New BP soon, did I clean enough to keep this one alive?

So I have thoroughly cleaned the tank, bark, rock, plastic tree, and half log. I plan on getting another bp next week. so if there were any bacteria its gone, and if there were mites they should die with about 10 days without a host, not even taking into consideration that i baked the bark and log and boiled the rock and plastic tree. I do also plan to use smaller mice (I think the size of the mouse I gave him may have been a factor to his death). Given all this should I expect my new snake to die from possibly bacteria, mite or size of mouse???
I cant come up with any other reason that he could have died. FYI my husbandry was just about perfect, temps, humidity, water, hides ect.

I don't think anyone here can give you an accurate answer to your question unless you know what exactly caused the death of your other animal. Did you get a necropsy done? Because the amount of factors that could have gone into what happened to your animal is almost limitless. Without knowing specifics, I certainly can't give you a valid answer.

I would do what people normally do; clean everything with a diluted bleach solution (10% or so should work). Throw out anything porous, and get a can of prevent-a-mite, I absolutely would not assume that the mites will die in 10 days without a host. The adults might, but the eggs they laid will hatch in 30 days if you didn't already kill them yet.

I'm always amazed at the trouble people go through to make simple things complicated...good luck with the new one...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sho220

I'm always amazed at the trouble people go through to make simple things complicated...good luck with the new one...

---

The only reason its complicated is because I dont live in West Africa which they are native to. Im pretty sure you dont either, so yes it is more complicated to have a snake indigenous to West Africa as compared to a dog or cat for everyone who owns a BP or red tail or whatever

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sicilian1928

The only reason its complicated is because I dont live in West Africa which they are native to. Im pretty sure you dont either, so yes it is more complicated to have a snake indigenous to West Africa as compared to a dog or cat for everyone who owns a BP or red tail or whatever

---

No...you're just making it complicated with all the extra crap you have in the enclosure...but to each his own....good luck trying to keep it all clean...

where did you buy him from? also do you know if he was captive bred or wild caught? I doubt mouse size killed your snake, you'd be amazed at the size of prey they can take down. The hatchlings I have even at 49 grams could take down a full grown mouse with no issue. Did you see mites on your snake? When it comes to cleaning I would use diluted bleach, go to paper towels and keep the tank very basic until you are done with your quarantine of the animal. I would have a water bowl and two hides, one on each side of your tank. Have a hot spot of about 92 and air temp around 83-85, I also keep my humidity around 60%. Hope this helps some, just be careful who and where you are buying from. A lot of petstores animals have mites.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Paradox81

where did you buy him from? also do you know if he was captive bred or wild caught? I doubt mouse size killed your snake, you'd be amazed at the size of prey they can take down. The hatchlings I have even at 49 grams could take down a full grown mouse with no issue. Did you see mites on your snake? When it comes to cleaning I would use diluted bleach, go to paper towels and keep the tank very basic until you are done with your quarantine of the animal. I would have a water bowl and two hides, one on each side of your tank. Have a hot spot of about 92 and air temp around 83-85, I also keep my humidity around 60%. Hope this helps some, just be careful who and where you are buying from. A lot of petstores animals have mites.

---

I got it from a family friend and all of his snakes are perfectly healthy. It had no mites, everything you mentioned about the conditions in the cage were what I had ie temps, humidity, hides ect. I guess the snake just wasnt meant to live because I see no flaws and no one that i have talked to sees any either

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sho220

No...you're just making it complicated with all the extra crap you have in the enclosure...but to each his own....good luck trying to keep it all clean...

---

The "crap" i have in my enclosure is 3 hides, and a water bowl......not sure how that is sooo much stuff to keep clean, pretty simple actually. And I have bark also if you consider that crap
The problem is my snake just died and I dont know why. So I am just running the cleaning process by who ever reads it to see if i havent forgotten anything.

What are the details.... How much did the snake weigh? How old was it? How Big was the Mouse that you fed it?

bark, rock, plastic tree, and half log can be tossed out. one hide (with only one entrance), water bowl and newspaper or paper towel substrate and ur golden. the other crap isnt necessary, just holds bacteria and looks "pretty"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sicilian1928

bark, rock, plastic tree, and half log. I plan on getting another bp next week. so if there were any bacteria its gone

---

That's the crap I was referring to...and the bacteria won't be gone for long. Bark just harbors bad stuff...the rock is unnecessary, the tree is unnecessary, the half log, in addition to harboring yet more bad stuff, will probably be outgrown soon...Why fight it? You'll eventually get tired of fooling with all that stuff and struggling to keep humidity up and go to tubs or a rack setup...especially when you look in the tank and don't see anything but tank "decorations"...balls will usually be in their hides....just a matter of time. I guarantee most folks here went through the same thing...me included...it sucked...I got tired of it...moved to racks and have never looked back...good luck either way. I sincerely hope it works out better next time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sho220

