Incubator vs. Natural

What are the pro's and con's of these two methods of taking care of the eggs? I had a bit of a crash course a few years ago, when I got a female snake from a friend that had tried to breed it with a male (just for the heck of it), and gave up hope... But when I had her in my possession, she laid eggs, one day... As soon as that happened, I called my friend who breeds snakes at one of the local stores, and he tried to take care of them for me... They were all duds, but one looked promising... It was just an unfertilized egg that looked real healthy.

This struck my interest, and I did my research and started breeding them myself. I had always let the female take care of her clutch. It seemed promising. Of six or seven eggs, I'd have four or five that would make it through to the hatching process.

I am breeding again. I have never used an incubator... I'm considering purchasing one. How easy are the eggs to manage within one? What are the pro's and con's between using an incubator or letting the female just go with it as nature intended?

Is it worth the money to purchase the incubator?

Thanks for all and any input, guys.

You could build an incubator for a fraction of the cost of purchasing one, as far as maternal incubation a few members here have sucessfully done it.

I am actually quite interested in how you Naturally hatch them such as substrate humidity and temp? i know the incubator temps and i even plan to build one someday...but a natural birth seems kinda cool also are they in a tub or a tank I MUST KNOW!:rage: lol ;)

Incubator = you control the entire process
Natural = mama snake controls the entire process, you're just the sidekick.

There are pros and cons to both.

i honestly think the natural way is a bit odd. I realize the fascination of the "wild animal" but think about it most balls are kept in RACKS! lol. with 0 substrate the genes and animals are the focus not the habitat. obviously this is my opinion and also why would u want to put all this effort and $ into something (clutch) and put your animals through all that stress to not reap your reward. I dunno either way :rockon: interesting thread.

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Originally Posted by Byrdie

I am actually quite interested in how you Naturally hatch them such as substrate humidity and temp? i know the incubator temps and i even plan to build one someday...but a natural birth seems kinda cool also are they in a tub or a tank I MUST KNOW!:rage: lol ;)

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Same temp is normal ball python set-up. I raised the humidity to 75-80% the entire time. I provided a lay-box - that is, a bigger hide that can hold the mother with the eggs.

My snake laid when she was in the glass tank. It is relatively more difficult to maintain stable temperature and humidity in the tank, so I moved her and the eggs to a plastic tub.

wat was ur succes rate? 100%

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Originally Posted by LOSTCOAST_BALLZ

i honestly think the natural way is a bit odd. I realize the fascination of the "wild animal" but think about it most balls are kept in RACKS! lol. with 0 substrate the genes and animals are the focus not the habitat. obviously this is my opinion and also why would u want to put all this effort and $ into something (clutch) and put your animals through all that stress to not reap your reward. I dunno either way :rockon: interesting thread.

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The racks are even easier than the tub. You don't have to provide a lay-box... the entire thing can be the lay-box (just like you don't need a hide).

Not sure what you mean by "all that stress to not reap your reward".

Being a woman, it is always interesting to me that people treat pregnancy as a medical event. It is not. It's just a normal part of the life cycle. Hence, a lot of people prefer the midwife over an OB. The OB is only there when the event becomes a medical concern (complications such as pre-eclampsia, etc.).

Anyway, a ball python is the same - laying of eggs and seeing it through hatching is not a medical event - it's just a natural part of the life cycle. Yes, it takes a lot of energy for a ball python to incubate its eggs but if you have a healthy snake to start off with, it is not a big deal. The snake will continue to eat while taking care of the eggs to replenish that energy expended.

Many of us are not in it for the $. We are in it for the joy of being an active part of nature.

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Originally Posted by anatess

I moved her and the eggs to a plastic tub.

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What about substrate just some paper towel or did you actually use something like eco earth?

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Originally Posted by LOSTCOAST_BALLZ

wat was ur succes rate? 100%

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Mine wasn't 100%. I made the mistake of making too big a cut on the eggs - it was my first clutch - it looked like Edward Scissorhands got hold of the eggs.

Quiet Tempest have 100% hatch rate on hers year after year as well as some others on this forum.

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Originally Posted by Byrdie

What about substrate just some paper towel or did you actually use something like eco earth?

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All my snakes are on aspen.

LOL 1st off. "Being a woman, it is always interesting to me that people treat pregnancy as a medical event. It is not. It's just a normal part of the life cycle. Hence, a lot of people prefer the midwife over an OB. The OB is only there when the event becomes a medical concern (complications such as pre-eclampsia, etc.). " your contradicting your self sweetheart. and second of all pregnancy is a tremendous thing to go through regardless of species, AS A MALE i guess i overly respect pregnancy? i dont really know where u were goin with that. one of my points with the racks is, if its so natural why do we keep the animal in a Box or permanent burrow with little to no light. im not here to argue about husbandry just a point. ( I USE RACKS) regardless what is your success rate I hope it was 100% but since u ignored it maybe not? anyways thank you for your valuable info about natural incubation and laying process. my main point being I wouldnt want to loss a valuable egg, especially with the odss being what they are with morph combos, and to clarify im not in it for the money either I just would not want to miss out on a beautiful egg because of a careless error. just my opinion. again thank you for your info on the humidity tub and what not.:O

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Originally Posted by LOSTCOAST_BALLZ

LOL 1st off. "Being a woman, it is always interesting to me that people treat pregnancy as a medical event. It is not. It's just a normal part of the life cycle. Hence, a lot of people prefer the midwife over an OB. The OB is only there when the event becomes a medical concern (complications such as pre-eclampsia, etc.). " your contradicting your self sweetheart. and second of all pregnancy is a tremendous thing to go through regardless of species, AS A MALE i guess i overly respect pregnancy? i dont really know where u were goin with that. one of my points with the racks is, if its so natural why do we keep the animal in a Box or permanent burrow with little to no light. im not here to argue about husbandry just a point. ( I USE RACKS) regardless what is your success rate I hope it was 100% but since u ignored it maybe not? anyways thank you for your valuable info about natural incubation and laying process. my main point being I wouldnt want to loss a valuable egg, especially with the odss being what they are with morph combos, and to clarify im not in it for the money either I just would not want to miss out on a beautiful egg because of a careless error. just my opinion. again thank you for your info on the humidity tub and what not.:O

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No sir, I am not contradicting myself. My mother is a midwife. Here... this may be a thread hijack but this is info you might wanna scan through to understand what I'm trying to say: http://www.yourchildbirthguide.com/m...or-doctor.html - read through the first few paragraphs under Different Models of Care. And I say being a woman - because being a woman, I've been through 2 pregnancies so I can speak with some semblance of authority on the matter.

Where I am going with that - pregnancy/childbirth is not a medical event. For humans or animals alike. Complications in pregnancy makes it a medical event. Therefore, having a healthy snake incubate its own eggs is not a "medical hazard".

I responded on the hatch rate in a previous post. If you missed it - I stated that mine wasn't 100% due to my error (first clutch and all) but that several forum members here on bp.net do have 100% hatch rate year after year. You can search maternal incubation and see for yourself.

Whether you incubate or you allow the snake to incubate doesn't guarantee you 100% hatch rate. But, you increase the chance of a healthy clutch by knowing what you're doing - in either case.

P.S. I didn't do maternal incubation because I want it "natural". I went the maternal incubation route because, as my first foray into breeding, I trusted the snake to care for the eggs better than I can. And, the way I feel now, I still trust the snake better than me - therefore, I will continue to do maternal incubation.

P.P.S. - puting a snake in a rack is not too much different than what the snake instinctively does in the wild - from what researchers have gathered is the natural habits of a ball python. In the wild, researchers report that bp's stay in burrows and do not roam unless thermo-regulating, looking for food, or finding a mate. We provide the same needs in a different way.

