Do you believe in Ghosts?

I was watching this show the other night (Ghost Hunters). They do expeditions at supposed haunted places. They take video, do voice recordings, etc...
I just cant believe in it. I think people see and hear what they want to.
Same goes for movies like Paranormal Activity. I dont believe in Demons or people who's bodies become overtaken by demons. I think they are either A.) mentally unstable or B.) doing it for attention.

Until I actually physically witness a full floating vapour apparition or some chicks head completely spin around..... sorry I ain't buyin it:no:

I have been to supposed haunted assylums, houses, graveyards, and restaraunts and I saw nor felt nothing. Pictures were taken, orbs were captured on film....lol Cold spots were recorded, and noises were heard, but at no time did I physically see or feel anything.

So I'd like to get anyones take on it if they believe or do not believe and why:gj:

With regards to such inquiries, my answer is almost always:

"lol no."

Do I believe that the spirits of dead people walk the earth messing with living people.. NO!!..Do I believe that there are entity's that can remain unseen if they desire and have the ability to manipulate the physical surroundings around them ..Yes

No, but I also don't believe in anything supernatural.

Ghost shows are just...awkward to me. I just see people getting creeped out, feeding off of one another's emotions, and tweaking out over it. :8:

I'll admit I like the ghost shows :oops: And I do believe in "ghosts".

I'm sure I'll get raked over the fires if I share why I believe so I'll just keep my stories to myself. But I definitely believe there is something other than us and have people that refuse come over to my house or let my dog come to their house :P

When I was around 10-11 years old, my sister and husband moved into a house. This house was haunted. There were too many things going on. I won't go into particulars, but they were barely making ends meet and they left after 2 months. They borrowed the money to break the lease. After they had moved out, my sister was sitting on the porch waiting for the electric company to turn off the pwoer. She wouldn't go into the house. A neighbor came over and started talking. She backed up everything my family had experienced while in the house. Seems like a man, his wife and mother in law lived in the house. The man killed the 2 women and then hung himself. Even the garage was haunted. I can remember hearing a man's voice many times while I played in the garage. I didn't know any difference.

I don't try to prove my belief, I feel it's up to the individual to determine their own beliefs. All I can say is that my family has experienced a haunted house.

Believe it or not!
Jim Smith

Green, orange, yellow, butterscotch and citrus. Yes

Paranormals....No :)

I believe there is something after life, wether it be heaven, hell, or just screwing with other people when you die (I think that would be pretty fun, actually.) But I have never seen a transparent dead person walking around. I swear on my life I've heard voices, completley audible voices though. Men, women, children (I know I'm a friggin phsyco.) But on one occasion I swear I saw a little girl in a white dress, maybe 4-5 years old, walk across my computor room one night.

So yes, I guess I do.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Do I believe that the spirits of dead people walk the earth messing with living people.. NO!!..Do I believe that there are entity's that can remain unseen if they desire and have the ability to manipulate the physical surroundings around them ..Yes

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Yeah same here I don't believe in ghosts but I do believe in Ninja's...thats what you ment right?

I do believe in ghosts, but...My view on ghosts is that you're really safest not believing in them. :O Some of the things I've seen...

My boyfriend very much believes in them, he's had friends go into some very serious stuff including one friend who ended up basically 'cleaning up' ghost problems--by the way, it's nothing like the bogus on tv, lol! He actually works for the churches in our town, though of course most wouldn't admit to that if you asked :rolleyes:

But one of the things we've learned is not to go too far into the learning. The more you open yourself up to it, the more you notice and the more power you give them over you. That's why it always seems the people who believe in ghosts have all the freaky stuff happen to them.

I never really used to believe in them, but the more I learned the more stuff happened. A girl died in Nathan's room a few years before his family moved in, and she has been my biggest experience ghost-wise. She is prone to tantrums and tries to frighten us, :P lights on and off, doors unlocking, suddenly music starts playing on the computer, basic ghost stuff. But we don't let her have her way, and being frightened only acknowledges her and gives her more power. But let me tell you.. She does not like snakes! She used to be very aggressive with us, and we had to move Maru out of the room before she would stop bothering us. She seems to have gotten used to them with time though, as we had to move them back into his room during a power outage. She only threw a fit for one night before going back to sleep! She likes the geckos though. We hear tapping on the glass at night on their cages, have found blankets pulled off their enclosures(if we were up late and had left the light on, put a blanket over their enclosures so they could have darkness) and always feel her presence on the gecko area of the room. Every time we get a new animal, the room is very 'active'.. Not necessarily scary things, but you can feel her there, just like the feeling if just anyone else is in the room. She's more curious. I think she's beginning to move on, at last though. She's gotten much more peaceful lately and we haven't had any extreme activity from her in a very long time. No more negative feelings in the room, it's a very positive atmosphere. I think she's finally ready to be at peace, so I'm very happy for that!

Ghosts unfortunately tend to be very unhappy. Either they are lost or unable to let go. That's why most of what happens is spooky! But if you are oblivious to them, they have no power over you. It's believing in them and fearing them that gives them enough connection to the physical world to do the scary stuff. But if you do believe and you get a real poltergeist.. GET OUT. Pray, feel strong in your own spirit, and figure out what is wrong. It is dangerous to have a spirit that powerful and active to actually affect physical things. Also, unfortunately, demons and other dangerous spirits will disguise themselves as ghosts to make your life a living hell!