That's the crap I was referring to...and the bacteria won't be gone for long. Bark just harbors bad stuff...the rock is unnecessary, the tree is unnecessary, the half log, in addition to harboring yet more bad stuff, will probably be outgrown soon...Why fight it? You'll eventually get tired of fooling with all that stuff and struggling to keep humidity up and go to tubs or a rack setup...especially when you look in the tank and don't see anything but tank "decorations"...balls will usually be in their hides....just a matter of time. I guarantee most folks here went through the same thing...me included...it sucked...I got tired of it...moved to racks and have never looked back...good luck either way. I sincerely hope it works out better next time.

---

I agree. It looks pretty to us, but is completely unecessary for the snake. Paper towels/news paper as a substrate, a hide box, and a water bowl are the only things they need.

clean the tank with ammonia after you've cleaned with bleach. Apparently cryptosporidium (sp?) can survive bleach. DO NOT LET ANY AMMONIA COME INTO CONTACT WITH YOUR BLEACH, and store them in separate areas when you're done. Ammonia + bleach == very, very bad. For you, for everbody.

I recommend throwing out all wood and/or porous furniture if you really don't know what killed your previous animal and are still worried about it. It's impossible to completely decontaminate wood--there're too many microscopic hiding places.

I actually never had humidity issues. it was always at 60%. I am just questioning now about all this because if all this was true and bark was soooo incredibly dangerous, how do zoo's keep their snakes alive? I am pretty sure they live in very well maintained, highly complicated tanks. They often have bark if not sand. Obviously they know much more about snakes than me and us, but if bark was so incredibly bad how do they keep their snakes healthy and happy?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sicilian1928

I actually never had humidity issues. it was always at 60%. I am just questioning now about all this because if all this was true and bark was soooo incredibly dangerous, how do zoo's keep their snakes alive? I am pretty sure they live in very well maintained, highly complicated tanks. They often have bark if not sand. Obviously they know much more about snakes than me and us, but if bark was so incredibly bad how do they keep their snakes healthy and happy?

---

Most zoos, #1, don't have animals die randomly for no apparent reason without getting a complete necropsy done. #2, most of that stuff in the enclosure is FAKE.

Make sure you wash the actual walls of your tank... all four sides... and the floor of the glass (assuming its a glass viv) if its a bin just wash out the bin and clean all its inner sides :D
other than that... what you have done seems great! and I know you will do perfect with your new baby, just because you are so cautious now because of what happened with your recently passed :(
Keep it cool! and goodluck!

Why would you ask for advice and then argue with everyone? Bark isn't dangerous; however, since your last snake died maybe you should scrap it just in case. Since you can't be sure what the snake died of why take any chances? I think you've gotten some good advice, sterilize the tank as best you can and use new items in the cage regardless of how simple or fancy you want to get with the enclosure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Trey Yeoman

Make sure you wash the actual walls of your tank... all four sides... and the floor of the glass (assuming its a glass viv) if its a bin just wash out the bin and clean all its inner sides :D
other than that... what you have done seems great! and I know you will do perfect with your new baby, just because you are so cautious now because of what happened with your recently passed :(
Keep it cool! and goodluck!

---

Thanks I appreciate it, especially after hearing all these people that say I am doing so many unnecessary/wrong things like having bark and a half log when most people that own snakes have those things. Not only that Repti-bark seems pretty credible to me, along with soaking it in diluted bleach then baking it for 2 hours at 350 degrees. I cant see how anything could live through that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dave Green

Why would you ask for advice and then argue with everyone? Bark isn't dangerous; however, since your last snake died maybe you should scrap it just in case. Since you can't be sure what the snake died of why take any chances? I think you've gotten some good advice, sterilize the tank as best you can and use new items in the cage regardless of how simple or fancy you want to get with the enclosure.

---

Its conversing, not arguing. I am putting things out there to be thought about that have been told to me. Just about every person I have talked to, which include long time snake owners, pet store owners and a reptile house owner have said I have done an excellent job with the husbandry and cleaning. I do want many ideas on the matter but when I have been told by an overwhelming majority of people that I my cage was just about perfect its funny to hear people telling me that bark is a bad idea to have and a half log is unnecessary. sure its easy to use paper towels, but I wont take the easy avenue with this snake. I want it to be happy not just survive in a bin with no room or anything to do.

Hi,

I'm going to possibly sound a little mean when I say this but I promise you that is not the place I'm coming from I just can't think of a better way of expressing myself.

Most people haven't had a snake die of unknown causes in their setup.

