What to do?

Ok so around Tuesday last week we got a letter (everyone did) saying a maintenance man would be in the apartment to check for "water leaks"

Well when i get home Friday i come to find a letter stating that I am to pay $300 for the keeping of "pets" well I call up and play dumb and ask what pets am i keeping. She informs me I need to pay $300 for the keeping of pets or else its breaking the lease. So i told her I do not keep any pets. Mind you i'm playing dumb because in my head i'm thinking why was a maintenance man upstairs in my room in my CLOSET looking for leaks? Better yet if i keep them in a rack how did he know it was an animal?

So she proceeds to tell me that the keeping of "SNAKES" falls under the "pets" category.

Now heres my question. Why was a maintenance man in my room, in my closet, and how in the world did he see a snake through a tub?

My guess is he pulled out the tub and seen a snake.

So should I pay the $300 or have they broken a law here and i should not have to pay the $300?

You ARE in violation of the lease if you have pets and have not paid a pet deposit as they require. I would pay the $300 and be glad they aren't saying something like, "NO SNAKES ALLOWED" and forcing you to choose between getting rid of the snakes or being evicted.

The violation of privacy is an entirely different issue and I'm honestly not sure how to pursue that. Maybe you can pay the $300 deposit...then demand a $300 compensation for the violation of privacy? It certainly seems like SOMEone was poking their nose where it had no business being. Maybe he went through your underwear drawer and read your private journal, too? Creepy...and worthy of a serious complaint. But I don't think you'd have a leg to stand on if you try to mix the two issues into one.

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Originally Posted by JLC

You ARE in violation of the lease if you have pets and have not paid a pet deposit as they require. I would pay the $300 and be glad they aren't saying something like, "NO SNAKES ALLOWED" and forcing you to choose between getting rid of the snakes or being evicted.

The violation of privacy is an entirely different issue and I'm honestly not sure how to pursue that. Maybe you can pay the $300 deposit...then demand a $300 compensation for the violation of privacy? It certainly seems like SOMEone was poking their nose where it had no business being. Maybe he went through your underwear drawer and read your private journal, too? Creepy...and worthy of a serious complaint. But I don't think you'd have a leg to stand on if you try to mix the two issues into one.

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Thats exactly my point. Who knows what else they were into. Now i wasn't trying to get out of the $300. I didn't think snakes would be covered under "pets" cuz it states "cats and dogs" not reptiles.

But my point is they were going through my stuff. What if he had left the tub open? I come home and my snake is gone? Then what? What if it bit him?

I don't know how to approach telling her the fact they broke the law and i'm not to happy about it. Because i'm at the point where I will tell everyone in the surrounding apartments the fact that theres a rouge maintenance man going through peoples stuff during "watch leak checks"

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Originally Posted by f4n70m

Thats exactly my point. Who knows what else they were into. Now i wasn't trying to get out of the $300. I didn't think snakes would be covered under "pets" cuz it states "cats and dogs" not reptiles.

But my point is they were going through my stuff. What if he had left the tub open? I come home and my snake is gone? Then what? What if it bit him?

I don't know how to approach telling her the fact they broke the law and i'm not to happy about it. Because i'm at the point where I will tell everyone in the surrounding apartments the fact that theres a rouge maintenance man going through peoples stuff during "watch leak checks"

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Here's what I would do in your shoes....

I'd go the manager (not just the receptionist or assistant behind the front desk, but make an appt with whoever is in charge of the whole complex) and tell him/her that you were unaware that "small animals" kept in escape-proof enclosures were considered the same as "cats and dogs" as stated in the lease you signed. If, indeed, a pet deposit is required...and those keeping hamsters and parakeets and goldfish also pay the same deposit...then you are fully willing to cooperate.

Then I'd say, "Now that that issue is settled, I have something much more serious to discuss with you." And, being as reasonable as possible, without letting your anger get in the way of good business sense...explain that you have definitive proof that the maintenance man is snooping into people's private property. You wish both compensation for the violation of your rights, (something reasonable...say...$300 :P ) as well as his/her assurance that this person will be dealt with accordingly so the matter never happens again. Do NOT make threats at this time about going public or bringing in lawyers or anything like that. Don't put them on the defensive or back them into a corner. Give them a chance to make it right first. IF they balk and refuse or blow you off....then bring out the promises of unpleasant publicity and/or lawyers.

