Climbing Balls

I know that most BPs don't like to climb and prefer to spend most of their time in their hides. Mine however thinks she's tarzan or something, when we got her we also bought a medium sized log for get to use. Well she loves it! She spends more time on the log (which is also on the cool side) than anywhere else. My temps are fine (85 ambient 91 hot, and 52% humidity) I just think she likes to climb up there and chill out.

Anyone else's BP climb?

Mine don't get the opportunity...but it sounds like yours is very comfortable in her set-up! Would love to see pics!! :D

I'll try and snap some (my camera sucks)

She just chills out like this, not a care in the world
http://i51.tinypic.com/24eazhe.jpg
Her tank setup
http://i56.tinypic.com/nqsiv7.jpg
Her beloved log
http://i52.tinypic.com/dnyn3q.jpg

I have a pastel male who likes to climb too.

Mine loves her branch too!! :D I think as long as you have the room and the branch is thick enough to support them properly (and not too high off the ground) there's nothing wrong with letting them climb.

However, I thought I'd mention that she really needs 2 similar hides, one on each side of the tank, and those little stick on thermometer/hygrometers are way too high up on the sides. They should only be an inch or two off the ground, that way you'll get more accurate readings closer to where the snake actually is!

Obviously your snake looks healthy and it's up to you, but if it were me I'd put another hide in there on the cool side and move those dials down/invest in better ones :)

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Originally Posted by blushingball419

Mine loves her branch too!! :D I think as long as you have the room and the branch is thick enough to support them properly (and not too high off the ground) there's nothing wrong with letting them climb.

However, I thought I'd mention that she really needs 2 similar hides, one on each side of the tank, and those little stick on thermometer/hygrometers are way too high up on the sides. They should only be an inch or two off the ground, that way you'll get more accurate readings closer to where the snake actually is!

Obviously your snake looks healthy and it's up to you, but if it were me I'd put another hide in there on the cool side and move those dials down/invest in better ones :)

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yeah I did replace those analog ones, what the shots don't show is the digital thermometer probe on the far right to check the hot spot and a digital hygrometer/thermometer in the center about 2 inches above the substrate. We did get her another hide, it was one that looked like a tree with a hollow in it and it had plastic leaves and branches......she completely ignored it lol

I'll probably get her another of the same rock hides that is on the hot side, but she doesn't hide much anyways. I think that if I got her a hide for the cool side she would just ignore it anyways and go on her branch :hmm:

She's very pretty!!! :sunny:

I'd say that if she's eating well...sleeping well...shedding well....then if it's not broke, don't fix it. :P

She definitely does all those lol. So far her only shed with us was a bad one but I have since got a real good handle on the humidity so her next one should be better.

Yeah, given the opportunity most of mine will climb. Some of them are bad at it and I'll hear them falling off branches in the middle of the night... but unless they manage to scare themselves, they generally climb right back up. Some of them will perch up there for hours.

She looks pretty happy up there!

This climbing seems to me like the snake is most comfortable at the coolest part in the cage obviously. If she is always there, my gut feeling would tell me the overall ambient temperature is too hot, leaving her unable to use a comfortable hide on the ground and take advantage of gradient temps. Call me crazy but most balls are comfortable in the 78-83 range. They will do fine in 90 degree tanks, but I do know when they are given a choice, they settle in around 82-85 degrees to bask. Most new python keepers seem scared of temperatures below 80 degrees. Truth is, they can really be comfortable there. In 20 years I've never seen a Respiratory Infection. Anyways, very beautiful snake there. Just wanted to shed some of my experience.

She is climbing and chilling in that spot for warmth it seems. She is directly under the light.
Some things that looks out of place are the following:
-Dial ambient temp/humidity reader (HIGHLY inaccurate)
-Random probe exposed (guessing no UTH)
-Only looks like heat bulbs for heat (BPs do better with a belly heat of some sort, making a hide worthless b/c now they have to expose themselves for warmth)

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Originally Posted by majorleaguereptiles

This climbing seems to me like the snake is most comfortable at the coolest part in the cage obviously. If she is always there, my gut feeling would tell me the overall ambient temperature is too hot, leaving her unable to use a comfortable hide on the ground and take advantage of gradient temps. Call me crazy but most balls are comfortable in the 78-83 range. They will do fine in 90 degree tanks, but I do know when they are given a choice, they settle in around 82-85 degrees to bask. Most new python keepers seem scared of temperatures below 80 degrees. Truth is, they can really be comfortable there. In 20 years I've never seen a Respiratory Infection. Anyways, very beautiful snake there. Just wanted to shed some of my experience.

