Cost vs. Quality

I have been hearing lots of people say that its better to look for quality in an animal no matter its cost. When people hear that (or at least me) it sounds like they are saying that looking for good prices is bad an dropping the market. In my opinion it is best to look for the perfect animal but still keep in mind the cost. What would you think if you found a almost perfect pewter with a kink in his tail for only $250?

I shop the snake and the breeder first and if I find the snake I like from a breeder I like than I am willing to pay more.

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Originally Posted by jjsnakedude

What would you think if you found a almost perfect pewter with a kink in his tail for only $250?

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Oviously not perfect :rolleyes:

Pet quality yes, but would I pay $250 for a kinked animal if plan where to breed him? NO

Sometimes you can get a good deal! If you like the look of the animal and it's cheap, why not? Usually if you get a good quality animal and/or it's from a well known breeder, you will pay a higher price! A pewter with a kink, great for a pet not a breeder! Thats the other side, quality animal makes quality babies!!!

Quality for me is buying the very best example of an animal that I can find and knowing that animal is going to have a higher price tag than it's more common expressions of that same gene.

For example - pastels. There are superb pastels and then there are average pastels, and then there are pastels that are hard to even tell that they are pastels.

I'm going to pay more for the superb animal. I don't want average, because my breeding goals are not to produce average. I'm also not going to sell superb animals at average prices.

Here's an example of a female that I paid $100 more than all the other female pastels that breeder had for sale at the time - and she was worth every single extra dollar (to me). The seller had her marked as an exceptional animal, I agreed that it was an exceptional animal, and I had no heartache over spending the money to acquire this exceptional animal.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9..._f_1_600_0.jpg

To me it shouldn't be about cost, it should be about how much you want the snake, period.

If you find a snake for say, $50. It is one you've been wanting but it doesn't look like it eats well, or maybe the seller seems shady, or what have you. Sure you can buy the cheap snake, but will you be happy with it ?

On the other hand, say you find the same kind of snake for $200. The breeder has a stellar reputation, has feed and shed records for the past year, and every time you look at the snake you just think 'wow'. Do you think you'll be happy with the snake, even if it cost way more ?

I hope that makes sense. :weirdface

For example, I've seen cinnamon babies for as low as $75 and as high as $325. When I wanted to buy a cinnamon female, I looked at pictures for a week, picking out what I liked about certain snakes versus others. So when I went to my local fair, I knew just what I wanted my snake to look like, and what the maximum I would spend was. Sure, I could have walked out of there with a perfectly decent cinnamon for around $125. But none of them had what I was looking for. When I found THE girl, she had it all! High blushing, crazy pattern, lots of flames, and a black back to boot. I knew she was a once-in-a-lifetime find, and didn't bat an eye at giving $275 for her, even though she was the most expensive one there.

If you buy what makes you happy, price isn't as important.

Gale

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Here's an example of a female that I paid $100 more than all the other female pastels that breeder had for sale at the time - and she was worth every single extra dollar (to me). The seller had her marked as an exceptional animal, I agreed that it was an exceptional animal, and I had no heartache over spending the money to acquire this exceptional animal.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9..._f_1_600_0.jpg

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i agree with you but price does come into play too, ive seen 3 or 4 people that picked up siblings to your pastel that look great as well, now when all of you have offspring from these there is a great chance that the offspring could all be the same quality. but that doesnt mean that you wont charge less for yours than one of the others would for theres.

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Originally Posted by jjsnakedude

I have been hearing lots of people say that its better to look for quality in an animal no matter its cost. When people hear that (or at least me) it sounds like they are saying that looking for good prices is bad an dropping the market. In my opinion it is best to look for the perfect animal but still keep in mind the cost. What would you think if you found a almost perfect pewter with a kink in his tail for only $250?

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I would say it's about $250 overpriced. A kinked snake should never be sold in my opinion.

I was just using the pewter male for an example. But I do have my eye on a perfect female pewter for $500. Some people dont get my point either. My point is just because usually a great example of a morph is going to cost more dosent mean you cant look for better prices. Sometimes people make post that get the feel that if you look for better prices that you degrade the market and dont care for the animals.


Off topic-

:O

Robin that is a totally sun-like pastel. Awsome Find!!

