emergency question! snake got bit! by another snake

hi, i know it was my fault for feeding while the snakes were in the same tank but i had no problems before and i was keeping a close eye on them, my male went into the new hide box and was hidden and the shedding female was under the other so i placed a mouse by the bigger female so she could eat it without disturbing the other two, neither cared that she was eating, and my male is off feed for some reason so he just kept poking his head out for some reason. so she ate the first mouse no problem and i decided to give her one more for the same feeding, well the problem is that when i put the mouse in, it jumped into the water bowl, the female followed it and it went by the opening to the hide box where the shedding female is, and she had her head poked out of the box, the mouse went by her head and before i could avert the feeding females attention she struck and got the head of the shedding one, she didnt just bite either, she went so far as to try to constrict the other snake, wrapping around her until she realized it was another snake and let her go, i used a shirt and picked up the one that got bit and put the hide over the other to calm her down, took the mouse out and sprayed some water slowly over the face of the shedding female, shes bleeding and has a small gash on her nostril, she seems okay but im worried, now, i put her back in after spraying some water on the other snake, to show her its no longer feeding time and i let the other one in, she wont go near the hide box she was bit in and she went straight for the other one, wich is on the cold side, and the other i decided to see if she would eat it so the mouse wasnt wasted once the others were hidden and she just looked like she felt bad, and now instead of just strikeing, she got really close to the mouse and still wouldnt eat it, at the moment shes just resting her head where she bit the other snake, does she feel bad? and should i take the other to the vet? again, i know this is my fault, i should never feed them together and i know thats a big thing and i should never have taken changes but thats not the point at the moment, my snakes health is the issue, i think i heard her wheezing before i put her back, though i know the water helped, before she was almost shaking with her head hidden. also, will it effect her shedding? like will it make it harder on her to shed?

Is that one, long sentence? I can't even read it...paragraphs...please....

Why are you housing these snakes together? If she has a gash you can use neosporin without pain killers. But I would worry more about the fact you have multiple snakes in one enclosure.

sent from my EVO

This is just one of many reasons why you should not house multiple snakes together! Keep the wound clean and use neosporin without the pain reliever in it. Others will soon see this thread and give you more advice.

I am wondering what you are trying to accomplish by not only housing you animals together but by feeding them while together as well?

Hopefully this time you learn a lesson.

And your BP will be ok this time a snake bite is nothing.

Ok, I just have to say this: Why is that the keepers that break all the "husbandry rules" seem to have the snakes the pound food. Yet, I follow everything by the book and mine are off feed - I just don't get it.

Just had to say it.

Hmmm...I believe this is why they say not to house BP's together? I hope he heals ok and you get them properly setup after this. :colbert:

Everyone pretty much covered it. Put some antibiotic ointment (the cheap stuff is just as good as neosporin) on the wound. Just make sure it DOES NOT have the pain reliever in it, just the normal stuff.

Since everyone else has said it, I won't. Get them seperated into tubs asap. She'll be ok, but all need to have their own space. You can put some neosporin on it, but only once. Then just let it heal by itself.

The most important thing right now is to get them seperated. It's probably going to take awhile for her to start eating again. These animals imprint easily. I would probably give her at least two weeks before you try feeding again.

Oh no! (Feed separate! Feed separate! If you house together you must ALWAYS FEED SEPARATE.)

The problem is, shedding is when snakes heal, and form their scar tissue. And they're particularly vulnerable to injury while in the process of doing it.

I would certainly separate the injured female into another tub for at least one full additional shed cycle, so you can monitor her progress. Clean her up with betadine, give her some humidity and warmth and let's see what she looks like after this shed. Can you take pictures?

If she recovers after the NEXT shed cycle, be careful if you want to reintroduce her to the other snakes. This includes introducing just the male during breeding/pairing. She may be (understandably) defensive towards them.

I'm not trying to be another one of those people that go :colbert: but... That's why we should NEVER house snakes together. The best advice I can give you is to separate all the snakes and keep them separate, and the injured female should be alright as long as you keep the wounds clean. I can't stress the importance of separating at least the wounded female from the others for the sake of hygiene since she does have an open wound on her, but ultimately you should ABSOLUTELY separate all the snakes. I'm willing to bet that the reason your male isn't eating is because he's feeling threatened by the bigger females, and he's being out-competed.

Live and learn. You now have the answers, so run with it.

thanks to everyone, i was prepared for being told i was doing wrong, i knew i was but its all i could do now until i get a new place for my corn snakes, i held the snake and she does look okay, and as i mentioned in the first post, they are only in the same tank because im looking into whats best for them, i do have plastic containers for my hamsters and rodents, wich has humidity but since i dont have a measurement for it, i dont know if its too humid or not, i have a heater in the room to make sure nothing gets too cool and my snakes dont seem to eat unless im watching them.

I know it was bad but they also only eat while in the tank, im assumeing the previous owner fed them in the tanks, i gave my skinny snake a mouse and she ate it, but she was looking for more so i gave her one more mouse, i watched her half way and went to pay attention to the other snakes and when i turned back to her she was back in her box and the mouse was dead by her tail.

Now, i accept any and all things said, im just glad that my snake IS going to be okay, i will get pictures of her if shes feeling okay, ill go check her when im done writing this, I know you all probably think im a bad owner but honestly i just have to do the best i can while i wait to get paid to get the best for my snakes that i can, and it wasnt a male that got bit, someone thought it was, it was my second biggest female thats shedding, her eyes are still blue.