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What?? Maybe a Burm but not a BP. All mine are in the 92 degree hide pretty much all day everyday. Now they aren't at the moment b/c of breeding season (young ones still are), seeing I dropped the temps but that is beyond the point.
Telling people bad husbandry tips isn't a way to help out a new keeper, starting bad practices is not a way to start. If later on the keeper "feels" as though another way is "better" then so be it, but there are optimal guidelines to keep your pet thriving.
Also python keepers aren't scared of temps below 80, we are worried about temps below 75 for a prolonged period of time (can cause RI's)

From your photo it looks like a second hide migh be in order. Generally speaking 2 hides the same one hot one cold. I also personally think that in a set up similar to yours a touch of cover might be good too like a fake plant perhaps.

This aside if she is eating and regulating and sheds fine and has been doing so for a while there isn't really a problem. Ball pythons are fairly communicative with issues they stop eating. Now what that issue is is another story...

Climbing, in its self is no problem the magority of mine will one more than the others. There are written accounts of in Togo finding them in low tree branches (P. De Vosjoli). I think that a snake that is hiding 100% of the time is not normal either I expect to see mine every now and again usually in the late night but sometimes in the early morning (about 2 hours before sunrise) not everyday but some days (usually before feeding day they are all out :P )

The gauages you have in the photo, are they humidor gauges? I have been on a personal quest for accuracy lately (OCD) and in a post Sunday I think someone recommended them after some poking around and reading specs I'd actually say a decent humidor analogue guage is many time superior to cheap digital ones! They can be calibrated and set to correct. The cheap humidor digitals also have a finer degree of arror than cheap digital (1% humidy up or down and 1ºF up or down) When you look at regular digital 5% (some are 10%) and 2ºF (some are 2ºC which is 5.4º!!!) up or down allowable by the manufacturer. If they are humidor gauages they are likely better than most digitals. (don't take my say so check your specs!)

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Originally Posted by thedarkwolf25

yeah I did replace those analog ones, what the shots don't show is the digital thermometer probe on the far right to check the hot spot and a digital hygrometer/thermometer in the center about 2 inches above the substrate. We did get her another hide, it was one that looked like a tree with a hollow in it and it had plastic leaves and branches......she completely ignored it lol

I'll probably get her another of the same rock hides that is on the hot side, but she doesn't hide much anyways. I think that if I got her a hide for the cool side she would just ignore it anyways and go on her branch :hmm:

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Well, that's good that you got a digital thermometer/hygrometer and that you're at least offering her a cool side hide. Yeah, she does seem pretty happy up there, but I wanted to mention it just in case ;) That is an awesome branch... better not show my girl or she might get jealous haha :P I agree with JLC though, if she's eating and shedding well and seems content, then I wouldn't change a thing :)

my baby bp's seem to think their branches r swingsets cuz they will clime up, hang upside down then slide to the bottom, fall off and do it all over again. i have the bottom of their tanks padded now so they dont get hurt.

The ambient is almost always 85, it does get a little lower if it gets cold but I always maintain a hotspot of 90-92 so she can warm up if she wants to. Heating setup is 1 150W infared lamp, one 50W infared lamp and a 50-60 gallon Repti-Therm UTH on the right side. I'll move the lamps around as necessary to keep the ambient and the hotspot where they need to be. We did have a cold side hide for her but she completely ignored it and stayed on the branch anyways.

The exposed probe is so that I can measure the hot spot temps with a digital thermometer (I forget the brand) and the ambient is measured with a Fluker's digital thermometer/hygrometer.

I do want to get some plants to put in there so the tank isn't so bare looking, just not sure what kind to use, all the ones that Petsmart sells seem so sparse.

I usually go for the more vine-like plants since they generally come pretty long, and you can move them around and shape them however you want. Dollar stores usually have some decent fake plants actually, and they're a lot cheaper than the pet stores.

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Originally Posted by blushingball419

I usually go for the more vine-like plants since they generally come pretty long, and you can move them around and shape them however you want. Dollar stores usually have some decent fake plants actually, and they're a lot cheaper than the pet stores.

