ASF food?

I am looking for information on making my own ASF food. I was going to get mazuri 6F, but that was over 50 dollars for the 50 pound bag. I looked at hog feed as well, and there are no suppliers near to where I live. What food is good for them? I've heard that alfalfa should be avoided, as it is indigestable. I was looking at getting gerbil food (protein is at 15%), and mixing in some wild bird seed. I am looking for any help whatsoever, I need all the help I can get. :P

Thanks

I've been feeding mine Ol' Roy dog food from Walmart for the past 6 months. I have no idea if that's a good idea or not, but it's cheap and the rats have been fine so far as I can tell.

Go to any feed store and buy oats, millet, and barley in 50lb bags for $10, $14, and $15-20 accordingly.

Add in some sort of holistic dog food, that's the only thing that is expensive. And you'll have an okay mix. Use mostly the oats and barley.

You can also buy sweet feed for horses for $10 for $50lbs, and mix that in aswell. Brown rice, thistle seeds, pumpkin seeds, saflower seeds, sunflower seeds, brown and green lentils are all good things to mix in as well.


You might want to look over on the ASF forum, I've posted a list of foods that ASFs can and cannot eat, and it's a good thing to look at when you're thinking about mixing a food.
There are also several sites that suggest mixes for rats and mice, and these are both fine for use with ASFs. My mice, rats, ASFs, and spiny mice all eat the same diet, and are all fat and healthy, and raise great litters.

Here's a link to the ASF forum: http://www.asfrats.info/
And here's where the food list is posted: http://www.asfrats.info/viewtopic.ph...8&p=2476#p2476

Rhasputin,
That was exactly what I was looking for, thanks!:D

Welcome! :gj:

Hey Carlisle,

If you want a cheap and good food for ASFs try lab block 5012. It's made by purina and is superior to anything I've ever tried.

I've tried: dog food, cat food, bird seed, mixing my own foods, leftovers....this stuff is way better.

Within a couple months of switching I noticed that the rats were already having bigger litters then I've ever recorded. They were taking care of all the pups in the litter. The pups were reaching size much quicker then before. All around better fOod.

Also the stuff comes in blocks so it is perfect for food hoppers! It costs me $30 a 50lb bag in Ontario.

Jeremy78,
You are lucky then! I was looking at that Purina lab block, and unfortunately it was the same price as the Mazuri I was looking at. I was designing my tubs to use hoppers as well, and that has to change. Thanks for your input, I really appreciate it. :gj: If I find that Purina block or Mazuri for a half decent price I will definitely try it out.

Hog grower feed by purina is the best food period. It is the cheapest, at under 10 bucks for 50 lbs at any local feed store, and is all you need.

Sure, you can spend way more then that on a complicated mix of ingredients, or even rodent specific feed but the end result will be ASF's equal to or less healthy then mine who eat 100% hog feed their entire lives.

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

Sure, you can spend way more then that on a complicated mix of ingredients, or even rodent specific feed but the end result will be ASF's equal to or less healthy then mine who eat 100% hog feed their entire lives.

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Not true. If you feed any animal a more varied, and species specific diet with carefully measured amounts of nutrients, they will always be more healthy than an animal fed a non varied, cheap diet.

Dog food is a good example of this.
Dogs have lived on crummy corn and soy dog food for a long time, and they seem to get on okay.
But a dog fed a holistic diet, or even a raw diet, is much healthier, has a better coat, better teeth, better lifespan etc. The cost is directly an effect of the good quality ingredients.

I can guarantee my ASFs have a better coat, and longer lifespans than yours, and i'm not saying that you aren't allowed to do your hog food thing. But in my case i need my asfs to grow large, and have nice beautiful coats and long lifespans, whereas you do not.

LOL, no offense Rhasputin but honestely, in this instance, you are full of crap. Seriously. I guarantee you that my rats are just as healthy, live just as long, get as big or bigger, and have just as many babies. How do I know this? Do some reading and find out.

To the OP, go ahead and feed the complciated stuff if you'd like. We all do it in the beginning as Rasputin suggests. In a couple years when you get tired of the hassle, switch over to what I am suggesting. When you see the same exact results you will laugh at yourself and understand what I am talking about. Even better yet, keep the detailed spreadsheets of all data just as I did in case you start to second guess yourself.

Rasputin is the kind of person that would would argue with a 114 year old person that they have been eating wrong their entire lives...


LOL

Mike, I know you have personal issues with me, and disagree on EVERYTHING I have to say about ASFs. . . But being rude really doesn't help your cause.

ASFs can live on your diet, and it's fine for feeders.
But for my breeding purposes, the diet I am feeding is necessary, culling litters early on is necessary, and taming them is necessary.

For you, none of that matters, and you like to shove it in my face an awful lot. For you, it seems to be your way or the high way.

Your diet works, yes.

The diet i suggested is much more nutritionally balanced.

