Is this a Fire

Ok me and a buddy of mine have been debating if this is a Fire or not. What do you guys think is it a Fire or not? If it isn't a Fire then what is it?

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s...2/DSC_0012.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s...2/DSC_0013.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s...2/DSC_0014.jpg

what was it purchased as.... If you hatched it what are the genetics...looks like one to me but fires are a hard one to do in photo....

He was purchased in a large lot of non normals. That's all I know about him.

reduced patterned normal. fires look different. its nice thou
here is my breeder
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k8...s/DSC00722.jpg

Thanks for the input but I know 100% it's not a normal.

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Originally Posted by meeistom

Thanks for the input but I know 100% it's not a normal.

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Just trying to help u out, my thoughts on any snake is that its normal till u prove it out as being somthing different. If i had that snake and i was trying to sell it i def wouldnt call it ne thing else but a normal.

It looks like a normal reduced pattern snake as was said, its not a fire.

If it was a fire it would look something like this as a hatchling
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/a...l/PICT1490.jpg
and grow up looking like this...
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/a...l/SDC10013.jpg

And then fade out to look like the killer adult that Irishanancondas has.

Beautiful normal, but just that, normal.
Might be a dinker, breed and see if the traits pass on.

Not a fire, very sorry.

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Originally Posted by meeistom

Thanks for the input but I know 100% it's not a normal.

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Not to be a downer, but there is such a range with normals its definitely possible its just a really pretty normal. It would make a great dinker though. :gj:

Finally got a response from the breeder and it is in fact a Fire it's been confirmed it for me. He is from a Fire female and a BEL male so there is no chance a normal was produced in the clutch. Thanks everyone for your input.

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Originally Posted by meeistom

Got a response from the breeder and it is in fact a Fire he confirmed it for me. He is from a Fire female and a BEL male. Thanks everyone.

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Trustworthy breeder? Maybe you're right, but it's not the best example of the morph then.:oops:

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Originally Posted by meeistom

He was purchased in a large lot of non normals. That's all I know about him.

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...... well either way good luck

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Finally got a response from the breeder and it is in fact a Fire it's been confirmed it for me. He is from a Fire female and a BEL male so there is no chance a normal was produced in the clutch. Thanks everyone for your input.

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If the sire was a BEL, then it would have to be one form of a het BEL, right?

I'm not sure about the look of all of the many forms of "het BEL's," but it is not a Lesser, Mojo, or Butter.

In order to be a fire it would have to be a Double Mutation animal, carrying both a het BEL gene as well as the Fire gene, and he does not appear to be that animal.

What did the breeder verify him as?

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Originally Posted by rjk890

If the sire was a BEL, then it would have to be one form of a het BEL, right?

I'm not sure about the look of all of the many forms of "het BEL's," but it is not a Lesser, Mojo, or Butter.

In order to be a fire it would have to be a Double Mutation animal, carrying both a het BEL gene as well as the Fire gene, and he does not appear to be that animal.

What did the breeder verify him as?

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Fire is a single gene co-Dom
Fire gene is "het" for BEL black eyes Lucy
hope this helps

the pics are hard to tell from the lighting....however i'm not really seeing fire though.

on another note not all fires look the same....there's good examples and poor examples. the only way to be sure would be to breed it out.

here's what my fire looks like.....


Pitoon

http://www.unitedherps.com/images/Co...Pics/Fire1.JPG

B grade fire at best... Here's mine
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...s/Firedone.jpg

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Originally Posted by meeistom

He was purchased in a large lot of non normals. That's all I know about him.

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So the breeder threw in a fire with a large lot of normals for what reason?

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Originally Posted by rjk890

If the sire was a BEL, then it would have to be one form of a het BEL, right?

I'm not sure about the look of all of the many forms of "het BEL's," but it is not a Lesser, Mojo, or Butter.

In order to be a fire it would have to be a Double Mutation animal, carrying both a het BEL gene as well as the Fire gene, and he does not appear to be that animal.

What did the breeder verify him as?

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Not hugely relevant to the conversation, but it seems that BEL is a bad abbreviation to use for a lucy as the words "blue" and "black" both start with "B." :P So, really, both blue-eyed leucistics and black-eyed leucistics could be referred to as BELs.

It does seem to be more commonly used to refer to the blue-eyes, but no reason why it couldn't be short for black-eyed leucistic as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by meeistom

Finally got a response from the breeder and it is in fact a Fire it's been confirmed it for me. He is from a Fire female and a BEL male so there is no chance a normal was produced in the clutch. Thanks everyone for your input.

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Maybe I'm not getting this right. But if you bought a lot of animals and the mother was a fire, and the father was a BEL.... then the whole lot would have been fires. A super fire (BEL) would throw ALL fires.

I'm no spector expert, but it looks like a spector to me. I could be way off, but it doesn't look at all like a fire... more like a spector or whirlwind.

The entire lot was various morphs there was not a single normal in it. The breeder thought he could breed a whole bunch of morphs and make some quick cash. Well he found that caring for over 300 hatchlings was too much for him to handle so me and a few others bought out all of them.
This guy was only one we could not agree what morph he was. Sent numerous emails to the breeder over the course of the last week but he never got back to me. My friend went to his place yesterday to buy some of the adults and told the breeder to contact me. He finally did. I gave him the info off his feeding card and he confirmed the morph and parents.

BEL = Black Eyed Lucy sorry if I confused anyone

Alot of times to avoid the confusion, Ive seen people use:
BEL= Blue eyed lucy
BLKEL=black eyed lucy.


My .02 Doesnt look like a fire to me. I'm by no means an expert, but I have my own and spent alot of time researching them to make sure I knew what I was looking at.
COuld be that it is and it just looks different, could be that a breeder with too much to handle got alittle confused on what he bagged up.

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Originally Posted by PassionsPythons

I'm no spector expert, but it looks like a spector to me. I could be way off, but it doesn't look at all like a fire... more like a spector or whirlwind.

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Definitely looks more specter than fire, if anything other than normal.

Just curious, what other morphs were in the lot? There are a lot of folks still selling lots of special bush babies.

Doesn't look fire to me, but it's a fine normal.

Once you've seen a lot of normals as babies and adults, you know what a non-normal morph looks like. It looks like a very nice reduced normal.

I would be hesitant to start breeding it and calling it a fire until its bred out to prove it.

Just my .02 cents, you could get burned if you can't prove it's a fire until bred, and sell to someone when it's not.

Having seen the parents of the snakes that were purchased and the breeding records and the siblings he is not a normal. I showed him in person to a local breeder and he does breed fires and he also agreed it's a fire not a great example of one but it is. No I didn't tell him what I thought it might be I simply asked what he thought it is and he said a fire not a good fire but it has the right head pattern, and the right color. The picture does not do his bright yellow on jet black coloration justice. His siblings are much better examples of the morph.
The lot had albino, pastel, yellow belly, ivory, fire, black eyed lucy, blue eyed lucy, mojave, spider, bee, super pastel, genetic stripes, ghost, pastave, and a few more that I can't remember. Mostly dom's and co dom's with double's as well. Nothing too crazy. I only got part of the group the 316 snakes were split between 5 people. I personally only got 32 snakes of the group. All of mine are co dom morphs.

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Originally Posted by Shadera

Just curious, what other morphs were in the lot? There are a lot of folks still selling lots of special bush babies.

Doesn't look fire to me, but it's a fine normal.

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dinkerrrr - normal

if it was a fire female and a bel male there would be no single fire gene unless it was a black eyed

Yes there would, fire to BEL makes Fires and Bel's no normals.