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Originally Posted by pfan151

I would say it's about $250 overpriced. A kinked snake should never be sold in my opinion.

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Kinks can happen for two reasons: genetics and an injury. If it was an injury and doesn't affect the quality of life or breeding of the snake, I don't see a problem with it.

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Originally Posted by jjsnakedude

I was just using the pewter male for an example. But I do have my eye on a perfect female pewter for $500. Some people dont get my point either. My point is just because usually a great example of a morph is going to cost more dosent mean you cant look for better prices. Sometimes people make post that get the feel that if you look for better prices that you degrade the market and dont care for the animals.

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There's nothing wrong with looking for a good price, just remember that others might not want to wait for a better price to get that nice snake. Also, there's no such thing as a "perfect" snake. Snake quality is very subjective. People like different qualities in a morph, and what you may think is perfect might be unappealing to someone else. Pay what you think the snake is worth and what you can afford.

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Originally Posted by 771subliminal

i agree with you but price does come into play too, ive seen 3 or 4 people that picked up siblings to your pastel that look great as well, now when all of you have offspring from these there is a great chance that the offspring could all be the same quality. but that doesnt mean that you wont charge less for yours than one of the others would for theres.

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Actually - unless they talk to Garrick, there's no way to know which ones are her siblings - all the pastels he's had up don't all come from the same clutches - and he's got two super pastels that he's running through his females. That's four sets of pastel genes in the mix (2 sets for each super). And Garrick said that his supers are crossed lines, so he can't even say which line is which. I know of two others that were priced as high as mine and two members here each purchased them, and I would have been happy with either of them as well.

Will all my offspring be the best example of a pastel? Certainly not - but will my offspring be graded and priced accordingly? Absolutely. But by being very selective in not just my morphs, but also my normals, and selectively breeding for certain traits, I increase my chances of producing nicer animals. For me, it's like, why bother breeding if I'm breeding just for the sake of breeding - breed to produce the best you can - that starts with having nice animals as your foundation animals.

I know that my tastes aren't the same as others, so I can only buy and breed what appeals to me - and for ME, I'm willing to pay to get what I want.

Instead of voicing my opinions on this, im just going to say I agree with everything Robin has said.

a personal example would be, a few years ago I found a spider female I REALLY wanted. her price was $1500. at the time, average spider cost was $1000. I was so impressed with the animal and wanted her so bad, I didnt even ask if the breeder would go lower. I just gave him what she was listed for, period. Im not saying asking for a lower price should be frowned upon. but I personally thought this snake was well worth the extra $500... countless people on forums laughed at me and called me a tool. but.. in the end.. im still smiling :]

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Actually - unless they talk to Garrick, there's no way to know which ones are her siblings - all the pastels he's had up don't all come from the same clutches - and he's got two super pastels that he's running through his females. That's four sets of pastel genes in the mix (2 sets for each super). And Garrick said that his supers are crossed lines, so he can't even say which line is which. I know of two others that were priced as high as mine and two members here each purchased them, and I would have been happy with either of them as well.

Will all my offspring be the best example of a pastel? Certainly not - but will my offspring be graded and priced accordingly? Absolutely. But by being very selective in not just my morphs, but also my normals, and selectively breeding for certain traits, I increase my chances of producing nicer animals. For me, it's like, why bother breeding if I'm breeding just for the sake of breeding - breed to produce the best you can - that starts with having nice animals as your foundation animals.

I know that my tastes aren't the same as others, so I can only buy and breed what appeals to me - and for ME, I'm willing to pay to get what I want.

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i know youd pay for the quality you want as would i but lets say that someone were to produce an animal of the same quality of the one that you do and your price is 15% lower than theirs that doesnt mean that yours is 15% lower quality.

if you didnt get yours already and one of the other 2 that got the ones that youd be just as happy with turned around and sold it for $100 less would you not of got it from them instead of where you did?

im not saying that people shouldnt pay for what they want but sometimes you can find exactly what you want and pay less for it at the same time.