So please, take what I say as bogus, I will be very happy for you! :D

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Do I believe that the spirits of dead people walk the earth messing with living people.. NO!!..Do I believe that there are entity's that can remain unseen if they desire and have the ability to manipulate the physical surroundings around them ..Yes

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Ide have to say that this is also what I belive. I felt a present one time when I was driving through the NAS Pennsacola Military cemetary. Someone? was in the back seat. Spocked me enought that I went around it for a long time.

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Originally Posted by SlitherinSisters

I'll admit I like the ghost shows :oops: And I do believe in "ghosts".

I'm sure I'll get raked over the fires if I share why I believe so I'll just keep my stories to myself. But I definitely believe there is something other than us and have people that refuse come over to my house or let my dog come to their house :P

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I live in an 18th century blacksmith's log cabin which was smack dab in the heart of the French & Indian Wars *and* innumerable documented Indian raids in which, in this area, there were no survivors.

It's also part of the old wagon train village/repair complex on The Old National Pike.

Two gunshot suicides also happened with a hundred yards of my house, both of which were members of the family that owned this house prior to my acquisition.

I've seen/heard things I can't rationally explain.
[many things, in fact but you sort of "get used to it" after a couple decades]....:O

Nice Dobe, BTW....here's my boy:

http://darkridenet.fatcow.com/ibizan...F0228-copy.jpg

[I believe he's seen one of the 'suicides' too....he 'alerts' to the dark spot across the stream from my house late at night and there's never anything "visible" there....just a blacker shadow in the blackness of the deep woods]

"And therefore as a stranger give it welcome.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

YMMV.

:)

If a ghost is defined as the spirit of a dead person trapped in or haunting a particular location, then no I do not believe that. It goes against my faith.

I beleive that in these times the human soul goes straight to the final judgment (be it heaven or hell) immediately upon death. I do beleive in demons and angels who can influence and interact with the living and impersonate the dead.

I understand that the spirits of Elijah and Moses were summoned to Jesus' transfiguration but that is not the same thing as a ghost in the traditional sense.

No

Ghosts are not real.
Ghosts shows stage scary things to make shows more interesting.

While I'm not a believer in the supernatural, I do allow myself to get captured in a good story. In for more ghost stories! :popcorn:

Of course not...Don't believe in the Tooth Fairy or Santa Clause either. People aren't very bright and the dark plays tricks on their already feeble minds. The End. :D

When I was younger I did. But a young mind is a creative mind. Years later I started to study how minds work. A persons subconscious can do some wild things, even make people see stuff that isnt there, distort noises and so on.

Everything that comes on TV is for entertainment, news is entertainment, reality tv is for entertainment etc... Everything is setup to bring in more audience, ghost shows are all setup.

In short:
Ghosts are not real. Like said before, I dont believe in the tooth fairy, easter bunny, or santa clause and defiantly do not believe in ghosts or imaginary friends.

Yep. EVERYTHING on TV is for ratings. And Horror is my absolute favorite genre since I was a child. It's for fun and entertainment ONLY. If you take it beyond that, you got yourself some problems. :)

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Originally Posted by MasonC2K

I do beleive in demons and angels who can influence and interact with the living and impersonate the dead.

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I think of that every time I watch the ghost hunter shows and think "Are you people crazy?!?"

They couldn't pay me enough money to go messing with that stuff....:D

I don't believe in much, but i have seen some weird things in my time. When i was a kid, my mother's best friend was dying of cancer. We lived in this house in Montreal for about 4 years and there was some kind of bush in the front of the house that was supposed to flower, but never did. My mother's friend told her that when she died, that bush would flower for her. Sure enough, when she died, that bush flowered with these pink flowers that littered the lawn and did so every year after that...we only lived there 6 years, so i only saw it happen a couple of more times. There may be an explanation for that, but it was interesting.
More recently, i've lived in my house for 10 years now. My ex-wife used to ask me why i'd unlock the door to the second floor balony...i never touch that door, but she would lock it all the time and it would somehow unlock when she'd check on it...it was only the two of us in the house.
The ex-wife bought a piano for 100 dollars that was found in an old barn. My dog would not go near it. If he was by the door, i would call him and he would not be able to go past the piano, even for a treat (and he'd kill for a treat) I had to go sit on the floor and hold him and slide over past the piano...then he was fine....happened for about a month. Yesterday, the new girlfriend was over with her dog...her dog was barking at the piano like a psycho...she was very confused as it is not like her...it's been 3 to 4 years since the incident with my own dog.
Lastly, there are times when i turn off my tv and surround sound, walk halfway up the stairs and the tv turns on again and i have to go back downstairs and turn it off again....three days ago, i was watching a movie with the girlfriend and the sound went off...the surround sound shut off and had to be turned back on...that happens a few times a year and we were both sitting still on the couch watching a movie.
I'm sure there is a logical scientific explanation, but who knows...

My cousin designs batteries. His comment is this,

Energy cannot be made or destroyed there is a measurable electrical current in the human body it just stops on death but where did that last amount of power go?

I don't really believe in ghosts in the scary story point of view but I also am quite certain we humans don't know everything and that there are things beyond what we can currently explain. I have had some very odd things that defy a normal explanation that makes them para normal outside normal experience right?

