dreamsicle market price

So I know double recessives are kind of rare since the odds of hitting both genes are pretty slim.but what is a fair market price for a dreamsicle? I'm just looking for a ballpark figure....

I think I heard they are about $20,000!

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Originally Posted by RhacHead

So I know double recessives are kind of rare since the odds of hitting both genes are pretty slim.but what is a fair market price for a dreamsicle? I'm just looking for a ballpark figure....

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There has to be one available for sale for their to be a market price. As far as I know the only people with them is Ralph and Justin.

Dont sit around trying to get your dreamsicle by buying one, likely you wont have the money. Get a Lavander Albino and a Pied. Breed the male offspring to the mother, take the hom (mother's trait) males, breed them to the females of the first generation.

Essentially it works like this (mother is the pied, I guess):
Lav x Pied
100% Double Hets (keep at least one male and all females)

Double Het x Pied
50% Pied 50% poss het lav (keep your males)
50% 50% poss double het

Pied 50% poss het Lav x Double Het
If it's Het Lav:
12.5% Dreamsicle
37.5% Pied 66% Poss Het Lav
12.5% Het Pied Lav
37.5% Het Pied 66% Poss Het Lav

If it isnt Het Lav:
50% Pied 50% poss Het Lav
50% Het Pied 50% poss Het Lav

Please, anyone correct me if my numbers are off.

Anyway, pair each Pied 50% poss Het Lav male with one of the Double Het females from the first gen

Possibly the highest likelihood in the lowest time span.

If you bred 2 double hets together:
6.25% Dreamsicles
18.75% Pied 66% poss Het Lav
18.75% Lav 66% poss Het Pied
56.25% 66% poss double hets

Sorry, making too many assumptions, now that i think about it you may not actually even be intending to get one, haha, sorry, but hopefully this is helpful.

You'd have to call RDR to get an estimate--he's the only breeder with enough dreamsicles to be interested in selling, so he gets to set the price. And I imagine he'd set it pretty high. Even if he had any competition, there's few enough of them, and enough demand, that I'd expect to pay at least $20,000.

So even with the still-staggering prices of lavender albinos, I gotta second the vote: if you really want one, buy the ingredients and make your own. :snake::snake:

Thanks for the replys guys.I'm not rteally a pied fan (don't hit me) but I wouldn't mind a LA! my friend who grew up with a larger east coast BP breeder told me a price he could get a Dreamsicle for and I thought it was really low for a double recessive.He told me the guy would take very good care of him if he wanted some BP's.Still more than I could afford but considerably less than the $20K price tag.

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Originally Posted by RhacHead

.Still more than I could afford but considerably less than the $20K price tag.

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Sorry, I am not buying that anyone would sell one for much less that 20k. The only source is Ralph and I can't see him selling them cheap.

Considering Roussis Reptiles is selling their regular Albino Pieds at 25k, I say you would be looking at around $40,000 or higher for the Dreamsicle

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Originally Posted by seeya205

I think I heard they are about $20,000!

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$20K? HAH! "Normal" Albino Piebalds are advertised for that and they're easily worth $15,000.

The market price would depend on sex and how old it is, a hatchling Male I would estimate at $40,000, a breeding male a few months old is worth at least $60,000.

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Originally Posted by pfan151

Sorry, I am not buying that anyone would sell one for much less that 20k. The only source is Ralph and I can't see him selling them cheap.

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Its not Ralph but this guy has over 400 BP's and just hatched some out recently.I'm just going off what my friend told me but he's a pretty straight up guy so I don't think he's BS'in. Either way I can't afford the still high pricetag and my next purchase is going to be a Desert or a Clown.

I agree with the post of 40,000...No way anyone will sell for 20k...And as mentioned from others your best bet is trying o make them or throw out some serious $$$$$....

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Originally Posted by pfan151

Sorry, I am not buying that anyone would sell one for much less that 20k. The only source is Ralph and I can't see him selling them cheap.

