I have $20k to spend and I need help!!!

Okay I found an investor that is willing to put up $20k into ball pythons. I have been doing a lot of research and I have started my own breeding, but my question is... What would be the best way to invest this $20k.

He obviously would like to profit as much as possible.

I have found the following snakes for sale that may be good candidates

Male: super pastel, spider, yellow belly 700g - $8000
http://market.kingsnake.com/image/1028177.jpg

Male: pastel clown PROVEN - $6,500
LEFT IN THE PHOTO
http://market.kingsnake.com/image/1057766.jpg

Female: super pastel spider pinstripe 700g - $6500
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...1&d=1270901972

Female: clown 943g - $2300
http://market.kingsnake.com/image/1056459.jpg

These were just some that I found in a few hours. I am hoping I can get some feedback from you guys.

I don't know but I have some advice..
Ball pythons, IMO are hardly an investment. This year (for example, just randomly pulling numbers outta the air) a bee could be $2000. Next year that bee could be worth $700. If your looking to make money I would recommend something else.
This is just my opinion though.
Ball pythons prices are so up and down you should want them for there beauty and awesomeness hahahah. What does this person like? That way if down the road there "clownpastel" or pin yadda yadda is only worth $1000 then the snake will still get the proper care and attention it deserves.
But like I said just my opinion :-).
Also since I've been in this hobby, less then a year now, I have even seen prices drop 25%-50%...

But if he/she knows that there is a massive chance of losing a lot of money I would try making your own designer morph. Personally I would get a bunch of bees, normal females, pastel females, clown females, and start breeding looking for that next amazing morph :-).
Thanks, Jeremy.

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Originally Posted by Jeremy78

I don't know but I have some advice..
Ball pythons, IMO are hardly an investment. This year (for example, just randomly pulling numbers outta the air) a bee could be $2000. Next year that bee could be worth $700. If your looking to make money I would recommend something else.
This is just my opinion though.
Ball pythons prices are so up and down you should want them for there beauty and awesomeness hahahah. What does this person like? That way if down the road there "clownpastel" or pin yadda yadda is only worth $1000 then the snake will still get the proper care and attention it deserves.
But like I said just my opinion :-).
Also since I've been in this hobby, less then a year now, I have even seen prices drop 25%-50%...

But if he/she knows that there is a massive chance of losing a lot of money I would try making your own designer morph. Personally I would get a bunch of bees, normal females, pastel females, clown females, and start breeding looking for that next amazing morph :-).
Thanks, Jeremy.

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You are forgetting something BG's rookie fan. Prices may go down on the animals, but you're not just letting them sit there...you're breeding them. You have to take the babies produced from the animal that dropped in value into account when considering whether it was a good investment or not.

Recessives will hold their value longer, but Co doms will see a faster return. If you don't want to see your snakes value seem to drop overnight....buy recessive. It will however take you a leeetle longer to see results.

Whatever you may be looking for though Ralphy....BG just might happen to know where you can find it.;):D

You could pick up a Female Banana!

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Originally Posted by Big Gunns

You are forgetting something BG's rookie fan. Prices may go down on the animals, but you're not just letting them sit there...you're breeding them. You have to take the babies produced from the animal that dropped in value into account when considering whether it was a good investment or not.

Recessives will hold their value longer, but Co doms will see a faster return. If you don't want to see your snakes value seem to drop overnight....buy recessive. It will however take you a leeetle longer to see results.

Whatever you may be looking for though Ralphy....BG just might happen to know where you can find it.;):D

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Okay cool good info. If you have any exclusive/rare morphs that have future potential please pm me. we can talk serious business.

This does not mean that I am closed to other suggestions. Please post away.

If you have anything that you believe that I may be interested in please let me know.

I would also recommend that you use some of that investment to market yourself. If people don't know who you are, and/or you have no reputation at all, it's going to take some time to sell animals - they could be up for sale for weeks, even months if you're not slashing prices in response to them not selling right away.

I believe that first impressions are always important, so be sure to also get yourself a nice website if you haven't already. Doesn't have to be elaborate, but at least a professional looking one that is appealing and will bring people back to check out what you may have available.

Good luck with your endeavors!

If I had 20k right now I'd open an account and start investing in the stock market. Put some of that into ball's if you don't mind the risk of not getting your money back. My sig say's it all, its all about the animals for me, its my belief that the days of someone making a living off of this hobby are over. Now is there money to be made yeah but not enough to justify a 20k investment unless you are getting the next hot morph that everybody wants. This economy sucks.

My post might be unpopular but I've invested about 7k and have recouped half my money in 2 breeding season's but I also count my holdbacks to drop my number. If I do not make another dollar I will still be happy ask yourself that same question. I love ball pythons

Things to consider.
1-feeding bill, don't spend all your money on snakes you have to feed them. Whether it breeding your own rats or buying them it can get expensive especially around hatching season.

