy to vote against vick.

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Originally Posted by Simple Man

Some people place a higher value on animals than people. That's how PETA and its derivitives survive and grow. That's back asswards thinking in my book. Animals are animals. People are people. People > animals.

If your dog or a stranger was drowning, who would you save? If you even had to think about it you're a seriously deranged individual.

I've made terrible mistakes in my life like many people but at least I admit it. I definitely don't sit on a high and mighty pedastal and point at other people. Just my $.02...

B

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Yeah....totally saving my dog.

Well, i am a Browns fan, so for that i am saying HELL NO!! HILLIS ALL THE WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

as to Vick, i have mixed emotions about him, i am a HUGE football fan, but i prefer animals over people any day.. i love animals, and i HATE WHAT VICK DID, but not him... he is an incredible football player and he deserves some positive recognition for his performance. he has had enough bad publicity and all that for what he did...

as a football fan, i think Vick has made an incredible comeback into the league and getting back into the game (only talking about on the field).

as a animal lover, still dont like what he did, but as mentioned above, he served his time, and im sure not all of you live perfect lives like we are suppose to... i know ive lied, cheated and stole before.

And since madden is a football game, i believe that it should ONLY look at the achievements made on the field, and keep personal/court stuff out of the voting...

so all and all I am still for Hillis, but i dont hate Vick for what he did. AS for the Madden curse, im not worried if Hillis get it, because lets face it... its the browns lol.. maybe it will work backwards! lol

Its over and done with and just so i can be clear, I DO NOT SUPPORT ANIMAL VIOLENCE IN ANY WAY!!

and just so i can rub it into yet another Steelers fan, GO PACKERS!!

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Originally Posted by frenchy

Wow really the guy served his time did whatever the courts wanted him to tell me you have never made a mistake in your life are people out to get you still... Now im not saying what he did was right in anyway shape or form nor do I condone what he did. Further more the cover of madden is based on you proformance not necessarily personal issues.. Madden 10 had a rapist on it but nobody cares about keeping him off the cover and in my book rape or any sex crime is worse than dog fighting so give it a rest let EA games put whomever they want on thier cover as long as the game is good

O and im a viking fan so no loyalties to the guy

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agreed except for the viking part im a cowboys fan and i personally loved it when they put McNabb on the cover so i think they definitely should put Vick on the cover

but serioulsy i know we are all animal lovers but we still kill animals everytime we feed our snakes so stop being so hypocritical we dont have dog fighting rings but we do have animals fighting for their life/hunger i know ill get yelled at about this but its the truth so deal wit it

Madden NFL `12 Michael Vick on the cover long live the Madden curse!!!!!!:banana:

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Originally Posted by SnakesNStangss22

as a football fan, i think Vick has made an incredible comeback into the league and getting back into the game (only talking about on the field).

as a animal lover, still dont like what he did, but as mentioned above, he served his time, and im sure not all of you live perfect lives like we are suppose to... i know ive lied, cheated and stole before.

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I'm not asking for him to lead a perfect life. I'm asking him not to brutally kill innocent animals...Thats not hard! Really not lying way harder. It's very easy not to throw a dog in a bath tub full of car batteries! Super easy!

2 years? thats a joke, and he didn't spend the entire time in jail either. he does 10? Okay I'll hear the forgiveness arguments. for 2? No he can get mauled by dogs and burn in hell.

I say put him on the cover cause all who been on the cover have an accident or get hurt or end up without a career so I say yes to that douche bag on the cover :)

lance

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Originally Posted by wilomn

So, in this thread we have people advocating lying and cheating to get the resluts they prefer.

Ok, got that.

Then there are some who are saying that the legal and justice systems are not right and that the people, some of them and apparently none of them on the jury that convicted him, think they should have the right to impose further penalties upon him.

Ok, got that.

Who are you guys again and why do you get this power?

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They are the voters Willy...and EA Sports gave them "this power" to VOTE!!!!!

BG will say this though. He agrees with you on many points, but he's too lazy to list them now. G night.

For those who don't know what the Madden curse is, it is believed the player on the cover will have a horrible season or be injured.

