Argon Chamber?

I was doing my last bit of research tonight before buying a CO2 tank and building my euthanasia chamber tomorrow when I stumbled upon a disturbing article. You can read it for yourself here
http://www.upc-online.org/nr/33005co2.htm
but the cliff notes are that CO2 suffocation is very painful and considered inhumane. The upshot is that suffocation via nitrogen or argon is NOT painful and found to be much more humane mode of euthanasia. Since nitrogen is lighter than O2 it would be pretty hard to build an efficient chamber but argon gas is HEAVIER than O2 just like CO2 so would work in the same way as a CO2 Chamber. .8 Ar .2 CO2 is readily available as a welding mix. I am going to try this.............any thoughts?

I don't really know if there is a way to test how much it sucks for the animals, also the article is about chickens and hens I don't know if rat's have a different system to where they fall asleep earlier than hens or what. But if the price is the same or just a slight difference and you are able to get Argon then I say go for it. If it makes you feel even an ounce better then it's worth it IMO.

Just use cervical dislocation. It's easier, cheaper, safer, and less likely to result in a painful death.

I've used both CO2 and argon to put rats down. I stopped using argon because the rats made noise while they were being gassed, which led me to believe it was less humane. When I gas them with CO2 they go quietly.

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

Just use cervical dislocation. It's easier, cheaper, safer, and less likely to result in a painful death.

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I am euthanizing rat pups and would most likely pull their whole tail off (yuck). If it were a more advanced state rat I would say for sure.

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Originally Posted by m00kfu

I've used both CO2 and argon to put rats down. I stopped using argon because the rats made noise while they were being gassed, which led me to believe it was less humane. When I gas them with CO2 they go quietly.

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You have my attention, can you elaborate a bit more on your procedures. I want to do the right thing as best as I can.

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Originally Posted by Ladybugzcrunch

You have my attention, can you elaborate a bit more on your procedures. I want to do the right thing as best as I can.

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I've got a large welding tank of CO2 that I use along with a regulator that lets me control the gas flow. I've pretty much got it set as low as it will go, and I let it run for 10 minutes or so. They'll gradually take slower and longer breaths until they stop.

With the argon it looked more like hyperventilating, they would pick up speed with how fast they were gasping for breath and they would squeak with every breath until they stopped. Whether that squeak was voluntary or not I don't know.

As far as which is a better way to go for the rat I really don't know, but the CO2 sure looked like a nicer way to go than the argon.

If CO2 is done properly, the ratties will first fall asleep. Then, once they are passed out, the level of CO2 can be raised to humanely euthanize them. I would not feel comfortable at all saying that if you go full blast with the CO2 from the get go that it will be completely humane. If done correctly though, they literally just pass away in their sleep.

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Originally Posted by m00kfu

I've got a large welding tank of CO2 that I use along with a regulator that lets me control the gas flow. I've pretty much got it set as low as it will go, and I let it run for 10 minutes or so. They'll gradually take slower and longer breaths until they stop.

With the argon it looked more like hyperventilating, they would pick up speed with how fast they were gasping for breath and they would squeak with every breath until they stopped. Whether that squeak was voluntary or not I don't know.

As far as which is a better way to go for the rat I really don't know, but the CO2 sure looked like a nicer way to go than the argon.

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Thank you for your input. Perhaps I should go with CO2.

This question might have been asked and answered but I would say CO2, absolutely. This article details a scientific test that pretty much states what m00kfu said, in that the rats appear to suffer [B]more[B] when using argon gas than with CO2. The article itself is fairly dry and is written in scientific terms but it has some good information if you wanted to check it out.

Here's the link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20819391

Good luck, whatever you decide. Hope that helps.

I don't know if this helps the argument any, but I would definitely go with the CO2. I've had CO2 poisoning twice, the first time was when I was much younger (therefore, much smaller), but I remember it very clearly. It was a slow leak, making the poisoning similar to the rats- but obviously on a human scale.

It caused both my brother & I to fall asleep. There wasn't any pain, obviously I didn't die either, but it was a very strange heaviness that caused us to drift off to la-la land. But, again, absolutely no pain. Nope, the pain comes when you wake up! :rolleyes: Not fun, but I can definitely attest to the fact that there was no pain in the initial process.

I've never had argon poisioning, but if they're squeaking and hyperventilating then that just doesn't sound nice all together. If it causes a struggle, then it's pretty safe to assume it causes pain- in my opinion, anyway.

sorry for high jacking this thread < but is it safe to feed a recently gassed rat to a snake ?

Becky and I are paramedics and one of the most common calls we receive is CO poisoning. We are taught how to treat it and how to recognize it very early in our training and the only symptom is sleepiness. As a matter of fact if the sleepiness is associated with chest pain or headache that's a good indicator that it's not CO.

The most common scenario we see is that the individual with the CO leak simply got sleepy and went to bed. That's why CO poisonings are so commonly fatal, because the individual feels no pain or shortness of breath just tired so they lay down to rest and never wake up. They don't call for help because they don't know anything is wrong.

What could be a more perfect form of euthanasia? JMO. :)

ScottNBecky and starstruckk - Thanks so much to both of you for sharing your first hand experience with CO2! I was always pretty confident in it but now I feel 100% sure that this is the right way to euthanize. Thanks guys! :gj: