Panda Pied Question

Ok, The panda pied is awesome to start off and when i saw one i was like :O. But i was just wondering what the genetics are. Do you have to go this way? cinny x cinny to get a super cinny, then take super cinny x pied to get cinny het pied, then breed those back together to get the panda pied? thats what i was told i was just wondering because i would LOVE to produce one in the future.

You correct, to a point. Basically you want a Super Cinnamon Piebald or a Super Black Pastel Piebald. The Black Pastel in super form is darker than the Cinnamon, so that is the Panda pied you know about. Both both combination's can make a black and white snake, until they are adults, then the Super cinnamon pied would be more of a brown.

ok thank you...i look forward to produce one in the future.

You don't need to get the super cinny/black pastel right at the beginning! You want to cross the black pastel to a pied to start off with, and get your black pastels het pied. Then cross a pair of black pastel het pieds for a 1 in 16 shot at the panda.

The solid black supers will pop out as "leftovers" in that 2nd breeding, with (on average) 3 out of 16 animals being super black pastel 66% het for pied.

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Originally Posted by loonunit

You don't need to get the super cinny/black pastel right at the beginning! You want to cross the black pastel to a pied to start off with, and get your black pastels het pied. Then cross a pair of black pastel het pieds for a 1 in 16 shot at the panda.

The solid black supers will pop out as "leftovers" in that 2nd breeding, with (on average) 3 out of 16 animals being super black pastel 66% het for pied.

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I don't think I would ever breed the first set of hets back to each other. I would hate having so many "possible" hets to prove out. Instead, if you take the first clutch of hets and breed it to a pied you'd get a 25% chance of pied hets, 25% black pastel/pied hets, 25% pieds, 25% black pastel/pieds. Nothing to prove out.

Then I'd take the black pastel/pieds and mate them back to each other for the 25% chance of panda pied. This takes another generation of breeding, but you'll have a lot more chances of success. Even if you only get 1 black pastel/pied from the 2nd clutch and have to mate it to a black pastel/het pied, you'd still get 12.5% chance of panda pied, and again... none of the babies are "possible" hets for anything.

I'm going to start this (and lightning/albino pieds) project once my babies are all grown up in a couple of years. It's like being a kid and waiting for Christmas! :D

I always thought the Panda Pied was only a Super Black Pastel Pied. I see how the super cinny would work just don't think it's been done this route.

There are many roads to the end goal of a panda pied.

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

There are many roads to the end goal of a panda pied.

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Yep. If we can get our Pewter het Pied girls up to size this season, we'll even have a chance of producing one. The longer we sit on our Pewter Pied female, the more I want to keep her. She's growing like a weed right now. Tons of possibilities in the near future.

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Originally Posted by Reps4life

Ok, The panda pied is awesome to start off and when i saw one i was like :O. But i was just wondering what the genetics are. Do you have to go this way? cinny x cinny to get a super cinny, then take super cinny x pied to get cinny het pied, then breed those back together to get the panda pied? thats what i was told i was just wondering because i would LOVE to produce one in the future.

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With what's already been said, maybe you want to get more than one black pastels/cinnies to increase yous chances.

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Originally Posted by spitzu

I don't think I would ever breed the first set of hets back to each other. I would hate having so many "possible" hets to prove out. Instead, if you take the first clutch of hets and breed it to a pied you'd get a 25% chance of pied hets, 25% black pastel/pied hets, 25% pieds, 25% black pastel/pieds. Nothing to prove out. :D

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True...unless you know how to pick out the het pieds;)

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Originally Posted by Brandon Osborne

True...unless you know how to pick out the het pieds;)

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Speaking of het pieds, do het pieds of a morph have the same kind of traits as the normal het pieds? eg. railway tracks, watery markings? TIA

I see those in normals though... I don't see how people use that as markings for het peid. unless my normal is het peid from the pet store.

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Originally Posted by Subdriven

I see those in normals though... I don't see how people use that as markings for het peid. unless my normal is het peid from the pet store.

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Here you go: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...et+pied+market But again, nothing is really guaranteed until proven. ;)

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Originally Posted by spitzu

I don't think I would ever breed the first set of hets back to each other. I would hate having so many "possible" hets to prove out. Instead, if you take the first clutch of hets and breed it to a pied you'd get a 25% chance of pied hets, 25% black pastel/pied hets, 25% pieds, 25% black pastel/pieds. Nothing to prove out.

Then I'd take the black pastel/pieds and mate them back to each other for the 25% chance of panda pied. This takes another generation of breeding, but you'll have a lot more chances of success. Even if you only get 1 black pastel/pied from the 2nd clutch and have to mate it to a black pastel/het pied, you'd still get 12.5% chance of panda pied, and again... none of the babies are "possible" hets for anything.

I'm going to start this (and lightning/albino pieds) project once my babies are all grown up in a couple of years. It's like being a kid and waiting for Christmas! :D

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Well, sure. The "double het" crossing is just the "canonical" way--and a good way to make some solid black snakes, if you like those particularly.

...I think it's likely I'll do something more like what you describe, especially since I'll probably have some male black pastels het pied which are ready to go long before their sisters grow up. And I have some nice pied females which should be up to size by then.

(Plus I don't really like inbreeding if I can avoid it. But that just makes things even more complicated.)

crazy to read this as I was just talking about this project with a few people

lance

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Originally Posted by ace_singapore

With what's already been said, maybe you want to get more than one black pastels/cinnies to increase yous chances.

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well if this happens it will be a few years down the road. Im just gunna be starting my first breeding season in a year or two. Then i will start this project! My firt breeding season should be great with the animals im getting and if i have decent odds!

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Originally Posted by Subdriven

I see those in normals though... I don't see how people use that as markings for het peid. unless my normal is het peid from the pet store.

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Because it's not just the "tracks" you're looking for. :gj: All of my hets have them, have of my pos. het have them, and even my pastel het pieds have them. Ask Pete Kahl if he believes in them.