The OP said they were looking for the info I gave them. Can't you just not argue with me for once, and leave the post alone? You say I'm the kind of person that would argue with anyone, yet you constantly follow me around and bully my posts. Honestly, if it keeps up, i'm going to make a report. :/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

Hog grower feed by purina is the best food period. It is the cheapest, at under 10 bucks for 50 lbs at any local feed store, and is all you need.

Sure, you can spend way more then that on a complicated mix of ingredients, or even rodent specific feed but the end result will be ASF's equal to or less healthy then mine who eat 100% hog feed their entire lives.

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How does this look? Or should I find one with more protein?

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Originally Posted by Rhasputin

Honestly, if it keeps up, i'm going to make a report. :/

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Oh no!!! you are going to report me?! To who? The forum police? Sorry for disagreeing with you on a PUBLIC FORUM!!! LOL.

I will try to show you the light one more time in plain English...

1.) I have already fed the foods that you are suggesting.
2.) I have already tried many other food plans also.
3.) Because of my customer base, and my own feeder / breeder needs I have been afforded the opportunity to experiment in HUGE VOLUME.
4.) I am a data / spreadsheet junkie. Bottom line is I like numbers, and really enjoy tracking things in great detail. I have kept records since DAY 1.
5.) While many of the foods I have tried have under performed, I was amazed to see that plain old purina hog grower worked as well as any other food plan or better. This is true with size, growth rate, litter size, lifespan, and overall health and appearance.
6.) People are hurting for money. Many are selling off their snake collections because they no longer can afford to feed their snakes. It isn't the time for "fluff". Sure, the diet you are suggesting is excellent for the rats. I too had great success with it. No better then with the hog feed tho. Quit making your claims that your diet is more nutitionally balanced. That is just not true, and the proof is in the pudding.
7.) refer back to #6. :)

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Originally Posted by spitzu

I've been feeding mine Ol' Roy dog food from Walmart for the past 6 months. I have no idea if that's a good idea or not, but it's cheap and the rats have been fine so far as I can tell.

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i once used ol' roy but quit when they added dyes to the formula.red food dye is thought to accumulate in a reptile's liver and cause problems in the long run,i can't prove this but it easy to find non dyed dog food and i'd rather error to the safe side.

for mice and ASFR's i use country squire dog food from menards HC with excellent results,21% protein and no dyes.have fun!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rhasputin

Not true. If you feed any animal a more varied, and species specific diet with carefully measured amounts of nutrients, they will always be more healthy than an animal fed a non varied, cheap diet.

Dog food is a good example of this.
Dogs have lived on crummy corn and soy dog food for a long time, and they seem to get on okay.
But a dog fed a holistic diet, or even a raw diet, is much healthier, has a better coat, better teeth, better lifespan etc. The cost is directly an effect of the good quality ingredients.

I can guarantee my ASFs have a better coat, and longer lifespans than yours, and i'm not saying that you aren't allowed to do your hog food thing. But in my case i need my asfs to grow large, and have nice beautiful coats and long lifespans, whereas you do not.

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wow only 20 years old and already has the world by the A$$,simply amazing.is it me or do others notice that these self proclaimed internet "wizards" usually won't show a picture or use there real name on a avatar?

To the moderators, for harassment. It's getting ridiculous.

Again, your diet works for producing a bunch of rats on a diet that sustains them anyways and keeps them alive long enough for you to sell them off as feeders.

My diet produces consistently larger animals with nicer coats, which is what i need.

The proof that my diet is more balanced than yours is not 'in the pudding' it's in the numbers. Look up the dietary needs and %s needed for healthy ASFs and you'll find your diet lacking. That doesn't mean your rats are dying or skinny or mangey or anything. I'm not insulting your methods. But the truth is that you can't just buy any over-all perfect food for rodents, and even a mix is typically off, but can be much closer to their true dietary needs.


For me, producing animals for show and pets, an extremely good diet is necessary.

Hi,

I would suggest you visit each others respective profile pages;

Mike Cavanaugh

Rhasputin

Look to the panels on the left hand side and select "Add to Ignore List"

Alternatively, take these discussions to the PM system when they get to a personal level.

Either that or grow a thicker skin or some form of impulse control.

We cannot make anyone behave in a "nicer" manner and would only intervene if it got to the stage it crossed the lines in regards to this rule;

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Originally Posted by Site F.A.Q

3. No Hate Speak. This includes, but is not limited to: cursing; threats of violence; racial, gender, religious, or sexual slurs; personal attacks; and speech intended to cause or further a "flame war" or personal vendetta. This includes vindictive use of the Reputation System and Private Messages. Ultimately, it will be up to the staff (the mods and ultimately the admins) to determine if any given post or thread has crossed these lines.