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Oh! good idea! We go to Dollar Tree alot for cheap snacks and such, they might have some cheap houseplants. But a question, is there anything I should look for? I don't want to get any type of plastic that might hurt her or make her sick.

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Originally Posted by thedarkwolf25

Heating setup is 1 150W infared lam

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And there is problem in itself

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Originally Posted by thedarkwolf25

Oh! good idea! We go to Dollar Tree alot for cheap snacks and such, they might have some cheap houseplants. But a question, is there anything I should look for? I don't want to get any type of plastic that might hurt her or make her sick.

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Look for the ones with softer leaves, I think sometimes they call them "silk." The harder plastic ones probably aren't bad either, but I'm sure the softer ones are nicer to climb and crawl through all the time :) And then just make sure to rinse them off thoroughly to get rid of any residues that might be on them.

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Originally Posted by MitsuMike

And there is problem in itself

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How is that a problem? My temps are fine and so is the humididty. I also stated that I am using 1 ReptiTherm UTH and am looking at getting another so I can ditch one or both of the heat lamps. The setup works for me so don't get mad just because you don't agree with it.

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Originally Posted by blushingball419

Look for the ones with softer leaves, I think sometimes they call them "silk." The harder plastic ones probably aren't bad either, but I'm sure the softer ones are nicer to climb and crawl through all the time :) And then just make sure to rinse them off thoroughly to get rid of any residues that might be on them.

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Will do, thanks for that!

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Originally Posted by thedarkwolf25

How is that a problem? My temps are fine and so is the humididty. I also stated that I am using 1 ReptiTherm UTH and am looking at getting another so I can ditch one or both of the heat lamps. The setup works for me so don't get mad just because you don't agree with it.



Will do, thanks for that!

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I'm not mad. It's your snake, if you feel like providing it improper setup then have at it.
There is a proper way to house a snake and there are ways "to get away with it". I am just a firm believer in that you do things RIGHT the first time and don't half*** stuff. If I kept animals like that, I would stop keeping them. Sure, is your snake eating and shedding good? Yes. Alot of animals can adapt to improper setups and thrive, BUT it doesn't mean you should set it up as such.
Like I said there is the BEST way to do things and there other ways. Can a snake live, eat and shed in both? Yes. But wouldn't you want to provide your pet with the PROPER environment. And I am not just referring to your heating setup, there are way to many things to say and waste my time telling you. Because your snake is "eating and shedding well"......:rofl:

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Originally Posted by MitsuMike

I'm not mad. It's your snake, if you feel like providing it improper setup then have at it.
There is a proper way to house a snake and there are ways "to get away with it". I am just a firm believer in that you do things RIGHT the first time and don't half*** stuff. If I kept animals like that, I would stop keeping them. Sure, is your snake eating and shedding good? Yes. Alot of animals can adapt to improper setups and thrive, BUT it doesn't mean you should set it up as such.
Like I said there is the BEST way to do things and there other ways. Can a snake live, eat and shed in both? Yes. But wouldn't you want to provide your pet with the PROPER environment. And I am not just referring to your heating setup, there are way to many things to say and waste my time telling you. Because your snake is "eating and shedding well"......:rofl:

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You still didn't answer the question, how it is a problem? Do you even have an answer or do you just want to go on some holier-than-thou crusade because I do something you don't agree with?

By all means enlighten me as to how horrible my setup is and how poorly my animal is being cared for.

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Originally Posted by MitsuMike

Telling people bad husbandry tips isn't a way to help out a new keeper, starting bad practices is not a way to start.

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I didn't see anyone giving out bad husbandry advice. Just because someone doesn't do it the exact same way you do it doesn't make it "bad."

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Originally Posted by thedarkwolf25

I do want to get some plants to put in there so the tank isn't so bare looking, just not sure what kind to use, all the ones that Petsmart sells seem so sparse.

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Craft stores and Walmart usually have lots of different fake vines to choose from as well. The hard plastic ones are easier to sanitize...the silk ones are prettier. Up to you. :P I can't think of any specific restrictions for such things.

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Originally Posted by MitsuMike

I'm not mad. It's your snake, if you feel like providing it improper setup then have at it.
There is a proper way to house a snake and there are ways "to get away with it". I am just a firm believer in that you do things RIGHT the first time ...