Here is the stats from the cover selections :
2010, Troy Polamalu/Larry Fitzgerald: Polamalu only played five games due to knee injuries, Steelers missed playoffs; Fitzgerald wasn’t affected much (97 receptions, 1,092 yards, 13 TD, Pro Bowl).
2009, Brett Favre: Feuded with Packers, traded to Jets, horrible down the stretch (lost 4 of last 5).
2008, Vince Young: Missed 1 game with quad injury; led Titans to first playoff appearance in four years.
2007, Shaun Alexander: Fractured foot, missed six games; fewer yards and TDs in '06 AND '07 than in '04 OR '05.
2006, Donovan McNabb: Sports hernia in first game, missed seven games; feuded with Terrell Owens all year; had been to five straight Pro Bowls, hasn't been since.
2005, Ray Lewis: Broke wrist, missed one game; first season without interception; missed 10 games next year with thigh injury.
2004, Michael Vick: Fractured fibula one day after video game was released, missed 11 games; Pro Bowl next 2 seasons; obvious issues since then.
2003, Marshall Faulk: Ankle injury, missed two games, never rushed for 1,000 yards again.
2002, Daunte Culpepper: 4-7 record before season-ending knee injury.
2001, Eddie George: Career season, but fumbled in playoffs as top-seeded Titans lost first game to Ravens.
2000, Barry Sanders: Retired one week before training camp.

Last year Brees was the cover guy. He finshed his SB followup without a loss of time injury and pretty muc had the same stats as the year before, except for interceptions. The Saints made it to the playoffs, but injuries all season really hurt them. His stats the cover year and and the year before:
G CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG TD LNG INT FUM RAT
2009 NO 15 363 514 70.6 4388 8.5 34 75 11 9 109.6
2010 NO 16 448 658 68.1 4620 7.0 33 80 22 9 90.9


I'd say Fitzgerald and Brees pretty much proved the curse doesn't exist.

As for the Vick situation, while I am ana animal lover, I think that what he did was wrong. But it seems to me that more people get up in arms over animal violence the the violence commited against people.

I tried to find it on the internet but was unable to, but I remember years ago a mother who was from California, I believe, being killed by a cougar. It turned out the place she was jogging was where this cougar had her kittens. The cougar was killed by fish and game. Fund raisers were held for the mother, who left behind 2 kids and for the care of the kittens. I remember, of all people, Howard Stern being outraged that the kittens recieved over a million dollars and the kids got something like 100,000 or so. Something is wrong when orphaned animals can raise more then orphaned humans!

I think Vick made a HUGE mistake, but served his time. He was sentanced to 23 months. Some drunk drivers who have killed someone get less jail time then Vick got for dogfighting. The average sentance for vehicular manslaughter. which is the charge for a drunk driver when he kills someone, in the US is 1-3 years ( although some states it is more) according to this site:
http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com...nslaughter.htm. Something is VERY wrong in that!

Oh and I'd vote for Peyton Hillis anyway. I drafted him as an after thought on draft day last year and he ended up helping me win my Fantasy league last year!

Priorities people..

Our world is falling apart... Seriously. And we are concerned about who's on the cover of Madden '12. Awesome.

We wonder whats wrong with the world..............

If we are gonna complain about something... lets at least complain about something worth complaining about.... like the ridiculous gas prices, or grocery prices, or the bill that could end our hobby.. c'mon. Power with numbers.... to bad we wanna use our numbers to complain about video games.

I have been sitting here thinking on how to answer this post without rubbing anyone the wrong way or should I move on to the next one...................... then I thought..........SCREW IT:twisted::twisted:

I have done a lot of things that most people would not be proud of or wouldnt want to talk about. So I am by far no saint. Though I have never screwed the innocent. Does that make me better than anyone else? No.

I cannot fathom the idea of how most people idolize these idiots?
I cannot understand why they get pain millions for what they do?
They run, jump, catch, throw, and bounce a ball!!!!!!
So can a monkey, dog, cat, or most any animal.
The difference is that the animals do it to entertain themselves and have fun.
These wastes of oxygen think it makes them better than everyone else, and mightier than thou.
I could go on and on about this but all it is going to do is raise my blood pressure:gj:
Cut these deadbeats pay by 75% from the proceeds from the games and turn that money over to the school districts!! Invest that money in our future, either teachers or supplies to teach our children! Then we might not be one of the stupidest nations in the world?