I feel really bad for whats happened to my ball pythons and again i know its completely my fault, and i know the rules, the male was with the skinny girl but someone told me that was a bad idea so i removed him, wich is the only reason he is in with the 2 girls.

Also for those who still dont know from my other post, i weighed the skinny girl and some how she weighs 1300 grams (wich is strange because you can feel her bones...)

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Originally Posted by L.West

Ok, I just have to say this: Why is that the keepers that break all the "husbandry rules" seem to have the snakes the pound food. Yet, I follow everything by the book and mine are off feed - I just don't get it.

Just had to say it.

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dont feel bad, one of mine is off feed and i still dont know why, ive been told many ways to try to get them to eat, yeah the females have no problem but the male does, hes not eaten since i got him

okay, i just checked on her like i said i was and shes back in the first hide, in the heat, and she seems okay, i took pictures, i dont know how great they will show her face, she didnt want me terribly close. i also took a picture of the rat i was told that the snakes should be eating 2 of every couple weeks, the tank is a 10 gallon so hes pretty big, and he also said that if they dont eat dip the rat in chicken broth and the snake will eat it, is that even safe?

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...e/100_2427.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...e/100_2428.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...e/100_2426.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...e/100_2429.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...e/100_2430.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...e/100_2431.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...e/100_2432.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...e/100_2433.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...e/100_2435.jpg

and my cat who likes to be around the snakes...

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...e/100_2425.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...e/100_2439.jpg

the corn snakes (Anery, Snow, AmelxSnow, ClassicxMotley)

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...e/100_2437.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...e/100_2438.jpg

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...e/100_2440.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...e/100_2441.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...e/100_2444.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...e/100_2445.jpg


what i did was i gave the two girls their own hide box over the heat and i moved the hamsters to give the male his own housing in the 60quart container, i know its probably too big for him but its all i got that i know has humidity in the room

I can't read this post anymore. You make me nervous. You have some beautiful snakes I hope you can get it together and get them situated before you do start breeding. I'm not trying to be mean I know your doing the best you can.

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Originally Posted by DellaF

I can't read this post anymore. You make me nervous. You have some beautiful snakes I hope you can get it together and get them situated before you do start breeding. I'm not trying to be mean I know your doing the best you can.

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yes i know they are beautiful wich is why im trying with what i have, what do you expect to happen over less then 24 hours? anyways, if you decide to check back at a later day when i am able to get what i need they will be much happier im sure

I hope you are not taking everything to heart because everyone is just trying to help you. But when you post all the snakes you did and all the bp's dont look to be in great health alot of us that took the time and saved to get where we got just get worried for the snakes health.

There just needs to come a time where someone offers u a snake and u have to say no because u cant care for it. When I ordered my two babies online I had to run out and spend 86$ on stuff to care for them for two days befor everything I needed came. Befor you go into it there just needs to be the idea of what you will spend and save some on the side incase a thermostat goes or a vet visit.

if you have any questions about a rack or anything let me know I posted my pic of my rack in your prev thread

Quote:

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Originally Posted by L.West

Ok, I just have to say this: Why is that the keepers that break all the "husbandry rules" seem to have the snakes the pound food. Yet, I follow everything by the book and mine are off feed - I just don't get it.

Just had to say it.

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Snakes are like women. If you dote on them and try to be perfect, they are not interested; however, break the rules a bit and be a bit of an ass and they will fall all over you. The balls respond to those breeders the same way a chick would!

At least put a cage divider in there...better than nothing. Divide the cage so that both halves stillhave a temperature gradient. Get seperate tubs asap.

I still don't understand. You don't measure heat or humidity? Is it just a heater heating? They need an undertank heater for belly heat, put on a thermostat, and measured with a thermometer to make sure temps are good.

Each tub you put those babies in needs a hot side and cold site. 80-82 cold, and 90-92 warm. I know you are trying your best, but you have no idea what your doing.

I am really sorry and I hope we can get these creatures in suitable homes. But, if you can't take care of an animal, you shouldn't buy it. Study everything, and then study some more. Make sure you know what your doing, before you do it.

I screwed up on my first snake because of pet store directions. Thank goodness I found this site to correct it. BP.net has saved many animals, not just ball pythons. As long as you know what's wrong and change it.

Good luck.

im not getting rid of any of my snakes, ive only had them for a few days and the male for a week and a half, some of you have really been nice and supportive but some of you just dont want to give anyone a chance, honestly i believe that they are better off with me then with who they were with, while with him they got how they are now

I know some people might say im wrong in saying so but i really do care about my animals, reptiles and all, as ive said, i wasnt expecting to get what i did, the first day i got the snakes i had 3 tanks, 2 10 gallon and the larger one, i intended to buy one snake and ended up decideing to get all, expecting to be getting the tubs same day, i have plans to get what i need, as i have stated, i do not need any more bad comments, i understand and i would really like to stay with this site, for my snakes if nothing else

so far ive taken everything in stride, nothing bad at all comeing from me, ive done better from where i started and i was hoping for some nice criticism, not more rude comments, i cant split the tank because i only have one under tank heater, if i split it, only one snake gets heat. i do moniter the heat, sadly only with tank thermometers right now, i already have digital ones ordered.