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Here's the thing, Mike...it's not up to you to determine what's "right" for everyone else. You should most certainly offer your opinion on what might be better solutions....but to just jump in a thread and start scolding people for "bad husbandry advice" and telling others their set up is all wrong, just because it's not how you like it..... :colbert: There ARE different ways to go about caring for these animals that are all just fine. And while there are some very obvious "wrong" ways, none of those "wrong" ways are coming across here. There is no reason to be so arrogant in your approach to simple husbandry differences.

We went to Dollar tree and picked up some of the vine type plants. I think it looks a bit more lively in there now, and she is certainly curious about the new additions :D

http://i54.tinypic.com/mug5z.jpg

http://i52.tinypic.com/13yqw6q.jpg

http://i56.tinypic.com/vwwg44.jpg

http://i51.tinypic.com/qnr8yg.jpg

very nice!! :D I always love watching them explore new things!

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Originally Posted by JLC

I didn't see anyone giving out bad husbandry advice. Just because someone doesn't do it the exact same way you do it doesn't make it "bad."



Craft stores and Walmart usually have lots of different fake vines to choose from as well. The hard plastic ones are easier to sanitize...the silk ones are prettier. Up to you. :P I can't think of any specific restrictions for such things.



Here's the thing, Mike...it's not up to you to determine what's "right" for everyone else. You should most certainly offer your opinion on what might be better solutions....but to just jump in a thread and start scolding people for "bad husbandry advice" and telling others their set up is all wrong, just because it's not how you like it..... :colbert: There ARE different ways to go about caring for these animals that are all just fine. And while there are some very obvious "wrong" ways, none of those "wrong" ways are coming across here. There is
no reason to be so arrogant in your approach to simple husbandry differences.

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Telling people to have a basking spot of 82-85 false info in "experience" is bad info.

I not saying my way is "right", as you say, but it is the BEST way, like I have already said. And you can keep a dog over the winter in a unheated dog house that is too small for it. The dog will eat, drink and lick your face BUT is it the "right" way? Depends on the person......is it the BEST? No.
An over sized tank for a bp of that size would have been simply solved by researching. A climbing log for a ground snake who borrow and not climb, which has also been proven to possibly hurt you snake is not the smartest thing I've seen done. Also having a towel resting on a HEAT lamp isn't the wisest thing as well. As far as heating it's been said time and time and time and time and oh yea time again heat lamps.....no, uth.......yes. Having all sides of the tank open glass without a covering to help the ball feel more secure. Simple things that are the BEST way to do things.

I mean, another example. Let's say you lock your child in a closet for its whole life. Let out for "play time" once daily for exercise. Now is it the wrong way to raise a child? I mean the kid eats and grows right? Wrong we don't do that b/c it's not the BEST way to do things.

I'm arrogant b/c i do the best way not a way just to get the job done......aka your guys "right" way. I do things the best way b/c I care and respect my animals. It speaks miles about people by the way you "care" for an animal.

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Originally Posted by MitsuMike

Telling people to have a basking spot of 82-85 false info in "experience" is bad info.

I not saying my way is "right", as you say, but it is the BEST way, like I have already said. And you can keep a dog over the winter in a unheated dog house that is too small for it. The dog will eat, drink and lick your face BUT is it the "right" way? Depends on the person......is it the BEST? No.
An over sized tank for a bp of that size would have been simply solved by researching. A climbing log for a ground snake who borrow and not climb, which has also been proven to possibly hurt you snake is not the smartest thing I've seen done. Also having a towel resting on a HEAT lamp isn't the wisest thing as well. As far as heating it's been said time and time and time and time and oh yea time again heat lamps.....no, uth.......yes. Having all sides of the tank open glass without a covering to help the ball feel more secure. Simple things that are the BEST way to do things.

I mean, another example. Let's say you lock your child in a closet for its whole life. Let out for "play time" once daily for exercise. Now is it the wrong way to raise a child? I mean the kid eats and grows right? Wrong we don't do that b/c it's not the BEST way to do things.

I'm arrogant b/c i do the best way not a way just to get the job done......aka your guys "right" way. I do things the best way b/c I care and respect my animals. It speaks miles about people by the way you "care" for an animal.

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You don't seem to be able to read OR accurately look at pictures. The heat lamps are not ON the towels they are next to them and the towels are dampened daily to help maintain humidity (since heat lamps eat humidity). I have already stated that I have 1 ReptiTherm UTH for 50-60 gallon tanks on the right side to help with hotspot temps, and that I am getting another one so I can lose 1 or both of the heat lamps.

