BP gets out of everything - need new cage idea

After Adalae got loose the last time, I added another lock to the cage and quadruple-checked the other two when I put her away. Lo and behold, she is out the next day! WTF?!

At this point, I know where she is but haven't bothered to catch her yet. She'll just get loose again. So, I have an idea as to how to prevent her from escaping again (it involves barricading the door...) but I am thinking that if she wants out THAT badly that I should get her a different cage. What she's in now is the equivalent of a 40gal. It's pretty much perfect for her - not too big and not too small. So I dont understand why she's leaving. Should I go smaller? Or bigger? She did this when she was young and in a tub, too.

The other thing is, do you think maybe it's a drive to breed? This is the first year she would be able to, so maybe that's what it is?

I don't know. I am at a loss right now. I don't know how to make her happy. Please give me your suggestions.

Ball pythons escape because they can. There is no real reason, if they can get out, they will. What you should focus on is HOW it's getting out. Any hole or gap about the size of their heads, they can fit out of.

Second, is you husbandry good? Temp, humidity and such? Enough hides?

How about a small rack setup?

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Originally Posted by vjb

How about a small rack setup?

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Agreed. A rack system is safe, secure, and I find all around easier.:salute:

A picture of your set-up would help. IE lock locations and types, ect.

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Originally Posted by Bleepr

A picture of your set-up would help. IE lock locations and types, ect.

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x2

The only pictures I have of the cages are here: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=83857

The husbandry is good. I've had these guys for years; I know what I'm doing when it comes to temps and humidity.

It is obvious the locks don't work so I don't need you guys to tell me that one. I will not use a rack set up because I don't like them. I don't think snakes should be forced to live in buckets all their lives. Granted, there are some that do best in that type of environment but I don't feel that mine benefit from it. They were kept in tubs as babies, and moved when they were larger and the move has worked well for everyone up until now.

If there is no reason for Adalae to escape other than "just because," then I will simply change the lock type and add a few other security measures. If there *is* something else I should be considering, then I want to do what's best for her. Whether that means moving her or not.

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Originally Posted by Mindibun

The only pictures I have of the cages are here: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=83857

The husbandry is good. I've had these guys for years; I know what I'm doing when it comes to temps and humidity.

It is obvious the locks don't work so I don't need you guys to tell me that one. I will not use a rack set up because I don't like them. I don't think snakes should be forced to live in buckets all their lives. Granted, there are some that do best in that type of environment but I don't feel that mine benefit from it. They were kept in tubs as babies, and moved when they were larger and the move has worked well for everyone up until now.

If there is no reason for Adalae to escape other than "just because," then I will simply change the lock type and add a few other security measures. If there *is* something else I should be considering, then I want to do what's best for her. Whether that means moving her or not.

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OK If Your temps and humidity are good I have no idea.... Only one thing... is still little too much space in my opinion in this cage so maybe She feel Insecure a little... Any way That is Smart-Ass Snake getting out from that secured cage...:weirdface

We're by no means questioning your husbandry. I'm sure its better then mine.

The thing is, ball pythons do escape just because. When I had 12, 3 of them escaped in 1 night and I found them in rather cold places. Why leave when they have all they need in their tubs? Just because.

I'm sure you know that if a snake can get its head through something, almost guaranteed that the rest of the body will follow. I would suggest that you close everything up and do a twice over looking for ANY opening. If you find one, tug on it a little to see if there is any flex, if there is, fix it. Locks on the front don't help anything if there is other places she can wiggle into.

I never meant to question your husbandry, or try to make you put your snake it a "tub". Just wanted to find any other reasons it might be wanting out.

If you have temps and humidity at the right place, all you need to do is look over your cage. Maybe the locks, though working, don't close the glass all the way? Maybe there is a hole or gap in the top?

They always try to get out, they want to explore...they're like kids: "I wonder if I can fit my head in this?" :rolleyes:

Also, I would put your ball python back into the tank, I think I read that you're not going to because it will get out again, you don't want it to get sick though. You can always watch him/her and see where they're getting out.

Other than that though, good luck finding the problem.:gj:

I already know what the problem is. I thought I said it before but I guess I didn't. The locks don't work. When she pushes against the glass she is heavy enough that she can make the locks pop open. :rolleyes: It's a solid wooden cage, so there aren't any "escape" holes anywhere.