My dad had a terrible car accident 20 odd years ago his fault, did a U turn in front of a transfer truck. it hit the drivers side door doing 110km/h The car rolled and was dragged down the road to slam into a bridge pylon. There was nothing left of the car basically just bits everywhere. The firefighters arrived tore what was left of the car apart and found dad calmly sitting there with a cracked collar bone nothing else. Every cop and fire fighter were dumbfounded, the flurry of X-rays and mri and ct scans that followed relieved a hair line fracture in the collar bone and nothing else. The back end of the car was 60 feet from the front. He should be dead. There is no normal explanation as to why he survived effectively unhurt. I am not saying something saved him but it is beyond normal, paranormal.

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Originally Posted by Monster Dodge

Until I actually physically witness a full floating vapour apparition or some chicks head completely spin around..... sorry I ain't buyin it:no:


So I'd like to get anyones take on it if they believe or do not believe and why:gj:

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trust me, when you see an apparition for the first time, you will definitly believe in ghosts

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

My cousin designs batteries. His comment is this,

Energy cannot be made or destroyed there is a measurable electrical current in the human body it just stops on death but where did that last amount of power go?l.

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It goes to complete the last task the human body makes. There's no battery in us. Electric impulses fire with a purpose, not for fun.

I use to be like everyone else and say "no haha" then one night that all changed lol. In high school I was talking a girl who was "gothic" I was a jock so she was a little hesitant to really believe I liked her. So I asked her on a date one night and I said we can go anywhere you want think she would choose the movies or maybe a party where everyone else was, that didn't happen :colbert:

When I told her anywhere she got a wild look in her eyes and said I know of this cemetary I have been wanting to visit at night. I of course not wanting to sound like I was bothered by was like "a cemetary of all places" but I agreed to take her. So later that day around 11 pm we head off and go out of town she directs me to this really small cemetary out in the middle of nowhere surrounded by corn fields.

This cememtary was unline any other I had been to there was one giant oak tree in the middle of of spanning pretty much over the whole cemetary and a few small trees on the outskirts towards the fields. Mind you being out in the middle of nowhere there was no lights, no fence for the cemetary, just one dirt road that led to the base of the tree in the middle.

Now the night was really nice clear skies and a full moon bunch of starts (in south Texas) So we could see pretty much everything upto the fields. So we turned the car off got out and started talking on the hood of my car bout nothing really just the way she thought school was from her point of view. Yada yada yada lol after an hour or so of talking we head some rustling of corn in the far back of the corner. She was sitting up I was laying on my back she let out a yell told me someone was out there. I of course not believing just laughed she jumped off the hood and got into my car I of course got up and sure as anything there appeared to be a young lady standing towards the back corner.

I yelled out "Ma'am do you need help" quickly I scanned the fields to see if there was any sign of nearby houses but I couldn't see anything. After I said that she just started to move very slowly walking towards the car and tree. Needless to say my friend started to scream even more making everything a bit more tense and the figure never seemed to break stride or slow because of the yelling. So I yelled again "is there something you need, are you lost? " nothing. I was getting a bit nervous on the inside so I got my car window reached inside turned my car lights on. The figured stopped seemed just at the edge of my lights stood there I couldn't make anything more out than just a lady figure very dark.

I got in my car turned it on told my friend I was gonna see if this lady needed anything she begged me not to and asked if we could just leave. I said well lets get a bit closer maybe we can see who she is. I was limited to how far I could go off road being in my camaro. As we got closer the figure pointed our way and that was it my friend sceamed and I about had it we backed out all the way onto the main raod. Before we drove off we could see the figure walk back into the field. That was the first and last time I have had anything like that happened to me. Needless to say I wen't back the next day nothing around for 5 miles each way. Weird lol. Now I do believe but I don't go looking for them.

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Originally Posted by bigmike

I use to be like everyone else and say "no haha" then one night that all changed lol. In high school I was talking a girl who was "gothic" I was a jock so she was a little hesitant to really believe I liked her. So I asked her on a date one night and I said we can go anywhere you want think she would choose the movies or maybe a party where everyone else was, that didn't happen :colbert:

When I told her anywhere she got a wild look in her eyes and said I know of this cemetary I have been wanting to visit at night. I of course not wanting to sound like I was bothered by was like "a cemetary of all places" but I agreed to take her. So later that day around 11 pm we head off and go out of town she directs me to this really small cemetary out in the middle of nowhere surrounded by corn fields.

This cememtary was unline any other I had been to there was one giant oak tree in the middle of of spanning pretty much over the whole cemetary and a few small trees on the outskirts towards the fields. Mind you being out in the middle of nowhere there was no lights, no fence for the cemetary, just one dirt road that led to the base of the tree in the middle.

Now the night was really nice clear skies and a full moon bunch of starts (in south Texas) So we could see pretty much everything upto the fields. So we turned the car off got out and started talking on the hood of my car bout nothing really just the way she thought school was from her point of view. Yada yada yada lol after an hour or so of talking we head some rustling of corn in the far back of the corner. She was sitting up I was laying on my back she let out a yell told me someone was out there. I of course not believing just laughed she jumped off the hood and got into my car I of course got up and sure as anything there appeared to be a young lady standing towards the back corner.