2- Caging you have the money now go ahead and get all the caging your going to need for the next three years. Even if you don't use it have it.

3- Marketing do a budget for marketing, website, Magazine adds, business cards, swag, show equipment ect, you might not need them now but in 3 years when your hatching 1500.00 animals you want people to see a professional business front.

4- Animals Choose wisely!! just running out buying the biggest baddest thing out might not be the best idea. Instead of a Pastel clown of 6500 you might consider 1.3 Pastels het for clown find a way to give your money some legs.. To many times I've seen people spend mass amounts of money on big time morphs to "become a breeder" and after 2 years of keeping feeding and trying to breed they get frustrated and realize they wasted 2 years because either they have no clue what they are doing and have all this money tied up, or they can't sell the animals they produce cause they didn't market themselves or whatever.. Out of that 20K I'd say spend 10 on snakes and the other 10 on getting your feet on the ground. Buy some big normal female and a couple of super males. Nothing will frustrate your investor more than spending 8K+ on two females that become picky eaters and don't breed for 3 more years.

5- take a step back and look at all aspects thing people forget when trying to become "Breeders" are their down fall.. in the last three years we have spent 25k + on snakes alone, just the animals..you will NOT recupe your investment in your first or second year Prices go down, snakes die, snakes quit eating, snakes don't breed, eggs don't hatch, babies don't live.

Just my two cents

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Things to consider.
1-feeding bill, don't spend all your money on snakes you have to feed them. Whether it breeding your own rats or buying them it can get expensive especially around hatching season.
2- Caging you have the money now go ahead and get all the caging your going to need for the next three years. Even if you don't use it have it.
3- Marketing do a budget for marketing, website, Magazine adds, business cards, swag, show equipment ect, you might not need them now but in 3 years when your hatching 1500.00 animals you want people to see a professional business front.
4- Animals Choose wisely!! just running out buying the biggest baddest thing out might not be the best idea. Instead of a Pastel clown of 6500 you might consider 1.3 Pastels het for clown find a way to give your money some legs.. To many times I've seen people spend mass amounts of money on big time morphs to "become a breeder" and after 2 years of keeping feeding and trying to breed they get frustrated and realize they wasted 2 years because either they have no clue what they are doing and have all this money tied up, or they can't sell the animals they produce cause they didn't market themselves or whatever.. Out of that 20K I'd say spend 10 on snakes and the other 10 on getting your feet on the ground. Buy some big normal female and a couple of super males. Nothing will frustrate your investor more than spending 8K+ on two females that become picky eaters and don't breed for 3 more years.

Just my two cents

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The Frog speaks wisdom. It isn't enough to have a load of high end animals. People may buy a pastel for 100.00 off a no body, but they will go to those who are well known for the high end stuff because they are trusted. Start small and build. Build the collection, build the breeders and feeders, build your Rep...Time sweat and knowledge will help you succeed where money will not.

Ball pythons are a good investment, but things to think about,
1.will they breed?
2.what if they die?
3.can you afford a 200-500$ vet bill if somthing goes wrong?
4.Can you manage feeding all of them mice or rats weekly?
5.Can you also offord a rack for all of them?

Ball pythons are very beautiful animals and can be expensive but can be hard to sell at times. Hope this helped =D

-Payson

Another thing to keep in mind is time. Have a few snakes isn't a huge time investment but having 25 snakes and then 50 more baby snakes is a bit different. I know a couple of breeders that have done well but with kids and family work can't grow. They don't make enough from breeding to give up the day job and can't keep more animals to make more. You want to give that some thought as well, perhaps finding and cultivating a relationship with reliable helper is a good idea. (trade or profit sharing or something) you won't need that at first but the day may come when you do.

IMO, spending 20k is not a good idea, unless you have been around for a while and have breeding down to the last tee. I spent 11k on snakes last year, and had 3k+ snakes that wouldnt breed, no matter what I did. VERY fustrating.

Do you have any experiance with breeding? Enough to know that if you spend that chunk of money, your confident that you will be able to bring that back in and then some? A ball python is not an animal that you can know will breed every year, what if you buy that $8000 snake, and then find out he wont breed for two years? By then his price may be $2000.

Im just saying get your feet wet, before you dive in.

And dont take the standing offer, try to get the lowest price you can!

