Infrared debate

Hey guys.

So I asked around A while ago and there seems to be some split opinions on infrared heat bulbs

Now I bought one and I dont know what to do with it. Somebody told me you shouldnt be able to see the light? But I can see it... so does that mean its not infrared?

So if I can see it, can my snake?

Im curious because some people say snakes AND people cannot see infrared. If this is true... then my bulb is not infrared and I should return it for a SECOND time and get a CHE?

Also UTH is out of the question because it raises my ground temps WAY to high, and the probe doesnt ever fall to 80. so setting it to 83 is not an option


Unless I raise my tank even higher?

Any help/opinions on this matter is greatly appreciated


EDIT:

Probably good to mention that I have a BLOOD python, not a ball. so temps jhave to stay 78 - 82 ground and ambient through the entire tank

The light should be a secondary source of heat, not a primary.

The UTH should be plugged into a thermostat, this is not an option, it's a must.
With a thermostat you will be able to set your "ground temp" to 90-92 and then add your secondary heat source for getting your ambient temperature correct.

A CHE is way better for this purpose, and last a lot longer too ;)

"Probably good to mention that I have a BLOOD python, not a ball."

EDIT: *LOL, that sort of changes everything!*

Infrared is a whole spectrum of light, some parts of the spectrum are visible, I believe... (could be wrong on this one)

The bulb is probably putting out both visible and invisible infrared light, which produces the heat. The red bulbs are supposed to be invisible to the snake even if humans can see it...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

The light should be a secondary source of heat, not a primary.

The UTH should be plugged into a thermostat, this is not an option, it's a must.
With a thermostat you will be able to set your "ground temp" to 90-92 and then add your secondary heat source for getting your ambient temperature correct.

A CHE is way better for this purpose, and last a lot longer too ;)

"Probably good to mention that I have a BLOOD python, not a ball."

EDIT: *LOL, that sort of changes everything!*

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LOL! Yeah my bad I forgot to add it in the original before editing

Unfortunatly I am a brokey and cannot afford a proportional thermostat. I only have an On/off

So If I set it to turn off at 83, it is impossible for the probe to hit 80 and turn on again and repeat the cycle, because the room temp is above 80.

So... uth + thermostat with this snake in my room is nearly impossible unless I raise my tank even higher

BUT

If I use my 50 watt infrared, 24/7, will my snake be able to see it? Because it seems thats the only way to heat the tank and keep it at 78 - 82

edit:

the reason im posting here also, and not blood python forums, is because even thuogh tis 2 different snake, they are both snakes and some may have experience with infrared bulbs with BPs or bloods or whatever, so I believe this belongs here, or even BP husbandry. either one

Anybody? lol :(

My main question is if snakes can see the infrared light, and should I return miune and just get a CHE.. At first I was confident that it was okay to run 24/7, but ive read several debates on it and again I am doubting it

Any info/advise is appreciated


thanks!

Snakes are not supposed to be able to see the red light from the infrared bulbs.

I use them at night and my snakes do not react to them...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ham

Snakes are not supposed to be able to see the red light from the infrared bulbs.

I use them at night and my snakes do not react to them...

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Okay, thanks!

thats mainly what I needed to know. Althought I hope to switch to UTH when I get a tub.


Thanks again!

The short answer is no you can't see true ir, your bulbs are producing IR but also red light as they are very close together a CHE of the same wattage will produce more heat and less (no) light. No the red light will not bother your snake.

Long answer...

This is a bit academic here. Snakes absolutely sense IR, 'see' isn't quite right, it isn't visual but with the heat pits. Does IR sources bother them no it doesn't seem to. If you are seeing light from your bulbs (dark red right...) The visual spectrum is a little part of the electromagnetic spectrum. ... microwave, infrared, visual red, orange, yellow, green, blue, violet, ultraviolet, x-ray... There is a bit of a cross over at the junctions IR to red. You are seeing the crossing point. This also means that the bulbs you have are not deep in the IR range but the 'near' IR and are not producing very efficient heat. Again academic as it works so how cares? CHEs are in the deep IR range and produce no light only heat the light in this case is a bit of a by product and not really useful but hey you can check on what your snake is doing in the night.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ham

Snakes are not supposed to be able to see the red light from the infrared bulbs.

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Thats kind of an oxymoron since infrared isn't a visible part of the spectrum. http://www.antonine-education.co.uk/...m_spectrum.jpg

A true infrared just puts off heat. no visible light whatsoever (unless you've got very specific cut off filters that will allow inferred to pass through).