Now you seem pretty certain your friends snakes are healthy and that yours was healthy when you got it. For the record I am not so certain given the early regurge.

But.

The upshot of this is you need to take a few precautions when you get a new snake that other people don't really need to.

Keep the enclosure as simple and clinical as you can until your new guy has settled in and seems to be doing all right.

This means paper towels or newspaper as a substrate - something that is easy to clean and gets completely changed when the animal poops or pees. They also let you inspect said poop and easily bag it if you want to have it checked at a vets.

Papertowels also make it easier to spot mites etc.

Half log hides are never ideal but, since they were used by a snake with an unknown sickness I would hold off on using it again - a simple easier to clean hide would be a couple of those plastic drip tray saucers that go under plant pots. They are cheap as chips, easy to cut a door in, and very easily to sterilize if needed. BP's also tend to love them.

Now these aren't permanent restrictions - they are just sensible precautions until you know things are working out ok with the new guy.

Once that has been established you can think about moving more towards the type of setup you want long term.

One silly question I can't remember the answer to - what kind of bark is it and where did you get it?

It's almost certainly fine but I thought I'd ask. :oops:


dr del

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

I'm going to possibly sound a little mean when I say this but I promise you that is not the place I'm coming from I just can't think of a better way of expressing myself.

Most people haven't had a snake die of unknown causes in their setup.

Now you seem pretty certain your friends snakes are healthy and that yours was healthy when you got it. For the record I am not so certain given the early regurge.

But.

The upshot of this is you need to take a few precautions when you get a new snake that other people don't really need to.

Keep the enclosure as simple and clinical as you can until your new guy has settled in and seems to be doing all right.

This means paper towels or newspaper as a substrate - something that is easy to clean and gets completely changed when the animal poops or pees. They also let you inspect said poop and easily bag it if you want to have it checked at a vets.

Papertowels also make it easier to spot mites etc.

Half log hides are never ideal but, since they were used by a snake with an unknown sickness I would hold off on using it again - a simple easier to clean hide would be a couple of those plastic drip tray saucers that go under plant pots. They are cheap as chips, easy to cut a door in, and very easily to sterilize if needed. BP's also tend to love them.

Now these aren't permanent restrictions - they are just sensible precautions until you know things are working out ok with the new guy.

Once that has been established you can think about moving more towards the type of setup you want long term.

One silly question I can't remember the answer to - what kind of bark is it and where did you get it?

It's almost certainly fine but I thought I'd ask. :oops:


dr del

---

I really agree with all of what Del has said here.. and that is a good question about the bark and the source of the bark Del.. I never would have thought of that.

Did you ever get a necropsy done on the deceased snake?

Dr. Del does raise a good point, the kind of bark is important and also where you got it from.

From what I recall, non-kiln baked softwoods are toxic to reptiles. Some wood products could also be chemically treated..

Quarantine habitats should be simple for reasons Dr. Del already stated. Please try not to get defensive, most people are just trying to help and may not be as eloquent as others. ;)

Best of luck with your new snake! I'm sorry you had a rough start to the hobby with your last one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coldblooded

Did you ever get a necropsy done on the deceased snake?

Dr. Del does raise a good point, the kind of bark is important and also where you got it from.

From what I recall, non-kiln baked softwoods are toxic to reptiles. Some wood products could also be chemically treated..

Quarantine habitats should be simple for reasons Dr. Del already stated. Please try not to get defensive, most people are just trying to help and may not be as eloquent as others. ;)

Best of luck with your new snake! I'm sorry you had a rough start to the hobby with your last one.

---

[/I]
I apologize if I have seemed to get defensive. I am just really trying to get the good information, but have gone about it in the wrong way. I us Repti Bark which is Fir bark.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

I'm going to possibly sound a little mean when I say this but I promise you that is not the place I'm coming from I just can't think of a better way of expressing myself.

Most people haven't had a snake die of unknown causes in their setup.

Now you seem pretty certain your friends snakes are healthy and that yours was healthy when you got it. For the record I am not so certain given the early regurge.

But.

The upshot of this is you need to take a few precautions when you get a new snake that other people don't really need to.

Keep the enclosure as simple and clinical as you can until your new guy has settled in and seems to be doing all right.

This means paper towels or newspaper as a substrate - something that is easy to clean and gets completely changed when the animal poops or pees. They also let you inspect said poop and easily bag it if you want to have it checked at a vets.

Papertowels also make it easier to spot mites etc.

Half log hides are never ideal but, since they were used by a snake with an unknown sickness I would hold off on using it again - a simple easier to clean hide would be a couple of those plastic drip tray saucers that go under plant pots. They are cheap as chips, easy to cut a door in, and very easily to sterilize if needed. BP's also tend to love them.