I think everyone here has already given you a lot of good,sound advice. I think the most important thing is promoting youself. Get involved and active on communities like this. Build up friendships. Make yourself well known and thought of. Build yourself up a reputation. Post pictures of your beautiful animals, so people will go "wow"! This will lay down a foundation for you for future customers. When people out there say to them selves, "yay know, I need an albino pinstripe, or a blue eyed lucy, or a hypo caramel pastel clown, etc,. their going to think of the beautiful ones you posted pics of, and come to you. And like someone said, make a nice website. And find yourself an experienced mentor. All the trials and tribulations you encounter at first will be easier to cope with when you have someone who has been in the biz, breeding for some time, that you can turn to for help and support. Especially if this is your first time for everything. Good luck!

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

IMO, spending 20k is not a good idea, unless you have been around for a while and have breeding down to the last tee. I spent 11k on snakes last year, and had 3k+ snakes that wouldnt breed, no matter what I did. VERY fustrating.

Do you have any experiance with breeding? Enough to know that if you spend that chunk of money, your confident that you will be able to bring that back in and then some? A ball python is not an animal that you can know will breed every year, what if you buy that $8000 snake, and then find out he wont breed for two years? By then his price may be $2000.

Im just saying get your feet wet, before you dive in.

And dont take the standing offer, try to get the lowest price you can!

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I leaped-in head first without a life preserver a few few years back -- with a MUCH MORE than 20k. I has turned out fine for me thus far.
However, along the lines of what Matt is saying above -- until you breed and reproduce the snakes you purchased -- you are just a collector. Nothing wrong with collecting -- but it will not realize ANY return on you investment. In fact it will ONLY cost money with caging, food etc.

I would not know what to tell you to buy?? Too many choices of morphs and price-ranges. I am sure many will have suggestions about what to get -- just not me. Best of luck with your quest!!!

You've gotten some good advice and people have different thoughts so soak it all in. I don't know how much experience you have, if any, in breeding ball pythons so advice is difficult since we all are in different situations. If you are pretty new to this I would suggest you consider spreading the investment over a few years. For example, a nice start may be a good rack system and equipment and maybe some combo females. Then spend on more animals in subsequent years. I think you will learn along the way and possibly avoid some mistakes that you would of made if you spent all your money up front. Someone on this forum once said something like "to run a business you have to think of it like a business and not like a hobby". It is good advice...

All the best to you man, and way to dive in and not be ruled by fear, do the math, and listen to the advice... if you find its good... pull the trigger.

No risk, no gain.

You're best advice will likely come from a breeder who has been where you are and has been successful. (there are many) Definitely collect some advice and remember, the best stuff is not usually on KS... Feel free to call here if you like. I wish you all the best.

Justin

Thank you all for your feedback. Just to give you all a better idea of where I stand. I am currently in business with a very well known breeder from Miami. His name is out there, he has a site, he has lots of expensive reptiles (leopard geckos, bearded dragons, turtles, african fat tail geckos) and he knows what he is doing. I don't want to give you his name yet. I am simply head of his IT/Research division.

I found an investor who is interested in putting in $20k towards our business and the only thing that we are looking for are ball pythons. We have all the husbandry and feeding taken care of, we even already have some very nice ball pythons that are currently breeding.

I'm just not sure of what morphs I should get. I was told by some to try and make a new morph, and others said just to get a powerhouse male and some real nice females. I like the sound of having a few females and one powerhouse male. This is where my question comes into play.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I would also recommend that you use some of that investment to market yourself. If people don't know who you are, and/or you have no reputation at all, it's going to take some time to sell animals - they could be up for sale for weeks, even months if you're not slashing prices in response to them not selling right away.

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This is a biggie. Especially if you're going to be producing $$$ morphs, you'll need a rep. If I'm spending $2k on a snake, I might be willing to spend a little more to buy from someone who I know is legit than to risk it on someone I've never heard of. Now that person I've never heard of may produce just as nice of animals, but when you're dealing with animals and this kind of money, reputation is VERY important.

IMO the best way to go would be to establish yourself with solid morphs that are on the lowish end of the price spectrum. This way, you can build a solid reputation by putting plenty of good snakes into the buying demographic. Pick up some nice cheap female morphs--spiders and pastels are about as low as they CAN go in price--practically competing with norms on price--and use those as your base breeding females. Pick up a few neat males that will co-mingle nicely with the female morphs you've chosen and build up from there. I'd develop a solid 5-10 year plan, with the production of lots of mid-low level morphs for your first few years to build your rep, then slowly ease yourself into higher-end morphs as these start producing.

I would imagine that with 20k, the easiest way to get a killer deal would be to find someone who wants to quit breeding who is selling their entire set-up at a major loss. Just make sure you don't get a bunch of neglected snakes/gear...

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Originally Posted by Akua_Ko_Nalu

You could pick up a Female Banana!

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Or a female Candy!

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Originally Posted by WesleyTF

IMO the best way to go would be to establish yourself with solid morphs that are on the lowish end of the price spectrum. This way, you can build a solid reputation by putting plenty of good snakes into the buying demographic. Pick up some nice cheap female morphs--spiders and pastels are about as low as they CAN go in price--practically competing with norms on price--and use those as your base breeding females. Pick up a few neat males that will co-mingle nicely with the female morphs you've chosen and build up from there. I'd develop a solid 5-10 year plan, with the production of lots of mid-low level morphs for your first few years to build your rep, then slowly ease yourself into higher-end morphs as these start producing.

I would imagine that with 20k, the easiest way to get a killer deal would be to find someone who wants to quit breeding who is selling their entire set-up at a major loss. Just make sure you don't get a bunch of neglected snakes/gear...

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Well as far as reputation goes I don't think I'll have a problem. I work with a highly reputable breeder.

We've already been working on ball python plan, we just need the right morphs. Our current breeders, Phantom, Spider, Pastel, Mojave, Normals, and a few undisclosed morphs.

Now with $20k we want to get a nice project going. Would be nice to maybe produce a new designer morph.

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Originally Posted by ralphdp21

Thank you all for your feedback. Just to give you all a better idea of where I stand. I am currently in business with a very well known breeder from Miami. His name is out there, he has a site, he has lots of expensive reptiles (leopard geckos, bearded dragons, turtles, african fat tail geckos) and he knows what he is doing. I don't want to give you his name yet. I am simply head of his IT/Research division.

I found an investor who is interested in putting in $20k towards our business and the only thing that we are looking for are ball pythons. We have all the husbandry and feeding taken care of, we even already have some very nice ball pythons that are currently breeding.

I'm just not sure of what morphs I should get. I was told by some to try and make a new morph, and others said just to get a powerhouse male and some real nice females. I like the sound of having a few females and one powerhouse male. This is where my question comes into play.

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Why don't you ask him what he recommends you invest in then? :confused:

Do yourself a favor and put that 20K into gold or silver. Ball python prices are falling faster than you might imagine.
Any thought of ball pythons as an investment is not a wise idea, although I'm sure many breeders would have you believe otherwise.

Look at what the prices were, say 3 years ago to where they are today...it's sick, and I see no sign that prices have stabilized.

As hyper inflation kicks in and the dollar continues to shrink you wont be able to give them away.

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Originally Posted by Dave763

As hyper inflation kicks in and the dollar continues to shrink you wont be able to give them away.

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I'll take every single one you want to give away if it gets to that point.. ;)

I think if you could not afford to feed them you would not feel that way....Ed don't be dumb.:colbert:

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Originally Posted by Emilio

If I had 20k right now I'd open an account and start investing in the stock market. Put some of that into ball's if you don't mind the risk of not getting your money back. My sig say's it all, its all about the animals for me, its my belief that the days of someone making a living off of this hobby are over. Now is there money to be made yeah but not enough to justify a 20k investment unless you are getting the next hot morph that everybody wants. This economy sucks.

My post might be unpopular but I've invested about 7k and have recouped half my money in 2 breeding season's but I also count my holdbacks to drop my number. If I do not make another dollar I will still be happy ask yourself that same question. I love ball pythons

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Stock market is just as big of a game if not more-so than ball python investment! :O

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Originally Posted by Dave763

Do yourself a favor and put that 20K into gold or silver. Ball python prices are falling faster than you might imagine.
Any thought of ball pythons as an investment is not a wise idea, although I'm sure many breeders would have you believe otherwise.

Look at what the prices were, say 3 years ago to where they are today...it's sick, and I see no sign that prices have stabilized.

As hyper inflation kicks in and the dollar continues to shrink you wont be able to give them away.

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Well, see.. that 20K isn't his to spend. He's getting it from an investor for an established business, so there isn't really any reason he should not get these animals if he has the husbandry, feeding, facility, and reputation taken care of.


Personally, I would look at some of the combinations you could make with the current ball pythons you have, and get a couple good animals with Recessive and Co-dominant traits mixed into single individuals. You'll have good clutches and lots of traits to work with and potentially even create something new! I would not buy a recessive morph that costs 18,000 that has no other genes. Any revenue and profit would be limited to breeders and it would be too localized.

Just my opinion. ;)

YOu had some great advice here however I am confused you are in business with a well known Miami breeder yet you are asking what you should invest 20K in?

Any well known breeder who is a savvy business man would not need help to know what to invest in next :confuzd:

If I was to invest 20K (definitely not planning on it) I would rely on my own common sense and would not need help to spend that money ;)

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Originally Posted by Deborah

YOu had some great advice here however I am confused you are in business with a well known Miami breeder yet you are asking what you should invest 20K in?

Any well known breeder who is a savvy business man would not need help to know what to invest in next :confuzd:

If I was to invest 20K (definitely not planning on it) I would rely on my own common sense and would not need help to spend that money ;)

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From what he said, I'm taking a gander that the breeder is trusting him to make the decision and to do the research on the best morphs to purchase because he hasn't worked with very many ball python morphs in the past.