You ARE correct about the size of the tank being too large, however I can easily get a tub system for her if she was at all stressed (which she is not). And as for a climbing log for a ground snake she CHOOSES to climb it, I don't PUT her there for my amusement or some strange sense that that is where she belongs. I got it mainly for decoration. Hell when I bought her she was climbing the thermometers attached to her tank at the pet store. I've done plenty of research and have the health of my animal in mind at all times.

You're pitching a fit because I don't do it the exact same way you do (the "right way" in your mind). So long as my snake is eating regularly, has a good temp gradient and the necessary humidity and a hide she has everything she needs. But I've wasted too much time trying to get through your arrogance and am going to let this thread die.

Thanks Judy!
Well Said!

OP if you do get plants at walmart ect. check one thing sometimes the dyes or paints use will rub off. especially true of grass like plant bunches, I always rub one leaf in the store and see if any colour transfers. I avoid any that does transfer.

And Mike are you sure yours are not improper? No snake should ALWAYS be in its hides. Perhaps you have something that isn't quite right.

The savanna climate has a temperature range of 68° to 86° F (20° - 30° C). In the winter, it is usually about 68° to 78° F (20° - 25° C). In the summer the temperature ranges from 78° to 86° F (25° - 30° C). In a Savanna the temperature does not change a lot. When it does, its very gradual and not drastic.

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Originally Posted by eracer

The savanna climate has a temperature range of 68° to 86° F (20° - 30° C). In the winter, it is usually about 68° to 78° F (20° - 25° C). In the summer the temperature ranges from 78° to 86° F (25° - 30° C). In a Savanna the temperature does not change a lot. When it does, its very gradual and not drastic.

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Interesting I have seen figures for the grasslands of Togo that are a bit different but similar, winter to summer average LOWs of 75ºF to 80ºF August being the coldest and Feb to March the warmest. High averages are like 80ºF to 90ºF of so but one can assume lower and higher as the information I have is monthly averages.

We can never get everything right all we can do is try to build the best environment we can for the animals in our care.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

Thanks Judy!
Well Said!

OP if you do get plants at walmart ect. check one thing sometimes the dyes or paints use will rub off. especially true of grass like plant bunches, I always rub one leaf in the store and see if any colour transfers. I avoid any that does transfer.

And Mike are you sure yours are not improper? No snake should ALWAYS be in its hides. Perhaps you have something that isn't quite right.

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Thanks Kite I didn't consider that fact. I don't think the ones we got are like that though, they appear to be molded plastic and not painted but I'll double check that.

NP I picked up some grass stuff from the dollar store a while back and while I was messing with it I had tan stuff all over my hands it was from the plants so I tossed them.

I checked mine and after 30 secs of vigorous rubbing no ink came off so it should be fine.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

Thanks Judy!
Well Said!

OP if you do get plants at walmart ect. check one thing sometimes the dyes or paints use will rub off. especially true of grass like plant bunches, I always rub one leaf in the store and see if any colour transfers. I avoid any that does transfer.

And Mike are you sure yours are not improper? No snake should ALWAYS be in its hides. Perhaps you have something that isn't quite right.

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I never said ALWAYS. I said all D-A-Y. Yes BPs are nocturnal in case you didn't know. And yes my rack powered by my herpstat pro running the flex watt at 91.6 give or take belly bask and 80.7 give or take cool side, must be wrong right? With a space heater to keep the room heated as well in case of low temps outside I'm at work. Before you go running your unintelligent trap know what your talking about first. Even if you hate me, I'm still right. Hate it or love it my way is best. Not it works and they eat, no its the best.
And actually it's not my way. It's the true BP way. There is a reason all good reptile owners follow the correct path.

Mine has been climbing around quite a bit today. He seems to climb all day one day, then do nothing for a few days.

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Originally Posted by MitsuMike

I never said ALWAYS. I said all D-A-Y. Yes BPs are nocturnal in case you didn't know. And yes my rack powered by my herpstat pro running the flex watt at 91.6 give or take belly bask and 80.7 give or take cool side, must be wrong right? With a space heater to keep the room heated as well in case of low temps outside I'm at work. Before you go running your unintelligent trap know what your talking about first. Even if you hate me, I'm still right. Hate it or love it my way is best. Not it works and they eat, no its the best.
And actually it's not my way. It's the true BP way. There is a reason all good reptile owners follow the correct path.