I yelled out "Ma'am do you need help" quickly I scanned the fields to see if there was any sign of nearby houses but I couldn't see anything. After I said that she just started to move very slowly walking towards the car and tree. Needless to say my friend started to scream even more making everything a bit more tense and the figure never seemed to break stride or slow because of the yelling. So I yelled again "is there something you need, are you lost? " nothing. I was getting a bit nervous on the inside so I got my car window reached inside turned my car lights on. The figured stopped seemed just at the edge of my lights stood there I couldn't make anything more out than just a lady figure very dark.

I got in my car turned it on told my friend I was gonna see if this lady needed anything she begged me not to and asked if we could just leave. I said well lets get a bit closer maybe we can see who she is. I was limited to how far I could go off road being in my camaro. As we got closer the figure pointed our way and that was it my friend sceamed and I about had it we backed out all the way onto the main raod. Before we drove off we could see the figure walk back into the field. That was the first and last time I have had anything like that happened to me. Needless to say I wen't back the next day nothing around for 5 miles each way. Weird lol. Now I do believe but I don't go looking for them.

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You have incredibly low standards of evidence. You did not see a ghost. I can say what with as much certainty as I can say there are no leprechauns. What is more likely? That you saw a ghost or that someone was messing with you? You have absolutely no idea what you actually saw because fear got the better of you and prevented you from investigating further. No where in that story did you rule out someone messing with you. Since that's far more likely than ghosts I and you should assume that until you get further evidence.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

My cousin designs batteries. His comment is this,

Energy cannot be made or destroyed there is a measurable electrical current in the human body it just stops on death but where did that last amount of power go?

I don't really believe in ghosts in the scary story point of view but I also am quite certain we humans don't know everything and that there are things beyond what we can currently explain. I have had some very odd things that defy a normal explanation that makes them para normal outside normal experience right?

My dad had a terrible car accident 20 odd years ago his fault, did a U turn in front of a transfer truck. it hit the drivers side door doing 110km/h The car rolled and was dragged down the road to slam into a bridge pylon. There was nothing left of the car basically just bits everywhere. The firefighters arrived tore what was left of the car apart and found dad calmly sitting there with a cracked collar bone nothing else. Every cop and fire fighter were dumbfounded, the flurry of X-rays and mri and ct scans that followed relieved a hair line fracture in the collar bone and nothing else. The back end of the car was 60 feet from the front. He should be dead. There is no normal explanation as to why he survived effectively unhurt. I am not saying something saved him but it is beyond normal, paranormal.

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Wow and I mean wow. Ok lets assume you have something with this battery analogy. Are there ghosts of batteries? What makes you think the energy goes anywhere or does anything? Much like a battery left in a drawer will lose its charge over time when you die the energy in your body dissipates and then you decompose unless something stops decomp.

Your dad got lucky man. It happens. By lucky I mean everything worked out just so that he lived by chance. Let me put it to you this way. Let say you win the lottery, or get struck by lightning. The chances are incredibly slim. That being said there is nothing super natural about it. People win the lottery all the time and people get struck by lighting. Just because something is unlikely does not make it supernatural.

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Originally Posted by cmack91

trust me, when you see an apparition for the first time, you will definitly believe in ghosts

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That's ridiculousness. When I see an apparition I will believe there is something that needs further investigation. How do you get from seeing something to dead people haunt the living. Its an absurd leap. There are a whole host of things you would have to rule out first. I would sooner believe it was a gaseous alien than a ghost. That's like saying when you see Pen and Teller live in Vegas you will believe in magic. Why would I jump to the supernatural when I haven't bothered to rule out the natural.

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Originally Posted by Egapal

That's ridiculousness. When I see an apparition I will believe there is something that needs further investigation. How do you get from seeing something to dead people haunt the living. Its an absurd leap. There are a whole host of things you would have to rule out first. I would sooner believe it was a gaseous alien than a ghost. That's like saying when you see Pen and Teller live in Vegas you will believe in magic. Why would I jump to the supernatural when I haven't bothered to rule out the natural.

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what else would it be, this gaseous alien? i mean yes it could be, except i cant imagine an alien made out of gas looking just like a human. besides, whats the point of you coming and ressurecting a thread that nobodys ben talking on for a few days now, just to argue with what everyone else says or believes? stating your opinion is one thing, but replying to every individuals post and outright attacking it, basically saying that we know nothing were talking about, and that were ignorant for believing in such things, is just rude.

i just want to say this. Albert Einstein said that everything has energy, even human beings. And "Energy can not be destroyed or created, it can only be transferred". That being said if people die, there can be such things as ghosts or entities that we can't see.

Yes i believe on ghosts because i see a real ghost in a village and i cant
forget that day of my life.

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Originally Posted by cmack91

what else would it be, this gaseous alien? i mean yes it could be, except i cant imagine an alien made out of gas looking just like a human. besides, whats the point of you coming and ressurecting a thread that nobodys ben talking on for a few days now, just to argue with what everyone else says or believes? stating your opinion is one thing, but replying to every individuals post and outright attacking it, basically saying that we know nothing were talking about, and that were ignorant for believing in such things, is just rude.