This guy seems more of a lizard and turtle breeder who is looking into ball pythons.

Just how I interpreted it.

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Originally Posted by Dave763

Do yourself a favor and put that 20K into gold or silver.

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There are many investment opportunities out there... gold and silver in my opinion is currently "hyper inflated"

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Any thought of ball pythons as an investment is not a wise idea, although I'm sure many breeders would have you believe otherwise.

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Are you saying breeders like myself that are realistic and believe that there IS money to be made are purposely misleading?

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Look at what the prices were, say 3 years ago to where they are today...it's sick, and I see no sign that prices have stabilized.

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Prices are very stable. They are measurably falling. Unstable prices would be up one year, down the next, seriously down the next then back up, etc. Any savvy person can predict next season pretty accurately.

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As hyper inflation kicks in and the dollar continues to shrink you wont be able to give them away.

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Living in fear man. Makes me wish I had never "invested" !! Best business decision I have ever made.

I want people to be smart with what they do with their money, ball pythons or not... If you're talking from your personal experience, please share your experience.

Justin K.

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

Stock market is just as big of a game if not more-so than ball python investment! :O



Well, see.. that 20K isn't his to spend. He's getting it from an investor for an established business, so there isn't really any reason he should not get these animals if he has the husbandry, feeding, facility, and reputation taken care of.


Personally, I would look at some of the combinations you could make with the current ball pythons you have, and get a couple good animals with Recessive and Co-dominant traits mixed into single individuals. You'll have good clutches and lots of traits to work with and potentially even create something new! I would not buy a recessive morph that costs 18,000 that has no other genes. Any revenue and profit would be limited to breeders and it would be too localized.

Just my opinion. ;)



From what he said, I'm taking a gander that the breeder is trusting him to make the decision and to do the research on the best morphs to purchase because he hasn't worked with very many ball python morphs in the past.

This guy seems more of a lizard and turtle breeder who is looking into ball pythons.

Just how I interpreted it.

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Thank you BLACKCRYSTAL finally some one that fully understands. Exactly how you described it, is my situation. I am simply looking for information on what morphs to work on. What is hot in the market. What are people talking about what are they not talking about.

I am doing my own research but I would like to hear what other people have to say.

Based on my current understanding Clowns, Paintballs, triple / quad co-doms / and supers are whats hot. We have a few nice ball bythons already but I need to do research on the elite morphs.

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Originally Posted by jkobylka

There are many investment opportunities out there... gold and silver in my opinion is currently "hyper inflated"



Are you saying breeders like myself that are realistic and believe that there IS money to be made are purposely misleading?



Prices are very stable. They are measurably falling. Unstable prices would be up one year, down the next, seriously down the next then back up, etc. Any savvy person can predict next season pretty accurately.



Living in fear man. Makes me wish I had never "invested" !! Best business decision I have ever made.

I want people to be smart with what they do with their money, ball pythons or not... If you're talking from your personal experience, please share your experience.

Justin K.

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I pretty much agree with most everything that's been said here. I have not invested much money but I have invested hundreds if not nearing thousands of hours in developing software/web sites for Snake Breeders and I would consider myself semi-successful at it. I've done the majority of that work for Trade in Animals, animals that will continue to provide a stream of revenue long after the job has been completed.

I don't see how that's a bad investment ;).

I think you have gotten all the advice you possibly could concerning the money side of your question but no one has answered your actual question.

I have invested quite a lot. I dont yet have a website but I am getting to know quite alot of people on here and through word of mouth. I do believe you should get some recessive genes but like other people said, dont invest in a bunch of visuals or you will spend all the money on just a couple snakes.

Go for yearlings at least. Co-doms that are het. Maybe buy a couple visual males and then females that are say, pastel or super pastel het for the recessive trait. Your hatch odds will be higher than if you breed het to het. There are tons of good co-dom hets out there right now.

For females look into some co-doms or doms that are not over used yet. Things that have not been crossed with everything yet. Like the dark morphs, the light morphs like fire, vanilla, lemonback. Of course get some normal breeder females. They are very affordable late summer. Then Id get a couple double or triple co-dom males. Maybe one or 2 really good triple combos. That way you never get any normals with your breedings. Do research on the combos that are known or suspected of running into problems when combined with other morphs. How no one is sure if spider gene combined with spider gene if it produces viable babies. Or how woma balls create some amazing combos but are believed to be incompatible with some. How some recessives can cause kinking (like caramel) and that it is better to out breed unrelated animals to help prevent kinking. Etc..

