Day 58

Its day 58 for my first clutch!!

I was wondering, how do you know if its too early to pip them yourselves? Friday I planned on doing this, should I not? How do you know if its NOT a good idea?

Lemme know!

If your incubation temps and humidity were correct then you should be fine to cut today. I cut my first clutch this year at day 52 with an 89-90 degree incubation temp. All the babies are out and healthy.

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Originally Posted by Animals As Leaders

Its day 58 for my first clutch!!

I was wondering, how do you know if its too early to pip them yourselves? Friday I planned on doing this, should I not? How do you know if its NOT a good idea?

Lemme know!

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wait till the pip or cut in 2 days. you can cut today if you want. its really up to you

I CAN CUT TODAY?!?!?!?!

OMG!! :taz::taz::taz::taz:

I don't know if I want to though, just because I am paranoid. I am going to post a vid that I am putting up on my youtube account. I just want you guys to see them before I do anything. Thanks so much!

YouTube - Ball Python Eggs/Incubator (quick video)

Its still being processed, so quality isn't great yet...

After watching do you guys still think everything is cool?

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Originally Posted by PassionsPythons

If your incubation temps and humidity were correct then you should be fine to cut today. I cut my first clutch this year at day 52 with an 89-90 degree incubation temp. All the babies are out and healthy.

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I agree with this... As long as your temps have been good and you are really on day 58 you will be fine to cut.

What was the pairing?

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Originally Posted by JasonG

I agree with this... As long as your temps have been good and you are really on day 58 you will be fine to cut.

What was the pairing?

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Woooo HOOO!!! lol

Sorry, very excited this is my first breeding season so I'm souped!!

But I bred my pastel to a few of my normals, so I'm hoping for a bunch of pastel babies :)

good luck on the pastels.

Thanks man, hoping for some females so in a few years I can pop out some supers!!

CUT EM'!!!...LOL...

Post a vid to...lol...Congrats, :banana: and here's to a bunch of Pastels ..:banana:

I agree with the others - if you are on day 58 and everything has been ok so far you can cut them.

I still remember my first clutch, I was so nervous and excited at the same time I barely could hold the razor straight...

You need a firm grip and a steady hand! :psychotic:

Haha thanks man!

I will make a vid of me cutting them so you can hear my excitement when I see what they are. Hopefully you'll see me scream like a little school girl lol

they look good in the video. Let us know how it goes.

Justin

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Originally Posted by jkobylka

they look good in the video. Let us know how it goes.

Justin

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Thanks! Will do, btw awesome videos dude big fan!

I cut em'!

Unfortunately I had a deformed baby, and it was a pastel...

But!

I got 3 pastels, and 2 normals!! :banana:

Uploading vid to youtube as we speak, so when its done I'll post it asap!

Congrats bro! I wish your babies the best!

Screaming like a little schoolgirl, even giggling, is a common thing when cutting BP eggs. Another strange thing is that you can find people either staring with big eyes on the just cut eggs or standing with their hands in the air doing a silly dance. Relax - it's all normal!

Congrats on your clutch once again!

Grats mate! :D

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Originally Posted by Animals As Leaders

I cut em'!

Unfortunately I had a deformed baby, and it was a pastel...

But!

I got 3 pastels, and 2 normals!! :banana:

Uploading vid to youtube as we speak, so when its done I'll post it asap!

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Congrats! Was the deformed baby from the wet egg?

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Congrats! Was the deformed baby from the wet egg?

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Yes it was!!

What exactly does the wetness cause?

Btw everyone, I couldn't upload my video to youtube because it was too long. So I took some pics instead :D

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/...n/101_0627.jpg

THIS GUY HAS SOME KIND OF MASS IN HIS EGG IS THIS NORMAL? THE WHITE THING PICTURED THERE IS WHAT I AM REFERRING TO.
http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/...n/101_0628.jpg

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/...n/101_0629.jpg

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/...n/101_0630.jpg

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/...n/101_0631.jpg

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/...n/101_0632.jpg

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/...n/101_0633.jpg

I made a video on the deformed baby...

YouTube - Deformed pastel ball python

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THIS GUY HAS SOME KIND OF MASS IN HIS EGG IS THIS NORMAL? THE WHITE THING PICTURED THERE IS WHAT I AM REFERRING TO.

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That looks like the yolk sac. Derek (Dr. Del) pointed out that it looks like the the snake might have the umbilicus wrapped around it. Is that hatchling moving around okay and does it look smaller than the others? You may need to untangle it if it is.

congrats bro.....great job :gj:

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Originally Posted by xdeus

That looks like the yolk sac. Derek (Dr. Del) pointed out that it looks like the the snake might have the umbilicus wrapped around it. Is that hatchling moving around okay and does it look smaller than the others? You may need to untangle it if it is.

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uh oh....

I read about this lol

He is a little smaller then the rest...How do I know if it is tangled, and how do I untangle it?

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Originally Posted by Animals As Leaders

uh oh....

I read about this lol

He is a little smaller then the rest...How do I know if it is tangled, and how do I untangle it?

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Yikes, hopefully someone with experience will chime in as I have never needed to do it. I believe you will need to remove the snake from the egg to untangle it and place it and the yolk sac on a wet paper towel (in a rack cage) until it can absorb the rest.

Hmmm...Sounds interesting lol

Had to be on the first clutch I ever hatched right ?? lol

Thanks for letting me know, I appreciate it! Hopefully someone will chime in later on...

so sorry about the little guy that didnt make it aww how r the rest of them

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Originally Posted by JEWSKIN

so sorry about the little guy that didnt make it aww how r the rest of them

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Yeah it sucks...It happens though. :disbelief

The rest are just hanging out in there egg, and seem fine.

Someone pointed out my one might be wrapped up in its umbilical, so I might have to do something about that. But otherwise couldn't be happier, good odds, and only one didn't make it so I'm happy with my results. Just hoping for some pastel females so I can make some supers in the years to come!

im antsy about mine i cant wait ugh it hasnt even been 30 days and im just dying to see em lol ive never really been into morphs until here lol wow is all i can say

The one definitely looks to be wrapped in it's umbilical. You may have to try to remove that snake and untangle if it does not start absorbing some of that yolk.
I think you may have been a little too aggressive on the cutting. You really don't need to totally cut a big piece off like that. Just a slit is the best way to go. Good luck.

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Originally Posted by pfan151

The one definitely looks to be wrapped in it's umbilical. You may have to try to remove that snake and untangle if it does not start absorbing some of that yolk.
I think you may have been a little too aggressive on the cutting. You really don't need to totally cut a big piece off like that. Just a slit is the best way to go. Good luck.

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Agreed - I cut a V shape in my eggs, just enough to allow the animal some air and to peek in and see what I've got. I then pretty much lay it back down over the animal.

You definitely have a wrapped umbilicus... fourth pic to the left of the blood vessels you can see it. (have had 3 myself).

I would not advise popping him out of the egg... do a search on "hardbelly" on the forum.

I untangled one this seaon that was near the head, by simply nudging the snakes nose, and she retreated to the other side.

But it looks like this one may be further down the body.

And it looks like a tight one too... I have been told that it is possible to untagleh in the egg, but I do not know how. yet I have seen it done in retic videos. And in those cases the snakes were removed from the egg and then popped back in.

So not entirely sure to what degree you can remove them, but personally I would not do it. Again, that is just me.

You can tie the umbilicus off with dental floss, and then cut it (messy). You have to then sop up the blood before it gets mixed in the yolk and then scoop off the top layer of scum. (Qtips work great for quickly absorbing the blood).

Your priority may then be getting a meal into him sooner then the others, but I have talked to one breeder that simply cuts the cord and waits till the first shed. Offers food sooner, but says they can do fine, skinnier, but will do OK.

Again, that part is heresay.

I had to cut 3 and lost two.

First snake I lost to hardbelly. I removed her from the egg.

Second snake, was kinked, so I had to put her down. The cutting was not relevant, but I euthanized her prior to her first meal.

Third snake, I cut, and waited till his first shed. I did assist him at the time the others were taking their first meal.

Hope this helps a bit? Research any key points so you are making an informed decision, and treat this simply as hearsay.

Good luck!
Bruce

PS: if anyone can clarify, add to, or disspell anything I said, feel free. :)

addendum... q tips works great for that bit o blood you get when you cut or slit... and getting rid of the blood keeps the yolk from browning out (coagulated blood).

Good info in this thread...good luck with the babies, espeically the little one in trouble. Let us know how it goes...

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Originally Posted by Bruce Whitehead

I would not advise popping him out of the egg... do a search on "hardbelly" on the forum.

So not entirely sure to what degree you can remove them, but personally I would not do it. Again, that is just me.

You can tie the umbilicus off with dental floss, and then cut it (messy). You have to then sop up the blood before it gets mixed in the yolk and then scoop off the top layer of scum. (Qtips work great for quickly absorbing the blood).

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Bruce gave some very insightful information. I quoted Bruce (not his whole post, but what I wanted to comment on).