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It would be in the best intrests of everyone if it never got to that point surely.


dr del

I find the more variety you offer the more the pick their favourite bits and the more they leave. Lab blocks and I wish I could source some in the UK


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Mike10205

I find the more variety you offer the more the pick their favourite bits and the more they leave. Lab blocks and I wish I could source some in the UK


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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EXCELLENT POINT......some years ago i made a mixture for mice and found they pick out what they like and only eat one or two items,i even noticed certain mice would constantly pick out there favorite ingredient.grinding the ingredients and forming pieces or blocks is the best way to ensure a balanced diet.

so making your own mix is : more expensive,time consuming,wasteful and in the end may not be better for the rodents.have fun!

Psssst!! :whisper:

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Originally Posted by Mike10205

............ I wish I could source some in the UK

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How about this - it seemed to be recommended on some uk forums?

You'd have to research the ingredients of course as it only states 17% protein.

Or this at 18%?

Basically look at all the commercial diets you can and compare it to the profile of the food you want to use.

The hardest part might be finding a farm supply outlet near where you live. Find the one thats easiest to get to then look at the makeup of their feed.



dr del

:weirdface Is there some big prize for the winner if the OP chooses one feeding method over another? :weirdface

:rolleyes:

It's beyond me why all the bickering is necessary. Present your preferences and your reasons for them....and anyone reading them will make their decisions based on THAT. No one is going to decide on which feeding method is "best" based on who hits hardest with the bat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rhasputin

The proof that my diet is more balanced than yours is not 'in the pudding' it's in the numbers. Look up the dietary needs and %s needed for healthy ASFs and you'll find your diet lacking. That doesn't mean your rats are dying or skinny or mangey or anything. I'm not insulting your methods. But the truth is that you can't just buy any over-all perfect food for rodents, and even a mix is typically off, but can be much closer to their true dietary needs.

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Look up the dietary needs? Who is this mistery man that has already defined their dietary needs? What exactly were his findings?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rhasputin

For me, producing animals for show and pets, an extremely good diet is necessary.

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Ah, so your pets require the highest qualitiy food ingredients because you strive for the biggest, healthiest rats.... But that isn't what I strive for because all my rats are used for is food for my very expensive snake collection... wait, I am confused!

You just have to keep pushing it. :|

With an assist no less. :rolleyes:


dr del

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Originally Posted by Rhasputin

You just have to keep pushing it. :|

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pushing what.....his opinion,findings and experience. (as you do) why is it that if someone disagrees with you you find it sooooo offensive ? mod make them stop!

perhaps it time to learn how to live,learn,laugh,love and accept like on life's terms instead of demanding your own terms.in short GROW UP.

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

Hog grower feed by purina is the best food period. It is the cheapest, at under 10 bucks for 50 lbs at any local feed store, and is all you need.

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FYI, I found some of this a few days ago and my ASFs *love* it. I've used about 1/2 of a 50lb bag in less than a week, which is about twice as much Ol' Roy dog food that they'd eat in the same time period.

I'm very anxious to see if this improves the growth and production rate of my ASFs. Especially considering that I just spent $300 on rats last night!

:taz::taz::taz:




edit: I can't find any for sale @ $10. This stuff was $18 a bag, but it will be worth quite a bit more than that to me if I get results.

Isnt Mike Cavanaugh the bp.net asf guru?

No sarcasm there lol

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Originally Posted by BuckeyeBalls

Isnt Mike Cavanaugh the bp.net asf guru?

No sarcasm there lol

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Well he can't tell the difference between black, agouti, and cinnamon phenotypes, so I wouldn't say guru.

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Originally Posted by Rhasputin

Well he can't tell the difference between black, agouti, and cinnamon phenotypes, so I wouldn't say guru.

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Proof?

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Originally Posted by BuckeyeBalls

Proof?

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http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ASF-pup-colour

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Originally Posted by Rhasputin

Well he can't tell the difference between black, agouti, and cinnamon phenotypes, so I wouldn't say guru.

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He breeds Asf's to feed his snakes and other collections this wouldn't be important to Mike or me as I too breed them for feeder purposes.;)

On the original topic of which food is best I agree with Judy members reading this thread will decide for themselves after reading each of your detailed experiences..

By the way I feed Mazuri 6f and its great for me I feel no need to come on here and argue about which food is best. Do what works for you plain and simple.:gj:

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Originally Posted by BuckeyeBalls

Isnt Mike Cavanaugh the bp.net asf guru?

No sarcasm there lol

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:) Nope, No guru here... I am just someone who likes to share what I have learned over the years for others benefit... Most appreciate it. :gj:

I guess the only real guru with ASF's is that mistery man that has already identified the nutritional needs of these animals. Maybe some day he will come out of hiding and his findings will be posted so us mere mortals can learn a thing or two. Until that happens I guess we will just be forced to go with whatever we find that works.

Yes Raspfootin, you have a fancy name for what I call black. Congradulations. I will remember to look up to you in the future.

LOL

Oh good grief.

Since apparently neither one of you has the self control or maturity to cease the personal digs and just let it go I'm calling time on this thread.

If you must keep meeping at each other please have the decency to do it in Private messages so the rest of us don't have to put up with it.


dr del