if you have something to say about myself or my snakes, then please all i ask is you not suggest i get rid of my pets.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kyokitty666

im not getting rid of any of my snakes, ive only had them for a few days and the male for a week and a half, some of you have really been nice and supportive but some of you just dont want to give anyone a chance, honestly i believe that they are better off with me then with who they were with, while with him they got how they are now

I know some people might say im wrong in saying so but i really do care about my animals, reptiles and all, as ive said, i wasnt expecting to get what i did, the first day i got the snakes i had 3 tanks, 2 10 gallon and the larger one, i intended to buy one snake and ended up decideing to get all, expecting to be getting the tubs same day, i have plans to get what i need, as i have stated, i do not need any more bad comments, i understand and i would really like to stay with this site, for my snakes if nothing else

so far ive taken everything in stride, nothing bad at all comeing from me, ive done better from where i started and i was hoping for some nice criticism, not more rude comments, i cant split the tank because i only have one under tank heater, if i split it, only one snake gets heat. i do moniter the heat, sadly only with tank thermometers right now, i already have digital ones ordered.

if you have something to say about myself or my snakes, then please all i ask is you not suggest i get rid of my pets.

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I know I sounded mean. I'm sorry. I wasn't suggesting getting rid of anyone. I'm only trying to help, and I just want to know what your setup is like. I just don't want them getting sick, or dying. And, they need a hotside and coldside. They need to be seperated asap. And each enclosure you put them in needs a hot side and a cold side. I'm only interested in the snakes health. I want to know you are measuring their temps. I'm just trying to prevent something else from going wrong, and i'm telling you without these necessary steps there will be more problems if bad conditions continue.

I know you love your snakes, I loved mine even when I didn't know what I was doing. I had my baby in a 50 gallon with only a heat lamp, and i'm lucky he didn't get sick. Take everything in stride, you are doing awesome. But, you have to not just listen. Take action.

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Originally Posted by stratus_020202

I know I sounded mean. I'm sorry. I wasn't suggesting getting rid of anyone. I'm only trying to help, and I just want to know what your setup is like. I just don't want them getting sick, or dying. And, they need a hotside and coldside. They need to be seperated asap. And each enclosure you put them in needs a hot side and a cold side. I'm only interested in the snakes health. I want to know you are measuring their temps. I'm just trying to prevent something else from going wrong, and i'm telling you without these necessary steps there will be more problems if bad conditions continue.

I know you love your snakes, I loved mine even when I didn't know what I was doing. I had my baby in a 50 gallon with only a heat lamp, and i'm lucky he didn't get sick. Take everything in stride, you are doing awesome. But, you have to not just listen. Take action.

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i am taking action, like i posted somewhere either here or in another of my posts, i am taking action, ive given them hides, ive regulated when the lamp is and isnt on, ive given them each individual hides, ive made a seperate tub for my male snake, at the moment he doesnt have a cool side but at least i know he wont freeze, and if he does need cool, his bowl is cool wether the tub is warm or not, he has his own hide as well.

I love all my animals, and god forbid they do get sick, i wont let them get to the point its irriversable, you know? if they get sick i would take them to the vet, wether i had the money right away or not, ive seen a couple posts here about people really neglecting their ball pythons and i feel really bad that it seems like people are telling me im neglecting mine, and in reality im taking care of mine a million times better then some people do, and im just getting started, if i had to, i would spend thousands to make my snakes comfortable, it would take time but i would do it.

i want people to understand im not just trying to breed the snakes, or i would have gotten morphs, before i think about breeding i got these normal females because i want to handle them and get myself used to bigger snakes, to understand what it will take to care for them, i know what im doing, its hard for me because i have no support on my end, from any family at all, most are afraid of the snakes.

i was born around animals, i was born with horses, birds, dogs, fish, chickens, geese, and ducks, and it wasnt anything that was small, all animals were large, even the birds, they were amazon macaws and forrest birds, and an african grey bird, as well as one that was bigger then me when i was born, we had large gold fish and dobermans as pets, 3 of them, we had about 6 horses and 2 geese, 3 chickens and 2 ducks.

now, again all i want is people to give me some advice to better how i can care for my pets not tell me how wrong im doing it, i already know there are problems with the way im going about caring for them but like ive posted before, i cant make major changes in just a couple days, at least, not until i get paid, when i do, i want the best for my snakes. wich means they are staying with me

It's important to understand that everyone only has the animals best interests in mind. I know you do too, but this is why it's important to fully understand your capabilities. I take alot of rescues in myself but I at times when I have too many at once have had to turn one down. It's really hard to do that. But I have to give everyone their own space. I hope that you have separated them and have learned a really hard crappy lesson. You should never house 2 or more together and you should especially never feed together. It's important to know everything you can about any animal you take in and never assume with them. They have wild instincts. There has been cases of canabalism and suffocation when more than one bp is housed together. Not to mention over crowding and dominance will stress any animal out.
Also dipping a rat in chicken broth will do nothing to help the animal eat. Possibly the reason he isn't eating is bc of the over crowded cage. Using a uth without a thermostat is also putting the animals at high risk for thermal burns. They get extremely hot and bp don't have the same pain receptors we do. They will sit on an over heating uth and burn themselves very badly to the point of death at times.
Everyone on here deeply cares about not just their own animals but the whole communities. Even though the advice may be harsh it is the truth and it should be heeded. I think that if you are serious about wanting and keeping these animals you must do the things everyone is suggesting, ask as many questions as you can and research everything as much as you can. Read everything about them. We all start somewhere, it's just important to not accidentally get over your head and cause more harm. Its for the good of the animals. And they deserve the best.
For the treatment of the bite. Don't use neosprorine at all. It actually does more harm than good. It's oil based and softens their scales, possibly making them more suceptable to further injury. Go to your local drug store and get Betadyne, it's an iodine solution and cleans wounds very well. You should get a qtip and dip it in the betadyne and put it right on the wound. This will heal it nicely, and not soften his scales. Do this 2x daily. I hope this helps in some way.
Morgan
Ps sorry it's long winded. ;)

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Originally Posted by tsealock

Snakes are like women. If you dote on them and try to be perfect, they are not interested; however, break the rules a bit and be a bit of an ass and they will fall all over you. The balls respond to those breeders the same way a chick would!

