Gravid ball python Rubbermaid container: help needed!

I was wondering if a Rubbermaid container
measuring 29x18x6 in, 41 qt. would be large enough for a gravid ball python to lay her eggs in and incubate them in, and if not, what would be an appropriate size? By the way, this is with a lid on. Not in a larger enclosure or anything. So the Rubbermaid container will be her entire enclosure starting right before she's due and ending after the eggs start to hatch. Is this large enough for her and the eggs? Thanks

You arent using a incubator. Going el naturale. I never hear of people doing it this way so I dont know. Gonna depend on her size

She is about 4ft. 3in. last time I measured her. I figured she would know what she's doing more than I would. I've never tried breeding before and only came across this because I was told she was a male when I got her (about 5 years ago) and I decided to get another male. Then I noticed them locking up.

facepalm right there.... not only did you decide it was ok to keep the snakes together... you put what you thought were 2 males together?

Also, from what I've read, maternal incubation is extremely difficult to get down as the conditions must be perfect.


A 41qt is plenty big enough for most bps.

Sometimes two males can lock up so there is a chance that she is still a he. Unless you actually feel eggs in "her".

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Originally Posted by crusher

facepalm right there.... not only did you decide it was ok to keep the snakes together... you put what you thought were 2 males together?

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I dont do it personally but I have seen multiple balls housed together many many times. If you are not breeding or anything like that I dont see why it is a huge no no. If you just have them in your living room to show off and they eat fine and are healthy what's the big deal? Is there actually something wrong with it? I dont know thats why I'm asking. Im not trying to be a smart ass.

The main problems are stress and illness being easily spread. Putting a male and female together even without trying to breed them can give you an unexpected surprise. It only takes once ;)

The issue here (for me at least) is thinking it is ok to house two males together knowing that males can be very territorial and fight/dominate each other, especially this time of year.

That being said I'm not against experienced/knowledgeable keepers choosing to keep multiple snakes together and I have seen it done successfully by others for many years.

I'm so going to get yelled at (again) for this, but I've had three males together for about six months now. I had two unfortunate accidents with two of the three tanks, and had an extra 40 gallon sitting around, so they're all in there until I can get some nice new cages or a rack. They all eat fine, never had one miss a meal, and have tons of places to hide, and none of them exhibit stress. However, the oldest one is just about a year, so they're not too concerned with breeding yet, so maybe that helps? So, it can be done, and it can be done well, but you do have to be a careful.

There have been cases of hatchlings eating one another. Just thought you should know.

The 41 quart is large enough, but you're going to need some sort of arrangement that will allow you to keep he humidity up at 80% or so in the cage while she's incubating. If not, the eggs won't do so well with her.

It's much easier just to buy a $40 hovabator and a $40 thermostat, and a bag of vermiculite. You could shell out $100 for a GOOD thermostat if you wanted the best success rate.

It's even possible to use the wafer thermostat that comes with the Hovabator, but you have to...well, hover over it. <lol> Set it up a month in advance and make sure you have it in a place with stable temps night and day, and use a min/max to be certain you have it set right. You may need to adjust it whenever the room temperature changes. It can give you white hairs, but it can work.

People use artificial incubation because you get a better hatch rate, and it's hard to keep conditions in the mom's cage right for eggs. She can try her best, but she's stuck with the environment you provide, and can only raise the temperature and humidity around the eggs a little bit.

Yes, I do keep them together. It is what works for me. Never had any problems, other than the unexpected pregnancy. They eat ok and are very healthy. If ever there were any problems I would have separated them immediately. Obviously, after discovering that they are of the opposite sex, I'm going to separate them. Definitely don't want the stress to them (especially her) of breeding continuously, (they are always at it). She's definitely a she. Definitely eggs forming in there. Thanks for all the feedback, but I'm pretty firm on letting her incubate them. I definitely understand all the controversy but this is how I want to do things.

A friend of mine let his female het albino incubate her eggs last year.They slowly died because its IMPOSSIBLE to keep the conditions perfect :(.In my opinion its a waste of time and unneeded stress on the snake.Why force her to wrap herself around eggs that have a higher chance of going bad?

I've heard of people who let the females incubate, and have a little bit of success. My problem is having a job though. I can't monitor my humidity literally 24 hours per day. Hell, building an incubator with an old refer some heat tape, and a good thermostat works great.