41 qt sterilite tub w/lid, cypress mulch bedding, as soon as i saw signs she was gravid i put in a smaller plastic container upside down with a small hole on the side for entry(about an inch shorter then her tub and about 3/4 of the width and a 1/3 of the length). Filled it with damp sphagnum moss and left a thin layer of the mulch at the bottom. placed the edge of the container at the edge of the hotspot (11inch flexwatt) and placed about an inch of the mulch around the container to keep it in place.

Let mama do her thing and adjust the nest as she wanted and once i seen her wrapped around the pearly whites placed the thermometer prob as best i could in the center of the clutch (which needed to be adjusted every now and then), sprayed the mulch around the outside of the container and the entrance to the container daily to keep the humidity up, kep the temps between 86-89 degrees(kind of hard with a on/off thermostat).

she was a first time mom and i had 5 beautiful babies(100% hatch rate) start cutting on day 54, placed babies in there own tub on wet papertowls, removed the container and sphagnum moss from moms tub and she was feeding a couple days later.:gj:

being a first time breeder this season I have to say I've been spending hours a day on this forum via tapatalk from my phone lol. this thread is by far one of the most interesting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. Xan Powers!

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Originally Posted by Aztec4mia

41 qt sterilite tub w/lid, cypress mulch bedding, as soon as i saw signs she was gravid i put in a smaller plastic container upside down with a small hole on the side for entry(about an inch shorter then her tub and about 3/4 of the width and a 1/3 of the length). Filled it with damp sphagnum moss and left a thin layer of the mulch at the bottom. placed the edge of the container at the edge of the hotspot (11inch flexwatt) and placed about an inch of the mulch around the container to keep it in place.

Let mama do her thing and adjust the nest as she wanted and once i seen her wrapped around the pearly whites placed the thermometer prob as best i could in the center of the clutch (which needed to be adjusted every now and then), sprayed the mulch around the outside of the container and the entrance to the container daily to keep the humidity up, kep the temps between 86-89 degrees(kind of hard with a on/off thermostat).

she was a first time mom and i had 5 beautiful babies(100% hatch rate) start cutting on day 54, placed babies in there own tub on wet papertowls, removed the container and sphagnum moss from moms tub and she was feeding a couple days later.:gj:

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Awesome Aztec! For next time, try feeding mama snake on the same schedule even when she's on the eggs. My snake ate every 10 days throughout the incubation process.

During the first 2 feed schedules, we would unwrap mama off her eggs and feed her in a separate container (this is our normal feeding process - we feed in a separate container because we offer live rats and the snakes live in a super-decorated viv that has tons of nooks and crannies that the rat can hide in and poop on, etc.). Mama snake was the "evil snake from hell" while incubating - she goes into strike mode the second you open the tub and we just got tired of having to wrap her head in a towel and all that jazz just so we can move her to a separate container. So, for the rest of the feedings, we would just drop the rat in the tub and she would uncoil half her body off the eggs, strike and eat while half her body is still around the eggs. Quite amazing to see.

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Originally Posted by Byrdie

I am actually quite interested in how you Naturally hatch them such as substrate humidity and temp? i know the incubator temps and i even plan to build one someday...but a natural birth seems kinda cool also are they in a tub or a tank I MUST KNOW!:rage: lol ;)

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Sorry for the late reply. They are in tanks, not tubs... There are a lot of responses, but it's 12.32 AM and I have to be up at 6 to get to class. First day back and work, and I'm wiped.

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Originally Posted by anatess

No sir, I am not contradicting myself. My mother is a midwife. Here... this may be a thread hijack but this is info you might wanna scan through to understand what I'm trying to say: http://www.yourchildbirthguide.com/m...or-doctor.html - read through the first few paragraphs under Different Models of Care. And I say being a woman - because being a woman, I've been through 2 pregnancies so I can speak with some semblance of authority on the matter.

Where I am going with that - pregnancy/childbirth is not a medical event. For humans or animals alike. Complications in pregnancy makes it a medical event. Therefore, having a healthy snake incubate its own eggs is not a "medical hazard".

