All monitors have "venom" in their saliva?

So yesterday I was talking to a friend while handling this baby water monitor and he said that all monitors do have a little venom in their saliva. I was also watching part of that dumb fatal attraction show and they had also said that monitors have venom in their saliva.

Is this true and would this also include Tegus (since they are kind of considered monitors but are in their own category)?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CoolioTiffany

So yesterday I was talking to a friend while handling this baby water monitor and he said that all monitors do have a little venom in their saliva. I was also watching part of that dumb fatal attraction show and they had also said that monitors have venom in their saliva.

Is this true and would this also include Tegus (since they are kind of considered monitors but are in their own category)?

---

good question and i saw a video on youtube saying the same thing now im not sure how potent the venom is from what i understand its nothing really now about the tegu question i would also love to know! i hope someone responds soon thanks for posting this! :gj:

Monitors do have venom but its weak. It more less stops your blood from clotting where they bite you. Thats why you tend to bleed a bit more but its no big deal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tjm

Monitors do have venom but its weak. It more less stops your blood from clotting where they bite you. Thats why you tend to bleed a bit more but its no big deal.

---

Does this include Tegus as well? I know some people who've been bitten by monitors before and nothing happened so that is why I was curious to know this question. Thanks for the response!

I dont know anything about tegus. Sorry.

As far as I know, Komodos are the only monitors that have been proven to have any real venom. Monitors (wild ones at least, don't ask me about captive) have infectious saliva due to their rather unclean diets. So rather than a venom attacking the nervous system or cardiovascular, it just gets really infected.

Tegus and monitors do have an anticoagulant in their saliva, and that I can say from first hand (literally, my own hand) experience. A 3 foot tegu bit me and it bled for 3 days straight, non stop.

A while back on a show they did a ct scan or something on a komodo and found glands. The glands do produce venom. It comes up around their teeth and gums.

Not just Komodos..........

http://www.venomdoc.com/forums/viewt...62f5b0678cfbb1

C'mon guys - a simple search using "varanid venom" would have not only yielded you this thread but the actual paper.............

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CoolioTiffany

So yesterday I was talking to a friend while handling this baby water monitor and he said that all monitors do have a little venom in their saliva. I was also watching part of that dumb fatal attraction show and they had also said that monitors have venom in their saliva.

Is this true and would this also include Tegus (since they are kind of considered monitors but are in their own category)?

---

I say this in all honesty Tiff, with no attempts at being snide:

Don't you find it ironic that some people have condemned the "Fatal Attraction" episode with the Urutu and the monitors as disgusting and awful and full of untruths..........

..........and then you come to find that it was correct where many forum-goers were wrong - that monitors are venomous?

As for your question regarding tegus:

http://www.venomdoc.com/forums/viewt...highlight=tegu

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hulihzack

As far as I know, Komodos are the only monitors that have been proven to have any real venom. Monitors (wild ones at least, don't ask me about captive) have infectious saliva due to their rather unclean diets. So rather than a venom attacking the nervous system or cardiovascular, it just gets really infected.

Tegus and monitors do have an anticoagulant in their saliva, and that I can say from first hand (literally, my own hand) experience. A 3 foot tegu bit me and it bled for 3 days straight, non stop.

---

Zack:

Komodos were widely thought to kill prey by septicemia - bacterial infections of the blood - that was proven to be untrue.

The problem with that theory is that the death of large prey occured too quickly to be attributable to systemic bacterial poisoning. It's one of those urban legend things - sort of. While they have a mouth full of many strains of nasty bacteria, that's not what was causing rapid swelling and blood pressure/clotting changes.

thanks for posting the links skiploder. very interesting stuff on them.

stuck

searching Dr. Bryon Fry AND venom will do it.

Ive had so many beardies, this was a fun article to read

http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/s...05/1506321.htm

"For instance little bearded dragon lizards that cruise around the suburbs have classic rattlesnake venom, scientists report online today in the journal Nature.

But the venom is not dangerous to humans, says Dr Bryan Fry from the University of Melbourne's Australian Venom Research Unit, who led the international research team".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CoolioTiffany

So yesterday I was talking to a friend while handling this baby water monitor and he said that all monitors do have a little venom in their saliva.