My a.d.d. is kicking in so before I go off on a tangent I wanted to answer one of the questions asked:
I would save my dog or any other animal before the human.
Why? We are capable of helping ourselves, and it was probably the human that put the animal in that situation.
I do value animals more than humans because they are better than we are, they dont destroy everything they touch. The human race is the biggest cancer on this planet!

I hate Vick. I think he is a terrible person. He served his time, yes. But, do I think he's changed. NO. I think, he plays the sympathy card to get people to like him. Guess what? It's working. And yes, the man can play some football. Guess what? He's been in freaking prison. He's had nothing to do for the past two years than train. Maybe we should extend the draft to inmates. I bet we could find some really good O-lines and defensive backs. I think he's a loser, and like most people getting out should be given $5.00 and told good luck.

I'm not sitting on my soap box judging him. It's just my choice. I am allowed to choose my friends and enemy's by their moral standards. It doesn't make me less of a person. After what he did, omg, the pictures. Such horror. You really think sitting behind bars for 2 yrs made him a better person.

And no, I do not beat the rats that I feed, or starve them, or drown them. Or, turn them into killing machines. I prefer them to be fat happy food. There is a big difference in a ball python eating naturally and the way animals are treated for dog fighting. I can not believe that was even used as a reference. Are you kidding me?

I think we'll be seeing Vick in his true self again. Maybe when he retires, and doesn't have to worry about his public figure. I guess we'll see.

Like it or not, the best thing to happen to help prevent dog-fighting was for Vick to get into it and get caught. Practically no one talked about dog fighting on the national stage before then, no attention was ever brought to it on the national stage.

I don't give two poops about football or the man, but football is no different than any other job out there.. except that it is less respectable than just about anything you need a degree for.

So what if he committed crimes? Who in football these days hasn't committed felonies? (seriously, the whole sport is made up of corrupt bad-guys) He plead guilty to state AND federal charges, and served his time. He shouldn't have to pay for it MORE simply because he is well-known.

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Originally Posted by Seru1

I'm not asking for him to lead a perfect life. I'm asking him not to brutally kill innocent animals...Thats not hard! Really not lying way harder. It's very easy not to throw a dog in a bath tub full of car batteries! Super easy!

2 years? thats a joke, and he didn't spend the entire time in jail either. he does 10? Okay I'll hear the forgiveness arguments. for 2? No he can get mauled by dogs and burn in hell.

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You should be glad he got 2 years... Look at OJ, he got away with killing a person, and a friend of mine, ran a stop sign and a semi driver avoided killing him, running into a tree and died. He got no jail time at all for killing a dad with three kids behind. How is that fair for the family. Their dad gets killed, and the driver continues on with life?! Our court system is completely messed up and that is terrible.

Vick has made some f-ed up choices thats a fact... but does that mean he has the rest of his life to pay for it?

i know its not the same, but i got a aggravated assault charge on me when i was 18, ... long story short some guy kept flirting/touching my fiancée... after a while i took my bowling ball and hit the guy, im saying i did my time, and served my punishment, its over with and done... people should not keep dwelling on the past.

I'm done with this thread, but once again, go Hillis.

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

Like it or not, the best thing to happen to help prevent dog-fighting was for Vick to get into it and get caught. Practically no one talked about dog fighting on the national stage before then, no attention was ever brought to it on the national stage.

I don't give two poops about football or the man, but football is no different than any other job out there.. except that it is less respectable than just about anything you need a degree for.

So what if he committed crimes? Who in football these days hasn't committed felonies? (seriously, the whole sport is made up of corrupt bad-guys) He plead guilty to state AND federal charges, and served his time. He shouldn't have to pay for it MORE simply because he is well-known.

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So, we should like everyone who comes out of prison because they "served their time"? Great thinking. Or, just the extraordinary football players. I really don't know why its so wrong to not support the guy.