Good luck with it!!

Thanks for the advise!

And here is my big issue with paying $300 to keep the snakes.

Its a "deposit" to keep a "pet" my snakes are not gonna pee on the carpet and ruin it so it needs replaced. They will not cause damage to the apartment so it needs repairs. But we all know the likelihood of me getting the deposit back even if no damage was done as a result of my snakes is not reasonable.

I will take ur advise and try to approach them in that manner it just really upsets me because what if he didnt close that tub and my Bee or something got out. I't would be very upsetting. And also the fact it puts me on edge as to what else they have went through and looked at.

I live in a condo, have been here a little over a year, I recieved a letter from my association about 4 months, stating that during one of their routine inspections, it was noted that I had several large snakes. and their hoa policy states no pets.

My snake room is locked (deadbolt) at all times, and I know for a fact that they had not been in my condo, I tossed the letter.

The difference with you is that you lease, they can & will make your life miserable, pay the $300. If you have concerns about snoopers, just buy a motion activated camera less than $100 on ebay (disguised as woking alarm clock) set it up in your bedroom to catch snoopers in the act, then go from there.

Well it's actually really easy to tell it there's animals in a tub if they are near the front. It does seem as if he violated your privacy by going into your closet, so i would take that up with the landlord.

Also if snakes are considered pets, then ask if everyone that owns small pets like hamsters and fish are also charged this deposit. That would be what i really would be worried about is that they are discriminating against you because of the reptiles you own.

It's possible that the maintenance man was doing a structural intergrity check, meaning, not only would they be checking for leaky faucets and toilets, but they would also be checking the ceilings and walls for any evidence of rain water and internal plumbing leaking in and soaking down into the drywall...

Yea im looking over the terms now. It says if you posses "small dogs or cats" a $300 deposit is required.

So i dont see why a deposit would be required for a snake as it will not damage the apartment in anyway that it needs repaired. Which is exactly what the $300 covers.

I called and uhhh... Hes supposed to be "calling me back" The lady at the desk said when he is in she will have him give me a call cuz he was unfortunately "out for lunch"

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Originally Posted by Vypyrz

It's possible that the maintenance man was doing a structural intergrity check, meaning, not only would they be checking for leaky faucets and toilets, but they would also be checking the ceilings and walls for any evidence of rain water and internal plumbing leaking in and soaking down into the drywall...

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Thats a very good point.

But STILL i look into my tubs from the front i cannot clearly see a snake as the end of the tubs are opaque and cant see clearly in them.

I would be thankful for not getting thrown out for violating their rules and would gladly pay the 300 deposit,

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Originally Posted by iCandiBallPythons

I would be thankful for not getting thrown out for violating their rules and would gladly pay the 300 deposit,

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Yea but their terms say the deposit is for "small cats and dogs" thats why i never offered up the $300 in the beginning and said i had pets.

I can see where you're coming from , if theyre going to have a pet policy, you would think it should be better worded like "all pets" instead only cats and dogs

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Originally Posted by f4n70m

Yea but their terms say the deposit is for "small cats and dogs" thats why i never offered up the $300 in the beginning and said i had pets.

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Yes get them to clarify this first, cause usually the lease will specifically state pets, but in this case it's cats or dogs. If there isn't a fine print hanging out someone or underlying clause, i would say that the fee is unjust.

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Originally Posted by iCandiBallPythons

I can see where you're coming from , if theyre going to have a pet policy, you would think it should be better worded like "all pets" instead only cats and dogs

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Exactly thats why im so hesitant about paying it as their not "cats or dogs" like the lease states nor do i think other people are paying for their smaller animals like u guys have mentioned like goldfish and such.

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Originally Posted by f4n70m

Thanks for the advise!

And here is my big issue with paying $300 to keep the snakes.

Its a "deposit" to keep a "pet" my snakes are not gonna pee on the carpet and ruin it so it needs replaced. They will not cause damage to the apartment so it needs repairs. But we all know the likelihood of me getting the deposit back even if no damage was done as a result of my snakes is not reasonable.