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Am I the only one who thinks that is the quote of the month? I want to put that in my signatue line!

Hi Kyokitty... is the problem that you don't have any more money to spare for another tub?

It's fairly cheap to get another tub and heat mat and put dimmers on all enclosures. It is a much cheaper option than the risk of a vet visit. Maybe you can find some plastic bins in your house that you are using for things like Christmas decorations and such that you can use temporarily.

Basically, you need a heatmat (about $15 from PetCo), a dimmer (about $10 from Lowe's), a plastic storage bin (about $12 at Wal-mart)... or around $40 for one set-up unless you got some plastic bins around the house you can use which brings it down to $25.

Here's what you need for each snake.

1 sterilite tub at least 32l or more
1 heat pad to cover no more than 1/3
Of bottom of the tub.
1 water bowel big enough for them to soak in. ( I like the big plastic dog bowls you can get them at walmart or dollar stores)
1 hide only big enough for them to cram themselves into. ( I like the plastic bowls bc in my tubs my snakes go under them and it serves as there cool end hide as well)

Things you need for heat monitoring, and basic set up
1thermostat- you can hook all of the heat pads up to this and it turns them on and off according to the temps the probe is getting.
1 digital indoor outdoor thermometer
This will go next to the thermostat probe and it will tell you exactly how hot your hot side is.
1 spray bottle- spray 2x daily for humidity.

How hot should the hotside be?
Between 90-92.f

How cold should the cold side be?
It will generally be in between 75-80.f

Why do they absolutely need the two different zones?
Bps regulate their temps by going back and forth. They are ectothermic. Given only a hotside they will over heat and dehydrate leading to possible constipation problems, shed issues, and also death. Given only a coldside they will not eat, and possible respiratory infections will occur. Worst case senarios Death.

So this is a pretty basic setup, and not to costly either. But this is what you absolutely need to do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Homegrownscales

It's important to understand that everyone only has the animals best interests in mind. I know you do too, but this is why it's important to fully understand your capabilities. I take alot of rescues in myself but I at times when I have too many at once have had to turn one down. It's really hard to do that. But I have to give everyone their own space. I hope that you have separated them and have learned a really hard crappy lesson. You should never house 2 or more together and you should especially never feed together. It's important to know everything you can about any animal you take in and never assume with them. They have wild instincts. There has been cases of canabalism and suffocation when more than one bp is housed together. Not to mention over crowding and dominance will stress any animal out.
Also dipping a rat in chicken broth will do nothing to help the animal eat. Possibly the reason he isn't eating is bc of the over crowded cage. Using a uth without a thermostat is also putting the animals at high risk for thermal burns. They get extremely hot and bp don't have the same pain receptors we do. They will sit on an over heating uth and burn themselves very badly to the point of death at times.
Everyone on here deeply cares about not just their own animals but the whole communities. Even though the advice may be harsh it is the truth and it should be heeded. I think that if you are serious about wanting and keeping these animals you must do the things everyone is suggesting, ask as many questions as you can and research everything as much as you can. Read everything about them. We all start somewhere, it's just important to not accidentally get over your head and cause more harm. Its for the good of the animals. And they deserve the best.
For the treatment of the bite. Don't use neosprorine at all. It actually does more harm than good. It's oil based and softens their scales, possibly making them more suceptable to further injury. Go to your local drug store and get Betadyne, it's an iodine solution and cleans wounds very well. You should get a qtip and dip it in the betadyne and put it right on the wound. This will heal it nicely, and not soften his scales. Do this 2x daily. I hope this helps in some way.
Morgan
Ps sorry it's long winded. ;)

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im glad you understand and i think its good what your doing, also, the snake is fine, i didnt use anything because i wanted to make sure she was okay before puting her in more stress of putting something weird over her face.

i am taking everything in that im being told, i read that this is suppost to be a very friendly site and ive been shown thats only half true. but im still here because i want the best for my snakes.

also about the under tank heater, im careful with it, i check on it several times daily and most of the time, over the substrate its barely even warm.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by anatess

Hi Kyokitty... is the problem that you don't have any more money to spare for another tub?

It's fairly cheap to get another tub and heat mat and put dimmers on all enclosures. It is a much cheaper option than the risk of a vet visit. Maybe you can find some plastic bins in your house that you are using for things like Christmas decorations and such that you can use temporarily.

Basically, you need a heatmat (about $15 from PetCo), a dimmer (about $10 from Lowe's), a plastic storage bin (about $12 at Wal-mart)... or around $40 for one set-up unless you got some plastic bins around the house you can use which brings it down to $25.