I think their are some crimes that are just unforgivable. What he did is one of them. He did give a lot of national attention to dog fighting. Whether it was good or bad we will see. I bet we see more of it happening. It's only two years, and obviously not a serious crime. As long as we serve our time, we can do it, and nobody will really care.

To me - pathetic.

I gotta say, the guy paid his dues. He lost everything from this, houses, fans, his reputation the list goes on. Everybody has painted a target on this guys back since then and rightfully so. But he did his time and is trying to make things better, I think boycotting him being on a freaking video game is a little petty. If it was for times person of the year or a nobel prize i could see it, but its just a video game. Everybody deserves a second chance and I think its time we start to give him one.

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Originally Posted by PassionsPythons

Priorities people..

Our world is falling apart... Seriously. And we are concerned about who's on the cover of Madden '12. Awesome.

We wonder whats wrong with the world..............

If we are gonna complain about something... lets at least complain about something worth complaining about.... like the ridiculous gas prices, or grocery prices, or the bill that could end our hobby.. c'mon. Power with numbers.... to bad we wanna use our numbers to complain about video games.

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What's so wrong with people debating whether or not Mike Vick should be on the cover of a video game? Last I checked, this is a discussion forum where people discuss and debate a multitude of issues. I'm sure if I looked hard enough I could find many threads in the "Off-Topic Cafe" that have to do with gas prices, grocery prices or any other important social issue facing us today. And I darn well know there are MANY threads about the bills that are threatening our hobby. The bottom line is that this issue is MUCH more than a debate on whether he should be on the cover of a video game. This topic brings to light many important social issues such as the public acceptance/unacceptance of dog fighting, the effectiveness of our criminal justice system, and the collective value system of a small slice of the general public.

As far as the priorities of the members of BP.net.....I hardly think that anyone who voiced their opinion on this issue woke up this morning with whether or not Mike Vick belongs on the cover of Madden weighing heavily on their conscience. What makes freedom great is the fact that every single one of us can log onto this forum and voice our opinion, no matter what the subject is and no matter how asinine the issue is. If you don't care about the content of a particular thread, click the little X in the top right corner of the screen and move on with your life.

That being said....I love dogs as much as any other person. I find it despicable that any human being can torture and kill ANY animal in the way that he did. I do not like him as a person, but he is an excellent football player. Bottom line is that I really don't care if he is on the cover of Madden or not. I am a Philadelphia Eagles fan, but I find it very difficult to root for them with him as the QB as I find it difficult to see beyond his past transgressions.

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Originally Posted by stratus_020202

I really don't know why its so wrong to not support the guy.

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There's a difference between passively not supporting and actively working against.

Taking time out of your day to actively work against someone's career because of an offense that has already gone through the extent of the justice system is what I am asking people to avoid.

As to the original point of this thread, if you want to vote for the other dude because you're a fan, do it. If you want to vote for vick because you like how he played last year, do it. If you don't give two craps about football, but vote for the other dude because of some desire to exact personal vengeance on a criminal.. well that's just not fine.

Personal vengeance, vigilantism, and the like are not ok, especially if your only motivation is the fact that this particular individual is well-known and in the public eye. I don't see any of these die-hard anti-Vick persons researching records of convicted animal abusers and actively working against the careers of animal rights abusers who aren't celebrities.

I don't follow the careers of athletes. Has vick been in any other trouble?

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Originally Posted by wilomn

I don't follow the careers of athletes. Has vick been in any other trouble?

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Minor drug charges, theft here and there, steroid charges.....on and on. But, i believe this is his first felony. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael...minal_troubles

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Originally Posted by SnakesNStangss22

i know its not the same, but i got a aggravated assault charge on me when i was 18, ... long story short some guy kept flirting/touching my fiancée... after a while i took my bowling ball and hit the guy, im saying i did my time, and served my punishment, its over with and done... people should not keep dwelling on the past.

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Originally Posted by jcotharn

Everybody deserves a second chance and I think its time we start to give him one.