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I would say just pay the deposit and when/if you move out, then address getting the deposit back due to lack of carpet damage. Raising a stink about reptiles, rodents and fish not being mentioned in the lease may cause changes in the lease agreements to where they are mentioned, as in not allowed...

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Originally Posted by Vypyrz

I would say just pay the deposit and when/if you move out, then address getting the deposit back due to lack of carpet damage. Raising a stink about reptiles, rodents and fish not being mentioned in the lease may cause changes in the lease agreements to where they are mentioned, as in not allowed...

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True well i got a call back. Im supposed to go talk to him at 1:30 so here soon.

Ill let you guys know how it goes.

Alright so when i went to talk to him i brought up the subject that the lease only says cat and dogs. He said it pertains to all "pets" to cause the damage of the property.

So i proceded to ask about fish, hamsters, and such animals he said they are also covered under "pets" but has not had anyone pay for such animals yet :confused::confused::confused:

So i started to talk about how it could not damage the apartment and after 15 mins or so he asked if he could see the way they were being kept. Showed him around and he was actually very interested in them. So then i brought up the subject of the guy looking through my stuff. He said he will check to see who was in the house and look into it.

Needless to say i still had to pay but not what it was before. I ended up paying $50 to cover the possible "smell" my snakes could leave behind to cover the removal of the "smell"

Thats as far as i was willing to negotiate over the issue, tho he is making me add something to my rack to keep them in the apartment ask they could be "potentially dangerous animals" so he informed me i needed to add "lock" type things to the rack to ensure the snake cannot push the tub out on its own and escape. Any ides how i can do this he said there will be a follow up check to ensure i followed what was requested.

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Originally Posted by f4n70m

Alright so when i went to talk to him i brought up the subject that the lease only says cat and dogs. He said it pertains to all "pets" to cause the damage of the property.

So i proceded to ask about fish, hamsters, and such animals he said they are also covered under "pets" but has not had anyone pay for such animals yet :confused::confused::confused:

So i started to talk about how it could not damage the apartment and after 15 mins or so he asked if he could see the way they were being kept. Showed him around and he was actually very interested in them. So then i brought up the subject of the guy looking through my stuff. He said he will check to see who was in the house and look into it.

Needless to say i still had to pay but not what it was before. I ended up paying $50 to cover the possible "smell" my snakes could leave behind to cover the removal of the "smell"

Thats as far as i was willing to negotiate over the issue, tho he is making me add something to my rack to keep them in the apartment ask they could be "potentially dangerous animals" so he informed me i needed to add "lock" type things to the rack to ensure the snake cannot push the tub out on its own and escape. Any ides how i can do this he said there will be a follow up check to ensure i followed what was requested.

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Given how utterly unreasonable some people can be over the keeping of snakes, I think things went really well for you.

One valid concern I would imagine landlords might have is what they would do if one of your snakes (or anyone's) escaped and disappeared into the walls of the building. That risk would warrant a higher deposit, in my opinion. But of course, as a tenant, I would never bring that up myself! :P

Regarding the placement of "locks"...my hubby is the same way with my little rack. It HAD to have some kind of mechanism that would prevent the snakes from pushing their tubs out (which is actually not possible to do..it'd be like trying to pick yourself up by your boot straps...but yeah...whatever :rolleyes: ). I'm not sure what kind of rack system you have, but if you can drill a small hole through the middle of each shelf, you can insert a pin/dowel/fat nail/doodad/whatever in each hole. Depending on how it's set up (and what kind of pin you end up using), they can either block the upper lip of the tub from sliding out...or brace against the bottom of the tub to keep it from sliding. I'm sure you can find something inexpensive at the hardware store that would serve as a suitable pin.

The first rack I made I used the lockup thing you mention.

Here's a pic:

http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/a...g?t=1289850165

http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/a...g?t=1289850372

Don't know the exact english words for what I'm using, but they are used in closets to hold up the metal bar where you hang your shirts and such on. And in stead of metal bars, I used wooden ones from the DIY store.

Hope this helps,

Greets Yaron

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Originally Posted by JLC

Given how utterly unreasonable some people can be over the keeping of snakes, I think things went really well for you.