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what im saying is that TEMPORARILY i dont have the money, im only saying that between now and when i get the money, if it so happens that one or more need vet visits i will do it, i dont want that to happen but im saying if it does im not going to just let them suffer, i did put one in a bin i had other animals in and he seems okay so far but im still keeping an eye on him, and the other two, they are also in the tank together TEMPORARY until i get them other places

now i only capitalized those to make sure people see that, again ive only had them a few days and already ive gotten hides, extra bowls, put them in their own room with the window covered to keep out the cool air, and overal just trying to keep them in the warmest part of the house.

Im still replying because i care and im still trying to improve my animals habitat, and i understand im new here and im kinda feel like that has something to do with the rudeness? i thank everyone that has been kind and who has given me support, and to those who are rude, i thank the ones who accually gave me advice through the rudeness

now, i wont post so many pictures because i dont need people thinking i have more then 4 ball pythons, i end up taking like 5 pictures of the same snake

Don't worry, the herpers on this board is really friendly and helpful. Everyone is just very serious about his or her collection. They all spend enormous amounts of time, energy, and money not only on their snakes, but ensuring their optimal health and happiness.

We all love ball pythons and just want to see what is best for the snakes. I can see you are doing the best you can, and I give you credit for coming on here and putting yourself in the line of fire in the first place. Just keep them warm, feed them separately (you should have them set up by the time they need to eat again), and set them up properly as soon as you can. Good luck!

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Originally Posted by kyokitty666

i am taking everything in that im being told, i read that this is suppost to be a very friendly site and ive been shown thats only half true. but im still here because i want the best for my snakes.

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Dont let them get to you, some have forgotten where and how they started.
At the end of the day you have to feel YOU are doing the best you can regardless of what anyone posts on a message board. None of us are in your house so its not like we are REALLY there to help and see the situation.

Take everything in stride as you are. These are wild animals that do not always live in the perfect conditions in the wild but they manage to survive;)

And sometimes we forget that there are new members. :) Who just need a little education. I get into that mode of, "you did what?" without knowing they just don't know any better.

So, lets start back at square one. Have you read the caresheet? And made a shopping list? http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ius)-Caresheet

Honestly, I think it's cheaper to buy online depending on where you live. And, don't get rainforest heat pads. They are a pain, and their max temp is very low. I would switch the girls to paper towels too, at least the injured one. That way you can watch how she's healing and check for blood. I use brawny. They are pretty thick.

I would also get rid of the cardboard boxes. My babies like to poo as close their hides as possible, and you don't want their homes caving in. You can use tupperware/gladware bowls and cut a door out of the side or the top. And paint it. It's fun to come up with different colors as long as it's dark inside.

Let us know if you need any help with specific items. It's hard to cover the whole set up in one post. Glad the big girl is going to be ok. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by L.West

Ok, I just have to say this: Why is that the keepers that break all the "husbandry rules" seem to have the snakes the pound food. Yet, I follow everything by the book and mine are off feed - I just don't get it.

Just had to say it.

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Wow I was thinking the exact same thing. I have a 1200 gram ball python in a 3'x2'x2' plastic enclosure with two tight fitting hides perfect temps, perfect humidity, UTH on a thermostat. Fake vines added 2 months ago to provide lots of ground clutter and my BP who was eating steady for 8 months prior is on a 4 month winter fast. One month longer than last year.

Meanwhile kyokitty666 has 3 BP all in a single tank. All are presumably at breeding weights but not to worry here comes a mouse. Now on top of 2 of the 3 snakes having a great feeding response its one snake in shed.

kyokitty666 please tell me that you have a plan for the huge clutch of perfect eggs you are no doubt going to get.

Ok so I finished reading the whole thread. kyokitty666 you need to read more, a lot more. I don't mean any of this in a mean way so if it sounds mean please remember I am trying to help. Right now I see you assuming a lot of things. From what I have read you should throw out everything you think you know. 1 snake per enclosure, tank, tub, or expensive fancy enclosure you are not ready for more than 1 snake per enclosure. You said that you grew up around animals so you should know this one already. Boy's and Girls need to be separate at all times or else we will be answering your new post "What do I do with these eggs I just got". There are a lot of posts on here like that. "Well I only had them together while I cleaned." "The previous owner told me they were both female." Mistakes happen when people assume things. So thats the big issue.

Next, temps and humidity. You say you are checking the heating sources a few times a day and they barely get warm. What are you checking with. Your hand is a really bad judge of temp. Use a thermometer or else you have no idea what the temps really are. Despite the fact that my snake is currently not eating, I believe others will back me up in saying that proper temp and humidity is important and not having proper levels can cause your snakes to go of feed or worse get burned. Don't guess at your levels. Know them.

Feeding. Adult BP's really should be fed prey larger than mice. Once you take care of the other issues consider switching to rats.

Read read read. Read up on your BP's and on your corn snakes, and while your at it there is a lot of good info on rodents. I have said it before its called Animal Husbandry and it means the careful applications of the science, skill and art of raising and breeding animals. I have no doubt that you have the animals and you care for them. You need to learn the science quickly so you can start building the skill and discovering the art.