---

Venom in some lizards including varanids is really old news, I'm surprised this still comes up on message boards (seemingly always with some guy answering "no it's bacteria"). 2002 called, it wants its misinformation back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by allergenic

Venom in some lizards including varanids is really old news, I'm surprised this still comes up on message boards (seemingly always with some guy answering "no it's bacteria"). 2002 called, it wants its misinformation back.

---

This is true that this information has been out a while. But to be fair, who randomly searches "Venom and Lizards"? I think I discovered it a while back in an obscure article in a science magazine while waiting at a Dr appointment. Even then, it wasnt on the front page.

Now, had the venom been discovered in small white kittens...everyone would immediately know. This is why we attempt to make our passion contagious. Information transfer will continue to be slow until we change minds.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skiploder

Zack:

Komodos were widely thought to kill prey by septicemia - bacterial infections of the blood - that was proven to be untrue.

The problem with that theory is that the death of large prey occured too quickly to be attributable to systemic bacterial poisoning. It's one of those urban legend things - sort of. While they have a mouth full of many strains of nasty bacteria, that's not what was causing rapid swelling and blood pressure/clotting changes.

---

Well BG has an interesting view on this since he has been to Komodo Island and talked with the guides about this. They were aware of the report that Dragons had venom. They however said it is not true. BG did not want to argue with them about it. He's not so sure that they could really know for sure. It was interesting that they said this though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Big Gunns

Well BG has an interesting view on this since he has been to Komodo Island and talked with the guides about this. They were aware of the report that Dragons had venom. They however said it is not true. BG did not want to argue with them about it. He's not so sure that they could really know for sure. It was interesting that they said this though.

---

BG? BG?

Are you Brian Grieg Fry?

I'm a big fan, BIG fan!

Were the guides wearing shoes?

I find it interesting that the guides debunked Fry's studies, I wonder when they are going to release their research (cue rimshot here).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skiploder

BG? BG?

Are you Brian Grieg Fry?

I'm a big fan, BIG fan!

Were the guides wearing shoes?

I find it interesting that the guides debunked Fry's studies, I wonder when they are going to release their research (cue rimshot here).

---

Funny you should ask that. One of the guides had dress shoes on. Something you might wear to a wedding.

The national shoe of Indonesia is the Flip flop though. Everyone including nurses in hospitals wear them. BG hates the flip flop. It's hot 24/7 365 though so BG understands.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Big Gunns

Funny you should ask that. One of the guides had dress shoes on. Something you might wear to a wedding.

The national shoe of Indonesia is the Flip flop though. Everyone including nurses in hospitals wear them. BG hates the flip flop. It's hot 24/7 365 though so BG understands.

---

Funny you should mention that - the last wedding I went to I wore flip flops.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skiploder

Funny you should mention that - the last wedding I went to I wore flip flops.

---

Move to Indo...you'd fit right in.:gj:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skiploder

Zack:

Komodos were widely thought to kill prey by septicemia - bacterial infections of the blood - that was proven to be untrue.

The problem with that theory is that the death of large prey occured too quickly to be attributable to systemic bacterial poisoning. It's one of those urban legend things - sort of. While they have a mouth full of many strains of nasty bacteria, that's not what was causing rapid swelling and blood pressure/clotting changes.

---

Thanks for clearing that up, clearly as far as I knew was not very far.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by allergenic

Venom in some lizards including varanids is really old news, I'm surprised this still comes up on message boards (seemingly always with some guy answering "no it's bacteria"). 2002 called, it wants its misinformation back.

---

Just because it was discovered several years ago does not mean it is common knowledge.

Thanks for the info Zack.:D

But.. does this mean that there is 3 venomous species of lizards now:O? I wanted a Komodo named Puppy...:(

Allergenic, not everyone knows this fact about monitors. Heck I search about a lot of things and I've never heard of this until now. So, I'm guessing if I didn't know this simple fact, I'm sure many others don't know it either..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hulihzack

Just because it was discovered several years ago does not mean it is common knowledge.

---

Just because you didn't know it, does not mean it's obscure?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by allergenic

Venom in some lizards including varanids is really old news, I'm surprised this still comes up on message boards (seemingly always with some guy answering "no it's bacteria"). 2002 called, it wants its misinformation back.

---

In science, something that's only a few years old is actually extremely new news if it's accurate. Just because you have been aware of it does not mean it's circulated through the populous of herp informants and keepers yet.