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I don't see how your being able to imagine it makes it more likely to be true. The point is when you see something you should pull from other things you know to be true when you speculate as to what that thing might be. You should not speculate based on movies, books, or ghost stories that have never been proven to even exist. I am sorry I don't get a chance to read the forum every day. When I get a chance I come on and comment regardless of the age of the thread. I am not arguing with what everyone says. I am making posts specifically to what I consider to be wild claims. I am sorry if you think my comments are rude. The posts that I commented on show for themselves that they don't know facts that support their beliefs. If you believe things without facts I would call you ignorant when it comes to those beliefs. I am certainly not trying to assault anyone's character. I am ignorant when it comes to simple combustion engines that cover the world we live in. I don't go around making claims about how they work and I would suspect if I did someone would point out that I am in fact ignorant on that subject.

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Originally Posted by Maddumpling

i just want to say this. Albert Einstein said that everything has energy, even human beings. And "Energy can not be destroyed or created, it can only be transferred". That being said if people die, there can be such things as ghosts or entities that we can't see.

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You are using that statement out of context to support a claim you have. The law of thermo dynamics does not postulate ghosts. When you shut of your TV is there a TV ghost? When your car stalls, is there a car ghost? Do flies have ghosts, what about fish or ants? I suspect that the reason you believe in Ghosts has very little to do with energy and a lot to do with your elevation of the mind of humans to supernatural status. Unless you can prove something about the mind that you haven't already I don't see any reason to even conjecture that the energy you have when you are alive would continue on as a ghost. The act of dying is the act of the cells dying, they stop producing energy, and the energy dissipating. The bulk of the "energy" of a human body is the flesh which could be eaten by another animal to sustain its life. The small amount of electrical charge dissipates with out the biological functions to support it. Do this experiment. Go out and buy a new battery. Leave it in a drawer in your house for 10 years. After the long wait put the battery in something and see how well it works. Where did all the energy go? Should we assume there is a battery ghost haunting your drawer?

You can have whatever belief you want, but don't discount other's experiences. After my sister's house experience, you can't tell me there's no such things as ghosts. Hearing something walk up and down the steps when no one actually is, hearing toe curling screams in the same room where you are eating, seeing people that you know aren't there, having something touch you while you're watching TV, have things move that you know you haven't touched. These things happend to my family. You can keep believing whatever you want. Your reality is what you perceive.

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Originally Posted by j_h_smith

You can have whatever belief you want, but don't discount other's experiences. After my sister's house experience, you can't tell me there's no such things as ghosts. Hearing something walk up and down the steps when no one actually is, hearing toe curling screams in the same room where you are eating, seeing people that you know aren't there, having something touch you while you're watching TV, have things move that you know you haven't touched. These things happend to my family. You can keep believing whatever you want. Your reality is what you perceive.

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I am certainly not discounting other's experiences. I am not disputing that you and your family had experiences. I am discounting the conclusions you are drawing from those experiences. Despite what you may think reality is NOT what you perceive. There is such a thing as reality irrespective of our perceptions. There are a host of explanations that are far more likely that ghosts. Again I am not passing judgment on you or your family. Beliefs can be perfectly reasonable and still be wrong. As a child for a short period of time I believed in Santa Clause. The existence of Santa was supported by the fact that presents showed up and after all, my parents wouldn't lie. As it turned out I was wrong and what seamed pretty far fetched at the time (my parents were playing Santa) turned out to be true. I am not trying to equate your beliefs to that of believing in Santa or your mentality to that of a child. Let me present some alternatives that are more likely than ghosts. Group hallucinations. Perhaps someone was playing an elaborate hoax or con on you and your family to try and get you out of the house. I am not saying that either of these things is likely only that they are far more likely than ghosts which have never been able to be proved to even exist in stark contrast to the very real accounts and explanations and studies of group hallucinations and the reality of human greed.

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Originally Posted by Egapal

I am certainly not discounting other's experiences. I am not disputing that you and your family had experiences. I am discounting the conclusions you are drawing from those experiences. Despite what you may think reality is NOT what you perceive. There is such a thing as reality irrespective of our perceptions. There are a host of explanations that are far more likely that ghosts. Again I am not passing judgment on you or your family. Beliefs can be perfectly reasonable and still be wrong. As a child for a short period of time I believed in Santa Clause. The existence of Santa was supported by the fact that presents showed up and after all, my parents wouldn't lie. As it turned out I was wrong and what seamed pretty far fetched at the time (my parents were playing Santa) turned out to be true. I am not trying to equate your beliefs to that of believing in Santa or your mentality to that of a child. Let me present some alternatives that are more likely than ghosts. Group hallucinations. Perhaps someone was playing an elaborate hoax or con on you and your family to try and get you out of the house. I am not saying that either of these things is likely only that they are far more likely than ghosts which have never been able to be proved to even exist in stark contrast to the very real accounts and explanations and studies of group hallucinations and the reality of human greed.

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Wow, you want me to bellieve that my family suffered from group hallucinations, and just who would have been playing a "joke" on my family. My sister left this house after breaking the lease and losing months of rent money to do so. BTW, the house had been rented to others and as far as we can determine, no one ever stayed more than 4 months.

Just because you don't believe in something doesn't make it unreal. You can play the doubting Thomas if you'd like, but there are far too many things that happened in this house for me to believe otherwise.

How can you try to judge something when you don't really know anything about this particular subject. Stop watching TV and do some analysis of facts.

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Originally Posted by j_h_smith

Wow, you want me to bellieve that my family suffered from group hallucinations, and just who would have been playing a "joke" on my family. My sister left this house after breaking the lease and losing months of rent money to do so. BTW, the house had been rented to others and as far as we can determine, no one ever stayed more than 4 months.