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Two answer both comments at once: When your own father has been 3 times and spent most of my 35 years there, HOW MANY CHANCES SHOULD SOMEONE GET? first time was murder, then federal drug charges/parole violation, now both with parole vilation. It breaks my heart to see my grandmother grieve over his "mistakes" and IT WILL NOT HAPPEN AGAIN. Take it for what you want but when he gets paroled again I'm the one picking him up.

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

Personal vengeance, vigilantism, and the like are not ok, especially if your only motivation is the fact that this particular individual is well-known and in the public eye. I don't see any of these die-hard anti-Vick persons researching records of convicted animal abusers and actively working against the careers of animal rights abusers who aren't celebrities.

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I dont go out of my way to look BUT if its in my sight it doesnt happen for long.;)

So, Should vick have to pay for the rest of his life? No, he should be treated like he treated his dogs. They have more heart and passion to live life, he wouldnt make it.
http://a.abcnews.com/images/US/ht_georgia_080904_mn.jpg
Her story

She lost her teeth because she killed every Grand Champ male they tried to breed her with! She has to spend the rest of her life with no teeth, I think he should too.

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Originally Posted by frenchy

Wow really the guy served his time did whatever the courts wanted him to tell me you have never made a mistake in your life are people out to get you still... Now im not saying what he did was right in anyway shape or form nor do I condone what he did. Further more the cover of madden is based on you proformance not necessarily personal issues.. Madden 10 had a rapist on it but nobody cares about keeping him off the cover and in my book rape or any sex crime is worse than dog fighting so give it a rest let EA games put whomever they want on thier cover as long as the game is good

O and im a viking fan so no loyalties to the guy

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I agree with you as well. Whats done is done, he appologized and isn't doing it anymore. Get over it. He is a badass athlete, put him on the cover.

I agree with pit. 100%.

I met my uncle for the first time when I was 27. Why? Because he was in prison for 25 yrs for vehicular manslaughter. He killed a family because he was driving under the influence. Do you want to know how long he was out before he started drinking again? A few months. I've watched my father go through so much emotional pain struggling with this. Will I ever forgive him? Give him a second chance? No. Hell no, from the bottom of my heart.

And, I don't care that he's a famous athlete. He could be some random person, and I would still fight against him being on the cover of anything. But, I also think he is a public figure and should behave a little more responsibly. If nothing else, do it for all the young kids who idolize you.

Wow ! Very volatile subject !!

Since I don't care about football one way or another (ducking the rotten eggs, lol) I can't really say I know enough about who to vote on what.

However, when it comes to M. Vick, I would rather see him nowhere at all.
I would like to say, this is my opinion only. I'm NOT judge or jury, and I don't proclaim to be. But I DO have the right to my OWN opinion.

What he did was simply disgusting. To me, this makes him a disgusting human being, and pretty close to being worthless. Now, before you all throw me into the fire, remember, its just my opinion.
I truly believe he is in no shape or form sorry for what he did to the dogs. I do believe he is sorry about getting caught and all the problems he got into over it.

Sorry, you do now "grow" a conscience or empathy. Especially not over being "punished" for something. He tortured and killed SEVERAL times. That means, more then once. That there pretty much proves that he felt NOTHING for these animals, at least, nothing good. Don't tell me he does now. If he hadn't got caught, he would probably still be engaging in this travesty.

On the whole point of "human vs animals" , "pets vs livestock" etc, I only have one thing to say. I do value human life over animals. Its because I am a mother, and everyone has one. I wouldn't want to look into a mothers eyes of the person I let drown over saving my dog. Again, that is just my opinion, and my view on this. I love all my animals dearly and I'm still grieving the loss of my dog from last year, he was as close to a soulmate as one could ask for. I'm grateful for the 10 years I had with him.
They truly are the most loyal, honest and faithful of animals one can ask for.

About the whole "livestock vs companion animals" thing. Sure, its not fair that cows get slaughtered , yet we cry out at dogs getting drowned. Sure, we have our rodents killed for the snakes (or let the snakes do it). But SURELY people understand that there is a difference, unfair or not. Most animals that have evolved along with the humans have played a role for us. Dogs were our companion, hunting partners, protectors and so much more. This country was built using horses one way or another, its part of our heritage. And yes, then there is the livestock, there to provide food and materials.