They have also been working on proving that DNA is a triple helix up at Northwestern Illinois U for over ten years, and spent a few billion dollars on it. But many people don't seem to 'know' something that's been going on for quite a while now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skiploder

Not just Komodos..........

http://www.venomdoc.com/forums/viewt...62f5b0678cfbb1

C'mon guys - a simple search using "varanid venom" would have not only yielded you this thread but the actual paper.............

---

VERY interesting! I did not know about all of this. I'll have to bookmark that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by allergenic

Just because you didn't know it, does not mean it's obscure?

---

I don't believe I was speaking for just myself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by allergenic

Just because you didn't know it, does not mean it's obscure?

---

Don't start up a riot on my thread..
I know how you can get so leave that on a down low.

It's now known that there are dozens of venomous lizards. The announcement of true venom in Komodos led people to look closer, and now they're finding it in other monitors (probably all of them), bearded dragons and other agamids, and in iguanids too.

According to Fry, "the “venom clade” includes the iguanians (of which chameleons are a subset), the anguids (legless and alligator lizards), and the monitors."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

It's now known that there are dozens of venomous lizards. The announcement of true venom in Komodos led people to look closer, and now they're finding it in other monitors (probably all of them), bearded dragons and other agamids, and in iguanids too.

According to Fry, "the “venom clade” includes the iguanians (of which chameleons are a subset), the anguids (legless and alligator lizards), and the monitors."

---

sssshhhhhhhh..........don't tell anyone this..........but also most colubrids are venomous........with the exception of elaphe, lampropeltis and pituophis......

.....yes Virginia - that garter snake in you backyard has venom.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

In science, something that's only a few years old is actually extremely new news if it's accurate. Just because you have been aware of it does not mean it's circulated through the populous of herp informants and keepers yet.

They have also been working on proving that DNA is a triple helix up at Northwestern Illinois U for over ten years, and spent a few billion dollars on it. But many people don't seem to 'know' something that's been going on for quite a while now.

---

You're trying to say that the failure of Steve down at the Chevy dealership to know about the discovery of a triple helix is the same thing as a supposed varanid enthusiast not knowing about several year old varanid specific information on a varanid specific message section of a message board. It's apples and oranges.

Anyway, for further reading, here's a more recent paper by Fry:
http://www.venomdoc.com/downloads/20...modo&Megalania

Rename the file with a .pdf extension to open.

Also, the older paper:
http://eebweb.arizona.edu/courses/Ec...mEvolution.pdf

Well, are these venoms of the snakes and lizards actually extremely effective? Like the Gilas and Beadeds causing you extreme pain when they inject their venom in, like the snakes in South America that can kill you pretty quickly once the venom is injected?

Hognose's venom is not very potent. I hear it can get as bad as a Copperhead bite, but I also hear that's rare. Boomslangs are a different story, I still don't see how they are considered a colubrid instead of an elapid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CoolioTiffany

Well, are these venoms of the snakes and lizards actually extremely effective? Like the Gilas and Beadeds causing you extreme pain when they inject their venom in, like the snakes in South America that can kill you pretty quickly once the venom is injected?

Hognose's venom is not very potent. I hear it can get as bad as a Copperhead bite, but I also hear that's rare. Boomslangs are a different story, I still don't see how they are considered a colubrid instead of an elapid.

---

The venom of the thrasops jacksonii is the same as the venom of the boomslang - the difference is in the effectiveness of the delivery system. A good bite from a boomslang, with it's three mobile teeth and compressor musculature can kill you, a bite from a nominally enlarged-fanged thrasops won't.

However, to small prey like a rodent, the venom does the exact same thing.

Many colubrids have venom on par with some elapids - the difference lies mainly in the effectiveness of the delivery system.

Many vipers have relatively weak venom, as do some elapids - again, a relatively weak venom in copious amounts injected into prey will produce more significant effects than the same venom will in smaller amounts chewed into a wound.

Tiff, I strongly suggest you check out Bryan Fry's Venomdoc forum and do a search on "colubrids" on there. Not only is it an informative site, but he breaks it all down in detail that only a guy who has actually intimately researched the subject can.

Wow this is a very interesting thread. In regards to the monitors ....I never knew. That would explain what happened when I got bit a few weeks ago. I was at the store and like an idiot...I went to touch one from the front. He was so quick and got me on my finger. My fault!! But I did not even feel it....but it bled like crazy which I thought was so wierd. No other problems just blood running down my arm. Now I know. ;)