Now these aren't permanent restrictions - they are just sensible precautions until you know things are working out ok with the new guy.

Once that has been established you can think about moving more towards the type of setup you want long term.

One silly question I can't remember the answer to - what kind of bark is it and where did you get it?

It's almost certainly fine but I thought I'd ask. :oops:


dr del

---

Oh no you havent come off wrong. Well said actually, but I use Repti-Bark which is Fir bark. I got it from Petco. So do you think I should just throw all of the bark away that I treated with diluted bleach water, and then baked for over 2 1/2 hours in the oven at 350 degrees? My family friend that gave it to me said that it may have been his fault in that he didnt realize that his girl bp had eggs. He noticed she was in he hide an awful lot and opened it up and saw the eggs. He said that eggs are supposed to be kept at a higher temp than he had the snakes in (88 degrees) for best results in the clutch. Could this have been a factor? Also if the mouse I gave him was treated chemically for mites/lice or if it was just carrying a disease- how long would it take to kill the snake? because it died within i would say 12 hours of feeding it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sicilian1928

Oh no you havent come off wrong. Well said actually, but I use Repti-Bark which is Fir bark. I got it from Petco. So do you think I should just throw all of the bark away that I treated with diluted bleach water, and then baked for over 2 1/2 hours in the oven at 350 degrees? My family friend that gave it to me said that it may have been his fault in that he didnt realize that his girl bp had eggs. He noticed she was in he hide an awful lot and opened it up and saw the eggs. He said that eggs are supposed to be kept at a higher temp than he had the snakes in (88 degrees) for best results in the clutch. Could this have been a factor? Also if the mouse I gave him was treated chemically for mites/lice or if it was just carrying a disease- how long would it take to kill the snake? because it died within i would say 12 hours of feeding it.

---

Wait, is this bark you're talking about the bedding??
You don't save bedding.. you toss it and replace after a month or so and certainly don't use it for new animals. For a new animal you should be using paper towels or newspaper instead.

Your friend does not seem to know very much about these animals. For one, the snake was in the enclosure with another snake and breeding without him knowing about it. To hatch the clutch you need an incubator with a specific temperature and high humidity - usually one that's hooked up to a thermostat.

Also, I work at a zoo and we hardly any porous material (besides aspen bedding that is constantly being switched out) and everything in the enclosure that is decorative is plastic/cleanable except for a few kiln dried climbing branches for certain species.

Since you have a glass tank, get two hides like this or similar:
http://www.reptilebasics.com/hide-boxes/
Small water bowl and no decorations. Pitch the log hide, they are terrible for ball pythons anyway.

Mice are generally not chemically treated and usually don't get mites/lice.. I do not think that the animal died from what it ate. Unless you purchased it from a petsmart or a petstore that specifically labels their small animals as being vaccinated and should not be used as feeders.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sicilian1928

I want it to be happy not just survive in a bin with no room or anything to do.

---

The snake won't care one way or the other...it doesn't need room to run and play...all it cares about is eating, pooping, making babies and surviving...look up anthropomorphism...:gj:

Again...we've all been there...I thought for sure my first snake loved me... :)

Please, please, please throw away that bedding!

You can't possibly get the bleach back out of it and even in small amounts that alone will kill any new snake. Bedding isn't that expensive for goodness snake.

I agree for someone you seem to be relying on for your information, your friend doesn't appear to know jack about these snakes. For pities sake how could he NOT know she was going to have eggs ? That just sounds WRONG to me. Like he isn't the least bit interested in proper husbandry or breeding or anything else. I'd stop listening to this "friend" if it were me, he doesn't know nearly as much as he's like you to think he does. It takes almost 60 days for eggs to hatch, and in all that time he was too lazy to lift a hide and check on the snake??!! And by the way, just because he can keep his snakes alive for a while doesn't mean he is taking good care of them. It means he's killing them slowly, and you don't need to make his mistakes.

If you are serious about getting another snake, and serious about keeping it healthy and happy, then you do whatever it takes. Stop worrying about saving the bedding, buy more for crying out loud. Anything in the snake enclosure that can be sterilized should be, anything that can't be needs thrown away. To START with, keep the enclosure as sparse as possible to eliminate the possibility of a recurrence of the unexplained death. Once the new snakes is eating, pooing and shedding normally, THEN worry about fancying up the enclosure. All a new snake needs to start out with is two identical hides for warm and cool sides, a clean water dish, some paper towels or newspaper that is easily removed as it becomes soiled, steady and correct temperatures and humidity. The rest is just for you, not the baby.