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Originally Posted by 771subliminal

i know youd pay for the quality you want as would i but lets say that someone were to produce an animal of the same quality of the one that you do and your price is 15% lower than theirs that doesnt mean that yours is 15% lower quality.

if you didnt get yours already and one of the other 2 that got the ones that youd be just as happy with turned around and sold it for $100 less would you not of got it from them instead of where you did?

im not saying that people shouldnt pay for what they want but sometimes you can find exactly what you want and pay less for it at the same time.

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:) Thank you
thats exactly what I wanted to put out.

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Originally Posted by 771subliminal

im not saying that people shouldnt pay for what they want but sometimes you can find exactly what you want and pay less for it at the same time.

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Sometimes you can, and if the seller also happens to be highly reputable and there's nothing shady about it, then you can do this dance: :banana:

I'm not one to knock price-checking, believe me -- everybody likes a great deal, and if you can get what you want for a good price, then I don't think anyone would begrudge you for doing so.

However, what I think people are trying to get at is that it seems that a lot of folks just getting into BP's just want XYZ morph, and they want to pay the minimal amount they can for it. That makes sense and it's perfectly natural to want to get a great deal, but the problem is that everybody who gets into this game is planning to breed (a relatively unique situation in various animal circles, and least AFAIK).

Right now, it's still quite possible to sell morphs on the basis of "this is XYZ morph." A dirty brown pastel that barely looks better than a clean normal will still sell for a bit more than aforementioned clean normal, just because it's a pastel, will produce more (ugly) pastels, and can be used as a building block to produce combo morphs ... But the margin is decreasing, and I honestly wonder how long it will last. I think that in the future, if you want to be able to sell your offspring, you're going to need to be able to compete in a saturated market even more than ever by offering morphs that really look great, not just morphs that kinda look like what they're supposed to if you take your glasses off and squint at them.

In addition, I am in complete agreement with Robin in that I don't really get the point of breeding just for the sake of breeding. Granted, I enjoy breeding a variety of animals and I can completely agree that it takes husbandry and enjoyment (and, potentially, disappointment and sadness!) to a whole new level ... But it's not just because I enjoy the process, but because I always want to improve whatever it is that I'm looking at. I have a thing in my head (chinchilla, snake) that doesn't quite exist yet, and I want to make one. To me, that's what's cool and fun about it (on top of the cute little babies, of course).

I think that with morphs, it's too easy to fall into the trap of "I want a bumblebee, all I need to get it is a pastel and a spider" ... But will that bumblebee really be all that great of an animal if you used a brown pastel and a dark spider?

Not to say that I believe it's morally wrong for people to breed lower-grade snakes -- if that's all you desire to get out of it then that's your prerogative to do so. But I guess my point (did I have a point? wow!) is that you have to like the animal first, not just the price, or you're going to wind up disappointed eventually.

To me, when I look into a rack tub I want to see a snake that really makes me smile, every time. And I want that snake's offspring to make me do a dance when I see them pip. There are so many freaking ball pythons out there, you see a great deal every week ... It's finding an exceptional-looking specimen that's rarer. (And sometimes you find both at the same time, and then you do the banana dance.)

I apologize for my inability to be pithy. (I had an English teacher tell me that I write too much ... That's a bad sign.)

i go for look ether. of course everybodys taste is different. i saw a mojo in a reptile magazine. it was the hottest mojo ive ever seen. now i search a loooong time to find´such an animal- and if i find it, i pay a price that these animal is worth to me. if he sells it for 100 bugs under market priece- great i buy it. if he sells it 100$ over market price- i still buy it. cause it is worth to me.

and u must have something in mind. u can buy a cinnamon for 200$ and buy a pastel for 100bugs. u breed em and get pewters u can sell for 600$. but i would buy a cinni for 400bugs and a pastel for 250bugs. and i sell the pewters for 1000bugs.

of course were this just an example. but in gerenal i would say: buy top quaility snakes for fair prices and u will sell the babies for fair prices!

u can find pewters everywere- so u could sell em only over the price if they average. but when u have top quality pewters, people will run ur table down...

plus- u have wonderful babies where everybody is jealous about.

im so jealous about a cinni and a lesser i saw here....


edit: i think the future in ballpython breeding, will be selektive breeding. of course is the shooting for new morphs a topic, but i think a part of the market will focus on producing the nicest lessers and the nicest cinnis...