If you are looking to make it a good investment, its probably best to start with quite a few normal breeding females and a couple double co-dom males to ensure a decent return within the first one or 2 seasons. Then work up from there with holdbacks and future investments.

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

Stock market is just as big of a game if not more-so than ball python investment! :O



Well, see.. that 20K isn't his to spend. He's getting it from an investor for an established business, so there isn't really any reason he should not get these animals if he has the husbandry, feeding, facility, and reputation taken care of.


Personally, I would look at some of the combinations you could make with the current ball pythons you have, and get a couple good animals with Recessive and Co-dominant traits mixed into single individuals. You'll have good clutches and lots of traits to work with and potentially even create something new! I would not buy a recessive morph that costs 18,000 that has no other genes. Any revenue and profit would be limited to breeders and it would be too localized.

Just my opinion. ;)

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The stock market is all about knowledge and putting in some work to be successful. Same with ball pythons if you don't know squat about them or how to properly take care and breed them etc your stuck. Come on now let's be honest here how much do you think a pied will be in 5 yrs???? Come on. Now take a good guess? I absolutely love my hobby and not going against it but the future is just like the corn snake market.

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Originally Posted by Emilio

The stock market is all about knowledge and putting in some work to be successful. Same with ball pythons if you don't know squat about them or how to properly take care and breed them etc your stuck. Come on now let's be honest here how much do you think a pied will be in 5 yrs???? Come on. Now take a good guess? I absolutely love my hobby and not going against it but the future is just like the corn snake market.

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Corn snake market?! I dont think thats going to be an issue any time soon... Its all about how you play your cards and push yourself, just like any other buisness. It may be unpredictable but still profitable, at very least a hobby that can easily pay for itself if done right. All that being said even if i start making decent money off my hobby I will never quit my job hoping to make it my living, just an extra source. Ohh and last but not least animal hoarders dont make any money.

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Originally Posted by NatelovesBPs

Corn snake market?! I dont think thats going to be an issue any time soon... Its all about how you play your cards and push yourself, just like any other buisness. It may be unpredictable but still profitable, at very least a hobby that can easily pay for itself if done right. All that being said even if i start making decent money off my hobby I will never quit my job hoping to make it my living, just an extra source. Ohh and last but not least animal hoarders dont make any money.

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I agree with most everything you just posted.;)

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Originally Posted by Emilio

The stock market is all about knowledge and putting in some work to be successful. Same with ball pythons if you don't know squat about them or how to properly take care and breed them etc your stuck. Come on now let's be honest here how much do you think a pied will be in 5 yrs???? Come on. Now take a good guess? I absolutely love my hobby and not going against it but the future is just like the corn snake market.

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BG doesn't think a Pied will be worth 1/3 of what it's worth now, but BG will bet you this. If you bought a Pied male now and some females to breed it to, you could easily make ten times your money in 5 years if you have any clue what you're doing. Pieds are one of the best investments in the game. BG would break it down for yah, but he's in one of his lazy moods.:D

There is no way you can possibly make that same claim with the "stock market". Well...you can make it, but BG will call you a con artist and a liar.:P:D

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Originally Posted by Big Gunns

BG doesn't think a Pied will be worth 1/3 of what it's worth now, but BG will bet you this. If you bought a Pied male now and some females to breed it to, you could easily make ten times your money in 5 years if you have any clue what you're doing. Pieds are one of the best investments in the game. BG would break it down for yah, but he's in one of his lazy moods.:D

There is no way you can possibly make that same claim with the "stock market". Well...you can make it, but BG will call you a con artist and a liar.:P:D

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bingo on the pieds. you've GOT to have some pieds going if you want consistent $ coming in. I'm amazed at how well they've held up $ wise.

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Originally Posted by Big Gunns

BG doesn't think a Pied will be worth 1/3 of what it's worth now, but BG will bet you this. If you bought a Pied male now and some females to breed it to, you could easily make ten times your money in 5 years if you have any clue what you're doing. Pieds are one of the best investments in the game. BG would break it down for yah, but he's in one of his lazy moods.:D

There is no way you can possibly make that same claim with the "stock market". Well...you can make it, but BG will call you a con artist and a liar.:P:D

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I have my pied project and will make some bad arse animals and get some return off them too. But my point was exactly that if the pied is worth 1/3 of whats its worth now, thats sad man cause shiz that was the king of the hill.:oops: I don't know I guess my frusration came out in this thread, I hope people are getting into these bad arse animals to take great care of them even when there not a big money maker. :cool:

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Originally Posted by WesleyTF

bingo on the pieds. you've GOT to have some pieds going if you want consistent $ coming in. I'm amazed at how well they've held up $ wise.

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Held up money wise? It wasn't that long ago that they were selling for 30k and up! I don't think that they have held up at all. Now they are selling 700 to 2k. That's in what about 5 years? That's a considerable drop. Too many people that are out there for a quick buck that are willing to slash prices to get that sell. They ruin it for every one because they don't care.