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I think that you should possibly re-read what you have written before you hit post. You might not think that you are coming off like an arrogant and rude person but you are. You are making assumptions about what a ball python truly needs. Now, yes, they have been studied in their natural habitats, but that doesn't mean the people who studied them saw everything. You mention them being nocturnal, so how do we know that wild balls don't climb small brush at night? Temperatures you are quoting are air temps of the natural environment but you said yourself that they are burrowing snakes. What then do you think in the temp difference below ground because a 5 degree drop wouldn't be unthinkable. If a snake is given a temp gradient in the range of the natural habitat it will hang out where it is most comfortable. And just because the space is bigger than MOST people prefer, if the snake is showing no signs of stress, why is it any of your concern?



And finally, to the OP, make sure you check those vines for any circular wires. I bought a couple and they had little rings that needed to be popped off before letting my baby in with him just in case he though he would fit but wouldn't :D

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Originally Posted by jbean7916

I think that you should possibly re-read what you have written before you hit post. You might not think that you are coming off like an arrogant and rude person but you are. You are making assumptions about what a ball python truly needs. Now, yes, they have been studied in their natural habitats, but that doesn't mean the people who studied them saw everything. You mention them being nocturnal, so how do we know that wild balls don't climb small brush at night? Temperatures you are quoting are air temps of the natural environment but you said yourself that they are burrowing snakes. What then do you think in the temp difference below ground because a 5 degree drop wouldn't be unthinkable. If a snake is given a temp gradient in the range of the natural habitat it will hang out where it is most comfortable. And just because the space is bigger than MOST people prefer, if the snake is showing no signs of stress, why is it any of your concern?



And finally, to the OP, make sure you check those vines for any circular wires. I bought a couple and they had little rings that needed to be popped off before letting my baby in with him just in case he though he would fit but wouldn't :D

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Will do, they do have some rings on the end but they are so small that I think they are designed for push pins. But I'll check for any closed loops.

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Originally Posted by MitsuMike

I never said ALWAYS. I said all D-A-Y. Yes BPs are nocturnal in case you didn't know. And yes my rack powered by my herpstat pro running the flex watt at 91.6 give or take belly bask and 80.7 give or take cool side, must be wrong right? With a space heater to keep the room heated as well in case of low temps outside I'm at work. Before you go running your unintelligent trap know what your talking about first. Even if you hate me, I'm still right. Hate it or love it my way is best. Not it works and they eat, no its the best.
And actually it's not my way. It's the true BP way. There is a reason all good reptile owners follow the correct path.

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You really need to get over yourself. No one said your temps were wrong....they just said your attitude sucks. There is no "True BP way", but if you're absolutely dead set on pushing yours on everyone, then I strongly encourage you to start your OWN site and write your own caresheets and books.

We have 6 BPs and 1 Corn Snake here (which is mine).

4 of the BPs are in a rack system, 1 is in a separate tub, and the other is in a tank.

The one in the tank, Jules, has a log and a hide. He does not go on his log often but we do find him up there now and then. One of the girls, Adel, in the rack is always getting up on top of her hide and trying to push her way up to get out of the rack. When we pull Adel's tub all the way out of the rack for cleaning she always gets up on the edges of the tub and hangs out there for a bit before trying to go explore the carpet. Another one of the girls, Hope (We named her that after going through a couple months of assist feeding and her finally taking mice), does the same thing when we take the lid off of her tub. She also has to hides in her new tub. One being taller than the other. Sometimes, I find her stretched across reaching between the two or completely on top of the higher one. The tub Hope used to be in had handles on it, which created ledges and she often got up on top of the ledges in the tub and sat up there. Our other three BPs do not exhibit any desires for climbing.

As for staying in the hides and being out -- we have a few different scenarios with the snakes. The Bumble Bee BP in the rack spends most of his day in his hide. The Spider, Arachnia, in the rack likes to sit with half her body in the hide and the other half out. She has plenty of room in her hide and she is all the way in it often. Jules usually follows the same behavior pattern as Arachnia. However, when he does come out all the way he is usually stretched out or on his log. Adel is almost ALWAYS out of hide, during the day and very late at night seems to be when she is most active. She is very rarely in there. She makes a mess of her paper towels in the tub and is always active. I think she should be the tank and not Jules; However, that is an on-going debate in the house. Hope is pretty active, but she does go in her hide a lot. Our Lesser BP is pretty timid and does not come out a lot but when she does come out she likes to sit around the edges of her water bowl or rest just beside it.