I responded on the hatch rate in a previous post. If you missed it - I stated that mine wasn't 100% due to my error (first clutch and all) but that several forum members here on bp.net do have 100% hatch rate year after year. You can search maternal incubation and see for yourself.

Whether you incubate or you allow the snake to incubate doesn't guarantee you 100% hatch rate. But, you increase the chance of a healthy clutch by knowing what you're doing - in either case.

P.S. I didn't do maternal incubation because I want it "natural". I went the maternal incubation route because, as my first foray into breeding, I trusted the snake to care for the eggs better than I can. And, the way I feel now, I still trust the snake better than me - therefore, I will continue to do maternal incubation.

P.P.S. - puting a snake in a rack is not too much different than what the snake instinctively does in the wild - from what researchers have gathered is the natural habits of a ball python. In the wild, researchers report that bp's stay in burrows and do not roam unless thermo-regulating, looking for food, or finding a mate. We provide the same needs in a different way.

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"Being a woman, it is always interesting to me that people treat pregnancy as a medical event. It is not. It's just a normal part of the life cycle. Hence, a lot of people prefer the midwife over an OB. The OB is only there when the event becomes a medical concern (complications such as pre-eclampsia, etc.)" in my mind this is for sure conflicting, u say that midwifes are only there for medical complications? right? but u started off saying its not a medical event i mean come on lady.WHY does it interest you in why people find pregnancy a medical event because there are medical complications regularly. thats all im saying so in my mind that justifys it as a medical event LOL babys die all the time of complications LOL now i could provide links and what not from reliable sources but you should just start a thread so we can start our own convo! HAHAHAHA.

LOL well im glad you were raised in an enviroment where losing children or eggs was acceptable due to error. as a father I want my children to survive and have access to any care or equipment needed due to complications thats all. therefore my family has allways had it be a "medical event" shocking i know. LOL interesting read. and your in love with this naturalistic vibe with snakes, im sorry i maybe just a realist. I understand that by putting an animal on paper and in a tub I can create a safe enviroment for them its all about the snakes health in captivity thats all. Im not trying to jack threads i have been prone to this lately i apologize.

I am very interested in natural methods just still think error CAN possibly come into play. thats all and we have proof of this on the thread. :bolt:

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Originally Posted by anatess

Awesome Aztec! For next time, try feeding mama snake on the same schedule even when she's on the eggs. My snake ate every 10 days throughout the incubation process.

During the first 2 feed schedules, we would unwrap mama off her eggs and feed her in a separate container (this is our normal feeding process - we feed in a separate container because we offer live rats and the snakes live in a super-decorated viv that has tons of nooks and crannies that the rat can hide in and poop on, etc.). Mama snake was the "evil snake from hell" while incubating - she goes into strike mode the second you open the tub and we just got tired of having to wrap her head in a towel and all that jazz just so we can move her to a separate container. So, for the rest of the feedings, we would just drop the rat in the tub and she would uncoil half her body off the eggs, strike and eat while half her body is still around the eggs. Quite amazing to see.

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Thanks i'll have to give it a try next time, didn't take long for her to get her weight back on plus some, I think she's getting this year off unless I find a nice male to stick with her.

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Originally Posted by anatess

Mine wasn't 100%. I made the mistake of making too big a cut on the eggs - it was my first clutch - it looked like Edward Scissorhands got hold of the eggs.

Quiet Tempest have 100% hatch rate on hers year after year as well as some others on this forum.

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With that being said should u cut the eggs in the first place. I'm going to try to breed this year and i'm wondering about cutting eggs

If your a natural type of person I say why not do things the all natural way.
I would do the all natural way but Im not cool with losing eggs nor missing out on making a great looking ball python.

exactly my point.

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Originally Posted by LOSTCOAST_BALLZ

"Being a woman, it is always interesting to me that people treat pregnancy as a medical event. It is not. It's just a normal part of the life cycle. Hence, a lot of people prefer the midwife over an OB. The OB is only there when the event becomes a medical concern (complications such as pre-eclampsia, etc.)" in my mind this is for sure conflicting, u say that midwifes are only there for medical complications? right? but u started off saying its not a medical event i mean come on lady.WHY does it interest you in why people find pregnancy a medical event because there are medical complications regularly. thats all im saying so in my mind that justifys it as a medical event LOL babys die all the time of complications LOL now i could provide links and what not from reliable sources but you should just start a thread so we can start our own convo! HAHAHAHA.