As Bruce stated, the snake wrapped in the umbilicus definitely looks bad. Hopefully the snake is not dead yet, but it is a possibility. While Bruce does not recommend removing the snake from the egg, I would definitely recommend it, and here is why. It is important to remember that if the animal has not poked it's head up and begun breathing, then that means that it is receiving any oxygen from the blood vessels that are attached to it via the umbilicus. If the umbilicus is restricting blood flow to the animal, it could die, and hence why I stated that it may already be deceased. With that said, I would not tie off the umbilicus and cut it yet.

Here is what I would recommend, and what I personally would do. I believe step one is to remove the animal from the egg, so that it's head is in open air, and it can begin breathing. Once you see the tongue start flicking, it is breathing. I think that some hatchlings can stick there head out and begin breathing, but can then submerge it's head back into the fluid in the egg because it is still receiving oxygen via the blood vessels. After you see that it is breathing, then begin to try getting the umbilicus untangled. If you get it untangled, attempt to put the animal back in the egg. If that does not work, then put it in a very tight fitting container lined with very moist paper towels, and watch it's progress with absorbing yolk.

If you cannot get the umbilicus untangled, then tie off the umbilicus with dental floss, and cut it off between the tie and the yolk. This will keep the animal from losing too much blood. Back to Bruce's post. If you cut the umbilicus before the snake emerges from the egg, and it has not started breathing on it's own, it will surely die in the egg.

I hope that was helpful, and gives you a better chance of success in saving this baby. I wish I could give you a better description of how to untangle the umbilicus, but it is complicated, based on how the umbilicus is twisted, wrapped and/or tied around the animal. Let your eyes be the guide. It is just like trying to untie a knot in a rope. Please keep us informed on how everything went, and good luck with the "procedure".

Hope that helps,

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Originally Posted by muddoc

Bruce gave some very insightful information. I quoted Bruce (not his whole post, but what I wanted to comment on).

As Bruce stated, the snake wrapped in the umbilicus definitely looks bad. Hopefully the snake is not dead yet, but it is a possibility. While Bruce does not recommend removing the snake from the egg, I would definitely recommend it, and here is why. It is important to remember that if the animal has not poked it's head up and begun breathing, then that means that it is receiving any oxygen from the blood vessels that are attached to it via the umbilicus. If the umbilicus is restricting blood flow to the animal, it could die, and hence why I stated that it may already be deceased. With that said, I would not tie off the umbilicus and cut it yet.

Here is what I would recommend, and what I personally would do. I believe step one is to remove the animal from the egg, so that it's head is in open air, and it can begin breathing. Once you see the tongue start flicking, it is breathing. I think that some hatchlings can stick there head out and begin breathing, but can then submerge it's head back into the fluid in the egg because it is still receiving oxygen via the blood vessels. After you see that it is breathing, then begin to try getting the umbilicus untangled. If you get it untangled, attempt to put the animal back in the egg. If that does not work, then put it in a very tight fitting container lined with very moist paper towels, and watch it's progress with absorbing yolk.

If you cannot get the umbilicus untangled, then tie off the umbilicus with dental floss, and cut it off between the tie and the yolk. This will keep the animal from losing too much blood. Back to Bruce's post. If you cut the umbilicus before the snake emerges from the egg, and it has not started breathing on it's own, it will surely die in the egg.

I hope that was helpful, and gives you a better chance of success in saving this baby. I wish I could give you a better description of how to untangle the umbilicus, but it is complicated, based on how the umbilicus is twisted, wrapped and/or tied around the animal. Let your eyes be the guide. It is just like trying to untie a knot in a rope. Please keep us informed on how everything went, and good luck with the "procedure".

Hope that helps,

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Ohh man...

Do I pour the rest of the yolk from the egg into the container if I can't get him back in? Or do I just put him in the container?

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Originally Posted by Animals As Leaders

Ohh man...

Do I pour the rest of the yolk from the egg into the container if I can't get him back in? Or do I just put him in the container?

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Just put him in the container. The "clear" stuff is probably dirty and filthy now and other than keeping him moist (which your wet paper towels will do), I wouldn't tranfer it to a more clean environment.

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/...n/101_0634.jpg

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/...n/101_0635.jpg

Alright that was very, very scary!!

Why did this happen to me my first time! Not fair!

Taking him out of that egg was so tough because the huge egg sac next to him. Why was his so big, it seemed a lot bigger then the rest? Anyway, I was able to remove him. I had him laid out on my hands and he wasn't moving I thought that he died while I removed him, but he started moving around. So I coiled him back into his egg. The chord was stretched out when I had him out and just coiled him on top of it. I haven't seen him flick his tongue but he is moving and it seems like he's breathing. His body moves up and down. I can't tell though...All I know is that I am really nervous and hope I did it right. Let me know guys.

Also, I want to say THANK YOU SOO MUCH for really trying and helping me through this! You guys really are taking time out of your day to help me, and if you only knew how much I appreciate it! Thanks sooooo much!