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Ralphie is no longer the only source for Dreamsicles, Justin Kobylka produced a male last year, and he is hard at work this year so chances are Justin might have a few more up his sleeve. Not sure of the females he put him too, but I am sure he has some adult double hets laying around.:gj:

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Originally Posted by PrototypePythons

Ralphie is no longer the only source for Dreamsicles, Justin Kobylka produced a male last year, and he is hard at work this year so chances are Justin might have a few more up his sleeve. Not sure of the females he put him too, but I am sure he has some adult double hets laying around.:gj:

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Yep he currently has at least 1 clutch in the incubator from Dbl Het. x Dbl Het.:

http://www.jkobylkareptiles.com/incu...m=00009&y=2010

Here is the link to the clutch where he hatched out a male last year:
http://www.jkobylkareptiles.com/incu...hp?y=2009&c=47

It's not just the fact that a dreamsickle is a doube-recessive (a 1-64 odds!); I'ts also that a Lav by itself os still a 5K snake. Very similar to a Banana (Coral Glow), CHampaigne, etc. I would say 20K is a steal for a male.

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Originally Posted by brian abrams

It's not just the fact that a dreamsickle is a doube-recessive (a 1-64 odds!); I'ts also that a Lav by itself os still a 5K snake. Very similar to a Banana (Coral Glow), CHampaigne, etc. I would say 20K is a steal for a male.

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The odds are 1/16 breeding double het dreamsicles together to get a homozygous dreamsicle.

Yeah, the $40K price is more in line with the market value right now, from what I've been told.

Justin and Ralph are the only two that I am personally aware of having any.

Why not name the other guy, Rhac?

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Originally Posted by Zach Nasty

The odds are 1/16 breeding double het dreamsicles together to get a homozygous dreamsicle.

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Yeah. 1:64 are the odds on a triple het to triple het breeding, like a dreamsicle snow or dreamsicle ghost.

I think Kobylka will probably provide competition in the next couple years, but I doubt he's selling his pride and joy this year. So right now it's all RDR.

In fact, there are so few who are even in sight of making a dreamsicle that I have a hard time believing some random guy could pull one out of a box in a back alley and sell it on the cheap. It's a five year project, minimum--the double het males are stupidly expensive. I'm not sure I've even SEEN a double het female for sale.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Yeah, the $40K price is more in line with the market value right now, from what I've been told.

Justin and Ralph are the only two that I am personally aware of having any.

Why not name the other guy, Rhac?

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Maybe they've confused it with a Albino Piebald? That's more likely, a cheap (say $7-8K) Albino Piebald, though disheartening, isn't unlikely. I imagine that $7-8K is what they would "wholesale" for.

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Originally Posted by loonunit

In fact, there are so few who are even in sight of making a dreamsicle that I have a hard time believing some random guy could pull one out of a box in a back alley and sell it on the cheap. It's a five year project, minimum--the double het males are stupidly expensive. I'm not sure I've even SEEN a double het female for sale.

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2 years for the first female, 2 for females from it's clutch, plus gestation period.

Not really a 5 year project, if you push it. If.

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Originally Posted by Oxylepy

2 years for the first female, 2 for females from it's clutch, plus gestation period.

Not really a 5 year project, if you push it. If.

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And if you get lucky, right? First you get lucky if the first female gets big enough to breed at 2; then you get lucky if she doesn't slug out and has female offspring; then you get lucky if they get big enough to breed at 2, and don't slug out; and then at the end you're still looking at 1:16 per egg.

Plus lavender albinos still ain't cheap. So if you start with a het instead--which is a more realistic option for small-time breeders like me--then you're either spending an extra two years going for a visual lavender, or you've got a bunch of pos hets that may or may not prove out.

Did Justin ever say how long it took him?

Didnt you read my prior post 9my first one, that says breed het offspring back to mom, then breed the male visuals from that back to the females of the first generation of snakes)? You will greatly increase your chances, and if you dont produce the visuals you can keep your double het male. If, of course, you produce the correct snakes.