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I don't want you to believe anything. I am simply presenting possibilities that you seam to have completely discounted in favor of something far less likely. I don't know who would have been playing a joke, but the land lord could have been conning you. You just admitted your sister lost a months rent. Sounds like the landlord is making money on these ghosts. Are you saying that a supernatural ghost is the only answer? Its way more likely that ghost exist than a greedy land lord doing some despicable things.

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Originally Posted by j_h_smith

Just because you don't believe in something doesn't make it unreal. You can play the doubting Thomas if you'd like, but there are far too many things that happened in this house for me to believe otherwise.

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Likewise just because you believe in something doesn't make it real. You can believe what you like but you have not presented any evidence that would make me believe.

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Originally Posted by j_h_smith

How can you try to judge something when you don't really know anything about this particular subject. Stop watching TV and do some analysis of facts.

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I am not sure where you get that I watch too much TV but I am trying to analyze the facts. You have presented none that lead me to believe you experienced a ghost. I know enough about the particular subject to judge. If I have read a considerable amount about how ghosts don't show up under testable conditions and how a healthy human mind can come to the conclusion ghosts exist despite the lack of real evidence.

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Originally Posted by Egapal

I don't want you to believe anything. I am simply presenting possibilities that you seam to have completely discounted in favor of something far less likely. I don't know who would have been playing a joke, but the land lord could have been conning you. You just admitted your sister lost a months rent. Sounds like the landlord is making money on these ghosts. Are you saying that a supernatural ghost is the only answer? Its way more likely that ghost exist than a greedy land lord doing some despicable things.



Likewise just because you believe in something doesn't make it real. You can believe what you like but you have not presented any evidence that would make me believe.



I am not sure where you get that I watch too much TV but I am trying to analyze the facts. You have presented none that lead me to believe you experienced a ghost. I know enough about the particular subject to judge. If I have read a considerable amount about how ghosts don't show up under testable conditions and how a healthy human mind can come to the conclusion ghosts exist despite the lack of real evidence.

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This was 1970, how do you think the landlord made doors open and close with a bang? How did he throw knicknacks across the room, how did he do any number of others things. 1970, not much of a chance electronics came into play. Yes, I'm telling you that we're not back yard bumkins. My family checked oout all kind of possiblilites. Far too many of the extended family witnessed this things.
I'm not trying to make you believe, but why do come on here telling me that what my family experienced has to have some other explanation? Group hullucienations. Now doesn't that sound like some far reach conjecture? I don't see where that even comes close to human interaction with whatever was in this house.

How can you honestly say you can analyze any information presented here when you obviously have a leaning against any of these reports. Open up you mind and look at this objectively, not with your slant.

What makes you the authority to JUDGE (your words not miine) my family's experience in 1970. The mind can play tricks, but there was physical evidence.

This is one reason why I haven't been around this forum for some time. There are so many experts here, I can't imagine how the world existed before you all were born.

You sir are no expert in this subject, so stop playing the part.

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Originally Posted by j_h_smith

This was 1970, how do you think the landlord made doors open and close with a bang? How did he throw knicknacks across the room, how did he do any number of others things. 1970, not much of a chance electronics came into play. Yes, I'm telling you that we're not back yard bumkins. My family checked oout all kind of possiblilites. Far too many of the extended family witnessed this things.
I'm not trying to make you believe, but why do come on here telling me that what my family experienced has to have some other explanation? Group hullucienations. Now doesn't that sound like some far reach conjecture? I don't see where that even comes close to human interaction with whatever was in this house.

How can you honestly say you can analyze any information presented here when you obviously have a leaning against any of these reports. Open up you mind and look at this objectively, not with your slant.

What makes you the authority to JUDGE (your words not miine) my family's experience in 1970. The mind can play tricks, but there was physical evidence.

This is one reason why I haven't been around this forum for some time. There are so many experts here, I can't imagine how the world existed before you all were born.

You sir are no expert in this subject, so stop playing the part.

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You are severely missing my point. You are asking me to believe in something supernatural for which there has never any reliable, repeatable, peer reviewed evidence for. I have seen first hand the wonder of what science has been able to achieve. In this case I consider the lack of evidence to be evidence which we can reasonably due when evidence should be present. Literally any natural explanation is more likely since supernatural things have not been proven to exist. I would sooner except that fairies or aliens were behind your experiences. I am not making a joke here. I would much sooner accept that aliens or fairies did it. As both are at least possible given what I know about the universe. I am not claiming any ultimate knowledge. The world did and does do fine without me. It would not have gotten to the place we are today if people had continued to believe supernatural reasons for the things that occur in nature. Advances have and do come when people reject supernatural explanations for lack of evidence and search out and follow the evidence. You asked me to open my mind. I am doing just that. I am open to a whole host of possible explanations with ghosts at the bottom do to their supernatural nature. You have rejected all possible explanations in favor of the first thing that made since based on ghost stories. For the record magicians have been performing illusions for centuries. You don't need electronics to fake a ghost. I implore you to take your own advice. Look at this objectively. With that I am out. If you want to continue you can message me privately. If you respond to this post I will respond to your privately.

Hey pal, why are you so all fired sure that only you have the answer to any question anyone asks?