So, yes some BPs like to climb. Some follow the nocturnal behavior, but half of ours are also active during the day. We have one that is pretty much in his hide all day. 4 of the snakes have the exact same temps and humidity and they all behave differently. So, the temps/humidity don't seem to effect their behavior much.

Mike, I myself come off as a bit arrogant and cocky and do not realize it until I read things or think about things that I stated until much later. You come off as arrogant. I can see that some of your arguments follow the fallacies of: circling in on yourself to keep the argument within the range of your comfort; and directly attacking your opponent. Which, I must say are the two fallacies that irritate me the most. I also think that maybe you see things slightly more extreme than other people. Your behavior seems to be that of someone who believes people are trying to humiliate you when they respond to your posts. Which, could be true in some cases because a lot of people tend to get irritated quickly when confronted with someone they feel is arrogant. However, I do not feel that anyone was directly attacking you nor that anyone "hates" you. I feel that they just disagree with you and are not fond of the attitude that you bring into your opinions. There are a lot of ways to set things up and a lot of opinions about the different ways for things to be done in each scenario of housing in tubs, tanks, racks, and etc.

As for the BP that is doing all this climbing. It looks healthy and if it is not stressed I definitely don't see anything wrong with your set up. I have heard from a lot of people that the heat lamps are not so great, but if they are serving their purpose -- all is well. Hopefully, you can get them replaced soon and I wish you luck with that venture. Your set up looks a lot nicer now that you have the plants. One thing I would suggest though is to keep them away from the water or secured from getting into it. My corn snake knocked his plant into his water bowl once and it turned slightly green. I fixed that immediately though when I saw it. GL with your BP. And on behalf of the BP community "Welcome to the Addiction".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by L2.BP.Plox

As for the BP that is doing all this climbing. It looks healthy and if it is not stressed I definitely don't see anything wrong with your set up. I have heard from a lot of people that the heat lamps are not so great, but if they are serving their purpose -- all is well. Hopefully, you can get them replaced soon and I wish you luck with that venture. Your set up looks a lot nicer now that you have the plants. One thing I would suggest though is to keep them away from the water or secured from getting into it. My corn snake knocked his plant into his water bowl once and it turned slightly green. I fixed that immediately though when I saw it. GL with your BP. And on behalf of the BP community "Welcome to the Addiction".

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Hmm good idea, I'll tuck several parts of it under the water bowl. And thank you:snake:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thedarkwolf25

Oh! good idea! We go to Dollar Tree alot for cheap snacks and such, they might have some cheap houseplants. But a question, is there anything I should look for? I don't want to get any type of plastic that might hurt her or make her sick.

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Good question - above all else - the fake plants do tend to come with plastic rings on them for the purposes of hanging them as decoration in a home, etc.

Cut those suckers off IMMEDIATELY if yours has them. We've had countless members come on here freaking out because their snake found that plastic ring while crawling through it and became stuck in the ring and entangled. The only way to remove it was to cut it off and in some cases, the animal was left scarred because the ring was so tight around their body.

I haven't read the whole thread but can tell you....my BPs all have different attitudes. I have one that when she was in a tank...thought she was a GTP at night. It was hilarious....she would even hang off the top branch like she was in the movie the "Jungle Book". This is the same BP that thinks she is a human and should be out with us ALL the time. She will explore all over but not farther than the tail wrapped around some part of our body. I have another that is a lap dog...just sits there while you pet her and stares at you. Another that likes to watch TV. ETC ETC...


Seriously I could go on and on about what they do that is "off kilter" to what they should do. :oops:

My only suggestion would be to get an additional hide on that other side...and get an accurite thermometer (wally world). Other than that enjoy you "different"acting BP...personally they are my favs.

PM sent, didn't mean to post

Mike,
first off I am sorry I didn't read you earlier post and missed 'pretty much' My intention was to be a bit sardonic, your posts rub me the wrong way.

What really bugs me is the sweeping statements you always seem to make (in my experience) You HAVE to do... Lamps are bad. I guess radiant heat panels are bad too? Although they are the best simulation of a natural environment available. Belly heat is a matter of simplicity for most.

I feel it is sad that you have a good knowledge base but will not share it in a reasonable way. Why bother being part of a community of exchange of information if you are going to name call and make judgements that you have only partial information on?