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Originally Posted by Egapal

Ok so I finished reading the whole thread. kyokitty666 you need to read more, a lot more. I don't mean any of this in a mean way so if it sounds mean please remember I am trying to help. Right now I see you assuming a lot of things. From what I have read you should throw out everything you think you know. 1 snake per enclosure, tank, tub, or expensive fancy enclosure you are not ready for more than 1 snake per enclosure. You said that you grew up around animals so you should know this one already. Boy's and Girls need to be separate at all times or else we will be answering your new post "What do I do with these eggs I just got". There are a lot of posts on here like that. "Well I only had them together while I cleaned." "The previous owner told me they were both female." Mistakes happen when people assume things. So thats the big issue.

Next, temps and humidity. You say you are checking the heating sources a few times a day and they barely get warm. What are you checking with. Your hand is a really bad judge of temp. Use a thermometer or else you have no idea what the temps really are. Despite the fact that my snake is currently not eating, I believe others will back me up in saying that proper temp and humidity is important and not having proper levels can cause your snakes to go of feed or worse get burned. Don't guess at your levels. Know them.

Feeding. Adult BP's really should be fed prey larger than mice. Once you take care of the other issues consider switching to rats.

Read read read. Read up on your BP's and on your corn snakes, and while your at it there is a lot of good info on rodents. I have said it before its called Animal Husbandry and it means the careful applications of the science, skill and art of raising and breeding animals. I have no doubt that you have the animals and you care for them. You need to learn the science quickly so you can start building the skill and discovering the art.

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hey, im sorry that you dont seem to understand my posts, i do know the rules, yes i was raised around animals, wich is why i know this, like ive said over and over its only temporary that they are together and the male is not interested in the females, hes young, a little boy, i had him in his own tub, and the females are only still together for lack of containers at the moment.

Key words "AT THE MOMENT" im getting sick of people saying i dont know what im doing, just because at this moment i dont have the right things i need doesnt mean i dont know what im doing, its too late now, i have the snakes, theres no turning back so instead of telling me what ive been told over and over why dont you tell me somthing i dont know?

or, is it that there is nothing i dont know? also, i do have rats, i didnt want to give her somthing large with the other snake in the tank, today i gave her a medium rat because i could no longer see signs that she had eaten, and she had pooped, so i let her eat.

my snakes arent miserable, they are fine, not perfect but you cant expect changes like everyone here seems to expect within days, it will take at least a month to see a change in the skinny female, but im working with her, and shes a sweetheart, i also house mice, hamsters and rats in the room, none have died... except the ones being fed to snakes :snake: ...but otherwise they are fine, breeding purposly, for my snakes, although one pair im breeding to see the if the babies take the fathers fur.... anyways

you arent here in my home, you cant tell me im not taking care of them, and you may say my hand is a bad tester, but i dont just touch the subtrate, i touch it long enough to see if it gets hot, and then i move the substrate to check the glass as well as the bottom, where it adheres to the glass.

now, again i care about my snakes, and the injured one is doing a lot better, the bleeding didnt continue and she doesnt look like shes going to have any scar tissue, but if you think paper towels are better i can easily change it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Egapal

Feeding. Adult BP's really should be fed prey larger than mice. Once you take care of the other issues consider switching to rats.

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I didnt know ASFs got as big as the rats most people feed their BPs??

Hi,

I promise this won't be a rant or attack - I have some information to share on some of the points you mentioned that may help in the future. :)

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Originally Posted by kyokitty666

hey, im sorry that you dont seem to understand my posts, i do know the rules, yes i was raised around animals, wich is why i know this, like ive said over and over its only temporary that they are together and the male is not interested in the females, hes young, a little boy, i had him in his own tub, and the females are only still together for lack of containers at the moment.

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What size is he? I had one of my males breed and sire a clutch at just over 400g :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kyokitty666

Key words "AT THE MOMENT" im getting sick of people saying i dont know what im doing, just because at this moment i dont have the right things i need doesnt mean i dont know what im doing, its too late now, i have the snakes, theres no turning back so instead of telling me what ive been told over and over why dont you tell me somthing i dont know?

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You can split your large tank by moving the heatmat to the middle with half in each side. :ninja:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kyokitty666

or, is it that there is nothing i dont know? also, i do have rats, i didnt want to give her somthing large with the other snake in the tank, today i gave her a medium rat because i could no longer see signs that she had eaten, and she had pooped, so i let her eat.

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Quite a few of us never feed anything larger than a small rat (60-100g ) on a once every 7 day cycle and find it works well for us in preventing fasts.

The smaller meals more often can result in more food being consumed in the year compared to a large rat every 10-14 days which can result in a 3 month fast.

It's generally easier to refer to rats by weight as almost every shop or website has entirely different ideas of what constitutes a small rat or a large one. :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kyokitty666

you arent here in my home, you cant tell me im not taking care of them, and you may say my hand is a bad tester, but i dont just touch the subtrate, i touch it long enough to see if it gets hot, and then i move the substrate to check the glass as well as the bottom, where it adheres to the glass.

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The reason for saying your hand is a bad tester has more to do with your body temperature actually - my hands at the moment are sitting at 92f which is perfect for the hot end of a ball pythons tank.

So, to me, the hot spot wouldn't feel warm or cold as it is the same temp as my hand. Anything that does feel hot to your touch is potentially hot enough to actually result in burns on the snake.