Designer Morphs by John Berry

Investment wise:
-I wouldn't breed normals or hets(males or females). Your clutches will produce them anyway. ---This is my opinion from a business point of veiw.

I enjoy breeding my snakes as a hobby! Yes, I've sold snakes and had some return on my "investment". No, I don't think there is anything wrong with breeding normals and hets. But, on the other hand, this is a post about owning a reptile business and making money breeding reptiles.

Just so no one bashes my opinion too hard.
I have some hets in my breeding program. I wish they were the visual morph. Then all the babies would have the desired paint job!

People overreact to price drops of morphs. Such drops should be expected in this type of market. For example, I invested in a newer morph approx. 4 years ago. In 2008 the price dropped to 1/4 of what the price was two years earlier. Sounds like a bad "investment" right?? Well, I produced 11 not including the hets. I made my money back plus some and I still have the adults to breed. I hesitate using the word "investment" but this isn't a bad way to make money doing something you love. Make good decisions, learn from your mistakes and enjoy.

There's sooo many options. Really depends on what you like best/your goals.

BUT...
If I had $20K to start a business, I'd be buying super double co-doms. I love Sterlings! You could also go with super-blasts, killerbees, x-X-leucistics, etc. With these you will of course still get lower end morphs but no normals. Keep a few select animals each year. In two-three years you could end up with those quad morphs. Expand with the money you get from these.

And as mentioned, you can't go wrong with pieds. Clowns are also a favorite of mine(hopefully I'll get one this year, fingers crossed). The super discos and paintballs are pretty neat too; however I don't know what these cost at the moment.

I'd also get a hidden gene woma to start working into some projects. Gotta love those infernos and enchinfernos!

***Big thing here for me is the quality. Shop around and take your time. There are tons of animals out there. I'll spend more $ on a younger quality animal than I would an "eh" breeder size animal any day.***

Just make sure you can sell to the average person. If you get a bunch of $20k plus animals and no lower ends you won't make as much. Selling 10 @ $2K just seems easier. Of course, this is from the point of view of a 22yo that's just really getting into the whole breeding side of things. You have to take what sounds best for you and figure out what works. Good luck!

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Originally Posted by JennM

There's sooo many options. Really depends on what you like best/your goals.

BUT...
If I had $20K to start a business, I'd be buying super double co-doms. I love Sterlings! You could also go with super-blasts, killerbees, x-X-leucistics, etc. With these you will of course still get lower end morphs but no normals. Keep a few select animals each year. In two-three years you could end up with those quad morphs. Expand with the money you get from these.

And as mentioned, you can't go wrong with pieds. Clowns are also a favorite of mine(hopefully I'll get one this year, fingers crossed). The super discos and paintballs are pretty neat too; however I don't know what these cost at the moment.

I'd also get a hidden gene woma to start working into some projects. Gotta love those infernos and enchinfernos!

***Big thing here for me is the quality. Shop around and take your time. There are tons of animals out there. I'll spend more $ on a younger quality animal than I would an "eh" breeder size animal any day.***

Just make sure you can sell to the average person. If you get a bunch of $20k plus animals and no lower ends you won't make as much. Selling 10 @ $2K just seems easier. Of course, this is from the point of view of a 22yo that's just really getting into the whole breeding side of things. You have to take what sounds best for you and figure out what works. Good luck!

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Funny thing about that "hidden gene" Woma. It's so well "hidden" nobody seems able to find it.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

LOL Right BG! Have to pick one up from NERD.

I was researching them a bit a few weeks ago. Don't they look different than the normal womas? Pattern wise?

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Originally Posted by David Green

People overreact to price drops of morphs. Such drops should be expected in this type of market. For example, I invested in a newer morph approx. 4 years ago. In 2008 the price dropped to 1/4 of what the price was two years earlier. Sounds like a bad "investment" right?? Well, I produced 11 not including the hets. I made my money back plus some and I still have the adults to breed. I hesitate using the word "investment" but this isn't a bad way to make money doing something you love. Make good decisions, learn from your mistakes and enjoy.

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Very good post. A lot of people seam to be forgetting your going to produce plenty of offspring to sell. So even if these snakes prices do drop, your going to most likely make back the difference within 1-2 clutches.

I'm not sure what you have atm, or where you are at........but my recs would be to ask the following questions.

1. Do I want 1-2 elite morphs? Elite are nice but your market base is minimal...how many young adults in this hobby passion have 4k to drop on a snake? Most will come up with 500-1000? Just a thought? When you are in business you need to have supply that covers the masses....just my opinion
2. Or do I want consistent, base morphs that most need to build?
3. Do I have appropriate caging /husbandry? Hold up to time?
4. Marketing?
5. Have I considered tax impact on sales and what that will be?
6. Base funds for long term feeding and vet bills?