If you guys all think she's getting out "just because" then I guess I'll ignore her and lock her back up. I just feel terrible doing it. There are some animals (ususally the fiestier ones) that I think should have never been introduced to captivity. Adalae is one of them.

I'd go ahead and try and fix the locks then. Or at least tape the door shut until you do...or place something in front of the door so she can't push on it?

Well, good luck.:snake:

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Originally Posted by Mindibun

I already know what the problem is. I thought I said it before but I guess I didn't. The locks don't work. When she pushes against the glass she is heavy enough that she can make the locks pop open. :rolleyes: It's a solid wooden cage, so there aren't any "escape" holes anywhere.

If you guys all think she's getting out "just because" then I guess I'll ignore her and lock her back up. I just feel terrible doing it. There are some animals (ususally the fiestier ones) that I think should have never been introduced to captivity. Adalae is one of them.

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Just fix the locks. Buy new locks? Set a big brick on top lol

Hi,

Probably the best way that won't spoil the looks of the cages would be some kind of rotating blocks or metal strips.

But a quick and dirty fix until then would be two brackets an inch down from the top level of the glass door and a length of dowel or wood dropped in from above tight against the glass.

Or adding more of those locks on the sides of the glass door as well - might prevent it flexing enough to pop open from the top locks.


dr del

I agree you should try adding an extra lock on each side to see if that helps.

I have a big Mojave female, she's an absolute doll, but she will try on a daily basis to push her enclosure open. If I forget to latch one side, she'll be shoving on it as hard as she can within 15 minutes.

However, if her cage is completely secure, she'll push for a little bit, then she gives up and is content to stay inside.

Gale

If you know that this BP is persistent on getting out, and you know that the locks don't work, why haven't you replaced them already?

If it were me, the moment I found out that the locks didn't work I would have been on my way to the hardware store to get new ones and buy back ups.

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Originally Posted by Elise.m

If you know that this BP is persistent on getting out, and you know that the locks don't work, why haven't you replaced them already?

If it were me, the moment I found out that the locks didn't work I would have been on my way to the hardware store to get new ones and buy back ups.

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I asked the same question to myself. Maybe she likes hunting her bp down ;)

Well I will tell you all snakes will try to and many will succeed in escaping at some point in their lives of captivity. It is essential to make sure that they don’t and if they do you need to try and find them as soon as possible and then fixing the escape route.
Finding them alive is so much better than not. We had a beautiful albino Bull snake that got out only to find a home in our front loading washing machine. He found a small hole behind the control panel. Needless to say we found him months later due to the odder and ooze.

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Originally Posted by Elise.m

If you know that this BP is persistent on getting out, and you know that the locks don't work, why haven't you replaced them already?

If it were me, the moment I found out that the locks didn't work I would have been on my way to the hardware store to get new ones and buy back ups.

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I love how everybody thinks they know better than you. The first few times she got out it was due to my negligence. Don't even start on me about that; it's been discussed already. So the next time I checked the locks a hundred times before turning off the light and calling it a day. Next morning she was out. THAT is when I knew the locks couldn't hold her. Not before. Don't be so judgemental. :/

Well, the monster is caught and in her prison again. I already had Raven out so I thought I'd take a photo or two of them together. Adalae had other ideas...

She was royally peeved about being caught. She fought to get away from me, she tried to run several times, she did everything short of hiss and bite. At least she knows who feeds her. :mad: Brat.

Anyway, Raven on the left, behaving, and Adalae trying to run away:

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...aefound001.jpg

Two seconds later:

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...aefound003.jpg

And Raven, still behaving:

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...aefound002.jpg

Eh, on the plus side she seems to have healed up 100% from the coffee cup incident. I knew when she left that she must have been feeling alright. :rolleyes: I just picture her having the attitude of, "You think this tin can can hold me? I've WALKED out of better joints than this!"

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Originally Posted by Mindibun

I love how everybody thinks they know better than you. The first few times she got out it was due to my negligence. Don't even start on me about that; it's been discussed already. So the next time I checked the locks a hundred times before turning off the light and calling it a day. Next morning she was out. THAT is when I knew the locks couldn't hold her. Not before. Don't be so judgemental. :/

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Maybe you shouldn't take offense to everything said. I simply stated what I would do, and asked why you hadn't done that. Maybe a simple "I hadn't gotten around to it yet" would have sufficed instead of you jumping the gun and assuming that I think I'm better than you.