And, yes, a lot of breeding is luck. It's all a game of dice and you're betting that resources will be ready and that those resources will turn up a few diamonds.

Ugh, that's kind of a lot of inbreeding.

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Originally Posted by loonunit

Ugh, that's kind of a lot of inbreeding.

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Not extremely, if you consider the whole 13 generations of inbreeding with little negative effect (remember hearing this around here). Alternatively you could invest in multiple female pieds, use those, and then breed accordingly, then breed back to the females from the f1 generation.

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Originally Posted by loonunit

Did Justin ever say how long it took him?

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Justin has a secret stash of luck because it only took him roughly 3-4 years I believe, and he hit on it the first try.

Man hatches out Pastel Piebalds on accident, then discovers a 3rd gene involved with his Yellow Belly Piebalds, then he hatches out a Dream on the first try, and so far this year he hatched out Honey Bees on accident. Saying the dude is Blessed is an understatement.

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Originally Posted by PrototypePythons

Ralphie is no longer the only source for Dreamsicles, Justin Kobylka produced a male last year, and he is hard at work this year so chances are Justin might have a few more up his sleeve. Not sure of the females he put him too, but I am sure he has some adult double hets laying around.:gj:

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I know Justin produced one last year, but I still think Ralph may be the only one with them available for sale right now. Maybe Justin will post if he has produced any more since the first one or if that male was able to breed in its first season. If his visual male didn't breed it's still kind of a longshot to produce another one with double hets but with Justin's luck he'll probably hit 6 of them. But who knows. I am sure it is possible that one of the more secretive breeders has a few by now.

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Originally Posted by AaronP

Justin has a secret stash of luck because it only took him roughly 3-4 years I believe, and he hit on it the first try.

Man hatches out Pastel Piebalds on accident, then discovers a 3rd gene involved with his Yellow Belly Piebalds, then he hatches out a Dream on the first try, and so far this year he hatched out Honey Bees on accident. Saying the dude is Blessed is an understatement.

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I was just going to ask if anybody had seen the honey bees this week. Spider-to-normal pairing, no less!

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Originally Posted by pfan151

I know Justin produced one last year, but I still think Ralph may be the only one with them available for sale right now. Maybe Justin will post if he has produced any more since the first one or if that male was able to breed in its first season. If his visual male didn't breed it's still kind of a longshot to produce another one with double hets but with Justin's luck he'll probably hit 6 of them. But who knows. I am sure it is possible that one of the more secretive breeders has a few by now.

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So far I've only produced the one Dreamsicle. He did see a couple of girls late this season, but they were backed up with other males, so there is no guarantee for anything better than 1:16 again this year. Seems like whenever a younger male is bred along with a proven stud, the offspring comes from the proven breeder.

I been very fortunate over the past few seasons! Other than the Honeybees (huge surprise!), my odds have not be extraordinary this season... didn't get any Ivories from Pastel YB x YB.

Hopefully I'm saving up my good fortune for some of the really cool stuff in Sept / October!

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Originally Posted by AaronP

Justin has a secret stash of luck because it only took him roughly 3-4 years I believe, and he hit on it the first try.

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3 years waiting for pied to grow up before I bought an adult Lavender male. Then switched my plans and sent my Lav to Peter Kahl on loan to produce my Dbl Het Dreams. I was very fortunate to get my female dbl het Dream to produce at 24 months and then hit the odds on 6 eggs. All in all I working toward the project for a full 5 years could easily have been more with poor odds or if the female Dbl Het had required the full 3 years.


Justin

I have 07 double het pair...im willing to trade for a kidney if anyones interested.:gj:

In all reality though, I cant wait until I have a baby dream in one of my tubs!

It is 2014 and what is the current price on Dreamsicles? :) I can't find one that is for sale.

No one?

Ive seen them easily go for 12k+