I'm no vegetarian. But I do have empathy. I strongly wish there would be better regulations (and enforcement) of humane treatment at slaughter plants as well as on the transport. I wouldn't mind paying more for my meat, in order for that to happen.

But sorry, no, I don't view my dog the same as the cow I may eat. I think that is basic human nature, and not necessarily "hypocrisy".

Do I think rape or child molestation and murder is worse then what Vick did to the dogs ? Um, YEAH. But how does that even matter in this particular discussion? We aren't talking about a rapist or a murderer or any other of the countless trash walking the earth. Right at this point the talk is about Vick alone, and what he did, and what people think about it and whether they want to see his mug anywhere. And just because there may still be "worse" crimes, doesn't excuse his crime.

So he did his time. Sorry, that doesn't change the fact of the pure nature of his crime. He may be legally free and excused but please do not expect people to do the same in their mind. What about child molesters that did their time ? So, they are out of jail and free, does that mean they should have a "clean slate" ? I guess there may be some that think so, but I would NEVER ever forgive them, or want them anywhere around my or other children. Period.

Again, I'm no judge or jury or court, but in my opinion there are some crimes that are so heinous, and so devoid of anything that makes us human, that these persons are IN MY OPINION worthless. Someone that can actually torture and kill such innocent beings as pets or children, that just takes a whole nother level of evilness.

Yes , there are many wrongs in this world, and yes, he did his time. But to me, he is overpaid trash. For all the reasons listed.

I know I may get flamed and my words and meanings dissected and chewed up. But remember, I do not expect anyone to share my opinion, I do not push my opinion on anyone, I do not say its "gospel". All I ask that you respect my right to have one, as I respect others rights to have their own, even if it differs from mine.

To anyone that actually read this long rant of mine, thank you , I know it was long winded and please remember that english is my second language, so excuse any spelling and grammar errors.

I have a question for everyone bashing saying don't put him on the cover or he didn't get rightful punishment. Just because this happened in the past, should he not be able to utilize the talent he has on the football field? Just because he made one mistake, does he not deserve to be the best quarterback he can? If you say yes, then I hope when you royally screw something up in life, that nobody will forgive you and you are no longer able to utilize your ability in whatever it is you do. I understand that there are some things that stick with you the rest of your life, but if he is diligently trying to better himself and trying to leave the past behind, why condemn the man for this?

I understand that some people probably have such strong opinions because they are absolute animal lovers, but instead of dwelling on whats done, why don't you praise the fact that it isn't happening any more?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stratus_020202

But, I also think he is a public figure and should behave a little more responsibly. If nothing else, do it for all the young kids who idolize you.

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Isn't that why he publicly admitted he was wrong and sorry for what he had done? To send a message to all these "young kids" to tell them to learn from his mistakes? Just saying...


My homeboy upstairs forgave all of us for the wrong doing we do everyday, why can't we return the favor and forgive Vick?

Personally I don't understand why he is even still in Pro-football. No felon should be. Role models should not be pimps, child molesters, rapists, drug users/dealers, killers, etc, etc and the list goes on. For the amount of money that they make, they should be banned for any of the afore mentioned. Any crime they commit should get them the axe.

Our justice system as well as our government is broken and corrupt.

I would save my dog over a stranger any day.


I also didn't think Tyson should have been allowed back into Boxing.

I also believe in an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.

Feed Vic to the dogs. Now that would be something.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PweEzy

Isn't that why he publicly admitted he was wrong and sorry for what he had done? To send a message to all these "young kids" to tell them to learn from his mistakes? Just saying...

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Um no. Being a resposible adult, father, role model, is not only getting yourself out of the hole you've dug. It's also standing there with a club, looking down at a bleeding dog after you've hit it the first time, and thinking "you know, this is wrong. Maybe I should quit before I get caught."

One mistake? ONE. Perhaps you haven't read about all the charges filed against him, and all the terrible things he's done. And, yes, if I become a mass murderer and run around brutally killing animals, I hope people hate me forever. I want a constant reminder for the rest of my life that what I did is unforgivable.