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Originally Posted by Elise.m

If you know that this BP is persistent on getting out, and you know that the locks don't work, why haven't you replaced them already?

If it were me, the moment I found out that the locks didn't work I would have been on my way to the hardware store to get new ones and buy back ups.

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lol :rolleye2: :confused:

that made me laugh

i checked out your pictures of your enclosures, howcome they dont have any substrate? Are they basically on tile? I don't know how confortable that can be to live on day after day for a BP.

This is the internet. Things meant to sound one way can come off another. Apparently I misjudged your post, so I'm sorry for "jumping" you. The only reason I am so quick to defend myself is because many members here are quick to berate when they think someone is less than perfect in their husbandry. I have taken a lot of nonesense over this whole situation, and I am tired of it. It was an honest mistake that anyone could have made ... I just happened to have made it 4 or 5 times. XD

I'm sorry if I seemed harsh. I am not a harsh person.

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Originally Posted by PurplePython

i checked out your pictures of your enclosures, howcome they dont have any substrate? Are they basically on tile? I don't know how confortable that can be to live on day after day for a BP.

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Raven has substrate. Adalae does not because she doesn't like it. She won't sit on it. Instead, she plays "dont touch the hot lava" and climbs on the edge of her water bowl, hides, rocks, etc. to avoid the dirt. So she just has paper. she also doesn't have any decor in her cage because she shoves it all to one side and gets angry over it. I swear, if you just stuck her in a big box with some tree branches, that'd be all she wants. She doesn't even use her hides properly - she sits on top of them. She's a very frustrating snake!

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Originally Posted by Mindibun

This is the internet. Things meant to sound one way can come off another. Apparently I misjudged your post, so I'm sorry for "jumping" you. The only reason I am so quick to defend myself is because many members here are quick to berate when they think someone is less than perfect in their husbandry. I have taken a lot of nonesense over this whole situation, and I am tired of it. It was an honest mistake that anyone could have made ... I just happened to have made it 4 or 5 times. XD

I'm sorry if I seemed harsh. I am not a harsh person.

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No worries :) It is the internet, it tough to judge how a person is trying to say something through text. I often have to read things multiple times just to make sure I'm reading it the right way.

I'm also sorry if I came off harsh. If I don't have anything nice to say, I don't say it... Or type it.

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Originally Posted by Mindibun

Raven has substrate. Adalae does not because she doesn't like it. She won't sit on it. Instead, she plays "dont touch the hot lava" and climbs on the edge of her water bowl, hides, rocks, etc. to avoid the dirt. So she just has paper. she also doesn't have any decor in her cage because she shoves it all to one side and gets angry over it. I swear, if you just stuck her in a big box with some tree branches, that'd be all she wants. She doesn't even use her hides properly - she sits on top of them. She's a very frustrating snake!

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lol wow i have never heard of a snake pushing everything aside like that. that would be very frustrating. my snake is somewhat weird when it comes to his hides also. Sometimes he will be in one of his two main hides, but for some reason every now and then he will either just lay in the middle of this hollowed out log, or he will just hide behind all of my fake plants, lol. Its like he creates his own hiding spots every once in awhile.

I have a big girl that likes to roam. To make sure she has the space she wants (I keep my BPs in a rack) I get her out when I see her cruising her tub.

On the note of her pushing everything around. One of my boys does that. I have newspaper with aspen on top of it (the newspaper is just to make my life easier at cleaning) and the second I put new bedding in his tub he is out shoving it all around. You can glace at the rack and know which tub he is in b/c everything is shoved to one side, the newspaper balled up almost in places, and the aspen in a pile. He moves his water bowl and hide, then sleeps between the layers of newspaper half the time. Any time I fix it, he does it again. He's my lil interior decorator.

However, I've found that that is simply how he likes it. He does fine with everything all jacked up, so I leave it. Have you tried giving her bedding she can really move around and giving her time to get used to it? She may just be one that likes to redecorate her cage...