The red bulbs aren't infrared, they're just regular light bulbs with red coating on them.

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Originally Posted by cinderbird

Thats kind of an oxymoron since infrared isn't a visible part of the spectrum. http://www.antonine-education.co.uk/...m_spectrum.jpg

A true infrared just puts off heat. no visible light whatsoever (unless you've got very specific cut off filters that will allow inferred to pass through).

The red bulbs aren't infrared, they're just regular light bulbs with red coating on them.

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Soo...

I should return it and get a CHE...?

I just want something that will heat to what I need 78 - 82F and that wont diturb my snakes day/nigth cycle. If I have that already, no point in returning it

but if what I have will disrupt my snakes cycle, then I am returning it.

From what I am reading it seems to me that the bulb I have wont disrupt the cycle but does not produce the heat a CHE would...


is that fair to say or am I wrong again?

Depends on how cold the room will get I suppose, whether you need a CHE (gives off more heat) or a red bulb. I just need to use a red or black bulb, but your winters are probably far colder so maybe go with the CHE?

Black and red bulbs do not disturb my short tail, though. Also since the CHE will likely be too hot in the summer for you, you can clamp it onto something away from the enclosure. Then you can just slide the snake closer or further away from it depending on the room temperature. Like this summer my short tail will be far from the bulb or the bulb will be turned off. In the winter I have him scooted right up close to it. It's very simple to do if you have sliding space.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tikall

Depends on how cold the room will get I suppose, whether you need a CHE (gives off more heat) or a red bulb. I just need to use a red or black bulb, but your winters are probably far colder so maybe go with the CHE?

Black and red bulbs do not disturb my short tail, though. Also since the CHE will likely be too hot in the summer for you, you can clamp it onto something away from the enclosure. Then you can just slide the snake closer or further away from it depending on the room temperature. Like this summer my short tail will be far from the bulb or the bulb will be turned off. In the winter I have him scooted right up close to it. It's very simple to do if you have sliding space.

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Ah, I see

Yeah this bulb may have to go back then. Becuase I have a lot of room to move the tank but this red bulb doesnt seem to do much unless its right ontop of the tank

I may just go return it for a second time for a CHE and move the tank farther away.


They are gonna hate me, Ive returned it twice lol

Thanks for clearing that up man, those red bulbs always say infrared on them, atleast the ones I get, I knew infrared was supposed to be invisible, I know its used on night vision equipment and on laser designators in the military, I just wasnt sure if part of the infrared spectrum might be visible or not... Not claiming to be an expert on this particular subject...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ham

Thanks for clearing that up man, those red bulbs always say infrared on them, atleast the ones I get, I knew infrared was supposed to be invisible, I know its used on night vision equipment and on laser designators in the military, I just wasnt sure if part of the infrared spectrum might be visible or not... Not claiming to be an expert on this particular subject...

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Yeah, they are infrared but we can see them I guess because we have a broader color range. so we see the transition from light to infrared, the snakes dont. so they just see no light I guess

Atleast thats how I interpreted it

all light bulbs emit infrared to some degree. IR = HEAT if it is hot there is IR. The red bulbs are just not as efficient they work just as well. It makes no difference.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

The UTH should be plugged into a thermostat, this is not an option, it's a must.
With a thermostat you will be able to set your "ground temp" to 90-92 and then add your secondary heat source for getting your ambient temperature correct.

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I didn't read much of the thread...but you keep your blood'd enclosures at 90-92F? From what I've gathered (from many a breeder), a hot spot of 86F is enough with an ambient of 80-82F.

Dennis

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikeV

Yeah, they are infrared but we can see them I guess because we have a broader color range. so we see the transition from light to infrared, the snakes dont. so they just see no light I guess

Atleast thats how I interpreted it

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Actually, the IR range of the wave spectrum is NOT visible to the human eye. If the red lamps were truly 'Infrared,' they would be entirely invisible to the human eye, and only emit IR, which can be felt as heat.

The Ceramic Heat Emitters are emitting true IR, which if you pointed a video camera or night vision thing at might be visible, but is invisible to the naked eye. (I'm honestly not sure if the CHEs are emitting IR in the range of a video camera's detection, but it certainly isn't visible to the human eye...)