Buy your new snake from a reliable source, not a supposed friend who tells you he knows what he's doing and is too dumb to know when his snake has eggs. Find out when the baby hatched, when it had it's first meal, when it had it's first shed, when it pooed for the first time. Ask what it eats and when. Ask for a record of feedings and weights. ALL good breeders will have this information, did your "friend" ?

Once you get your new baby home, move it into it's carefully spartan home and wait a week before handling or trying to feed. Once it's eaten three of four times, pooed at least once and possibly even shed, then you can go about beautifying the enclosure to make yourself happy.

Gale

WOOOOOOOWWWWW!!!!

What is going on here? Sounds like everyone on this thread is trying to make this guys head explode with how complicated your making this sound...

You say he's being complicated, but to me it sounds like a lot of you have snake OCD...Not everyone does it the same....and there are more then one way to take care of a snake. Just because we don't all do it the same doesn't mean one person is right...

I also didn't realize decorating a tank for a snake causes stress lmao! Gimme a break guys I've had both tubs, and tanks and it DOES NOT CAUSE STRESS. As long as you accommodate to their main needs, theres nothing wrong with it. It does mean however you have to clean everything in the tank regularly. As long as you keep up with it theres no problem. That was a funny one really...:D

I wouldn't worry too much on how the snake died...W.o necropsy you'll never know, and you'll tear your hair out trying to. So drop it, and move on. Sorry for your loss, but it sounds like a fluke...Just make sure you do it right this time and take no risk. And putting 3 hides and a water dish is not risking anything at all. So your fine there.

Using reptile bark is probably not the best to use, but it totally is fine as long as you replace it regularly. I personally use paper towels, and they work great. To me paper towel are the way to go. Easy to spot clean, and cheap to boot. Just make sure to clean regularly...I would recommend not feeding on it though just to be safe.

Cleaning really isn't a big deal, and you don't have to go that crazy. I clean once a week, and I use a 10% bleach solution. Not once have I had any issues with this. I'm sure someone is going to chime in and say "YOU SHOULDN'T DO THAT BECAUSE I DON'T, AND I KNOW EVERYTHING!!" This is a very opinionated site...get used it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sho220

No...you're just making it complicated with all the extra crap you have in the enclosure...but to each his own....good luck trying to keep it all clean...

---

Wow, really? I didn't realize cleaning accessories in a tank is that complicated...Sounds like you guys are either LAZY, or just plain crazy...BP.net never seizes to amaze me. How come I never run into problems like this? JUST CLEAN REGULARLY...NOT HARD...sheesh.

Thread killer huh? This sound quite accurate...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sicilian1928

Its conversing, not arguing. I am putting things out there to be thought about that have been told to me. Just about every person I have talked to, which include long time snake owners, pet store owners and a reptile house owner have said I have done an excellent job with the husbandry and cleaning. I do want many ideas on the matter but when I have been told by an overwhelming majority of people that I my cage was just about perfect its funny to hear people telling me that bark is a bad idea to have and a half log is unnecessary. sure its easy to use paper towels, but I wont take the easy avenue with this snake. I want it to be happy not just survive in a bin with no room or anything to do.

---

lol

Listen...Snake racks are probably the best way to keep snakes. Tubs w/ paper towels are one of the easiest most effective ways of keeping them. When I made the switch it resulted in great feeding response, and less skiddish personalities.

If you think a snake is going to acknowledge all the little accessories in your tank, and be a better animal your mistaking. Snakes are secretive, and prefer smaller enclosures. Having a nice pretty looking enclosure doesn't make a snake feel more at home lol. Their not exactly that bright. These snakes in their natural habitat are mostly found in rodent burrows which are small tight, and humid. Snakes are prey for a lot of animals and are programmed by nature to be super careful and secretive. If you think my snakes are unhappy because they are in tubs and don't have the "room" yours have you couldn't be more wrong. I handle all my animals quite often and they get their exercise, and don't just sit in their tubs all day. They don't have the "dora the explorer" attitude you think they have lol.

But I wish you the best of luck regardless of what care techniques you use. Just make sure to keep an eye on the temps/humidity, and clean regularly and thoroughly. As long as you follow those main instructions you will be fine. To me, it sounds like you have a good idea on what needs to be done to care for BP's. Just don't go too crazy with accessories and keep it somewhat simple.

He has perfect temps, perfect humidity, perfect setup, perfectly cleaned tank, an "expert" friend, and the temps were "cranked up" to 88*f ;).

Everything is perfect! You're all silly for trying to help someone who knows everything is perfect. Everyone here has been trying to achieve this for years, he has accomplished it much sooner! Why bother wasting your time?

Now if you're serious about asking for help, listen closely.