This also explains why most new keepers freak out that their snake feels cool all the time - mine generally stay at a body temp of around 86f give or take. ;)

But temps are the most vital thing to get right ( as you already know ) so we recommend people go for a good digital thermometer with a probe ( like the acurite from walmart for $14 ) - the round analogue ones are very inaccurate and for some reason people tend to stick them half way up the wall. God knows why as it's not like they have a floating snake. :rolleyes:

A dimmer switch is a good temporary method of controling a heat mat but it does require a lot of monitoring and tweaking so it gets old fast.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kyokitty666

now, again i care about my snakes, and the injured one is doing a lot better, the bleeding didnt continue and she doesnt look like shes going to have any scar tissue, but if you think paper towels are better i can easily change it.

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I probably would - it just make certain nothing gets into the wound to cause problems later. Especially if you are putting anything on it as any dust tends to stick to it or get ground in as the snake goes about its snakey business.


dr del

I just don't understand why you got that many snakes to begin with, not having the proper housing for them? I have read this thread about 3 times trying to see if I've missed somewhere that it was explain how you ended up with so many snakes and not the right husbandry, but I don't see that. It's great that you love animals and want to have them, but why go out and buy more of them than you have the housing and set-up for?

Also, you said even if you didn't have the money for a vet bill, you would take them. How are you going to pay for a vet when you don't have the money to get them in the correct tanks/tubs?

I don't think anyone is trying to "hurt your feelings" or be "unfriendly" but it's understandable how they have reacted. I understand you're new to snakes, so am I, and I don't even have my first one yet, but I'm completely puzzled as to why you would buy them or take them in when you cannot house them.

No one expects you to be a "perfect" owner with a "perfect" set-up, because nothing in life is perfect so it's impossible. If they say it is possible, they're wrong because everyone "messes up" or "stumbles" from time to time, no matter the situation. I really think that almost everyone on this site has the best of intentions, even if they come off a bit harsh.

I am sorry that you misunderstood my post by I did not misunderstand yours. I get that your working at your setup and I get that you are in this for the long haul. Don't take my post or others the wrong way.

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Originally Posted by kyokitty666

the male is not interested in the females, hes young, a little boy, i had him in his own tub, and the females are only still together for lack of containers at the moment.

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You have no need to defend yourself. End of the day these are your animals. That being said, how big do you think a male needs to be in order to breed? If you don't know for sure then how can you justify saying he has no interest. Little boys breed big girls all the time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kyokitty666

Key words "AT THE MOMENT" im getting sick of people saying i dont know what im doing, just because at this moment i dont have the right things i need doesnt mean i dont know what im doing, its too late now, i have the snakes, theres no turning back so instead of telling me what ive been told over and over why dont you tell me somthing i dont know?

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If your sick of hearing it then don't read it. If you really want to be told something you don't know, then keep reading and be active on the forum. I have learned a tremendous amount from this site.

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Originally Posted by kyokitty666

today i gave her a medium rat because i could no longer see signs that she had eaten, and she had pooped, so i let her eat.

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The above comments are exactly what I was warning against. Don't feed your snake when you think it looks hungry, or when you think it has finished digesting. You don't need to wait for her to poop. Offer your snake a meal on a schedule, every 7 days, 10 days, some people offer every other week. Feed on feeding day. If your snake refuses try again on the next feeding day. Weigh your snake every month or so. If your snake is looking skinny or fat you can adjust accordingly. This is the science part of husbandry.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kyokitty666

my snakes arent miserable, they are fine, not perfect but you cant expect changes like everyone here seems to expect within days, it will take at least a month to see a change in the skinny female, but im working with her, and shes a sweetheart, i also house mice, hamsters and rats in the room, none have died... except the ones being fed to snakes :snake: ...but otherwise they are fine, breeding purposly, for my snakes, although one pair im breeding to see the if the babies take the fathers fur.... anyways

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No one expects things to change over night with your animals. Read and learn and take the necessary steps to fix the issues you have. Even the most experienced keepers have issues. There is nothing to be defensive about. Its not about you its about your snakes. I am sure your rodents are great.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kyokitty666

you arent here in my home, you cant tell me im not taking care of them, and you may say my hand is a bad tester, but i dont just touch the subtrate, i touch it long enough to see if it gets hot, and then i move the substrate to check the glass as well as the bottom, where it adheres to the glass.

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I am not in your home. You have shown us that you have issues. Only you know how things are going. Your hand is a bad tester, its not a matter of opinion. If your hand gets hot then your temps are at dangerous levels. Your temps could be way off and be affecting your animals negatively without causing major burns. The hope is that you can have a thriving animal not just a burn free one. All it costs is a few dollars for a good thermometer. Search this sight for "burns" you will find a lot of people who love their animals who felt with their hands and ended up with a snake with burns. I am not saying its going to happen to you. I am saying it could. Get a thermometer and your chances go down.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kyokitty666

now, again i care about my snakes, and the injured one is doing a lot better, the bleeding didnt continue and she doesnt look like shes going to have any scar tissue, but if you think paper towels are better i can easily change it.

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I am glad your snake is doing better. If there is any kind of an open wound the best thing is to get your snake in its own tub with clean paper towels changed daily or more often if she tips her water bowl or soils them. The key is to keep the wound clean.