The man is already trying to get another dog. Are you kidding me? Because his children are sad they can't ever own a dog. He cancelled on Oprah for fear of meeting one of the dogs he terrorized. I don't think he can face what he did. He just turns his back and says i'm sorry. Oops. Running to the arms of people who forgave him. It's ok, cover his eyes, let him think the past is past. Sooner or later his evil side will show up again.

Ok, if they allow that man to own a dog again, I will honestly loose all remaining faith in the system.

imho he is NOT sorry he did what he did, he is just sorry he got caught and all that resulted from that.

Please tell me they won't let him own dogs, at the very least.

Some of ya'll support HSUS and PETA. They kill or support the killing of more animals than Vick has ever killed. The man did his time let's get off his back.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chessfighter

Some of ya'll support HSUS and PETA. They kill or support the killing of more animals than Vick has ever killed. The man did his time let's get off his back.

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2 wrongs don't make a right, sorry.

And many of us do know PETA and HSUS for what they are. Also, I respect that in your opinion people should forgive Vick

But understand that people have different opinions and I will not forgive his crime anymore then I will forgive a child molester, just because he has "done his time"

Some thing are unforgivable IN MY OPINION, because some things stem from an evil mind. Not just from making mistakes and bad decisions.

I can see forgiving theft, lying, cheating etc. But some things don't change by sitting in jail for a couple of month.

Some people are just rotten.

I respect your opinion, I just don't share it.

[QUOTE=TessadasExotics;1548594]Personally I don't understand why he is even still in Pro-football. No felon should be. Role models should not be pimps, child molesters, rapists, drug users/dealers, killers, etc, etc and the list goes on. For the amount of money that they make, they should be banned for any of the afore mentioned. Any crime they commit should get them the axe.QUOTE]

Doesnt it just make you proud to be good old americans? :gj:

I just spent the last half hour reading through all 5 pages of this thread...
most of you covered what I would have said.
I want to say thanks for the thread opener who started the great debate! I love a good old debate thread!
Iam not a football fan by any means, so i think im pretty unbiast there. But Iam very biast when it comes to whether or not animals should be compaired to humans. And humans are infact a plague on this world and we are destroyers of every natural resource we have. On a smaller note...
I agree that I will never support vick or talk good of him, he ruined it for me and I hope a lot of people, I dont think people should so easily forgive and forget. Now this doesnt mean this is the only celebrity I dislike as a human being. The list is huge of useless oxygen sucking people in this country. Some worse than others, but then again this is a thread on VICK and his wrong doings, not OJ, not Tyson, blah blah blah...that being said....
I just want to say kudos for PitOnTheProwl, and stratus_020202 I enjoyed your posts and agree!:gj:

And by the way, I would save THE DOG over a human anyday.
Which is probably why I would rather buy a loaf of bread and feed the pigeons than feed a homeless person.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

Personally I don't understand why he is even still in Pro-football. No felon should be. Role models should not be pimps, child molesters, rapists, drug users/dealers, killers, etc, etc and the list goes on. For the amount of money that they make, they should be banned for any of the afore mentioned. Any crime they commit should get them the axe.

Our justice system as well as our government is broken and corrupt.

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Doesnt it just make you proud to be good old americans? :gj:

I just spent the last half hour reading through all 5 pages of this thread...
most of you covered what I would have said.
I want to say thanks for the thread opener who started the great debate! I love a good old debate thread!
Iam not a football fan by any means, so i think im pretty unbiast there. But Iam very biast when it comes to whether or not animals should be compaired to humans. And humans are infact a plague on this world and we are destroyers of every natural resource we have. On a smaller note...
I agree that I will never support vick or talk good of him, he ruined it for me and I hope a lot of people, I dont think people should so easily forgive and forget. Now this doesnt mean this is the only celebrity I dislike as a human being. The list is huge of useless oxygen sucking people in this country. Some worse than others, but then again this is a thread on VICK and his wrong doings, not OJ, not Tyson, blah blah blah...that being said....
I just want to say kudos for PitOnTheProwl, and stratus_020202 I enjoyed your posts and agree!:gj:

And by the way, I would save THE DOG over a human any day.
Which is probably why I would rather buy a loaf of bread and feed the pigeons than feed a homeless person.