Hot spot - 90*F
Ambient temps (temps everywhere the hot spot is not) - 80*F
Substrate (the stuff on the floor of the tank) - newspaper, paper towel
Water bowl - big, clean, filled with water (important)
Hide - 2 hides identical.
Tank - black out 3 sides if you want to see your snake. He will feel more comfortable and come out more.
Humidity - 60% raise it if he sheds. Simple misting.
CLEAN the old tank. If a snake died in there that was perfectly healthy before it came to you, odds are it's something there. Toss out everything but the glass. Especially that old substrate.
Uth (under tank heater) - get one.
Thermostat - controls the uth. Makes sure the heater stays at a steady temperature.

Now that the set up is all done and has had a few days to get going. (temps are steady, humidity is good) you're ready to get your snake!

When you get it, pop it in the enclosure. Leave it alone for a week. Feed it a prey item about the same width as the snake. If it eats you can start handling a few minutes every day. If it doesn't, come back here and we'll trouble shoot with you.

^^^^

Good simple advice, gotta love it...Now why couldn't you post earlier lol?

Wow drama, drama, drama. Follow the advice Dr. Del, Jeremy and Animals as leaders have given it’s all very sound advice. Most people here are very minimalistic with their setups, mostly because they are breeders and have several snakes. I however understand the desire to have a very pretty cage especially for 1 snake. I will explain what the zoo’s do to keep a clean natural looking environment.

1.All naturalistic bedding is first kiln dried and heated to a degree so that nothing could possibly survive in the substrate. You can achieve this at home by baking the substrate in the oven at 250 degrees for 60 minutes, allow it to thoroughly cool before placing in the tank.

2.Most of the logs, tree trunks, vines etc that you see in the zoo are made out of fiber glass and can be soaked and disinfected during clean downs, even the rocks are artificial.

3.I do agree what everyone has said about log hides, I make my own for my kings and corns out of fiber glass it’s actually pretty easy however you really have to let it air out for quite some time before putting it in the tank. Baked clay also works pretty well, but you can’t soak it.

As to your last snake dying, I am very sorry. If your snake did have a regurge it most likely had parasites and untreated they will kill your snake and sometimes before it even looks bad, that is one of the down sides of live pray, and is the reason I deworm all of my snakes every 6 months. Honestly though you will never know the cause because a necropsy wasn’t done. The best you can do is thoroughly clean the habitat and disinfect everything, throw out all off the porous stuff and start over.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeremy78

He has perfect temps, perfect humidity, perfect setup, perfectly cleaned tank, an "expert" friend, and the temps were "cranked up" to 88*f ;).

Everything is perfect! You're all silly for trying to help someone who knows everything is perfect. Everyone here has been trying to achieve this for years, he has accomplished it much sooner! Why bother wasting your time?

Now if you're serious about asking for help, listen closely.

Hot spot - 90*F
Ambient temps (temps everywhere the hot spot is not) - 80*F
Substrate (the stuff on the floor of the tank) - newspaper, paper towel
Water bowl - big, clean, filled with water (important)
Hide - 2 hides identical.
Tank - black out 3 sides if you want to see your snake. He will feel more comfortable and come out more.
Humidity - 60% raise it if he sheds. Simple misting.
CLEAN the old tank. If a snake died in there that was perfectly healthy before it came to you, odds are it's something there. Toss out everything but the glass. Especially that old substrate.
Uth (under tank heater) - get one.
Thermostat - controls the uth. Makes sure the heater stays at a steady temperature.

Now that the set up is all done and has had a few days to get going. (temps are steady, humidity is good) you're ready to get your snake!

When you get it, pop it in the enclosure. Leave it alone for a week. Feed it a prey item about the same width as the snake. If it eats you can start handling a few minutes every day. If it doesn't, come back here and we'll trouble shoot with you.

---

Eloquently said. I will do this, I greatly appreciate your help.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Animals As Leaders

WOOOOOOOWWWWW!!!!

What is going on here? Sounds like everyone on this thread is trying to make this guys head explode with how complicated your making this sound...

You say he's being complicated, but to me it sounds like a lot of you have snake OCD...Not everyone does it the same....and there are more then one way to take care of a snake. Just because we don't all do it the same doesn't mean one person is right...

I also didn't realize decorating a tank for a snake causes stress lmao! Gimme a break guys I've had both tubs, and tanks and it DOES NOT CAUSE STRESS. As long as you accommodate to their main needs, theres nothing wrong with it. It does mean however you have to clean everything in the tank regularly. As long as you keep up with it theres no problem. That was a funny one really...:D

I wouldn't worry too much on how the snake died...W.o necropsy you'll never know, and you'll tear your hair out trying to. So drop it, and move on. Sorry for your loss, but it sounds like a fluke...Just make sure you do it right this time and take no risk. And putting 3 hides and a water dish is not risking anything at all. So your fine there.