I must say though your chances of her incubating them successfully without an actual termite mound or mud hut in your living room is pretty slim.

My first year of bp breeding I did maternal incubation and had 100% success rate. Humidity is the key. I started out with just the typical aspen, but the eggs rapidly started drying out. I removed as much aspen as I could without pissing off the mom too much and disturbing her and filled the tub with cypress mulch. I'd spray it down as needed with water to keep humidity ~90%. Eggs plumped back up and in a couple of months I had hatchlings. Kept the tub set at 90 the entire time.

Honestly, if set up right, its not hard to do at all IMO.

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Originally Posted by crusher

facepalm right there.... not only did you decide it was ok to keep the snakes together... you put what you thought were 2 males together?

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I'm not excusing what she did, but keep in mind that often people just don't know. If you go to almost any pet shop, they'll have a dozen bps housed together and often people are told its OK to house them together. Unfortunately there's a lot of misinformation out there about keeping pets in general. So in that case I don't really fault the person. All we can do is point out the correct way to do it and hope they pay attention and listen.

Now that being said, if someone is told proper husbandry and care and still ignores it, then they deserve condemnation IMO.

I would say the 41qt tub would be big enough. If you're using it with a humidity-friendly substrate (I use cypress) and with lid on the humidity shouldn't be that much of an issue. I let my female maternally incubate last year but she was being kept in a 40g breeder tank and I gave her a lay box lined with dampened sphagnum moss. I also kept a thermometer and hygrometer in there with her to keep tabs on the temps and humidity but the best gauge for adequate humidity is the the clutch of eggs itself. Too much and they look distended and patches of the egg shell may become discolored, too little humidity and they shrivel and harden. Hope it helps and good luck.

I would think the container isn't tall enough..

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Originally Posted by Jenasourousrex

Yes, I do keep them together. It is what works for me. Never had any problems, other than the unexpected pregnancy. They eat ok and are very healthy. If ever there were any problems I would have separated them immediately. Obviously, after discovering that they are of the opposite sex, I'm going to separate them. Definitely don't want the stress to them (especially her) of breeding continuously, (they are always at it). She's definitely a she. Definitely eggs forming in there. Thanks for all the feedback, but I'm pretty firm on letting her incubate them. I definitely understand all the controversy but this is how I want to do things.

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You might change your mind when you see how thin she is after laying eggs. She won't eat for the sixty days of incubation.

It actually irritates me to hear so many people with the "it can't be done" attitude. It seems as though a lot of people think that you have to turn the entire enclosure into an incubator if you go the maternal incubation route, which isn't the case. If you do it right (research, research, research), it can be done and it's truly not that difficult as long as the mom is willing to do her part. If I can do it, anyone can.

My foray into maternal incubation last year:
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=95885

Not to mention she isn't going to want to eat the whole time she is incubating them..

No one is saying it CANT be done.

It's just difficult to do and it puts the female through a lot of unnecessary time and effort.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

You might change your mind when you see how thin she is after laying eggs. She won't eat for the sixty days of incubation.

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Originally Posted by 2kdime

It's just difficult to do and it puts the female through a lot of unnecessary time and effort.

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Don't we all wish we had a break from parenting:rolleyes:. Snakes should be glad they don't have to put up with 9 months of it!

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Originally Posted by twistedtails

Don't we all wish we had a break from parenting:rolleyes:. Snakes should be glad they don't have to put up with 9 months of it!

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*18 years of it!

It seems to me that the biggest issue that everyone has with maternal incubation is making sure that the female if fat enough to do it all over again next season. I'm not going to be breeding her next season.

Pretty sure only one person mentioned her losing weight... The biggest problem is trying to achieve perfect conditions for the eggs.

I wasn't talking about this post specifically. Most people on other posts I have done and other pages I have read have complained about having the snakes back up to proper weight for the next breeding. Also, conditions are really not that very hard to maintain.

I'm tired of everyone saying that maternal incubation doesn't work or is less effective. Most of those people have never even tried it. Everyone that I have talked to that has done maternal incubation has had 100% hatchrate.

Achieving perfect conditions for eggs is an issue for artificial incubation, not maternal. With maternal incubation, the mother does all the brooding and the less the keeper tinkers with things, the better. Just provide temps in the low to mid 80s and make sure the humidity in the enclosure doesn't drop below 70%. That's really all you have to do. The female can take control from there.