I could go on, but if I had 20 k i would not go to the top morphs, i would buy below and create the above......just my opinion...

If I was you, I would buy the least number of snakes I could, and the highest quality and most sought after Morphs. I would not buy just double Co Doms because they are pretty easy to make. I would be looking at some of the new morphs out there that have very few people working on them: Ghi, Paintball, and to a lesser extent, the Desert or Desert Ghosts. I would also buy Super Stripe ingredients and probably Crystal ingredients. A Bannana would not be a bad animal to get either. If you are spending that kind of money, cash, I would ask for some extras too. For example, if you buy a Desert Spider male, I would ask the breeder to throw in a Pastel female or two, or Lesser female, or something to sweeten the deal in your favor. Doing trades, you might not be able to do it, but spending cash, you should be able to pick up at least 20% of your $20K in free animals.

Dave

If you have 20K lying around purely for investment purposes, I hate to say it but ball pythons probably aren't your smartest investment. How about putting it into a couple nice blue chip stocks where instead of having to continually dump more money and time into husbandry, food, vet bills, etc. you can sit back and collect dividend checks and watch your investment grow. Just saying...unless you are doing it because you love snakes 20k worth, i think you might regret the decision in a couple years.

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Originally Posted by Big Gunns

You are forgetting something BG's rookie fan. Prices may go down on the animals, but you're not just letting them sit there...you're breeding them. You have to take the babies produced from the animal that dropped in value into account when considering whether it was a good investment or not.

Recessives will hold their value longer, but Co doms will see a faster return. If you don't want to see your snakes value seem to drop overnight....buy recessive. It will however take you a leeetle longer to see results.

Whatever you may be looking for though Ralphy....BG just might happen to know where you can find it.;):D

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Originally Posted by PurplePython

Very good post. A lot of people seam to be forgetting your going to produce plenty of offspring to sell. So even if these snakes prices do drop, your going to most likely make back the difference within 1-2 clutches.

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As you can see from BG's first post on this thread, he did not "forget".

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Originally Posted by jimbus

If you have 20K lying around purely for investment purposes, I hate to say it but ball pythons probably aren't your smartest investment. How about putting it into a couple nice blue chip stocks where instead of having to continually dump more money and time into husbandry, food, vet bills, etc. you can sit back and collect dividend checks and watch your investment grow. Just saying...unless you are doing it because you love snakes 20k worth, i think you might regret the decision in a couple years.

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BG has got to call you out. BG is gonna be mean here, but he feels it needs to be said. Big Gunns has seen many of these threads over the years and he has seen this same answer over and over by people who shouldn't be giving it. Unfortunately for you Jimmy, you listed the snakes you have in your signature. Now BG doubts you just sold off you large breeding collection, so how can you possibly be any way shape or form qualified to give any good advice on this thread? Maybe you have a good friend that's lost money, but BG doubts it. Sorry Jimmy, BG is kinda tired and cranky and your reply is a pet peeve of his. If you want a free male Pastel for BG picking on yah...he owes yah one.:gj:

Here's the deal people. Ball Python breeding is nowhere near what it was just a few short years ago, but there is still money to be made if you invest wisely. BG doesn't think many people are gonna get rich in this business anymore, but you can make money. A lot more money than collecting "dividend checks". You may need a leeetle luck though. You just never know if someone is gonna go Joey Bananas(Morph King) with the project you invested in. This is always a possibility.

There is a saying that most people have heard. "The greater the risk, the greater the reward". This is very true with snake breeding. It is no coincidence that the people who have invested the most(first), are making the most money in this business. You must invest wisely though(more than ever now), and you really need to do your homework and do things right. However, even an idiot can breed Balls which is fully evident by some of the people BG meets in this business, so most of you are in luck.:D

You really need to decide when you need to see a return on your investment also. If you need it quickly, you probably want to invest in a different snake than if you don't. This may mean you make less money in the long term. BG will admit though. This business is very volatile right now and there are many variables that can decide whether or not you make money. This list includes the jealous weasel(Joey Bananas and his ilk) that wants revenge on the big breeder, or the broke Banker that needs to pay his mortgage. You just never know what can hurt your investment. BG does believe there are many "safe" investments that you will make a lot more money than those "dividend checks" though. You'll just need to decide what kind of risk you want to take.

One last tip. Don't listen to any advice on this thread.:D Talk to people who are not trying to sell you anything like some of us may be;), and make a pros and cons list of everything you've learned....then go out and buy.....wisely.:gj: If you just go out and spend that money on the first thing that somebody has sold you on as a "good investment"....chances are it's not gonna be.