Good luck whatever you decide. I know you may feel bad about keeping such an active snake in a cage, but since she is much safer there, I wouldn't feel too bad about it. Just give her what "exploring" time you can when you can get her out, and enjoy knowing she is safe when you can't. ^_^

Hrm, snakes have really good memory (which was really surprising to my parents)--they just need to get out once and that's the route they will try first until that fails. I would stay with her for a day/night/whenever she gets active (or set up a camera if you don't have that kind of patience) and figure out exactly HOW she's getting out. She might be doing something you would have never imagined her to do.

The solution might be simple, then again it might not be.

I think your set-up is amazing, if I had that kind of dough to get this style (and didn't move around from school to home so much) I totally would. But it seems to me she has some sort of leverage against it to pop it open, or can bend a portion of it to get out.

My biggest fear would be that you only semi-fix the problem and she gets stuck trying the same way she got out before so I'd watch her until I find out how she's doing it.

(I once sat up until 4 in the morning trying to figure out how my female was escaping

it was not a good day after.

=_=;;;

but on the plus side ever since I fixed it she hasn't escaped again.)

Everything you have described so far sounds like a stressed snake.

Perhaps you could try filling the enclosure with crumpled paper to simulate a larger amount of "cover"? Then over time, start removing more and more of the paper until there is none left.

I would give substrate another try. She might not like it at first but she should get used to it after a few weeks. Perhaps she doesn't use her hides because she doesn't like the tile.

I know your husbandry is spot on but some snakes are a little more picky when it comes to security.

I don't know where you would find them but I have locks on my boaphile cage that work perfectly. maybe you could check out their website so you can see what they look like and try to find something similair.

Good luck! She does seem like a handful :P

The photos look like perhaps the latches aren't close enough to to corner of the door and the snake is able to bow the corner out and squeeze through. You could make a new door using thicker, sturdier Plexiglas or add more latches to the existing door.

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Originally Posted by dsirkle

The photos look like perhaps the latches aren't close enough to to corner of the door and the snake is able to bow the corner out and squeeze through. You could make a new door using thicker, sturdier Plexiglas or add more latches to the existing door.

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i would do this.. like 2-3 on each side and 6 on top ;) lets see her get out of that :gj:

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

Everything you have described so far sounds like a stressed snake.

Perhaps you could try filling the enclosure with crumpled paper to simulate a larger amount of "cover"? Then over time, start removing more and more of the paper until there is none left.

I would give substrate another try. She might not like it at first but she should get used to it after a few weeks. Perhaps she doesn't use her hides because she doesn't like the tile.

I know your husbandry is spot on but some snakes are a little more picky when it comes to security.

I don't know where you would find them but I have locks on my boaphile cage that work perfectly. maybe you could check out their website so you can see what they look like and try to find something similair.

Good luck! She does seem like a handful :P

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She is not stressed. She DOES have crumpled paper in there now, but - again - she has pushed it all to the back of the cage. A stressed snake wouldn't just lie around out in the open when she has hides available to her. She doesn't show any of the signs of being stressed, actually, other than the fact that she apparently wants to leave. Also, it isn't tile, it's linoleum and it's heated. I don't understand why everyone keeps saying "oh they must not like the tile." What's not to like? Does everyone honestly assume they'd rather lay on pokey wood shavings than a smooth warm surface? How does everyone here know what is "comfortable" to a snake and what is not? Have you asked them? :confused:

I have a large batch of aspen on order for the rabbits, so I'll probably put some in her cage. Maybe just half the cage or something so she can get away from it if she wants. I have tried all kinds of bedding with her - shavings, paper, coconut stuff, that eco-earth, even cedar chips. She just doesn't like it.

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Originally Posted by Mindibun

She is not stressed. She DOES have crumpled paper in there now, but - again - she has pushed it all to the back of the cage. A stressed snake wouldn't just lie around out in the open when she has hides available to her. She doesn't show any of the signs of being stressed, actually, other than the fact that she apparently wants to leave. Also, it isn't tile, it's linoleum and it's heated. I don't understand why everyone keeps saying "oh they must not like the tile." What's not to like? Does everyone honestly assume they'd rather lay on pokey wood shavings than a smooth warm surface? How does everyone here know what is "comfortable" to a snake and what is not? Have you asked them? :confused:

I have a large batch of aspen on order for the rabbits, so I'll probably put some in her cage. Maybe just half the cage or something so she can get away from it if she wants. I have tried all kinds of bedding with her - shavings, paper, coconut stuff, that eco-earth, even cedar chips. She just doesn't like it.