Well, he died...

I went back down to check on him, and he's not moving or breathing. I kinda wish I left him alone because he was moving before I touched him, and now he's not. I'm wondering if its better to just leave them alone when something like this happens, because he died 10 min after I messed with him. He was moving around in the egg prior to this so who knows...Just sucks :(

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Originally Posted by Animals As Leaders

Well, he died...

I went back down to check on him, and he's not moving or breathing. I kinda wish I left him alone because he was moving before I touched him, and now he's not. I'm wondering if its better to just leave them alone when something like this happens, because he died 10 min after I messed with him. He was moving around in the egg prior to this so who knows...Just sucks :(

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dont sweat it man it happens to us all. you did what you could to save him thats all that matters. It always sucks loosing a snake but it is what it is. Thats nature for ya. :gj:

He was likely already so fragile that he was not going to make it.

I do not think your sac was bigger, it just was not absorbed. Everytime I have had a twisted cord that sac has been the dead give away. |

Want to thank Tim for the clarifications, and note that my guy that has survived already had his head out of the egg when I cut the cord. The one good thing about threads like this is the chance for further clarifications and learning.

Sorry you lost the hatchling, but this is part of breeding animals. :(

Does not make it easier, but it is the reality of it. But he did teach some valuable information.

Sincerely, bruce

Thanks Bruce, your totally right. I was beating myself a lot for it. I then started thinking this is some of the territory that comes with breeding animals like you said. It sucks, but you learn from it. He was beautiful, he had a reduced pattern towards the lower half of his body. Like a black back look :(

When I removed him from the egg he was so small...I knew if he did make it he would need some special attention. Now in terms of the yolk sac, other then the size, what is the give away? I don't really get what your saying there. The egg he was in had a big dent in it as well. I don't know if that had something to do with it. Also, my other egg with the deformed baby had some water damage how does that effect the inside of the egg, and what happens exactly?

Now, are the others one ok looking? There is some brownish stuff in there with them which I'm assuming is blood. Theres also a film thing around them all. I noticed when I was removing the other guy from the egg there was like a thin wall of nastiness lol. I just don't wanna lose anymore...

I started a newer current thread which can be found here

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...35#post1387935

For dead give away it is just the way the sac kind of floats up and off to the side like that, not sure why, perhaps it is the sac detaching from the egg in preparation of being absorbed, not really sure.

But it starts looking like it is filling the egg. Whereas the other ones are asborbing as this happens, so you never really see the sacs prominently.

And that film is mostly bacteria and blood. Your cuts were too big. That shell is there for a reason and little slits are best. Same with the film, once you do cut you should be misting with water daily to keep the yolk hydrated. I keep a small bottle of water in the incubator for that purpose.

As soon as you open the eggs you get bacterial growth, and if they sit in the egg for a long time then eventually they are just marinating in a bacterial soup. Sorry for the reference, but that is the best way to describe it.

I say this as a reformed cutter.

Bruce

Well I don't want a bacterial soup Bruce lol

What do I do? Is this going to cause any problems?

I'm going to go mist it right now, is there anything else I should be doing/looking out for?

Just skim the muck off the top, and keep it moist. :)

Not much you can do at this point, they should be out soon enough. Just keep in mind that next time to not go so scissor happy. A V-shaped incision lets you sneak a peek and then as they start coming out you can start trimming back the shells on the remaining babes.

Its a learning curve...:snake:

Alright.

There taking there sweet ol' time man! I cut them on wednesday at like 6:30! Today is going to be day 4 after I cut them. At what point should I become worried that they've been in there too long? And when should I expect them do you think? I always thought they hung out in the egg for like a day or two. They haven't even poked there heads out of the egg yet. There just bathing in that "bacteria soup" lol and loving every second of it.

This is why it's a good idea not to cut until they start pipping. Personally, I feel too many people are impatient and cut too often. Mother nature is pretty good at getting them to come out when they're ready. ;)

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Originally Posted by xdeus

This is why it's a good idea not to cut until they start pipping. Personally, I feel too many people are impatient and cut too often. Mother nature is pretty good at getting them to come out when they're ready. ;)

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Yeah I agree...Next time I'm waiting for pippage because waiting for them to come out is annoying!! Especially when you cut them, and now you get to see them in the egg, but not out of it lol. What a tease!

But is is possible to remove them from the egg manually? Tomorrow will be 5 days after me cutting them, seems kinda long to sit in an egg after its been cut no? Having trouble finding info on this...

Do not manually remove the snakes... They will come out when they are ready. That date is not based on when you decided to cut the snakes, but what temperature they were incubated at. Relax.... They will crawl out when they are ready.;)