D.O.A. Inquiry

I'm new here.

I'm a small time breeder/hobbyist.

I just sold a snake and shipped him out immediately upon receipt of buyer's payment via PayPal. I used an overnight carrier, with the proper styrofoam-lined box, punched airholes and since it was being shipped in the same state, it arrived within about 14 hours to its destination.

I just received an email from the customer who claims it to have arrived DOA. I have requested photos and the shipment of such animal back to me to confirm the claim, I was curious to find out if anyone out there has shipped an animal at such close proximity and have it arrive D.O.A.?

Also, the customer is new in another forum as well with only ONE post in their status record. From what I gather, I feel a bit suspicious about the claim.

Thanks.

Nothing is out of the realm of POSSIBILITIES

I however wouldnt do a thing without PROOF of the DOA

That kind of goes without asking

Require photos or video of the DOA. If not able to then require the snake to be shipped back.

Can it happen, abolutely in those hot months a snake can overheat very easily during transport.

Now the real question is did it happen? Well the only way to find out is to receive a proof that it did and if it really happened the customer should have no issue providing this proof to you.

Personally I would not do anything until I received such a proof.

If I ordered a snake online and received a DOA I would immediately take a picture and contact you. We live in a day and age where even if you dont own a camera phone, either a family member or friend does. They sell cheap digital cameras at ANY drug store these days. Also, where I live right now the heat is brutal, I wouldnt ship anything or order anything this week. Like Deborah says, I wouldnt do anything until I received proof.

I would rather get a video. It's had to tell if a snake is alive from a picture. Good luck! I'm with everyone else. Get proof. Should be in your TOA, if not I would definately add it for future purchases.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stratus_020202

I would rather get a video. It's had to tell if a snake is alive from a picture.

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One could ask the customer to put the snake on it's side or even back... Typically they won't lay in a straight line long enough to take a picture.

I hope it all works out!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Elise.m

One could ask the customer to put the snake on it's side or even back... Typically they won't lay in a straight line long enough to take a picture.

I hope it all works out!

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Yeah, that's a good idea. I hate trying to get belly shots.

Ok, it's been 24 hours since the animal's departure from my location.

I have been provided with photos that cannot determine the validity of a DOA, so a video was also e-mailed and I was willing to completely make this right and refund everything including shipping. I have requested the reptile be frozen, and sent back to me immediately but the customer decided to send him back by USPS 2 day service - from what I gather, this is not legal?

Also, upon verification of other venues I also have noticed that the package was never signed for, and according to the courier there was no one available to sign and therefore left at the front door.

I believe it is common sense to have someone be present for the signing of such delivery, is it fair to say I am no longer liable for this loss?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by valleysnakeguy

I believe it is common sense to have someone be present for the signing of such delivery, is it fair to say I am no longer liable for this loss?

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IMO, it is common sense. But to someone who is new in the hobby, it may not be. They shouldn't be jumping in so quickly, but that's just what people do.

If it was left on the doorstep for multiple hours during the heat, I would say that's the buyers fault. You did everything right on your part.

I believe that the buyer should have been there, or made arrangements for someone to be there. I know I do if I am receiving a package. I have even talked to my delivery person, and they know to take it to a local store, for me to pick up later. If the package was not signed for, and left on the doorstep, this is out of your hands. You should not have to pay.

As for the USPS shipping... I do not know due to the snake not being alive. Depending on the heat, 2 days can make for a very smelly package. :weirdface

If the person was not there to sign for the package and signature was required, then this results as a failed first attempt which voids live arrival. you can not be held liable for a animal left on the door step to cook in the heat when he should of been there

Quote:

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Originally Posted by valleysnakeguy

Ok, it's been 24 hours since the animal's departure from my location.

I have been provided with photos that cannot determine the validity of a DOA, so a video was also e-mailed and I was willing to completely make this right and refund everything including shipping. I have requested the reptile be frozen, and sent back to me immediately but the customer decided to send him back by USPS 2 day service - from what I gather, this is not legal?

Also, upon verification of other venues I also have noticed that the package was never signed for, and according to the courier there was no one available to sign and therefore left at the front door.

I believe it is common sense to have someone be present for the signing of such delivery, is it fair to say I am no longer liable for this loss?

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IMO, if the package was never signed for and the buyer left the animal outside to bake, you are not responsible. However, if the package was guaranteed by noon and you received the email at 12:30pm, I'd say that the animal died sometime in transit.

Either way, unless I could prove that it was there fault, I'd bite the bullet and refund the cost of the snake and shipping. I also wouldn't have shipped any live animals at this time of the year. Even in Michigan we are having unearthly hot spells. I just wouldn't feel comfortable putting anything live in a box and shipping it.

Very much agree with all that posted...Did you pack the snake with cold packs? Sorry, if you mentioned that...

We are entering the hot part of the year for shipping and thus everyone needs to be careful shipping and receiving...Just make sure you get the proof, do what's right and move on...The reptile community is very close and "karma is a beyoch..." :D:D

DO NOT freeze the animal.

if you're going to get a necropsy done, freezing it could destroy any evidence.

Refrigerate it.

This is why I make a video of any snake unboxing as soon as it comes in.
(Well, and also for my Youtube channel.)

If something is DOA, I have video proof of me opening it. Haven't had a problem though.

With the bump, this old thread caught my eye...

We are working now on Terms and Conditions for live arrival insurance for ShipYourReptiles.com. I am going to incorporate the video suggestion as proof of DOA into the requirements, that is an excellent idea.

As for this particular DOA, from a breeder's perspective, requiring someone to return a DOA seemed like a good idea in the beginning, but in the end, it's not. It just adds expense, inconvenience, more heartache, and being such a rare occurrence, if I think it is a scam, then I would just not do business with that person again.

They MUST be there for the first delivery attempt though. No excuses for missing it, or not noticing the package has been left at the door for the last 4 hours. Be alert and anticipate the package arrival, ALWAYS.

That said, it has been perhaps 2 years since our last shipment DOA at Pro Exotics, and that is with perhaps a thousand animals shipped each year. It is a very rare occurrence, as long as we use appropriate packaging, and watch for inappropriate weather.

For something that happens so infrequently, I have to chalk it up to bad luck, make the refund, and do it with a smile. I may ask for a pic, they may volunteer one, and typically a dead and limp snake in hand is all the visual info I need. I don't ask the customer to jump through further hoops, nor do I look to incur more shipping costs for a dead animal that has no further use.

I suppose you could try and keep the animal from rotting and do a necropsy, but that is another two or three hundred dollars, and again, with the rarity of the situation, I am just looking to make it right for the customer.

DOAs may happen, but they should be INCREDIBLY infrequent, and I worry more about the customer's satisfaction and experience, rather than worry about getting more proof (and smelly rotten proof at that) of a sad, dead snake.