Why are you such a bummer? Why are you so negative? Why are you such a downer?

What makes you think anyone wants to hear you spout off about how you know this and you know that and why people are wrong for not believing the same things you do?

You ain't the be all and end all of anything. You're just another schmuck on another website with another opinion. You do have one fine wall up though, got to give you that. It absodamnlutely prevents anything from getting in that you don't 100% approve of.

Kindof a crappy way to view life in my opinion, but then I appreciate mystery more than a little. I'm not sure you even admit mystery exists. Or that anything mysterious exists.

Not everything has a reason. Not everything has a cause. No matter how much you want or need to believe otherwise, those two truths remain.

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Originally Posted by Egapal

I don't see how your being able to imagine it makes it more likely to be true. The point is when you see something you should pull from other things you know to be true when you speculate as to what that thing might be. You should not speculate based on movies, books, or ghost stories that have never been proven to even exist. I am sorry I don't get a chance to read the forum every day. When I get a chance I come on and comment regardless of the age of the thread. I am not arguing with what everyone says. I am making posts specifically to what I consider to be wild claims. I am sorry if you think my comments are rude. The posts that I commented on show for themselves that they don't know facts that support their beliefs. If you believe things without facts I would call you ignorant when it comes to those beliefs. I am certainly not trying to assault anyone's character. I am ignorant when it comes to simple combustion engines that cover the world we live in. I don't go around making claims about how they work and I would suspect if I did someone would point out that I am in fact ignorant on that subject.

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okay, well this is what happened with me, we'll see what your opinion is on this:

my grandma has this chair in her living room, its an old chair, its tall wide, and thin, with a compartment under the seat, the seat lifts up like a trunk. she used to keep two dolls in it and a couple more on top. EVERY night, the lid to the storage compartment would throw itself open, and slam itself shut again, knocking the dolls that were on top to the ground. it always did this between 2 and 5 a.m. constantly. we all have walked into that room and watch it do this. no assisstance from anyone, or anything, no animals in the house, no room for my grandpa or anyone else to sit behind it pulling a string to scare us, no electronic mechanisms or anything like that, just wood, and hinges from the late18's to early 1900's. simple stuff. it did this for more than five years straight, until my grandma finally got rid of the dolls. she still has the chair, and it doesnt make a noise.

second experience:
i was at my dads old house, probably 14-15, maybe 16. anyways, i was sitting around, watching tv, at around 10-10:30P.m. i wasnt watching any scary movies, i wasnt thinking about ghosts or anything like that. so i get tired and go upstairs to go to bed. when i walk in my room, i turned my light on, and in the middle of the room was a girl hanging by a rope. clear as day. couldnt see through her, i was able to move and she kept her same spot in the room, she moved with me (and by this i mean that when i moved right, she moved left in my feild of view, and the rope stayed in the same spot on the ceiling), so i knew it wasnt my eyes playing tricks on me. after a good minute of staring at her, a power fuse blew, and shut everything off up stairs. and by this point i was pretty much terrified, and im not the kind of person that starts freaking out when im scared, im always able to stay calm and keep my mind collected, i wasnt just already scared and making it up in my mind. i ran downstairs, flipped the fuse on, went back upstairs, and the girl was gone. no trace of her. a few months later we discover that the first people to live there, had a teenage daughter, in the room mine was in, and she killed herself by hanging from the ceiling.

so what are your explanations for these two experiences? and dont just say, "well i dont have to give you an explanation becaus eyour most likely making it up" or any other excuses. tell me what would cause these things to occur naturally, please

Since 1994, I've never put anyone on an ignore list, but this guy is definitely my leading candidate for being the first. No threat, just an observation.

pal, I'm not much for PMs about ongoing threads so, should you choose to send me anymore, I will treat them as I did the last you sent.

Deleted without being read.

If you've got something to say worth saying, say it. Don't hide.

Lets try and keep it on topic..

Many thanks.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

pal, I'm not much for PMs about ongoing threads so, should you choose to send me anymore, I will treat them as I did the last you sent.

Deleted without being read.

If you've got something to say worth saying, say it. Don't hide.

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Now you are being completely rediculious. I am trying to respect this forum thread. I can see that there is no further value in giving my opinion. I am don't appreciate your bashing me unanswered and for that I will go against my previous statements to go on record as you have requested with my reply to you

I don't consider myself to be a bummer, negative, or a downer. I don't care if people want to hear me spout off. This is a forum and in a forum people get to voice opinions with some restrictions. I believe I am acting within the bounds of those restrictions. I never claimed to be the be all end all of anything. I am not a schmuck. I don't even have a wall up. I am willing to discuss anything. Unlike you I don't make personal attacks. I merely discuss the issues. I do require that while discussing the issue we use terms we all agree on and can back up our facts and support our beliefs. If you can't do any of that we will tend to have an issue. If you can't we will generally get along. I think the exercise of proper skepticism is a great way to live life buy if you don't like it, that's your right. I admit mystery exists I just don't care to let things remain a mystery. I like to find out why. I am sorry you are wrong, everything does have a cause, it may not have a purpose (I never claimed everything did) but a cause everything does have. So I certainly don't accept the statement that it doesn't as a truth.