Setting up a miniature eco system is a delicate balancing act. The location of the enclosure and conditions in the that area will greatly effect the environmental controls required to maintain the temp ranges in the enclosure. I know you understand that so why harass a less experienced person by saying what he is doing (which is close in figures to you) is wrong? It is working for him perhaps he will make changes at some point or not his choice.

Call me what ever you like it doesn't bother me. I don't know you so I can't hate you or like you either, I'll make that judgement until I have had the chance to meet you in person. Personally I welcome criticism it makes one re think what they are doing and why, I try to listen to what others say and take something of value from it.

Again I am sorry if my jibe upset you.
Alex

OP for my part in this I am sorry that valuable information has been confused by squabbling. I hope that you can sift over what has been said and take away things that are useful. Ultimately every set up is different, and each has its own challenges.

I hope that you are having fun and enjoying your snake.
Alex

Okay, I read all 5 pages of this entire thing...

Judy is right and... yes, Mike also has a point. The first thing that came to my head when I saw the set-up was... "no wonder he's climbing"... of course, like my signature says on the bottom, I'm no expert.

But here's what I learned from the measly 2 years that I've owned these critters:
1.) The first 2 snakes I owned climbed their logs the first few weeks I've owned them. They climbed all day long. Check out my avatar. You see my baby spider on top of the log (100g bp in a 20 gallon). They didn't use the hides much. I had my first 350g pastel bp in a 55 gallon Exo-Terra decked out like this:
http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...ss07/Curly.jpg
She climbed day in and day out. I thought it was CUTE! I wasn't a member of bp.net yet.
So then I found her mostly doing this when we pass by:
http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...s07/curly3.jpg
So yeah, I finally realized after a few months of owning her that she was stressed out as all get.... and I thought she was just being CUTE!

The spider was stressed too - we realized that later on - although he was eating every week without fail. We found a big difference after careful observation of these snakes in temperament between when he was in his initial set-up to when we adjusted his set-up to be more "ideal" (I guess this is what Mikemitsu refers to as the "best" way, although, I wouldn't go so far as calling it the "best" because that is really relative to the snake you have).

2.) My 3rd snake I got at 300g or so (if I remember correctly). I was already reading all these stuff on bp.net by then. I put her up in a 10gallon like this:
http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...photo-36-1.jpg
She never tried climbing. Her previous owner said she's a finicky eater. She ate not even a week after I got her and has not skipped meals since. That's for more than 2 years.

Anyway, after we adjusted all the set-ups to be more "ideal" - we moved the pastel to a 20 gallon, the spider to a 10-gallon. They quit climbing. They stayed in their hides most of the time only to be seen a few times at night. Which is kinda boring (they're in my office - I work from home - so I see their houses all day long).

So, my take on climbing snakes:
- I would first worry that they are climbing - checking husbandry, etc. to make sure they got the necessary characteristics - temperature, humidity, and security. Because climbing is not "ideal" for these guys.
- If everything is good, then they probably are one of the "unique" ones that just like to hang out on a branch.

Just my 2 cents on the matter.

Alex and anatess....exceptionally well said, both of you. Thank you!!!

The funny thing is , I have seen all over BP.net that 2 hides are needed. I had tried a couple out but they just didn't work. The first was a small tupperware container with a slot cut out so she could get in. I think the fact that it was clear made her shy away from that.

The second one we got her was a decorative one from PetSmart that looked like a hollowed out tree stump, and she never went in that one. So we took that back yesterday and got some in-store credit for it (likely going to use that in the purchase of our next UTH).

I just checked on her and she is (I think) using the leaves as a hide as she is coiled up just how she is when she is in her hot side hide. Here's a pic.

http://i56.tinypic.com/fcnuro.jpg

Still going to get another hide for the cool side, but since she is using the leaves as a hide is that ok for now?

One thing to keep in mind about trying out different hides is that they live life muuuuuch more slowly than we do. And they're purely instinctual. Whenever you put a new hide in there, it's not an instant gratification for them. (It MIGHT be, because some are more bold than others...but for most, it takes time (up to a week or two) to convince themselves that that perfect little cave hasn't already been claimed by some other critter that might want it back.

And yeah, I realize that is a bit of projecting and anthropomorphizing, but I'm just trying to paint a picture of why it sometimes takes them awhile to accept a new hide.