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If you don't want help then don't ask for it. You just keep shutting down everyone's ideas or misinterpret comments as "attacks".

:/

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

If you don't want help then don't ask for it. You just keep shutting down everyone's ideas or misinterpret comments as "attacks".

:/

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x2

No advice for the escapes, but try what I do for the know-it-alls: ignore them and stick with the people who are really trying to help.;)

Zilla Critter Cage tanks are the best, I think. I have friend who has racks, and her animals escape fairly often... and BHB talked about his problems with getting the racks the right size to fit his tubs and prevent escapes in a recent episode of SnakebytesTV. I'll eventually get some racks when I start producing hatchlings, but I'm not looking forward to it.

Anyway, I like tanks, and I prefer the Zilla tanks. Their locking screens are the most robust IMO. My Black Sand tank also came with a locking screen, but the locking bit was difficult to use, made of cheap plastic, and eventually it warped and broke. And then my clever black pastel female figured out how to push the screen open, and I found her cruising the vodka and gin bottles on the sidebar in the dining room at 4am.

I also have a Exo Terra tank, but they're pricey, and they still strike me as a bit fragile as compared to the Zilla Critter Cages.

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Originally Posted by Mindibun

She is not stressed. She DOES have crumpled paper in there now, but - again - she has pushed it all to the back of the cage. A stressed snake wouldn't just lie around out in the open when she has hides available to her. She doesn't show any of the signs of being stressed, actually, other than the fact that she apparently wants to leave. Also, it isn't tile, it's linoleum and it's heated. I don't understand why everyone keeps saying "oh they must not like the tile." What's not to like? Does everyone honestly assume they'd rather lay on pokey wood shavings than a smooth warm surface? How does everyone here know what is "comfortable" to a snake and what is not? Have you asked them? :confused:

I have a large batch of aspen on order for the rabbits, so I'll probably put some in her cage. Maybe just half the cage or something so she can get away from it if she wants. I have tried all kinds of bedding with her - shavings, paper, coconut stuff, that eco-earth, even cedar chips. She just doesn't like it.

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How do you know she doesn't like it? Have you asked her? ;)

A month ago in your last thread you said you were going to install more locks. This may not have happened again if you had done that. Just a suggestion though.

OP, you're anthropomorphizing your snake a lot here. She's not angry with you for escaping, she was out in the open, and you came down to get her back (coming in from above is a predatory action) and she tried to escape from you.

People here are giving you excellent advice. When they see something that is done a little less often (like the tile type substrate) people are going to ask questions or ask you to explain. We aren't questioning your ability to care for your animals, we're just trying to figure out the problem you asked us for help with.

You have a beautiful cage set up. And I'm sure a stronger door or more locks would make it a better cage for your snake to stay in rather than get out of.

I had typed out responses to each of you, but then decided that was a little too wordy. Instead, let me just say that I am only shooting down ideas because I have either tried them already (which is the case with most of the given suggestions) or don't like them and would never want to try them.

It is apparent to me that I never should have started this thread. I asked a simple question, and it has turned into a sort of debate and scrutiny of my husbandry altogether. I have the right to keep my snakes as I see fit. I will put more locks on the cage.

This forum was great when I was a beginner, but now that I've been keeping these guys for several years, it seems like all I do is explain myself left and right. I'll try to keep my posts pictures-only from now on. I have been on this forum long enough to know that there will be many rude and childish remarks now, and comments about myself and my snake-keeping abilities. There will probably be plenty of sideways remarks at each other as well. I won't bother checking this thread again.

Thank you to the few of you who were helpful. You know who you are. ;)

Hi,

I still think L shaped brackets on either side and a bar of wood would be your best bet in the short term. :gj:

Kind of like this but prettier. :giggle:

http://www.brandi.org/photos/leonard...r_the_door.jpg


If you set it so that the bar stradles the joint between the glass and the top of the door hole (technical term :oops: ) it could be made to look quite natural.


dr del