Good luck and I hope your snakes settle in well with you.

i think im going to go away from the posts for a little while, just until i accually get everything for the snakes, im doing what i can for them, and i understand i could move the heating pad but even then i wouldnt feel it right to give them such small space, and ive read that the males have to be at least i believe 600 grams, but ive also read males as small as 300 have been able to get the job done, and i say he isnt interested because most of the time hes in his own hide box, not with them, otherwise hes drinking water or poking his head out of the box.

im not saying i did it only because she looked hungry, i fed her because it had been sufficient days, i believe im taking care of my pets and when i have the things i need, they will be much better, and when i get everything, ill post again.

about the vet, im saying that if they need to go to the vet ill take them, i dont know how to explain what im saying, just that if there is somthing wrong i will fix it, the money isnt an issue, but right now it is, i wasnt expecting to get 3 females, the first one i got was the male, from a kid that wanted to kill him.

the story for my male ball python is very simple, the kids that had him asked me if i wanted to buy their snake, i didnt think i was ready and i asked to just see a picture of him, and through that time i looked up how to care for him, problem is, they came over out of no where with the snake and showed him to me.

now i dont think i have the best judgement but ive never seen a snake look more scared then when i saw him open the box with the snake in it, apparently the kid had rarely held the snake, afraid of being bit and he claims the snake has struck at himself and his friends before but ever since i got him, he hasnt... what happened next is i went about getting the $40 for the snake, he told me he would give me the tank and the light with him so i asked him to bring it over.

before he came back with the tank, my fiance sat beside me in the room with the snake and he told me the boys told him that they were going to skin the snake alive that night if they hadnt sold him, claiming their dad wanted it gone because it was getting big, and they were going to eat him. so im accually very happy that i bought him, even if he isnt in the best housing right now, hes not dead, and thats what counts to me.

i know it may not to a lot of people here, but knowing that i saved his life and that he is doing better here makes me happy, it also makes me want to get him even better, hes a beautiful snake and doesnt look like a normal to me but again, i wouldnt know. also im taking the girls in to have them sexed, just in case they arent females, even though the guy who sold them to me, he claims that one gave him 8 eggs last year and one gave him 11 eggs last year, wich also makes me kind of worry about the snakes.

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Originally Posted by kyokitty666

about the vet, im saying that if they need to go to the vet ill take them, i dont know how to explain what im saying, just that if there is somthing wrong i will fix it, the money isnt an issue, but right now it is, i wasnt expecting to get 3 females, the first one i got was the male, from a kid that wanted to kill him.

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Sorry, this makes NO sense.. Money either is or isn't an issue. What do you mean you weren't expecting 3 females? I thought you had 2 females and 1 male? Am I the only one REALLY confused here?

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Originally Posted by ShortStack

Sorry, this makes NO sense.. Money either is or isn't an issue. What do you mean you weren't expecting 3 females? I thought you had 2 females and 1 male? Am I the only one REALLY confused here?

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obviously i cant explain it to you, im saying if by chance there is somthing seriously wrong with them before i get everything prepared for them, then i will do what i need to do, im not saying i want that to happen at all, but if it does im prepared, money isnt an issue, im just waiting to get paid to go out and get stuff for them.

and no, i have 3 adult females and one young male, at least i think hes a boy, it could be a girl as well, since the guy who sold the girls to me checked him and couldnt see anything.

Well, she should be fine, but only time will tell.

Hopefully you learned your lesson, don't keep your BP's together, EVER. Except of course, during breeding times.

There was a post just a short time ago titled smallest breeding male. Put it to you this way. If a male is producing sperm plugs he will make babies. Why would you be concerned about the girls laying two proportionally sized clutches? That's
Completely normal but totally beyond any concerns really at the moment. I think in all everyone is very happy that you want to make changes. But you asked before for people to tell you something you don't know. Or is it that there is nothing you dont know. From what I've seen with the advice and answers posted, there are things you dont know and the advice had been completly on the right track and sound advice. There's alot of things that goes in to these guys, and the easier thing to do usually is to have everything prepared before the animals come. But that isn't always what happens. I think everyone agrees that what you did by saving the male was an amazing thing for that little male, the other two girls just sound like they just laid eggs and them being skinny is totally normal especially after a large clutch each. But even though you took in three
Amazing animals I think some Dangerous compromises were established without having a full understanding on how to safely house 1 not to mention 3. When you rescue even if you don't plan on it you need to be prepared for anything and if compromises even for a short time need to be made they need to be made with a full understanding of what husbandry needs still have
To be met no matter what. I think for now the two girls being in one tank as long as they have a hot and cool side and as long as they are fed separately will be ok for the time being until you get paid. That being said, it is strongly not recommended to keep them this way. Also for both their set up and the males you need to have a digital thermometer. Your hand is not going to work. If you can feel the heat it's too hot. Also for your males set up. I hope by now he has a hot side and a cool side. Just having a bowl to cool down in is dangerous as well as water gets warm too. They need two thermal gradients at around 10-15.f difference to adjust temps. If the temps are too close together bad things will happen. These are of course temporary set ups but until you get paid you will know that the animals will at least have no further health issues. Over heating a snake is easy to do and can have irriversible brain damage. Just food for thought.

Hi kyo... just trying to help here...

Regarding temperature, as Dr. Del mentioned, you can "eyeball" the temperature if you don't have a thermometer as follows:

Put your hand under your armpit. That should be around 97 degrees, unless you have a fever then it will be higher. So, when you feel right on the glass under the substrate, try to make it the same heat if not a little less than your armpit. So that, the top of your substrate should be a tad cooler than your armpit - around 92 degrees.

Now, I'm going to assume you have a thermostat for your house/room AC. Set that thermostat to 78. It would be better if your tank is not on the floor (I can't remember if you mentioned this) then your ambient temps in your snake's enclosure should be ok.

Hope this helps.