The red lamp "infrared" bulbs also emit true IR (Heat,) but they ALSO emit visible, Red light. (Plain old visible light)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikeV

So If I set it to turn off at 83, it is impossible for the probe to hit 80 and turn on again and repeat the cycle, because the room temp is above 80.

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If your ambient temp is above 80, there's no need for a hot spot with bloods.

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Originally Posted by m00kfu

If your ambient temp is above 80, there's no need for a hot spot with bloods.

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Yeah, im not trying to achieve a hot spot

I was trying to get a ground temp throughout the enclosure of 78 - 82

Which is impossible if the thermostat doesnt get cold enough to turn the UTH on once it hits 82 or 83

Its an On/off thermostat and the probe doesnt hit 80 EVER. So it doesnt turn on the UTH. which then doesnt heat

its hard to explain lol

If it's not dropping below 80 then what's the problem?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by m00kfu

If it's not dropping below 80 then what's the problem?

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The problem is that the temps in the cage drop below 80


but the probe that controls when the UTH turns on (it has to hit 80 to turn the UTH on to heat until 83F then turns off and has to drop to 80 again to repeat the cycle)

So basicly temps drop below 80, all the wya down to like 78 - 79 and the UTH probe does not. so it will not turn on the UTH

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikeV

Yeah, im not trying to achieve a hot spot

I was trying to get a ground temp throughout the enclosure of 78 - 82

Which is impossible if the thermostat doesnt get cold enough to turn the UTH on once it hits 82 or 83

Its an On/off thermostat and the probe doesnt hit 80 EVER. So it doesnt turn on the UTH. which then doesnt heat

its hard to explain lol

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So turn the thermostat up to turn on at 82 or 83 to achieve inside temps of 80. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

So turn the thermostat up to turn on at 82 or 83 to achieve inside temps of 80. ;)

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I trried that, I have to set it to 85 for it to turn on at 82. And if I do that it will always over do it and it ends up hitting like 87 - 88 instead of just 85.

Im probably gonan just buy a proportional thermostat because I dont trust the temps atm at all

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikeV

I trried that, I have to set it to 85 for it to turn on at 82. And if I do that it will always over do it and it ends up hitting like 87 - 88 instead of just 85.

Im probably gonan just buy a proportional thermostat because I dont trust the temps atm at all

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My on/off thermostats are set with a 1 degree difference - so set it for 83 on, 84 off.

I dont think its a quality thermostat.

Mike, theres no need for the proportional thermostat you mentioned.

Save up, get a loan, do whatever and just heat and cool that room like I told you about.

It will make your life SOOO much easier, and less stressful on your animals'.

A thermostat on a lamp/uth wont do much for your stress levels.

If the room cools down, the lamp will have to heat up even more to keep the ambients up, making the hot spot too hot.

A uth wont do anything for the ambients.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

My on/off thermostats are set with a 1 degree difference - so set it for 83 on, 84 off.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by 2kdime

I dont think its a quality thermostat.

Mike, theres no need for the proportional thermostat you mentioned.

Save up, get a loan, do whatever and just heat and cool that room like I told you about.

It will make your life SOOO much easier, and less stressful on your animals'.

A thermostat on a lamp/uth wont do much for your stress levels.

If the room cools down, the lamp will have to heat up even more to keep the ambients up, making the hot spot too hot.

A uth wont do anything for the ambients.....

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Thats true...

But I wont have near enough money before july 30th

I have to have something ready to go before july 30th because I have to go to my uncles and I wont be able to if I dotn have this set up


Well, heres what I could do:

Get the proportional thermostat

Get the tub

and then set it all up in my living room

because even though it is louder in there, the temps are also better aswell.

For example, during the summer the AC is on so the air is always pretty cool. that


and during the winter the fire place is on


So I have a feeling that in the living room ambient temp will be perfect. then the UTH and proportional thermostat will handle the ground temp

Dont guess temps, KNOW them

Putting your snake in a room that has a lot of traffic, or is real noisy can also lead to problems, so the living room might not be a good idea as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 2kdime

Dont guess temps, KNOW them

Putting your snake in a room that has a lot of traffic, or is real noisy can also lead to problems, so the living room might not be a good idea as well.

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Yeah, so thats not an option

Ofcourse I would be testing temps in the tub using the thermostat and UTH before I move the snake



What about a space heater? I can see how much they cost...

Will that work?


I wish I could afford a window air conditioner but I cant :(