One valid concern I would imagine landlords might have is what they would do if one of your snakes (or anyone's) escaped and disappeared into the walls of the building. That risk would warrant a higher deposit, in my opinion. But of course, as a tenant, I would never bring that up myself! :P

Regarding the placement of "locks"...my hubby is the same way with my little rack. It HAD to have some kind of mechanism that would prevent the snakes from pushing their tubs out (which is actually not possible to do..it'd be like trying to pick yourself up by your boot straps...but yeah...whatever :rolleyes: ). I'm not sure what kind of rack system you have, but if you can drill a small hole through the middle of each shelf, you can insert a pin/dowel/fat nail/doodad/whatever in each hole. Depending on how it's set up (and what kind of pin you end up using), they can either block the upper lip of the tub from sliding out...or brace against the bottom of the tub to keep it from sliding. I'm sure you can find something inexpensive at the hardware store that would serve as a suitable pin.

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Ah good idea.

Yea i was wondering how a snake could push the tub out that hes in o.O

i guess if there was a gap maybe but the tub sits a good half inch away from from the front of the shelf so he cant wedge himself in a crack and push lol.

Tho he did tell me that if i have any escapes it would be bad for me and future snake keepers. Not quite sure what he meant by that so i just let it go lol

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Originally Posted by Ntume

The first rack I made I used the lockup thing you mention.

Here's a pic:

http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/a...g?t=1289850165

http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/a...g?t=1289850372

Don't know the exact english words for what I'm using, but they are used in closets to hold up the metal bar where you hang your shirts and such on. And in stead of metal bars, I used wooden ones from the DIY store.

Hope this helps,

Greets Yaron

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Now thats pretty neat. Iv seen bars going from top to bottom on the bigger racks to secure the whole thing. But side to side is new to me :) Good way to think outside the box. :)

Here's some pics of mine...

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x.../bolt-hole.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x...lt-in-hole.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x.../misc/bolt.jpg

The bolt is just a little plastic thing that doesn't weigh even a gram. LOL The upside is that if your bolts are in place, then you're SURE the tubs are fully closed. You're right that if there IS a gap, then these little Houdini's will get their noses in it and push it the rest of the way.

Hi,

I use those little plastic corner blocks meant for strengthening units.

http://satanswombat.googlepages.com/colubridrack4.jpg


dr del

Well, I'm glad it turned out ok in the end and you didn't have to pay much. :) At my last apt in CO, the manager when we moved in had no problem at all with the snakes and no deposit was required. But the manager that took over was terrified of snakes and therefore demanded the $300 deposit when we renewed our lease because she was "afraid the snakes would get into the plumbing" and other nonsense like that. We were pissed, but payed the money without much fuss because we really liked the complex and the people there. I was the 'Snake Lady' to everyone. :D So I understand your issue.
As for the privacy invasion... it is likely that they were checking the walls and ceilings for water damage, especially if you live on a lower floor, and the closets are one place they look. And if a snake was moving against the front of the tub at just that moment it would have been noticed.

Now then, I must add this: It is really Not a good idea when living in apartments to try and 'hide' your reptiles. Obviously, we have seen that they can be discovered by maintenance, another tenant can overhear you talking about them, etc.
The best way to handle reptiles and apartments is to state that you have 'caged animals' when searching for an apartment. If they ask for clarification, you can say reptiles, then small harmless snakes if they ask further (unless you keep boas :D). Usually, they will make their position clear to you then; i.e. the reptiles are fine as long as they're in secure cages, or they refuse to allow snakes at all, or you'll need to still pay a deposit in case they get out. This way, you can choose a complex that will be ok with your pets, everything is sorted out and down in writing, and there is no confusion or need to hide your animals.
The place we just moved into said that, since my cages are all locked and the snakes never allowed to roam free, they aren't subject to the deposit and aren't 'pets' under the lease terms. I've just been advised not to carry them around outside. :D And I have no problems with that.

So, bottom line here: make sure you know what you're getting into pet wise in any apartment complex you're looking at BEFORE signing that lease. It's safer and less stressful all around. :D

I was renting a condo and they had pet deposit as well. But, just like you said, it specified cats and dogs. I had fish, hamster, and an african gray parrot. I told them about them all and they said, they're fine, no need for deposit! Not even the bird!