Look back on this discussion. I have said in many of my messages, that you can have your beliefs. However, you have tried in every message to assert your beliefs as the only solution to this discussion. You will learn in time, that you don't have all of the answers. You can claim to have knowledge, but would you listen to me. MY FAMILY HAS HAD PERSONNAL INTERACTION with something you don't know about. You were not there. As a matter of fact, you weren't born yet. So STOP telling me the my family suffered from this or that. Stop telling me that we didn't see what we saw. Stop telling me that you know anymore about this than the man on the moon. YOU DON"T KNOW. Get it?

If you're such a hot shot, tell me what day and month my sister moved in, then moved out? If you can't at least tell me this, then you have NO IDEA what my family experienced. You have an opinion, BUT THATS ALL YOU HAVE, IS AN OPINION. Stop trying to tell me anything. I really don't value you opinion at this point. Leave this conversation to folks that are willing to discuss their past experiences. Don't tell us all that we're wrong and you are the only one on this forum that has an answer.

To the mods and admins, this crackpot is exactly why you can't keep the good folks posting here. It is entirely the sole reason I haven't been here for months.

Ban me, kick me off, I don't care, but somebody has got to stand up for the average user here. Telling us to keep it on topic isn't cutting it anymore.

Discussed Again!
Jim Smith

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Lets try and keep it on topic..

Many thanks.

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sorry 'bout that, this thread got a little intense...lol

I do not believe in ghosts.

Here's why.

There is no objectively verifiable evidence for their existence. None.

The only "evidence" anyone has ever been able to put are horrible quality blurry video or photographic recordings, or claims from eyewitnesses.

As to the first, is it so easily faked, so this cannot be considered.
As to the second, there are numerous explanations why someone would make the claim. Anything from intentionally lying, to delusions, hallucinations, or general confusion. People claim to see things all that time which aren't real. I met a guy once who saw the cast of the Mortal Kombat video game in real life as part of his schizophrenic delusions.

If you want to prove the existence of ghosts, you need some kind of independently verifiable experiment.

I can't prove anything, but I know what has occurred in my family life. But there was a time that many things were not known to exist. Giant squid for one example. They were known to exist for centuries but no one ever had physical evidence. With technology, they have verified their existance. Could we just be in the 18th century of understanding ghosts? At one time we thought the moon was made of green cheese, now we know it isn't. Just because we don't understand things, should not discount them as a possible fact.

Spirits/ghosts have been seen for thousands of years. They have been discussed long before we knew the Earth was round and the Universe didn't revolve around our planet.

Sure, for the outsider, I can't expect you to understand what my family had seen/experienced. However, I can tell you that with every fiber of my body, I know what I've experienced. You either accept my experience or you don't.

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Originally Posted by Egapal

You are using that statement out of context to support a claim you have. The law of thermo dynamics does not postulate ghosts. When you shut of your TV is there a TV ghost? When your car stalls, is there a car ghost? Do flies have ghosts, what about fish or ants? I suspect that the reason you believe in Ghosts has very little to do with energy and a lot to do with your elevation of the mind of humans to supernatural status. Unless you can prove something about the mind that you haven't already I don't see any reason to even conjecture that the energy you have when you are alive would continue on as a ghost. The act of dying is the act of the cells dying, they stop producing energy, and the energy dissipating. The bulk of the "energy" of a human body is the flesh which could be eaten by another animal to sustain its life. The small amount of electrical charge dissipates with out the biological functions to support it. Do this experiment. Go out and buy a new battery. Leave it in a drawer in your house for 10 years. After the long wait put the battery in something and see how well it works. Where did all the energy go? Should we assume there is a battery ghost haunting your drawer?

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You are really taking this too seriously. And the car and tv thing is not the same thing as what I just said. I'm not saying that when we die we will become ghosts or such. I'm just saying its a possibility, meaning I could be right or I could be wrong. Stop trying to make this a debate and just let everyone share their own belief. And I never said I believe in ghosts. If I see it then I'll believe it, but there is no scientific fact that there aren't any ghosts. I'm in between.

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Originally Posted by Maddumpling

.... but there is no scientific fact that there aren't any ghosts.

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There are also no scientific "facts" that claim there aren't any leprechauns, faeries, pegasus, pixies, dragons, manticores, sphinxes, flying spaghetti monsters, teapots orbiting mars, invisible pink unicorns, the loch ness monster, bigfoot, yeti's, chupacabra, the lost continent of atlantis, Zeus, Thor, Loki, Odin, Ra, Shiva, Vishnu, Horus, Anu, Innana, Aphrodite, Ilu, Yahweh, Allah, or any other deity, Santa Claus, or the Easter Bunny.

You see, science doesn't deal with things which you cannot observe or cannot test. And no, your own personal experience is not good enough to meet the burden of proof. There are just as many people out there who claim to have experience all the above things I mentioned, do their personal experiences count? Does the personal experience of a man who witnesses tiny green aliens in miniature rocket ships which fly around the room making fun of him provide significant burden of proof for their existence?

Oh and as far as the numbers thing, that's a logical fallacy. The number of people who believe a thing does not make it true or untrue. Things stand on their own merits. The majority of people used to believe lightning and thunder came from the gods. They used to believe the Earth was flat. They used to believe that rotting meat transformed into flies. They used to believe that bleeding people was healthy. They used to believe all kinds of ridiculous things that you yourself would openly mock, so conciser that the next time you commit an appeal to popularity.