Using reptile bark is probably not the best to use, but it totally is fine as long as you replace it regularly. I personally use paper towels, and they work great. To me paper towel are the way to go. Easy to spot clean, and cheap to boot. Just make sure to clean regularly...I would recommend not feeding on it though just to be safe.

Cleaning really isn't a big deal, and you don't have to go that crazy. I clean once a week, and I use a 10% bleach solution. Not once have I had any issues with this. I'm sure someone is going to chime in and say "YOU SHOULDN'T DO THAT BECAUSE I DON'T, AND I KNOW EVERYTHING!!" This is a very opinionated site...get used it.

---

Thanks man, really helpful. Instead of insulting me about my tank you actually gave me good advice. You clearly know what your doing and same with the other guy that you commented on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Animals As Leaders

lol

Listen...Snake racks are probably the best way to keep snakes. Tubs w/ paper towels are one of the easiest most effective ways of keeping them. When I made the switch it resulted in great feeding response, and less skiddish personalities.

If you think a snake is going to acknowledge all the little accessories in your tank, and be a better animal your mistaking. Snakes are secretive, and prefer smaller enclosures. Having a nice pretty looking enclosure doesn't make a snake feel more at home lol. Their not exactly that bright. These snakes in their natural habitat are mostly found in rodent burrows which are small tight, and humid. Snakes are prey for a lot of animals and are programmed by nature to be super careful and secretive. If you think my snakes are unhappy because they are in tubs and don't have the "room" yours have you couldn't be more wrong. I handle all my animals quite often and they get their exercise, and don't just sit in their tubs all day. They don't have the "dora the explorer" attitude you think they have lol.

But I wish you the best of luck regardless of what care techniques you use. Just make sure to keep an eye on the temps/humidity, and clean regularly and thoroughly. As long as you follow those main instructions you will be fine. To me, it sounds like you have a good idea on what needs to be done to care for BP's. Just don't go too crazy with accessories and keep it somewhat simple.

---

Lol touche. I guess the cage's look was more important to me than them. the snake's health is the most important thing so i am going to just do exactly what is being told to me by you and the other guy. thanks man

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ed4281

Wow drama, drama, drama. Follow the advice Dr. Del, Jeremy and Animals as leaders have given it’s all very sound advice. Most people here are very minimalistic with their setups, mostly because they are breeders and have several snakes. I however understand the desire to have a very pretty cage especially for 1 snake. I will explain what the zoo’s do to keep a clean natural looking environment.

1.All naturalistic bedding is first kiln dried and heated to a degree so that nothing could possibly survive in the substrate. You can achieve this at home by baking the substrate in the oven at 250 degrees for 60 minutes, allow it to thoroughly cool before placing in the tank.

2.Most of the logs, tree trunks, vines etc that you see in the zoo are made out of fiber glass and can be soaked and disinfected during clean downs, even the rocks are artificial.

3.I do agree what everyone has said about log hides, I make my own for my kings and corns out of fiber glass it’s actually pretty easy however you really have to let it air out for quite some time before putting it in the tank. Baked clay also works pretty well, but you can’t soak it.

As to your last snake dying, I am very sorry. If your snake did have a regurge it most likely had parasites and untreated they will kill your snake and sometimes before it even looks bad, that is one of the down sides of live pray, and is the reason I deworm all of my snakes every 6 months. Honestly though you will never know the cause because a necropsy wasn’t done. The best you can do is thoroughly clean the habitat and disinfect everything, throw out all off the porous stuff and start over.

---

You jeremy, Dr del, and Animals have been easily the best advice on here. thanks a lot.

Hi,

I'm glad you were able to weed through all this and gain some valuable insight.
I just want to say, wish you best of luck with your new BP, don't loose heart :)
They are wonderful animals and you obviously care very much.

Make sure you post pictures of your new baby !

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zina10

Hi,

I'm glad you were able to weed through all this and gain some valuable insight.
I just want to say, wish you best of luck with your new BP, don't loose heart :)
They are wonderful animals and you obviously care very much.

Make sure you post pictures of your new baby !

---

Much appreciated, i truly do care! I will post them asap, i am getting "it" on sunday =) so excited! Steelers vs Jets in the AFC championship game and a new BP, how can you have a better day?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sicilian1928

Steelers vs Jets in the AFC championship game and a new BP, how can you have a better day?

---

That's easy to answer.

Ravens vs Pats in the AFC Championship game, and two new BPs.

Hahaha

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sicilian1928

Lol touche. I guess the cage's look was more important to me than them. the snake's health is the most important thing so i am going to just do exactly what is being told to me by you and the other guy. thanks man

---

This wasn't to deter your tank setup lol!