LOL well im glad you were raised in an enviroment where losing children or eggs was acceptable due to error. as a father I want my children to survive and have access to any care or equipment needed due to complications thats all. therefore my family has allways had it be a "medical event" shocking i know. LOL interesting read. and your in love with this naturalistic vibe with snakes, im sorry i maybe just a realist. I understand that by putting an animal on paper and in a tub I can create a safe enviroment for them its all about the snakes health in captivity thats all. Im not trying to jack threads i have been prone to this lately i apologize.

I am very interested in natural methods just still think error CAN possibly come into play. thats all and we have proof of this on the thread. :bolt:

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You really need to READ and UNDERSTAND properly before you post. It is frustrating. And I even provided you a link so you can understand what I mean by MIDWIVES assisting pregnancies and OBSTETRICIANS managing medical events. MIDWIVES assists pregnancies and deliveries - they are not doctors - because pregnancy/delivery is not a medical event. Now... if there are complications such as pre-eclampsia, etc., then a midwife sends the case to AN OBSTETRICIAN (a doctor) as a medical incident. GET IT NOW?

And it is insulting when you say things like "it is okay to lose a snake or a child to error". IT IS NOT OKAY. But, like EVERYTHING ELSE IN LIFE, nobody is perfect. Do you know how many babies die due to medical error? A LOT. IN THE HOSPITAL EVEN. My kids' babysitter has a son with celebral palsy due to medical error! IT IS NOT OK. We do the best we can.

Do you know how many ball pythons die in the egg in an incubator??? A LOT. Just because you put it in an incubator doesn't mean it is insulated from error. Now, if you were just being stupid, then it's bad. If you did your best, there's nothing else you can ask for.

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Originally Posted by KingPythons

If your a natural type of person I say why not do things the all natural way.
I would do the all natural way but Im not cool with losing eggs nor missing out on making a great looking ball python.

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And that's the misconception. Just because you stick the egg in the incubator doesn't guarantee you a 100% hatch rate.

Both methods are valid with the same amount of risk to the eggs. The trick is to know what you are doing.

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Originally Posted by BEasy119

With that being said should u cut the eggs in the first place. I'm going to try to breed this year and i'm wondering about cutting eggs

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There are pros and cons to cutting eggs. The purpose of cutting the eggs is to prevent the case of a ball python not being able to get out on its own (egg tooth not strong enough, etc.). But, cutting eggs introduce the risk of bacteria, etc. etc.

A lot of people cut eggs simply for the purpose of knowing if they got a morph.

I cut the eggs because it was day 69 and I started to worry.

Most people here will advice to wait until the first snake pips then cut the rest.

I've been busy with family and haven't been on the forum lately so I'm just catching up in this thread. :)

I really enjoy maternally incubating eggs. I've done it this way for every ball python clutch I've had so far (4 clutches in two years so far now) and haven't lost a single egg. I cannot say the same for artificially incubated clutches.

The only regret I have is getting antsy waiting for one of last year's clutches to hatch (it just seemed like it was taking oh so long) and I snipped the eggs just to be sure. Not a good idea when you're maternally incubating because mom holds the eggs close to her and if the eggs are slit, the babies are no longer supported in their intact eggs and could potentially be squished. The eggs, themselves, will ooze and you will have a sticky mess to deal with. It's better to leave them alone if you're maternally incubating unless there's an indication that something actually is wrong, in which case you should move the eggs to an incubator after cutting to prevent any problems and mess.


// as for the natural birth vs. medicalized birth thing.. I'm all for natural there. The rate of medical intervention and cesareans is just horrible here. If I ever get pregnant again, I'm going to plan for a homebirth. :P