I just ended up starting a collection, and cleaning tanks all the time got old quick. Tanks are nice if you only have one snake, and to me are a lot more aesthetically pleasing then having ONE sterilite tub sitting in your room lol. But when you get a bunch you'll see that tanks just don't cut it. Just make sure to keep the screen 3/4 covered with plexi-glass, or something else to keep the humidity in. The big thing with tanks is keep the humidity in the tank, which could be challenging but not hard as long you know how. Either way, good luck with your new snake!! :gj:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sicilian1928

Oh no you havent come off wrong. Well said actually, but I use Repti-Bark which is Fir bark. I got it from Petco. So do you think I should just throw all of the bark away that I treated with diluted bleach water, and then baked for over 2 1/2 hours in the oven at 350 degrees? My family friend that gave it to me said that it may have been his fault in that he didnt realize that his girl bp had eggs. He noticed she was in he hide an awful lot and opened it up and saw the eggs. He said that eggs are supposed to be kept at a higher temp than he had the snakes in (88 degrees) for best results in the clutch. Could this have been a factor? Also if the mouse I gave him was treated chemically for mites/lice or if it was just carrying a disease- how long would it take to kill the snake? because it died within i would say 12 hours of feeding it.

---

Did you say you baked the bark with bleach in it? DO NOT put diluted bleach in the substrate. I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this, they probably have but cooking the substrate is enough, (At 200 degrees for two hours) diluted bleach is probably the thing that harmed the snake because you poured it in it's bedding, correct? When you use diluted bleach you NEED to rinse it off well. Please, please be careful with your next snake, don't be afraid to ask anyone on this forum for help if you're wondering anything. Perhaps you feel as though you've been treated wrongly since you seem defensive but they're really just trying to help. Also, I would suggest that you wait a a few months AT LEAST to get another snake after this incident. Don't rush, a snake is a lifetime partner who should last you around 30 years. It's like getting married, you should seriously see it as a big deal.

Please don't clean the substrate. Just replace it. It's cheap enough that there is no reason to clean it, bleach it, bake it, etc. Good luck with your new snake and go STEELERS! :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Miko

Did you say you baked the bark with bleach in it? DO NOT put diluted bleach in the substrate. I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this, they probably have but cooking the substrate is enough, (At 200 degrees for two hours) diluted bleach is probably the thing that harmed the snake because you poured it in it's bedding, correct? When you use diluted bleach you NEED to rinse it off well. Please, please be careful with your next snake, don't be afraid to ask anyone on this forum for help if you're wondering anything. Perhaps you feel as though you've been treated wrongly since you seem defensive but they're really just trying to help. Also, I would suggest that you wait a a few months AT LEAST to get another snake after this incident. Don't rush, a snake is a lifetime partner who should last you around 30 years. It's like getting married, you should seriously see it as a big deal.

---

I actually did many hours of research and mulling over before I decided to get a snake. I feel that it is a great responsibility. trust me i was stressin about it for a while before finally deciding.
I used the little bit of bleach to clean the bark AFTER the snake had already died. I didnt use it prior. Then i baked the bark for over 2 hours at 350 degrees.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Animals As Leaders

Wow, really? I didn't realize cleaning accessories in a tank is that complicated.

---

Well just look at all the different opinions and advice in this one thread...use bark, don't use bark, bake it, soak it in bleach, don't use bleach, use ammonia after bleach, use only 20% bleach, use only 10% bleach, sprinkle pixie dust on it...good grief...what a PITA!!!

And you contradicted yourself (as well as proving my point) with this statement...

"Listen...Snake racks are probably the best way to keep snakes. Tubs w/ paper towels are one of the easiest most effective ways of keeping them. When I made the switch it resulted in great feeding response, and less skiddish personalities." So they feed better and are less stressed??? Hmmm...

We are all essentially being selfish by keeping these animals...we enjoy it and are fascinated by it...the snakes gain nothing from it. The least we can do is give them the best and safest environment to live in. If you can pull off keeping up with a tank, that's great. But when you're having issues, and losing snakes, you might want to consider another way...

Don't reuse the bark substrate even if it has been treated it's simply to porus and think of it like useing a dead persons sheets, would you want too.......

Substrate is cheap and easy to replace the only thing I will reuse is the astro turf like carpeting you can throw it in the wash and have a few as back up when cleaning.

aye caramba this thread is getting ridiculous!

Just look at the BP caresheet, follow it, and everything will be dandy! The only additional (well, reminding) advice to that should be to replace the bedding and clean the cage extra well.

I'm sorry for your loss, and I hope all goes well with your new buddy!